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Remember R E A C H |OT2|

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Just spotted this on HBO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcCRnw2xRM0

How to pilot a Seraph, no modding needed. I need to go try this, but doubt I could pull it off! I wonder how people discover this kind of thing, looks amazing.

Bregmann Roche said:
What are you talking about? Haven't you heard: everyone's playing Halo 3 now. Reach is dead. If they kill Halo 3 stat tracking then we'll have to play Reach, and if we have to play Reach then Reticule Bloom will eat our babies and Armor Lock will kill grandma!

Tears Ahoy!!!


Nice hyperbole!

IF 343 decided to pull bnet stats tracking and decided to focus on theyre next game, its likely stats would be lost for Reach aswell. Either way its always nice to have variety and a choice of which game you prefer. Halo 3 isnt going to die out anytime soon, but pulling features that dont need to be pulled isnt a nice way to treat your player base. Sure they dont owe it to the playerbase either, so its not a good sign of things to come.

Eventually 343 are going to have to decide on what to do with all the Halo stuff on Bungie.net :(
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
So near the beginning of a Team Snipers game on Boardwalk I Snipe a guy and his buddy runs right past me and doesn't notice me so I go for the assassination and I get the lunge and... commit suicide. Smooth~

Also the connection was less than stellar even though I picked good connection, later on I got killed cause instead of it just giving me a regular beat down it went into the assassination animation.

Ah well, I still won the game at least. Also, MMarsu your friends list is full.

edit: And I've got a enemy Banshee stuck in a room on Winter Contigency that I can't board, cause it won't let me. Whomp.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Plywood said:
So near the beginning of a Team Snipers game on Boardwalk I Snipe a guy and his buddy runs right past me and doesn't notice me so I go for the assassination and I get the lunge and... commit suicide. Smooth~

:lol :lol Get shit on
 

Louis Wu

Member
Ramirez said:
What campaign level is the best for killing lots of grunts?
A guy on our forum pointed out a method that uses Rally Point Bravo on The Package - if you follow his directions, you end up with 8 recurring Grunts, walking towards you in a line. See how many Killtastrophes you can get! (I kept missing one of the grunts; one of the first four would break ranks and book it, and I'd take just long enough to get to him that I'd be stuck with the Killimanjaro. :( )
 

Willeth

Member
Plywood said:
So near the beginning of a Team Snipers game on Boardwalk I Snipe a guy and his buddy runs right past me and doesn't notice me so I go for the assassination and I get the lunge and... commit suicide. Smooth~

Also the connection was less than stellar even though I picked good connection, later on I got killed cause instead of it just giving me a regular beat down it went into the assassination animation.

Ah well, I still won the game at least. Also, MMarsu your friends list is full.

edit: And I've got a enemy Banshee stuck in a room on Winter Contigency that I can't board, cause it won't let me. Whomp.
Yeah, I had that on Holdout. A Banshee just got stuck at the back of the map boosting into the back of the stairs. I eventually meleed it to death, just do I could have a melee Banshee kill in my stats. :lol
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Tashi0106 said:
:lol :lol Get shit on
Seriously, this game is owning me more so than the other players. First the revenant betrayal thats counted as a suicide now this. It was just *lunge* "Suicide" and I see my dead body on the floor. :lol
Willeth said:
Yeah, I had that on Holdout. A Banshee just got stuck at the back of the map boosting into the back of the stairs. I eventually meleed it to death, just do I could have a melee Banshee kill in my stats. :lol
I think I'm gonna do that.
 

Hey You

Member
bobs99 ... said:
IF 343 decided to pull bnet stats tracking and decided to focus on theyre next game, its likely stats would be lost for Reach aswell. Either way its always nice to have variety and a choice of which game you prefer. Halo 3 isnt going to die out anytime soon, but pulling features that dont need to be pulled isnt a nice way to treat your player base. Sure they dont owe it to the playerbase either, so its not a good sign of things to come.

Eventually 343 are going to have to decide on what to do with all the Halo stuff on Bungie.net :(
I thought it would be up to Bungie to do that... Does that mean Bungie has to remove stats and everything from their site when they release their new game?
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Hey You said:
I thought it would be up to Bungie to do that... Does that mean Bungie has to remove stats and everything from their site when they release their new game?
This is where rumours start. There's nothing to indicate that that is the case.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Louis Wu said:
A guy on our forum pointed out a method that uses Rally Point Bravo on The Package - if you follow his directions, you end up with 8 recurring Grunts, walking towards you in a line. See how many Killtastrophes you can get! (I kept missing one of the grunts; one of the first four would break ranks and book it, and I'd take just long enough to get to him that I'd be stuck with the Killimanjaro. :( )
Sweet, thanks for the tip.
 
Lol@stat talk. Guys, seriously, enjoy the now for Christ's sakes.

Had a good night of MM with Zeouterlimits, my bro and two friends. BTB is definitely one of the better playlists for fun. I found it odd when we voted for none of the above and ALL THREE options they gave us after it were Team Headhunter...

Got myself some assist sprees in MM, wraith gunner for the win.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
bakemono said:
A real life Mongoose!
mongoose.jpg


http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/1...-halo-reach-mongoose-atv-thanks-mountain-dew/


There are actually two. This is the "factory-new" version. Imagined as it would look rolling off a 26th century production line. There's also a battle-damaged version, with plasma burns, damage and dirt.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
OuterWorldVoice said:
There are actually two. This is the "factory-new" version. Imagined as it would look rolling off a 26th century production line. There's also a battle-damaged version, with plasma burns, damage and dirt.

That dirt had better be futuristic 26th century dirt!
 

Falagard

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
It's called astromuck.

The burns better be made with real plasma too.

*edit*

Mongoose looks great. I'd pay some serious coin for one of those, especially since I'm actually going to buy a real quad ATV soon.
 
Dani said:
This is where rumours start. There's nothing to indicate that that is the case.

If Ensemble still existed then it seems likely that Halo Wars would still have stat tracking. So as long as Bungie is safe our stats are safe and as long as we keep buying their games, Bungie will be safe. So buy more Bungie stuff.

In other news: I've decided to take the Tashi challenge and use exclusively Hologram (unless it is not an option). It's been an adjustment but I think I'm making progress.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Falagard said:
The burns better be made with real plasma too.

*edit*

Mongoose looks great. I'd pay some serious coin for one of those, especially since I'm actually going to buy a real quad ATV soon.


This is based on the frame and engine of a fairly high end Quad.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Bregmann Roche said:
If Ensemble still existed then it seems likely that Halo Wars would still have stat tracking. So as long as Bungie is safe our stats are safe and as long as we keep buying their games, Bungie will be safe. So buy more Bungie stuff.

In other news: I've decided to take the Tashi challenge and use exclusively Hologram (unless it is not an option). It's been an adjustment but I think I'm making progress.
Good for you!
 

Arnie

Member
Ok guys, as you know I'm a big Halo fan that feels slightly disappointed with Reach 2 months after launch. I'll post part 1 of my multiplayer analysis to try and explain some of my frustrations, however note that this is only part one so it may feel incomplete. There are many other factors contributing to my overall disappointment which I will write up in due course.

Please note I completely understand my frustrations are highly subjective and may only resonate with a minute fraction of HaloGAF, for those who disagree I completely accept your point of view and do not wish to override it. In no way do I think Reach is a bad game, rather one that didn't meet my high expectations for the franchise in the multiplayer department.


Part 1: Game Mechanics
I Just Can’t Reach
A fervent breakdown of Halo: Reach’s multiplayer shortcomings

Since the release of Halo 3 in 2007, the landscape of the gaming industry has changed.
Millions of people spend billions of dollars on a certain intellectual property which changes so very little between releases. The “Pokemon” of the First Person Shooter, Call of Duty is a cultural phenomenon, doing what Halo: Combat Evolved first did in 2001, but reproducing it yearly. It’s influence is far and wide, and as a piece of popular culture it cannot be ignored.

Bungie have also left Microsoft and since signed for Activision, ironically the publisher of the Call of Duty franchise, although this fact is of no importance, as Halo: Reach was the final game Bungie were contractually obligated to create for Microsoft Game Studios, the first in a post-Modern Warfare world.

As franchises wear on and fatigue sets in, it is up to the developer to preserve the core aspects of the gameplay while injecting enough sparkle to keep things fresh. To dreary eyed newcomers who may have grown tired of Halo’s core mechanics, Halo: Reach certainly sparkles. However, for fans who’ve been along for the ride, investing countless hours into the games systems, like myself, I propose Halo: Reach doesn’t successfully preserve the core gameplay loop that once upon a time captured our attentions.

When Bungie initially sat down to work on Halo: Reach’s design document, it is clear things were going to be different. Halo’s fiction for the franchise’s fourth mainline instalment took a sombre twist, a fallen world full of misery and grit. This presented an opportunity to the team. The designers licked their lips.

Noble Team. A stereotypical squad of Spartan 3 soldiers. Shorter, slower and more susceptible to gravity than their Spartan 2 counterparts whom we have controlled for nine years. This fictional difference made it’s way over to the multiplayer side, and the game began to form.

Past Halo titles relied on movement, in particular jumping to navigate the environment in a way that was enjoyable, challenging and highly beneficial in combat. Movement was as much a key to success as a fine aim and a well arced grenade. So obviously, this change to Reach’s systems, slower movement and a much shorter, grounded jump height were going to dramatically twist the Halo formula.

I previously wrote how Jamie Griesemer found making minor alterations to Halo’s sandbox a challenge, well Reach’s early design phase must have been insurmountable in comparison. So much to change, yet so much to protect. Don’t worry Jamie, up steps Sage Merrill, fresh from the culturally acclaimed multiplayer shooter Shadowrun to step into the shoes of Sandbox designer and forge a direction for Reach that was distinct from anything before it.
It’s hard for me to criticise Sage, because the mechanics and systems he helped implement were not in fact broken, and logically they make sense, however when combined they produce an outcome that isn’t on a par with the franchise’s earlier offerings.

Now for the big one, the Marmite of Halo: Reach’s core mechanics, reticle bloom. One of Sage’s early claims was to define weapon roles more by range, an admirable claim with a messy solution. By removing a fixed fire rate for many weapons and introducing an arbitrary loosening of the players accuracy the faster they fired, the team believed they could force players to use guns in particular roles rather than resorting to the same one for every situation.

Overnight Halo went from being a game which focused on control of the analogue sticks to track your opponents quick movements with your weapon in a way which rewarded practised, reflex inputs to a game which rewarded players for the patient timing of their shots against a slow, lumbering opponent.

To clarify, the separating factor between a skilled opponent in previous Halo games was how accurately and swiftly they could aim through controller inputs, the separating factor in Reach however is how well they can time their shots, a skill which doesn’t require any input whatsoever, rather some slight mental handiwork.

Of course there is slight exaggeration here, players in Reach do still benefit from a solid aim, however this feat seems like a subsidiary of the reticle bloom mechanic, relegated to a lesser role in Reach’s multi-layered combat sandwich. I would argue that it is by far the most important aspect when trying to separate the skilled from the not so skilled.

Some may argue that Reach’s requirement that you think in every combat situation is a bonus, an example of how Reach’s combat steps above it’s predecessors, however I would argue the opposite. As any good Halo players will know, there comes a point when your abilities are honed to devastating effect, when you can take out multiple opponents with quick, precise actions through a muscle memory of sorts, this leaves you to focus on other residing factors such as weapon spawns and flag rushes. You could rely on your skills with a controller, just like a football player can, over time, pass the ball without too much thought surrounding foot placement and how much pace he (or she) wishes to apply. Guitar players, once they become adept enough are able to play songs without fully focusing on the notes they are hitting, relying on muscle memory and practise, past Halo games were like that but Reach never will be.

Despite how well you’re playing in Reach, and I usually finish in the top 2 players in a game, it never feels fluid.

Not only that but the reticle bloom further distils the skill requirement needed in order to excel at Reach. Whilst the bloom does a good job of stopping players from hitting players too far out of their chosen weapons bracket (a feature seemingly useless when the DMR, perhaps the most abundant weapon in matchmaking is able to reach practically all distances with great effect) when the opponent is in a closer than optimum range the lack of a fixed firing rate creates sloppy encounters in which players benefit from aiming in a general direction and spraying out enough ammunition in order to kill their opponent (often effective with the pistol).

Say what you will about previous games close range Battle Rifle duels but they were never sloppy and in fact rather elegant. Players saved their bursts for the fast moving targets that would zip around them with great dexterity as each other attempted to duke out an advantage. The Battle Rifle’s controlled three burst spread also allowed further depth in combat as players had to guide their reticle with the moving target after they had fired in order to successfully land all three bullets, whereas Reach is a simple fire and wait affair. Once again highlighting the removal of controller inputs measuring the fine line of success and failure.

Lastly regarding reticle bloom, the ever-expanding reticle also takes away from the player’s ability to rack up multiple kills against multiple opponents in a straight up gunfight due to the unfair advantage of having to wait for some arbitrary limiter on screen. In previous games a skilled player was able to beat a pair of less skilled ones through precise shooting and strafing, an achievement that will never be felt in Reach due to the reticle bloom.
Now to better highlight my complaints with the game’s mechanics and how, when combined they significantly break Halo’s core gameplay I will post similar situations but played out across different games:

Halo 3: It is Multi Flag on The Pit, the game is 2-2, a pair of opponents come down long hall to try and capture our flag.

I jump and fire, using the geometry as cover as I beat out the first opponent with 4 clinical shots as he was only able to land one on me, it seems my strafing and jumping eluded his gunfire. The second player hits me twice however, so I am close to death. I drop down to the pit, hiding below the ledge where my opponent remains, requiring three direct bursts before I get my respite. He drops down. Close quarters combat now, we dance, I carefully line up my bursts to strike his Blue armour, however he tears my shield away, leaving me susceptible to a well planted headshot. skilfully I manage to strip away his shields and plant the headshot in one accurate burst and I am victorious.

I have a Double Kill medal and I feel a sense of accomplishment as my direct inputs prevailed over the other two players, my ability to aim my shots won, an ability slowly improving over hours of continuous play.

Halo Reach: It is One Flag on Reflection, I am attacking, I get into the top corridor, flag in sight. Two opponents stand between me and a potential flag capture.

We instinctively prime a grenade towards each other, the slow movement speed unable to evade the devastating blast, nor are we able to jump out of it’s fragmented reach. I keep firing at the first opponent, fire, wait, fire wait, I only have to adjust my right analogue stick with the slightest of nudges as the player heavily strafes with little agility. Fire, wait. The opponents shield pops. The Spartan 3 model is short, it’s head bulbous and easy to pick out, in fact my DMR is already in line with it, I dispatch him with little trouble yet little feeling of accomplishment. At this point the second player has capitalised on my lethargic attempt to move out the way of his gunfire, although fortunately I see my grenade actually managed to strip away his shields completely, it must have been a good throw, or not. I finally use a bit of reflex movement, swinging my crosshair round slightly to match up with his oversized head hitbox, this is it; this is the Halo I’ve been waiting for. Fire. The opponent is still moving despite my mind bending accuracy, continuing to plough away at the final remnants of my shield. Fire. My shield pops and my opponent continues his linear approach. Fire, the UNSC’s finest soldier manages to miss a barely moving target from 3 metres away and I see my Spartan fall to the ground.

A chill of disappointment runs through me. I realise that my previous good work dispatching the first enemy prevented me from killing the second. I get the logic, I understand what Sage was trying, but in practice it simply wasn’t fun. What was I meant to do? The Spartan 3’s lack the required agility to evade gunfire yet I was forced to wait for my reticle to retract in order to make a standard shot. Everything about Reach’s mechanics is less exhilarating than previous Halo titles.


This briefly outlines why I believe Reach’s core mechanics simply are not as fun as previous Halo titles and why I think Reach’s multiplayer is a significant step back from previous titles. Perhaps Bungie were influenced by Call of Duty’s successes, or equally likely, perhaps not. Either way Bungie changed Halo’s core mechanics massively for Reach and I definitely applaud that, it is a bold move that perhaps will be under looked by gamers who do not show the care and attention to the series as I myself do.

On the other hand, my admiration for Bungie does not nullify my disappointment for Reach’s core mechanics. Mechanics that I thought produced the best Halo singleplayer campaign since CE, perhaps beating out the fondly remembered debutant, however in a competitive multiplayer environment they simply did not meet my expectations.
 

Willeth

Member
Does anyone here have the Assault/Commando chest and the Mark V helmet (or the funds to buy them)? If so can we borrow you for like five minutes? Just jump into our party, my Gamertag is Willeth.
 

Arnie

Member
enzo_gt said:
I didn't even know One Flag on Reflection existed in Halo Reach MM o_O
Probably doesn't, I just created a fictional example. The map and gametype aren't really central to my point though, just thought it added flavour.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Interesting read. I don't agree completely with you but I'll wait for the other parts until I reply.
 
Tashi0106 said:
Interesting read. I don't agree completely with you but I'll wait for the other parts until I reply.
I agree that a BR duel in Halo 3 had a certain elegance to it, but I think the same way about DMR duels. I mean, in mid-range encounters, you can fire four shots into their shields as fast as you can (they'll all hit), and you just gotta wait a half-second before the reticule settles down and you can pop the head shot.
 

MrBig

Member
Willeth said:
Does anyone here have the Assault/Commando chest and the Mark V helmet (or the funds to buy them)? If so can we borrow you for like five minutes? Just jump into our party, my Gamertag is Willeth.
I might if you still need someone
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Tashi0106 said:
Interesting read. I don't agree completely with you but I'll wait for the other parts until I reply.

Ditto. I will say the first part seems deluded with the tint of a Halo 3 that never existed. Elegant? Seriously? And the exaggerations about how slow, clumsy and lumbering Reach is must be a lark.

I'll save a proper response for when you're done.
 
Arnie said:
Probably doesn't, I just created a fictional example. The map and gametype aren't really central to my point though, just thought it added flavour.
Why? Edit: Why did you need to use a fictional one?
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
1 flag Reflection exists. Flag is bottom back hardwood and capping spot is bottom elevator by the health pack. Pretty sure it's been like that since Halo 2.
 

MrBig

Member
Willeth said:
Maybe soon, but hang on.

EDIT: We were doing this:
http://www.willeth.com/tbk/halothroughtheages.jpg[/img]
I have gold visor and Mk V, and can buy the assault chest.
I'll be in MM, send me an invite. GT is Mr Kwatz
 

Arnie

Member
Dani said:
Ditto. I will say the first part seems deluded with the tint of a Halo 3 that never existed. Elegant? Seriously? And the exaggerations about how slow, clumsy and lumbering Reach is must be a lark.

I'll save a proper response for when you're done.
I do feel the BR battles in 2 and 3 had an elegance yes, it was a mix of quick, agile movement and accurate, precise shooting. I think Reach isn't either of those things, it's not necessarily bad, just not those things that I've come to love about the franchise's multiplayer.

And while I accept some of my vocabulary was hyperbolic (lumbering, heavy etc) this was only used to express how I feel coming from Halo 3. By all accounts Reach's movement is quicker than most games, however I'm comparing Reach to how I felt playing Halo 3.
 

Willeth

Member
I feel like we should have had a filter on, now. But thanks. :)

Credit also to Lookfreegrenade, FyreWulff Rex, and DogEight, who were the Warthog gunner, Banshee pilot, and turret gunner respectively.
 
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