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[GhaleonEB]

The hill didn't add any balance. In fact it made it unbalanced. Everyone who plays Halo knows that being at a higher point of elevation over everyone else on the map is an advantage both defensively and offensively. I don't see how being on there left you exposed to an attack. In fact it gave one side an advantage over the other. It made the team who controlled the hill have easy shots at people running around and if you tried to attack them good luck. The map as it stands right now is mostly symmetrical so it benefits everyone.

Could not disagree more. It added a critical break in the sight lines between the halves of the map a key point to control. But by virtue of being on the top of a hill where you were exposed to fire from the sides and either side from long range, you had to work to control it. Hill control flips quite regularly. By the same reasoning any map that has a choke point to control is unbalanced. Valhalla also had a near perfect balance between infantry and vehicles and the central ridge was a key reason for it.

At any rate, having a map where the high points are around the edges and the center is a bowl is a recipe for people in the center to get donged on, which is my experience on Hemorrhage so far. Anyone on foot out in the open is a dead man.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

w00t, thank you very much!

In response to Ghaleon, I think Bloodgulch is fine. Just nerf the tank. Alot of people didn't like Valhalla because of how small and concentrated it was. If you controlled the middle hill, the game was practically over. It's advantagepoint was too great to overcome if you were playing competent halo players.

To be honest the Tanks glory days are done, its gone from an unstoppable force to something that seems to get hijacked/ Sniped early on.

I think the real problem with Hemmorage is its sheer size, maybe it daunts people, because a lot of the games I play involve me pushing forward against people who seem happy to sit behind obscure rocks near theyre base. :lol

 

[neoism]

I'm going to bet that we go through 3-4 more threads before everything is said and done.

shhhiet... at least 10

 

[dslgunstar]

The hill didn't add any balance. In fact it made it unbalanced. Everyone who plays Halo knows that being at a higher point of elevation over everyone else on the map is an advantage both defensively and offensively. I don't see how being on there left you exposed to an attack. In fact it gave one side an advantage over the other. It made the team who controlled the hill have easy shots at people running around and if you tried to attack them good luck. The map as it stands right now is mostly symmetrical so it benefits everyone.

If it was just a giant hill in the middle of a flat area, you'd be right. But Valhalla was covered in rocks, rolling hills, crevices and streams. The varying terrain in Valhalla cut down sight-lines across the map. The created three major 'routes' through the map for vehicles and offered players cover on the approach to the hill.

You could cut through the caves, and around the pelican for a covered approach, you could flank around to the area with the bubble-shield and use the elevated section by the turret to attack from the side, or you could take the risk and use the man-cannon for a quick but risky route. In every case and from almost every direction, the hill was exposed, so players could fire upon players in the advantageous position, while using cover on the approach.

The power of the Laser and uneven terrain also kept vehicle spam in check. Teams were much more thoughtful about when and how they used their vehicles.

It would be even better with Armor Abilities, cause you could use cloak to approach, drop a bubble-shield if you were attacked on approach, or jet-pack straight up from the stream directly beneath the hill to the peak.

The sight-lines in Hemorrhage are too long and wide. Snipers and tanks dominate from either side of the map, infantry are too scared to venture more then ten-feet away from the cave route. Every match plays out the same way and it's boring.

 

[Scarecrow]

Yeah I am definitely seeing a lot of GT's pop up that I do not recognize and I am not to sure how I could avoid that... Actually i do, brb.

Edit:
There we go, I added a little code in my profile (not viewable to non-members) that will be required to get on the new GAF tag friends list.

Seems like an elegant enough solution.

I submitted the name to be on the list, but I don't see any way to put in your code to verify I'm legit.

 

[NH Apache]

Devin, I tried to send the friend request through Xbox.com and you can't add a message with the request..

Edit: Same as above

 

[Primethius]

It works perfectly.

Please don't mess with it.

All it takes to keep from getting booted is two things...

1. Don't throw frags at your teammates while they are in a gunfight hoping for an easy kill.

2. Apologize when/if you do.

You know, I pretty much agree but a few tweaks wouldn't hurt the system.

I've only been booted once due to an accidental betrayal. Invasion on Spire, second phase, 5 seconds left on alpha. Playing as the Elites, I spawn, see two Spartans standing in the alpha zone, throw 2 plasma grenades. Killed one spartan and another team member. The match was going so good too. T_T

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Yeah, if you saw the Excel file the lurker interest was huge. Which is neat, but kind of misses the point.

 

[Apath]

Could not disagree more. It added a critical break in the sight lines between the halves of the map a key point to control. But by virtue of being on the top of a hill where you were exposed to fire from the sides and either side from long range, you had to work to control it. Hill control flips quite regularly. By the same reasoning any map that has a choke point to control is unbalanced. Valhalla also had a near perfect balance between infantry and vehicles and the central ridge was a key reason for it.

At any rate, having a map where the high points are around the edges and the center is a bowl is a recipe for people in the center to get donged on, which is my experience on Hemorrhage so far. Anyone on foot out in the open is a dead man.

So don't go running across the middle of the map without either being in a vehicle or having heavy vehicle support.

I'm not saying the map is perfect, but it's just about the only one we have right now that has a heavier focus on vehicles.

 

[Alucrid]

Anyone doing a halo reach mission on legendary for the challenge?

 

[KevinRo]

Could not disagree more. It added a critical break in the sight lines between the halves of the map a key point to control. But by virtue of being on the top of a hill where you were exposed to fire from the sides and either side from long range, you had to work to control it. Hill control flips quite regularly. By the same reasoning any map that has a choke point to control is unbalanced. Valhalla also had a near perfect balance between infantry and vehicles and the central ridge was a key reason for it.

At any rate, having a map where the high points are around the edges and the center is a bowl is a recipe for people in the center to get donged on, which is my experience on Hemorrhage so far. Anyone on foot out in the open is a dead man.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Valhalla was a horrible map where whatever team controlled the middle controlled the game. You could hide bellow the rock up top and snipe/spartan laser any vehicle or person running into the middle of the map. The middle hill was just too advantageous in the fact that it could shoot at anyone near any ravine opening then duck behind top mid for cover. You were only exposed to fire if you were either too stupid to look left or right OR have a retarded team that didn't know how to control the map.

*edit*

To be honest the Tanks glory days are done, its gone from an unstoppable force to something that seems to get hijacked/ Sniped early on.

I think the real problem with Hemmorage is its sheer size, maybe it daunts people, because a lot of the games I play involve me pushing forward against people who seem happy to sit behind obscure rocks near theyre base. :lol

You can turn the tank backwards and not get sniped out. Tank is still too overpowered on that map and in general.

 

[Devin Olsen]

How do you add the code? Through voice?

Ermm... Can't you add a message when you add someone on XBL?

 

[Raide]

Ermm... Can't you add a message when you add someone on XBL?

Does not seem like you can for the initial invite. I tried but you cannot enter the tag and you only have a list of your current friends.

 

[Deadly]

Ermm... Can't you add a message when you add someone on XBL?

Nope, only option is to add a voice message

 

[Raide]

Nope, only option is to add a voice message

Maybe accept people and they have to reply back with the code?

 

[spermatic cord]

jetpacks plus The Cage: what the fuck. the cage is fucking awful. forge is cool and all but when you're relying on that to build maps instead of actually designing maps it's dumb. all these stupid maps look alike and aren't any fun to play.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Valhalla was a horrible map where whatever team controlled the middle controlled the game. You could hide bellow the rock up top and snipe/spartan laser any vehicle or person running into the middle of the map. The middle hill was just too advantageous in the fact that it could shoot at anyone near any ravine opening then duck behind top mid for cover. You were only exposed to fire if you were either too stupid to look left or right OR have a retarded team that didn't know how to control the map.

*edit*




You can turn the tank backwards and not get sniped out. Tank is still too overpowered on that map and in general.

I agree with the Valhalla stuff, taking back top mid control against a good team was pretty much impossible unless you had a good sniper. The team that controls top mid also has full access to vehicles, while the other team cant use theirs out of fear of getting lasered.

Hemmorage/ Blood Gulch does have the problem of the centre being a suicide zone. BUT there is a slightly raised hill to control - this hill was the powerpoint in Halo 1 but in Reach most players seem content to literally camp back at theyre own bases, and this hill doesnt get much use.

 

[rObit]

jetpacks plus The Cage: what the fuck. the cage is fucking awful. forge is cool and all but when you're relying on that to build maps instead of actually designing maps it's dumb. all these stupid maps look alike and aren't any fun to play.

Kind of agree, sadly. I guess the glass half full view is that the maps we have were all we were going to get, but they threw in some forge maps just as a kind of bonus. But I'd almost rather just play the non forge world maps. I love that they redid Blood Gulch, but I'd be much happier if they just did Blood Gulch and Ascension and left the other ones out. The Cage sucks. A lot.

 

[spermatic cord]

Hemmorage/ Blood Gulch does have the problem of the centre being a suicide zone. BUT there is a slightly raised hill to control - this hill was the powerpoint in Halo 1 but in Reach most players seem content to literally camp back at theyre own bases, and this hill doesnt get much use.

yes let me step out of the base for 1 second while turret shells and revnant shots are raining down on my entire team. whoops im dead.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Was discussing this with a GAFer the other night, but my $0.02 on how to fix Hemorrhage. I think Valhalla perfected the box canyon style of map, and in particular fixed issues that Blood Gulch had, so it's a bit jarring to go backward.

Valhalla did two big things to improve the map for infantry over Blood Gulch. The first was to add the central hill, which had a nice self-balancing effect: the high point on the map was critical to control, but by virtue of controlling it you were also relatively exposed to fire from everywhere on the map. The other was to lower the side caves down to the ground so they are not a superior firing point.

On Hemorrhage/Gulch, the side caves are the high point on the map, and the superior firing position. So players - especially snipers - perched along the sides have both a view of the map and the protection of the cliffs. There's no mechanism to self-balance the positions other than to add counter-sniping and other such ordnance escalation.

Were I to take a pass at tweaking the map, I'd add some cover to the center - if not a ridge, then a set of stones ala Hang'em High. Then I'd block off the caves, make the edges vertical, and create a new set of stone caves along the ground, so they are not the superior position on the map to be. A way around, but not a position to dominate the center from.

100% agree. To fix Hemorrhage add some cover and limit the number of vehicles.

 

[feel]

Can someone post what Today's Daily Challenges are?

http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/globalchallenges.aspx

 

[Shake Appeal]

100% agree. To fix Hemorrhage add some cover and limit the number of vehicles.

Already did.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

Urgh.... just signed up for Bungie Pro, pretty much just for videos. Only to find out that videos don't come with the service, I only get "5 minutes" per month and have to buy more!

I suppose it was probably written down somewhere if I had of been smart enough to go looking for restrictions first, but if you're lazy like me and want to make sweet vids, beware they cost extra!

EDIT: I mean making/rendering your own videos.

 

[user_nat]

Just now reading the BWU..

What was wrong with Boardwalk in doubles? Probably my favorite map in the playlist.

 

[dslgunstar]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Valhalla was a horrible map where whatever team controlled the middle controlled the game. You could hide bellow the rock up top and snipe/spartan laser any vehicle or person running into the middle of the map. The middle hill was just too advantageous in the fact that it could shoot at anyone near any ravine opening then duck behind top mid for cover. You were only exposed to fire if you were either too stupid to look left or right OR have a retarded team that didn't know how to control the map.

The difference is that battling over that central hill was actually fun. I've never been in a single match on Valhalla where one team held the hill for the entirety of a match, from beginning to end. Factor in all the different routes around and to the hill (including man cannons for FAST support from your respawning teammates), plus power-drainers, sniper coverfire, etc, controlling and retaking the hill was a slightly different experience each time. Over the three years I played Halo 3, I was encountering new types of flanking maneuvers and coordinated attacks all the time.

By contrast, I've never been in a match on Hemorrhage that didn't play out EXACTLY the same way EVERY TIME.

1) Tank fight. Each team gets in their tank and fires rounds at the other tank. Sometimes one team will also try to steal the other team's tank.

2) One tank gets destroyed. The middle of the map is now off limits for vehicles. The team without the Tank sticks almost exclusively to the caves.

3) Both snipers move to higher ground and begin sniping across. The middle of the map is now off limits for infantry.

4) The game devolves completely into trench warfare, with snipers shooting back and forth across the valley, and DMR battles raging across the warp exits.

5) BORING BORING SHIT.

 

[VGChampion]

Damn, new thread only on the second week? At least pages will be cut down without everyone mentioning the OP. :lol

Going to be nice to finally have some time to play again soon. Been busy moving I've only had a time for a game or two in the last week.

 

[Neuromancer]

jetpacks plus The Cage: what the fuck. the cage is fucking awful. forge is cool and all but when you're relying on that to build maps instead of actually designing maps it's dumb. all these stupid maps look alike and aren't any fun to play.

I agree, I wish they weren't even in the game. Leave Forge World to the amateurs please.

 

[Gui_PT]

A few screenshots:

 

[The Librarian]

I can (and am) hoping for a Valhalla DLC map. I've already got the perfect name picked out for it: Asgard.

Anyway, Halo is perfection on a game of Valhalla (BTB CTF, Neutral, One Flag, or Slayer) with no laser in the middle.

So don't go running across the middle of the map without either being in a vehicle or having heavy vehicle support.

I'm not saying the map is perfect, but it's just about the only one we have right now that has a heavier focus on vehicles.

So go around the problem? Valhalla made much better use of its areas (sides and middle) than Hemorrhage has.

 

[Lkr]

Is the number of players online stat messed up for anyone else in the matchmaking lobby screen?

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

To be honest the Tanks glory days are done, its gone from an unstoppable force to something that seems to get hijacked/ Sniped early on.

I think the real problem with Hemmorage is its sheer size, maybe it daunts people, because a lot of the games I play involve me pushing forward against people who seem happy to sit behind obscure rocks near theyre base. :lol

I totally agree with your thoughts on the tank. It isn't a force to be feared and can be handled with a little team work... or 5 rounds from the sniper. I know Bungie plans to remove it from Hemo, but I realigning they change their minds.

And I've got to agree with Ghal's thoughts on Valhalla. That map was awesome and there was always an easy way to get back into the fight by hopping on the mancannons. I'd kill to fly the Reach Banshee around the map too!

I have searched through the file shares yet, but I'd love to see a perfect remake of Beaver Creek. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[dslgunstar]

I can (and am) hoping for a Valhalla DLC map. I've already got the perfect name picked out for it: Asgard.

Anyway, Halo is perfection on a game of Valhalla (BTB CTF, Neutral, One Flag, or Slayer) with no laser in the middle.

So go around the problem? Valhalla made much better use of its areas (sides and middle) than Hemorrhage has.

Agreed. Except for the Laser part. The infantry wouldn't feel as confident in the middle of the map if the threat of the laser wasn't forcing teams to be more thoughtful about when and how to use their vehicles. You'd just get warthogs dominating the major routes through the map and circling the hill with cannons firing.

If only the Laser came with only three shots....then all would have been perfect.

 

[Deadly]

Is the number of players online stat messed up for anyone else in the matchmaking lobby screen?

I sure hope so :lol

 

[ManCannon]

so how many Lasers should be added to Hemo again? Two or three? Just want to make sure I get this playlist bug logged properly... :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

The difference is that battling over that central hill was actually fun. I've never been in a single match on Valhalla where one team held the hill for the entirety of a match, from beginning to end. Factor in all the different routes around and to the hill (including man cannons for FAST support from your respawning teammates), plus power-drainers, sniper coverfire, etc, controlling and retaking the hill was a slightly different experience each time. Over the three years I played Halo 3, I was encountering new types of flanking maneuvers and coordinated attacks all the time.

By contrast, I've never been in a match on Hemorrhage that didn't play out EXACTLY the same way EVERY TIME.

1) Tank fight. Each team gets in their tank and fires rounds at the other tank. Sometimes one team will also try to steal the other team's tank.

2) One tank gets destroyed. The middle of the map is now off limits for vehicles. The team without the Tank sticks almost exclusively to the caves.

3) Both snipers move to higher ground and begin sniping across. The middle of the map is now off limits for infantry.

4) The game devolves completely into trench warfare, with snipers shooting back and forth across the valley, and DMR battles raging across the warp exits.

5) BORING BORING SHIT.

Yup yup yup yup yup. Though I haven't played more than one game with a tank on Hemorrhage, the 3, 4 and 5 were firmly in place. Had the same experience on Valhalla these past years as well. CTF on Valhalla is basically the quintessential Halo MP to me. I drew a few lessons from it on the map I'm touching up now, which is probably why I got twitchy seeing it besmirched so. :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

yes let me step out of the base for 1 second while turret shells and revnant shots are raining down on my entire team. whoops im dead.

:lol

Fair enough really, I dont find making a push on Hemmorage too hard personally - and generally it seems like im ALWAYS on the team pushing forward while the other team literally huddles around theyre base.

Sure Vehicles might be a reason to hide back, but whats the reason to cower back in Snipes? Ive literally played people who hide so far left or right of theyre base that they cant possible see people unless theyre on top of theyre teams base. :lol

 

[Neuromancer]

Um can't the fact that it's spelled R E A C H in the title make it hard for people to search? GAFs search already has problems. I don't think anybody who missed the switch will find this. :lol

Well the good news is this thread should be on the front page for weeks to come, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[Slightly Live]

so how many Lasers should be added to Hemo again? Two or three? Just want to make sure I get this playlist bug logged properly... :lol

If you're making a Heavies variant similar to Halo 3, add two per side on 30 second respawn timers.

 

[Squall ASF]

so how many Lasers should be added to Hemo again? Two or three? Just want to make sure I get this playlist bug logged properly... :lol

What was that about an infinite ammo laser start? :lol

 

[Falagard]

so how many Lasers should be added to Hemo again? Two or three? Just want to make sure I get this playlist bug logged properly... :lol

How much of a technical hurdle would it be to take a Halo 3 map like Valhalla and "import" it into Halo Reach without actually remaking it? Leave all the geometry and textures alone, recalculate the lighting or do whatever else is necessary to convert the map to be Halo Reach compatible.

Is that even possible?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

so how many Lasers should be added to Hemo again? Two or three? Just want to make sure I get this playlist bug logged properly... :lol

I heard that 4 was the required number for the proper enjoyment of the map.

 

[user_nat]

Is this how people are Lt Colonel already?

(this guy is a Lt Colonel also)


On the laser topic, I honestly can't see how you could have too many. Now that SWAT is being removed they should have room to add team lasers to the playlist also.

 

[Tashi]

Is this how people are Lt Colonel already?

On the laser topic, I honestly can't see how you could have too many. Now that SWAT is being removed they should have room to add team lasers to the playlist also.

What a joke lol

 

[Devin Olsen]

Nope, only option is to add a voice message

People are definitely sending me text messages after the fact... Even before I accept the friend request.

 

[Warm Machine]

How much of a technical hurdle would it be to take a Halo 3 map like Valhalla and "import" it into Halo Reach without actually remaking it? Leave all the geometry and textures alone, recalculate the lighting or do whatever else is necessary to convert the map to be Halo Reach compatible.

Is that even possible?

Yeah that should be completely possible. It is just a 3ds max file or otherwise. Just have to put everything through whatever their "new" pipeline is.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Is this how people are Lt Colonel already?

On the laser topic, I honestly can't see how you could have too many. Now that SWAT is being removed they should have room to add team lasers to the playlist also.

Nah that smells of BS, Reach isnt as vulnerable to hacking as CoD was, so theres no way those sort of exp hacks could work. Or maybe im wrong and people have managed to hack matchmaking? I certainly havent noticed it.

Im like a Major grade 2, but ive played a LOT. If I cheesed Firefight I would probably be a Lt Colenal by now.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Well the good news is this thread should be on the front page for weeks to come, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

And it won't be much longer until we move onto OT 3.

 

[timetokill]

Agreed, Hemorrhage blows, as does Asylum.

I love Boardwalk and Powerhouse the most, methinks.

 

[-PXG-]

Guess I will repost this for the new thread...My Gears of War inspired gametypes and maps.

Gametype:

- GOW_W/S_beta_1.0 (Slayer edit)

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=3489907&player=PXG 360

Maps:

- BW_G_beta_1.0 (Boardwalk edit)

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=3522261&player=PXG 360

- PH_G_beta_1.0 (Powerhouse edit)

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=3486127&player=PXG 360

Download, play and comment please. Thanks. Be sure to play the Slayer variant on either of those maps. Also, this is best played with 6-10 people. So, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5.

 

[Neuromancer]

Too bad Infection and Safe Havens aren't getting their own playlist in this new update.