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[Domino Theory]

In a competitive MP game where shooting skill is the only thing that matters, certainly. But in my view, such games grow thin quickly and have little lasting appeal. And Halo, with its vehicle skirmishes and recharging energy shields, isn't that kind of game in the first place.

Directed chance breaks up some of the monotony of combat. That's why I like things like reticle bloom.

Two Face approves.

 

[Gui_PT]

GG to Gui, fun games. You gotta render a clip of those guys on Swordbase. :lol

Yeah gg's, thanks a lot. I don't remember which match it was, but I'll look it up.

 

[Plywood]

Yeah gg's, thanks a lot. I don't remember which match it was, but I'll look it up.

... It was the last one we played.

Anyone up for some team slayer?

Send me an invite or friend request..

MMaRsu NL

Hey MMarsu sorry I couldn't play with you, had to take a break after having played for so long. Longest I've played Reach yet, matter of fact.

 

[Sibylus]

Except when you are looking for the competitive shooter experience, not the "anything can happen" experience.

I bet you if bloom as adjustable MLG might have either tweaked it, or removed it all together, then limited weapons based on that, but I could be way off base.

Ramirez is arguing for competitive play, not random BTB matches. In competitive play maps are typically sterilized, (power weapons are moved on maps for balance, powerups the same, architecture moved to promote "equal standing."

Ram is looking for any "chance" to be removed from the equation, and for what he wants he isn't off base.

Granted, there would be merit in opening up more variables for people to tinker with in customs and the like. But with bloom and other features (armor lock, etc), the commonly perceived intention is to yank 'em out altogether and change the makeup of the game entire.

 

[enzo_gt]

Hey, have they said if they're going to increase the amount of Cr awarded after games and for challenges?

They said they have the power to do so, and will as the game ages and the average player's progression gets further. I already think it's happened though, I seem to be earning over 1000 cR every single match at Colonel, whereas back in my Warrant Officer days, the same games would only earn me 400-600 cR.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Granted, there would be merit in opening up more variables for people to tinker with in customs and the like. But with bloom and other features (armor lock, etc), the commonly perceived intention is to yank 'em out altogether and change the makeup of the game entire.

Which is why I said MLG would probably change what weapons are available if they turned it off.

I feel that if someone is spamming that they shouldn't hit anything, that's how I think it SHOULD work if you have it in at all, but that is of course my own opinion, and I am not a game designer, nor should I be.

 

[Gui_PT]

... It was the last one we played.

I don't remember what happened in the last match. :lol

What was it?

 

[Ramirez]

In a competitive MP game where shooting skill is the only thing that matters, certainly. But in my view, such games grow thin quickly and have little lasting appeal. And Halo, with its vehicle skirmishes and recharging energy shields, isn't that kind of game in the first place.

Directed chance breaks up some of the monotony of combat. That's why I like things like reticle bloom.

Well, I guess we've been playing a different game all these years, because when I was looking for a competitive MP experience, I had always turned to Halo, and it delivered in spades. Some of the stock options weren't suited for competitive play, but the gunplay certainly was. The BR spread was frustrating enough, bloom is like that x100.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Granted, there would be merit in opening up more variables for people to tinker with in customs and the like. But with bloom and other features (armor lock, etc), the commonly perceived intention is to yank 'em out altogether and change the makeup of the game entire.

Yeah, back to Halo.

Now you're getting it.

 

[Sibylus]

Which is why I said MLG would probably change what weapons are available if they turned it off.

I feel that if someone is spamming that they shouldn't hit anything, that's how I think it SHOULD work if you have it in at all, but that is of course my own opinion, and I am not a game designer, nor should I be.

Which is why I said "Granted"

I'm fine with the low probability "magic bullet" headshot that crops up every now and then. It provides a little spike in excitement for when I'm caught with my pants down and desperately trying to stay alive. Most of the time I'll be cut down, but the rare moment where I come back from the brink is a great thing. That usually doesn't happen because of a lucky shot, at least with me, most of the time I consciously slow down the fire rate and try to guarantee the headshot.

Well, I guess we've been playing a different game all these years, because when I was looking for a competitive MP experience, I had always turned to Halo, and it delivered in spades. Some of the stock options weren't suited for competitive play, but the gunplay certainly was. The BR spread was frustrating enough, bloom is like that x100.

It's probably my PC background, but something like Counterstrike is what I would consider to be a "go to" competitive game. Halo is considerably less competitive, which is why I favour it over CS. Team Fortress 2 is even further from the competitive mold, and I love that game too.

Yeah, back to Halo.

Now you're getting it.

Part of the appeal of new games is that they do new things. Halo CE was awesome, but I wouldn't have been happy with sequels that merely tried to parrot what it did.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Might actually get to play some customs tonight

If twitter is to be believed, I may have to wish one Mr Ellis a big happy birthday!

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Might actually get to play some customs tonight

If twitter is to be believed, I may have to wish one Mr Ellis a big happy birthday!

Hoping I can make it today as well. Just finished making home made chips, I'll be on after dinner.

 

[Slightly Live]

HaloGAF Customs start in 20 minutes from now.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Which is why I said "Granted"

I'm fine with the low probability "magic bullet" headshot that crops up every now and then. It provides a little spike in excitement for when I'm caught with my pants down and desperately trying to stay alive. Most of the time I'll be cut down, but the rare moment where I come back from the brink is a great thing. That usually doesn't happen because of a lucky shot, at least with me, most of the time I consciously slow down the fire rate and try to guarantee the headshot.


It's probably my PC background, but something like Counterstrike is what I would consider to be a "go to" competitive game. Halo is considerably less competitive, which is why I favour it over CS. Team Fortress 2 is even further from the competitive mold, and I love that game too.

Part of the appeal of new games is that they do new things. Halo CE was awesome, but I wouldn't have been happy with sequels that merely tried to parrot what it did.

Its all subjective, I would say Halo is JUST as competative as CS, but because the gameplay is different it tests different sets of skills. I say that as a dude who loved pc gaming - I still do but my computer sucks and its cheaper to just buy a Xbox than upgrade, also Halo.

I'm fine with the low probability "magic bullet" headshot that crops up every now and then. It provides a little spike in excitement for when I'm caught with my pants down and desperately trying to stay alive.

I personally think theres a lot more satisfaction to be had landing that perfect 4 shot while no shields against a dude for a multi kill, just the thought of that excites me. Reach on the other hand offers very little of that feeling of satisfaction and more meh I spammed and killed him, or even frustration - meh I timed my shots but it took to long to kill him before he escaped.

 

[MMaRsu]

HaloGAF Customs start in 20 minutes from now.

Can I get in on that action? Please? ^^ I'll be nice

 

[GhaleonEB]

Might not be on tonight. I'm kind of fried right now.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

The element of chance should never be a factor in a competitive MP game, lag already brings enough chance to games, why stack more stuff on top of it?

Even the most competitive games like counter strike have chance involved, being good at fps's isn't about getting lucky kills it is about being able to get kills consistently.

 

[Sibylus]

Its all subjective, I would say Halo is JUST as competative as CS, but because the gameplay is different it tests different sets of skills. I say that as a dude who loved pc gaming - I still do but my computer sucks and its cheaper to just buy a Xbox than upgrade, also Halo.

I personally think theres a lot more satisfaction to be had landing that perfect 4 shot while no shields against a dude for a multi kill, just the thought of that excites me. Reach on the other hand offers very little of that feeling of satisfaction and more meh I spammed and killed him, or even frustration - meh I timed my shots but it took to long to kill him before he escaped.

That's a fair point. To further clarify, Counterstrike is insanely competitive in regards to shooting/accuracy skillsets, and that's what I implicitly referenced in my past post. That focus is why Halo and TF2 are more to my taste, shooting skill isn't the ultimate prerequisite for good play. Use of strategy and terrain appeal to me far more than aptitude for "twitching".

I do know what you mean regarding the frustration at people slipping away, but in my own case it's because I'm pumping out shots too quickly and not keeping my metaphorical cool as the enemy starts scrambling (have no problem with accuracy in the beginning stages of the attack).

 

[Cuban Legend]

THE HELL IS MY MIC NOT WORKING /resets 360...

Edit: That did the trick.

 

[zumphry]

I'm currently making the best forge map of all time, forever*. Probably won't join customs so you guys won't have to deal with my overall suckiness.

*that'll probably suck.

*and isn't crossroads.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Even the most competitive games like counter strike have chance involved, being good at fps's isn't about getting lucky kills it is about being able to get kills consistently.

Yeah thats fair to say, but theres luck like rockets spawning just as you approach them, that kind of 'in the right place at the right time' luck is something that exists in anything. but the luck involved in bloom is so much more intrusive and quite frankly didnt need to be in the game.

Im not someone who likes the clinical MLG gameplay which reduces luck, luck adds fun to the game when its the kind of in the right place at the right time luck, but my issues with bloom arent issues that arise from luck factor. I quite frankly despise bloom because it makes the game less fun for me - having precision weapons that have to be fired slowly or else they become inconsise just isnt fun. Having fun weapons should be the staple of a FPS and as someone who loves precision weapons im finding that those weapons provide no satisfaction. Put it this way, the Halo 3 Pistol was a 5 shot kill, and I found that if I 5 shot a BR user it felt immensly satisfying. Apart from that though that gun had the same characteristics that the Reach weapons do in terms of it being a weak feeling 5 shot slow time to death weapon - and so I never used it unless it was a emergancy.

This overpowers the power weapons, giving the game a bit of a rock paper scissors feel. Maybe im just not very good, but for me using precision weapons other than the Sniper just doesnt work well in Reach.

 

[Sibylus]

having precision weapons that have to be fired slowly or else they become inconsise just isnt fun. Having fun weapons should be the staple of a FPS and as someone who loves precision weapons im finding that those weapons provide no satisfaction.

Man, you would loathe Red Orchestra :lol

(I love it, nothing like cutting someone down with a single shot from your bolt-action rifle)

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Man, you would loathe Red Orchestra :lol

(I love it, nothing like cutting someone down with a single shot from your bolt-action rifle)

I Youtubed it and like I dont think I would loathe it unless its all about firing from the hip. It looks similar to CoD? I can deal with the recoil on CoD because like when your aiming down sights you can compensate for the recoil yourself. With Reach the ONLY way to compensate for bloom is slow down your shots, as a Sonic the Hedghog fan that doesnt sit right. :lol

Spoiler

No but seriously, game mechanics that slow you down arnt my idea of 'fun'. Im sure a better alternative to bloom could have been found.

 

[Sibylus]

I mostly meant the firing rate. There are limited SMGs and Semi-automatic rifles to go around, so most players are stuck with a weapon that gets off a single shot every few seconds (plus it'll sway if you don't brace it when you're in iron sights). Gotta have the patience of a saint to use it :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I mostly meant the firing rate. There are limited SMGs and Semi-automatic rifles to go around, so most players are stuck with a weapon that gets off a single shot every few seconds (plus it'll sway if you don't brace it when you're in iron sights). Gotta have the patience of a saint to use it :lol

To be fair those semi auto's must be powerful? To clarify my issue with the Reach guns is that they take waaay too long to kill, and combat turns pretty messy before anyone dies. I use semi auto's on cod but only because the time to kill is reasonable. I honestly think the Reach weapons feel especially weak especially when you consider the impact of bloom.

Maybe I just suck. But close range spamming takes away from the characteristics of precision weapons that makes me like them in the first place.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I spent so much time in Forge last night and today that I burned myself out on Halo for the day, so I'm sadly not up for customs; heading out with the family to get out of the house for a bit. (That, and some Firefight for the 3k Challenge.)

For the first time I have a good picture of how the new map will work and was able to build most of it out pretty quickly. But I've hit my bane: base design. I can't build a base to save my fucking life. I spent two hours today tinkering and all I got for it was a couple of platforms.

 

[Sibylus]

That would wind me up, but only because that sounds so imbalanced, dont the Semi Auto users just get ripped apart by the SMG guys? If EVERYONE had a slow firing gun it would be ok, but that game sounds like its managed to replicate the whole spamming vs timing aspect of bloom and turned it into a feature of the game. :lol

As far as I know, Red Orchestra doesn't use hitscan for any of its weapons (there's a fairly robust ballistics system, with bullet drop, etc). The SMGs are only effective in close quarters, at long ranges their accuracy and range is abysmal.

The Semi-auto rifles are better at longer ranges and can fire more rounds than the bolt-actions without having to reload, but they have a fair amount of recoil and muzzle climb.

The bolt-action rifles (including the scoped Sniper variant) have the highest range and are the best at fighting at a distance. Both the semi-auto and bolt-action types can also fix bayonets, which can help mitigate the sheer power of the SMG at close quarters (SMGs don't get em at all). The game is pretty well balanced among the weapon classes, and as a result all the bolt-action users can keep up with the guys using the high-end weaponry.

At first glance, it does seem rather unbalanced, what with 80% of the players having to use slow firing weapons. But it works darn well, and the game is quite unlike most other shooters

 

[bobs...onGaf]

As far as I know, Red Orchestra doesn't use hitscan for any of its weapons (there's a fairly robust ballistics system, with bullet drop, etc). The SMGs are only effective in close quarters, at long ranges their accuracy and range is abysmal.

The Semi-auto rifles are better at longer ranges and can fire more rounds than the bolt-actions without having to reload, but they have a fair amount of recoil and muzzle climb.

The bolt-action rifles (including the scoped Sniper variant) have the highest range and are the best at fighting at a distance. Both the semi-auto and bolt-action types can also fix bayonets, which can help mitigate the sheer power of the SMG at close quarters (SMGs don't get em at all). The game is pretty well balanced among the weapon classes, and as a result all the bolt-action users can keep up with the guys using the high-end weaponry.

At first glance, it does seem rather unbalanced, what with 80% of the players having to use slow firing weapons. But it works darn well, and the game is quite unlike most other shooters

Yeah I misread your post at first, I edited that out when I realised but I was too late. I think I would like that game because as long as the Bolt actions are close to a 1 shot kill then it would feel like im being rewarded to using a precision weapon. It seems like you have to hit them or die? Which sounds pretty fun to me, one aspect of that that sounds bad is what happens if you face multiple people? Run for it? :lol

As long as movement in that game isnt sluggish, it could be really good, kill one guy then escape before his pals get you? I would probably burst fire the semi autos in that game just because that would give me a better chance against multiple people.

 

[enzo_gt]

I spent so much time in Forge last night and today that I burned myself out on Halo for the day, so I'm sadly not up for customs; heading out with the family to get out of the house for a bit. (That, and some Firefight for the 3k Challenge.)

For the first time I have a good picture of how the new map will work and was able to build most of it out pretty quickly. But I've hit my bane: base design. I can't build a base to save my fucking life. I spent two hours today tinkering and all I got for it was a couple of platforms.

Aye, me too. I tend to design Asymmetrical or collosseum type maps most, but shit, It's difficult to create a base that isn't too open, or too enclosed, or has decent pathways to enemy bases.

I've hit another Forge block. I usually make maps and right before refining them lose hope and start on another map. Nothing ever gets done because I'm never satisfied with my product.

 

[Slightly Live]

We need more for HaloGAF Customs. Tear yourselves away from BLOPS for a while, yeah?

 

[vhfive]

Aye, me too. I tend to design Asymmetrical or collosseum type maps most, but shit, It's difficult to create a base that isn't too open, or too enclosed, or has decent pathways to enemy bases.

I've hit another Forge block. I usually make maps and right before refining them lose hope and start on another map. Nothing ever gets done because I'm never satisfied with my product.

same.
I have most/all of the geometry down for 1 btb map, 2 invasion maps, and 2 smaller maps but I never finish


EDIT:

We need more for HaloGAF Customs. Tear yourselves away from BLOPS for a while, yeah?

I wish I could but I got to go to work in about 10 min.

Spoiler

10pm-6am

If you have around 8 people can you try out my latest map Reactor

 

[enzo_gt]

Has bungie commented on including Forged Invasion maps into matchmaking? I mean, why not? The community will accept or reject maps at the end of the day. (sidenote: we need to reject cliffhanger and atom asap).

I really want to play some custom Invasion maps, but the preparation and amount of players you need is hard to amass. GAF Customs do those?

I can't make it on tonight, have to get some school shit done tonight and only tonight.

 

[NH Apache]

We need more for HaloGAF Customs. Tear yourselves away from BLOPS for a while, yeah?

I'll be on in about 15. I'm kicking the gf out of the house for a bit. (She is going to a bday party)

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fun customs, sorry I had to go early, gonna watch some TV with my wife.

2 good clips from tonight, the sticky one kind of has me baffled, I can't believe it simply flew under the mongoose then killed my team mate.


No splatter for you!

Sticky Miss

 

[Sibylus]

Yeah I misread your post at first, I edited that out when I realised but I was too late. I think I would like that game because as long as the Bolt actions are close to a 1 shot kill then it would feel like im being rewarded to using a precision weapon. It seems like you have to hit them or die? Which sounds pretty fun to me, one aspect of that that sounds bad is what happens if you face multiple people? Run for it? :lol

As long as movement in that game isnt sluggish, it could be really good, kill one guy then escape before his pals get you? I would probably burst fire the semi autos in that game just because that would give me a better chance against multiple people.

The torso and head are definitely 1-shot kills with the bolt-action, though I think you can survive a few hits to the arms or legs (you'll limp with the latter ). There isn't any radar or identification of enemy soldiers aside from your own visual id'ing, so the element of surprise and stealth is definitely an important part of the game. If you run into multiple people, running or tossing a grenade is usually the smart thing to do (if you're alone).

There's a sprint in the game, so you can get around quickly when you need to (as well as vehicles on the larger maps). The semi-auto rifles don't have a burst fire, they fire single shots (albeit in rapid succession, and you get five shots before you have to swap in a new clip). They're still really handy against multiple people because any shots that land will either kill or cripple. Bolt-action rifle users generally have to travel in groups in order to be effective at storming positions. Throw in some guys with SMGs and semi-auto rifles, and you have a highly effective assault force (the former can be especially invaluable for clearing buildings).

Ah, and I forgot one other class that's important: the machine gunners. Single bursts from them are almost always lethal, and they can pour out a hail of bullets with ease. Definitely the backbone of defensive positions, and handy for offensives as well. They're quite easily the most lethal infantry class in the game, but that's offset by their need to be stationary in order to get good accuracy for their gun. Firing from the hip or while standing and unbraced is generally only done out of desperation or for the purposes of improvised cover fire.

 

[Slightly Live]

Only 4 folks left? :lol

2 Hours - shortest Customs night in a long time.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Only 4 folks left? :lol

2 Hours - shortest Customs night in a long time.

Sorry to leave but was good enough. Quieter than I certainly remember H3 customs (first weekend since Reach came out that I could play).

 

[NH Apache]

Only 4 folks left? :lol

2 Hours - shortest Customs night in a long time.

Shit. Delayed by crazy Nebraska game.

 

[Ramirez]

Only 4 folks left? :lol

2 Hours - shortest Customs night in a long time.

It's too much fun for them to handle!

 

[Ace 8095]

Are customs over?

 

[Tashi]

It's too much fun for them to handle!

Down for some more Arena tonight?

 

[SolidEyeSystem]

Only 4 folks left? :lol

2 Hours - shortest Customs night in a long time.

Yeah

Ghostbusters was still quite fun on powerhouse, nice and quick.

 

[Hey You]

I actually didn't host a custom gamenight for my group tonight, so I would have came but the requirement is a working mic

Has bungie commented on including Forged Invasion maps into matchmaking? I mean, why not? The community will accept or reject maps at the end of the day. (sidenote: we need to reject cliffhanger and atom asap).

Isn't there a Forgetacular category for Invasion?

 

[Barrow Roll]

Let's revive customs! How do I get in on this?

 

[Ramirez]

Down for some more Arena tonight?

Yea I'll prolly be on at some point.

 

[enzo_gt]

Isn't there a Forgetacular category for Invasion?

Oh why yes that is. But I fear that the winner will be the only map added to matchmaking, and we won't see another custom Invasion map for a while.

 

[feel]

Elite Slayer is pretty much one of the most miserable things you could play online. Fuck that shit, just played about 3 games of it in a row and I'm pretty much ready to never touch this fuckin game ever again. raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

easy fix> remove armor lock from it

 

[NH Apache]

Elite Slayer is pretty much one of the most miserable things you could play online. Fuck that shit, just played about 3 games of it in a row and I'm pretty much ready to never touch this fuckin game ever again. raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

easy fix> remove armor lock from it

On that note, I just signed on so I'll wait for a couple o minutes in the lobby if anyone wants to party up.

GT in profile.

Spoiler

Its not that hard to guess

Edit: or customs

 

[Tashi]

By Elite slayer do you mean team stickies?

I noticed that people vote for maps they can exploit and play like pussies on. Oh MLG playlist, where art thou?

 

[feel]

Team Stick-Lock