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[Kurdel]

Yeah, but that's the story the right was pushing.

It's not their fault to be fair and balanced and show two sides of a coin they have to push false narratives and untruths because that's all the other side offers.

The false equivilance must be maintained to keep access and an apearance of neutrality.

Have you ever read the New York Times?

What would give you the impression it has a "fair and balanced" approach like Fox News?

 

[paperboywriter]

It's not that I think he won't survive this it's that's I agree with the sentiment that this will be his birther thing.

It will never go away and will get lots of play in certain circles.

guess so but i thought his intern-blowjob moment was when he was talking to that young lad in the bus but it seems like most have already forgotten about that.

 

[Kraftwerk]

Press conference is soon correct ?

 

[digita1alchemy]

Joined 2012.

0.06 posts per day.

Posts like these are so trite. Address what he actually said if you disagree.

 

[Maxim726X]

No, they are running it. They are just rightfully calling it unverified as of now. That's how you report on these things. And this was going to come out anyway. Too many moving parts trying to get to the bottom of this Russian business.

And now that it's out there. It's never going away and I can imagine McCain and Graham and trying to figure out when to hold hearings on this shit.

This is why I said. Trump and team should have stayed in contact with the ethics committee and why Trump should have released his taxes because we probably wouldn't even be dealing with this right now.

No, they chose not to publish it when they got their hands on it months ago.

Now that it's out, they'll chime in. But they didn't open the floodgates due to lack of concrete information.

 

[gutshot]

Sometimes I suspect that Russia has infiltrated NeoGaf as well... I'm not even joking...

Of course they have. Spreading pro-Russian and anti-West sentiments via online forums and comment threads is a state-sponsored activity over there. It would be silly to think that this forum, one of the biggest on the web, is immune to that.

(Not saying that this particular poster is a Russian sock puppet BTW. Just saying that there are almost certainly some here on GAF.)

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Sometimes I suspect that Russia has infiltrated NeoGaf as well... I'm not even joking...

Considering that GAF showed up near the top of a list of websites with the most relinks to Clinton's website when the election got really hot, I would be surprised if there weren't any.

 

[Croatoan]

Buzzfeed must be Terry Goodkind readers. Wizards First Rule for clicks!

 

[marrec]

Press conference is soon correct ?

11AM, probably a bit late cause Trump is always late.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Ok thanks, I see what you're saying now. Very true. But I would go further and say that there is far less verifiable here than we saw via Wikileaks during the election. Pizzagate and shit like that was and is insane, of course, but a lot of the shit Clinton and Podesta and the DNC took was based on verified information.

Bear in mind the difference in tone of reports from NYT, CNN, NPR, BuzzFeed, MotherJones etc than BreitBart, Occupy Democrats and all those. The former tends to use words like alleged, potential, unverified, etc. The problem is people will take it and run with it (Like that article above) turning it into CONFIRMED because they operate entirely in Facebook. Where those articles just get shared, but not read. They often NEVER provided enough link backs to the reports they're working off.

 

[Hex]

But fake news is totally different from this.

Fake news is something that's is 100% fabricated and distributed with the intention of misleading.

I do not see anywhere in my post that says fake news.
It says unsubstantiated, which it is.
There is no confirmed evidence.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

NY Times would never publish some useless information!

wtf, how is it remotely comparable?

- The Clinton email server scandal was a REAL scandal, whether you personally care about it or not.

- The FBI *actually was* investigating it on the basis of real evidence found on Huma Abedin's laptop.

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign, but everything you posted is all based on real facts. Not outrageous and unsubstantiated innuendo like this Buzzfeed document. Buzzfeed itself isn't even standing by the authenticity of their own document.

 

[D4Danger]

Do you agree with what he said?

that the media were right not to publish information they couldn't verify? of course. The fact none of them did shows how seriously they take that responsibility.

buzzfeed don't care. here's the letter they sent out with the article.

 

[Stinkles]

Do you actually disagree with what s/he said though?

Well sort of. If the media only published fully verified reports then there'd be very little investigative journalism because many claims can't ever be fully verified. The reporting on this isn't claiming it's verified, they're simply reporting that the intelligence community feels it credible. Were out nor for that fact there'd be nothing to report.

If the intelligence community wasn't nodding furiously in the background nobody would touch this with a bargepole.

Ironically the salacious pee stuff actually makes it harder to report on.


But I'm personally not claiming to be objective. I desperately want this to be true. I'm biased as hell.

 

[paperboywriter]

Posts like these are so trite. Address what he actually said if you disagree.

yep, it's a cheap way to discredit a member. posting alot doesnt grand you immunity.

 

[BronsonLee]

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign

Nah there's no debate to be had there b

 

[Lord Frieza]

ok I think we're done, if you don't see what Im saying theres nothing I could do to make you see it. go ahead. MAYBE ITS TRUE!

(ps it is absolutely confirmation bias. you cannot know that Trump always had ties to Russia, only hope or postulate based on what you view and your beliefs. boiling this entire report down to "it turns out trump has some sort of ties to russia" is wholly disingenuous, there are very specific claims and they are absolutely shocking, but ok. )

I know exactly what you're saying, but you continuously have tried to shift the argument into something else, and you haven't been able to, is really all there is to it. No one, including myself, is saying this makes anything 100% true, just that Trump and Russia being linked together would not be shocking at all, so therefore dismissing all of this and comparing it to PizzaGate, based on it being too shocking doesn't work. If you can't see the difference between these two, then yes, you 100% need to be done.

 

[daveo42]

This story is dubious as hell.
http://www.snopes.com/u-s-trump-intelligence-russia/

Snopes has it listed as unverified at the moment, not false or debunked. Slow your roll.

The document is unverified in the public sphere and we have no clue what is included in the two page classified doc that the FBI and CIA released to the President and Trump. What's in that document is what is most like verified while the rest still needs to be fleshed out as accurate or not. As well, we know the sources behind the report are credible. Try not the pan the thing as a whole till details come out on confirmation.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Lol they bring up 4chan and the headers when this was not a report put together by an intelligence agency. And yeah they just say this is unverified, which the report itself as a whole is, but US intelligence has deemed it credible enough to present Information stemming from it to Obama and Trump.

Lol @ snopes.

But how do we know the document released by Buzzfeed is #1: the same document presented internally, and #2: based on truefacts?

 

[Resident_UA]

I do not see anywhere in my post that says fake news.
It says unsubstantiated, which it is.
There is no confirmed evidence.

But nobody is reporting that those things actually happened. People are reporting that document has surfaced. So far it doesn't look like the document itself was fabricated.

This double standard is really pissing me off. Remember EMAILS!!!?

 

[Thaedolus]

wtf, how is it remotely comparable?

- The Clinton email server scandal was a REAL scandal, whether you personally care about it or not.

- The FBI *actually was* investigating it on the basis of real evidence found on Huma Abedin's laptop.

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign, but everything you posted is all based on real facts. Not outrageous and unsubstantiated innuendo like this Buzzfeed document. Buzzfeed itself isn't even standing by the authenticity of their own document.

You're missing the fact that a nothingburger was given almost the entire space above the fold as if it were some kind of bombshell scandal. It wasn't.

 

[cackhyena]

wtf, how is it remotely comparable?

- The Clinton email server scandal was a REAL scandal, whether you personally care about it or not.

- The FBI *actually was* investigating it on the basis of real evidence found on Huma Abedin's laptop.

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign, but everything you posted is all based on real facts. Not outrageous and unsubstantiated innuendo like this Buzzfeed document. Buzzfeed itself isn't even standing by the authenticity of their own document.

Agreed on everything accept you saying Comey's actions are debatable. Naw. No debate.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

People are discussing about how this is fake it will delegitimise the news further with trump's base - how? They're already so far gone that video or photographic or audio evidence of things that trump has said or done are second fiddle to whether trump says it is true or not. We saw this towards the end of the election cycle and during the debates, wherein trump would categorically deny saying things that were easily provable, but doing so would just get your news outlet labelled as "lame stream media" & have zero effect on his supporters.

 

[Boke1879]

If your name weren't highlighted red, you'd be staring down several posters accusing you of spreading FUD and shilling for Trump/Russia. It's ridiculous.

It's also distressing to see how readily and stupidly this wholly unsubstantiated information is being spread. The public faith in media is already very low and the average person lacks the memory to associate the five-second blurb about the following information being unsubstantiated at the top of the segment with the 20 minutes of speculation that follows. They won't remember that blurb: they'll remember the segment and discount the source altogether if holes appear in the story.

Reporting on rumors and innuendo whose substantiating evidence, if it exists at all, cannot or will not be divulged by the source only gives him armor against legitimate criticisms. Any real scandal can be dismissed as "HAH, remember that time when ..."

At this point what does it matter. If you want to believe this. You will. People who don't want to believe it never believed it in the first place. You had 4chan and /pol/ trying to take credit lol.

and if you're smart enough you're waiting for more info. I mean all last year you had people parroting emails and wikileaks even though nothing substantial was in them. People wanted to believe it was a bigger deal than it needed to be because they didn't like Hillary/wanted Trump to win.

We're in a different time right now. "truth" is taken on a different meaning. And this report has done it's job imo. The media will be asking Trump about this very soon.

Hell Rubio just got Trumps SoS pick to admit that "it's fair to assume Putin was personally involved in the election meddling."

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

The report should be called into question because there is no way short of a video of Trump watching prostitutes pee on a bed to verify most of it.

That would confirm the video's existence but little else. The kind of stuff needed to prove this is tax returns and the correspondences with Russia, and you can't even be sure that we can get records of those correspondences.

I'm not really sure you can impeach Trump with a video of him paying hookers to pee on a bed by itself.

 

[Audioboxer]

My feelings exactly: I think Buzzfeed is staking the credibility of their newly anointed political wing on one massive throw.

It could payoff. Drudge was one of the earliest sources to take the Clinton scandals seriously and look how big that site is now.

Months of investigations going on and nothing sticking is worrying though. It's different if you leak this document when it first breaks or when investigations just start. On top of that other more established outlets who had it earlier than Buzzfeed declined to leak it. They referenced allegations sure, but they weren't releasing a PDF of everything.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Snopes has it listed as unverified at the moment, not false or debunked. Slow your roll.

The document is unverified in the public sphere and we have no clue what is included in the two page classified doc that the FBI and CIA released to the President and Trump. What's in that document is what is most like verified while the rest still needs to be fleshed out as accurate or not. As well, we know the sources behind the report are credible. Try not the pan the thing as a whole till details come out on confirmation.

In otherwords, the 100+ posts treating this as fact are the ones who need to slow their roll.

 

[Resident_UA]

that the media were right not to publish information they couldn't verify? of course. The fact none of them did shows how seriously they take that responsibility.

buzzfeed don't care. here's the letter they sent out with the article.

but that's not what happens. suddenly everyone gives a shit about verifying every piece of information after EMAILS ordeal? unless you objected to every article about Clinton's emails I have very hard time believing that this is something that you truly care about...

 

[kaching]

Umm, so are you saying that an MI6 agent leaking that the current USA president elect Trump is a double agent groomed and blackmailed by the russians and getting prostitutes to pee on obamas bed is not that crazy?

Help me understand the craziest element of this: that a totally unscrupulous, unpatriotic businessman who questions our sitting president's birthright and kisses Putin's/Russia's ass at every opportunity could possibly be wooed or coerced by them into doing things against America's own best interest. Or that he, also an avowed sexual pervert, might engage in a lewd sex act the likes of which is tame by comparison to any number of batchelor party stories, and even by the standard of other indecent sexual behavior he's been accused of. Let's not forget the dozen or more women who have accused him of actual sexual assault, whereas the women involved in (maybe) pissing on the bed weren't asked to do anything against their will, as far as we know.

 

[Kilau]

guess so but i thought his intern-blowjob moment was when he was talking to that young lad in the bus but it seems like most have already forgotten about that.

The crazy thing is that it wasn't/isn't forgotten, just that so many people didn't and don't care. That's a fundamental change in how the people have viewed candidates.

 

[digdug2k]

Which is a good rule in all situations, but goes against the trend of wanting everything now, and not accepting "we don't know yet" as an answer.

Meh. The GOP has decimated the Democrats in the last few years by running rumors on the news 24-7. Just yesterday I had to listen to NPR correct a Republican Congressman/Security-"expert" that John Podesta's password was not "password", and he still ran her over repeating the same lie three more times after she corrected him. I don't think "lets be careful we don't accidentally say something we're not 100% sure is completely correct about the billionaire" is really something I care about anymore. Let the rumors swirl!

 

[brau]

Its crazy how donny just blatantly lies and claims he has no relationship with Putin. There are even interviews where he talks about these.

The idea that you can just deny everything and make it a "Fake Media, very unfair" is nuts! I mean, i believe it when he says he doesn't want anything to do with computers. The guy probably is not aware that all of these things he does and says can be looked up.

 

[pestul]

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign, but everything you posted is all based on real facts. Not outrageous and unsubstantiated innuendo like this Buzzfeed document. Buzzfeed itself isn't even standing by the authenticity of their own document.

Not debatable at all. He's the head of a Federal agency. You don't just tweet things out regarding an investigation. Heck, you don't release anything unless damning evidence has been conclusively found.

 

[Hanmik]

The report should be called into question because there is no way short of a video of Trump watching prostitutes pee on a bed to verify most of it.

Even if there is a video.. he will just say something like "This was just part of my celebrity status back then, just look at this photo"

Trump will never own up to anything.. ever..

 

[gutshot]

BuzzFeed: "We have always erred on the side of publishing."

Really? How'd that one work out for Gawker?

 

[capitalCORN]

wtf, how is it remotely comparable?

- The Clinton email server scandal was a REAL scandal, whether you personally care about it or not.

- The FBI *actually was* investigating it on the basis of real evidence found on Huma Abedin's laptop.

It's debatable whether Comey acted improperly by announcing the investigation in the final weeks of the campaign, but everything you posted is all based on real facts. Not outrageous and unsubstantiated innuendo like this Buzzfeed document. Buzzfeed itself isn't even standing by the authenticity of their own document.

Ever heard of a wild goose chase? A red herring/

 

[Boke1879]

Months of investigations going on and nothing sticking is worrying though. It's different if you leak this document when it first breaks or when investigations just start. On top of that other more established outlets who had it earlier than Buzzfeed declined to leak it.

McCain didn't give his report to Comey until the 9th of December. Quite frankly something like this is going to take a while, because you have to coordinate with other intelligence agencies in other countries etc.

It's not like emails where you can look into someone's server and just have that info available to you.

 

[Scrooged]

TBH the more I think about this the more its sounding like conspiracy theory.

It's an Opposition Research report that was paid for. The sources are from Russia. Practically nothing has been verified. People here are saying that there must be some truth to it because the FBI and CIA have mentioned it in an intelligence briefing to the President. But...so? Clinton had an entire investigation about her email server. Does that make all of the allegations against her true?

I think we need to step back and think about this clearly. Because if the allegations are never verified (or worse, proven to be fake), this is going cause a huge blowback and will benefit Trump tremendously.

 

[benicillin]

Months of investigations going on and nothing sticking is worrying though. It's different if you leak this document when it first breaks or when investigations just start. On top of that other more established outlets who had it earlier than Buzzfeed declined to leak it.

Months of investigations that didn't turn up anything until last week when US intelligence deemed it credible enough to include it in a report to the President, which is why CNN was *finally* reporting on it. From the timeline it seems like the FBI didn't even have the full thing until December when McCain gave it to Comey.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Its crazy how donny just blatantly lies and claims he has no relationship with Putin. There are even interviews where he talks about these.

The idea that you can just deny everything and make it a "Fake Media, very unfair" is nuts! I mean, i believe it when he says he doesn't want anything to do with computers. The guy probably is not aware that all of these things he does and says can be looked up.

they can be looked up, but even if you try and use that against him he will just deny and spin. He has created a culture around himself so that the only thing that his followers will believe is things that he tells them. Everything else is "lame stream media".

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This story is dubious as hell.
http://www.snopes.com/u-s-trump-intelligence-russia/

What a bullshit article.
They make up a bogus claim:

CLAIM: American intelligence has confirmed that President-elect Donald Trump was blackmailed by Russian operatives.

Then proceed to argue against it.

Please stop posting this misinformation.

 

[teruterubozu]

What a shitshow, I mean piss...ah, never mind.

 

[daveo42]

Tbh, I couldn't give two shits about Trump's kinks or Russian blackmail. The meat and potatoes here is what are his ties to Russia and how connected are they and in what ways. The piss bits don't matter at all unless you want to prove the entirety of the document is 100% fact. It would be nice to shut down Trump supporters and himself over trying to claim it's all false even if only the pissing bit isn't factual.

 

[Calamari41]

People are discussing about how this is fake it will delegitimise the news further with trump's base - how? They're already so far gone that video or photographic or audio evidence of things that trump has said or done are second fiddle to whether trump says it is true or not. We saw this towards the end of the election cycle and during the debates, wherein trump would categorically deny saying things that were easily provable, but doing so would just get your news outlet labelled as "lame stream media" & have zero effect on his supporters.

It's not that it will delegitimize the news further with his base. It's that it will delegitimize the news with the 20% who are undecided every four years. Having them say "is this like that time the news said Trump was a Russian double agent who had hookers pee on a bed?" is not a good thing for when an actual Trump scandal breaks out again.

I don't think anybody is worried about converting Trump's base. They would still be his base even if these revelations came about via leaked emails of Trump directly talking about them.

 

[D4Danger]

but that's not what happens. suddenly everyone gives a shit about verifying every piece of information after EMAILS ordeal? unless you objected to every article about Clinton's emails I have very hard time believing that this is something that you truly care about...

what are you even on about? I never even said the word emails.

if you've got an axe to grind it's not with me.

 

[Audioboxer]

McCain didn't give his report to Comey until the 9th of December. Quite frankly something like this is going to take a while, because you have to coordinate with other intelligence agencies in other countries etc.

It's not like emails where you can look into someone's server and just have that info available to you.

Months of investigations that didn't turn up anything until last week when US intelligence deemed it credible enough to include it in a report to the President, which is why CNN was *finally* reporting on it. From the timeline it seems like the FBI didn't even have the full thing until December when McCain gave it to Comey.

Fair points. My remarks aren't so much about my opinion on the contents, but more so thoughts about Buzzfeed going for it. It truly is a live and prosper, or most likely end up dead moment. Others chose not to roll that dice earlier, and as I said just referenced that allegations exist.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Agreed on everything accept you saying Comey's actions are debatable. Naw. No debate.

I honestly don't know the prevailing standard behavior in a case like this. But it seems to me that Comey was just in an impossible situation. The Weiner/Abedin material was discovered late. It was absolutely relevant to the Clinton investigation, containing documents which had been missing prior to the case being closed. There was no possibility of not investigating these documents. And once you're investigating them, you have to report it to congress.

If Clinton had won, like virtually everyone assumed, and the FBI announced in February that they had re-opened the case based on documents they had back in October, that would be outrageous too.

It was an ugly situation. I'm open to debate about it, especially from people who have some knowledge about FBI policy.

 

[Kyzer]

I know exactly what you're saying, but you continuously have tried to shift the argument into something else, and you haven't been able to, is really all there is to it. No one, including myself, is saying this makes anything 100% true, just that Trump and Russia being linked together would not be shocking at all, so therefore dismissing all of this and comparing it to PizzaGate, based on it being too shocking doesn't work. If you can't see the difference between these two, then yes, you 100% need to be done.

I compared this to pizzagate because people are in a frenzy over a CRAZY news story with no verification, and demanding action be taken, that Trump be arrested, that they always knew this to be true, that he will continue getting away with it. You are wrong if you are saying no one was saying these things. Reread the thread.

I never dismissed it, the same way you never endorsed it as true.

I didn't shift my argument (when did I do that?), I think you just don't want to acknowledge what Im saying, that you and others are being biased and irrational by being willing to jump to a crazy conclusion, and you are attempting to rationalize it by saying the things you observed about Trump make the report not that crazy, which is untrue. There is nothing you could have observed that would make this report not a total bombshell if proven to be true.

Help me understand the craziest element of this: that a totally unscrupulous, unpatriotic businessman who questions our sitting president's birthright and kisses Putin's/Russia's ass at every opportunity could possibly be wooed or coerced by them into doing things against America's own best interest. Or that he, also an avowed sexual pervert, might engage in a lewd sex act the likes of which is tame by comparison to any number of batchelor party stories, and even by the standard of other indecent sexual behavior he's been accused of. Let's not forget the dozen or more women who have accused him of actual sexual assault, whereas the women involved in (maybe) pissing on the bed weren't asked to do anything against their will, as far as we know.

Ugh, I really don't want to be in the business of defending Trump, but you hating Trump, no matter how valid the reasons, does not make you privy to the idea that Trump was the entire time groomed and blackmailed by Russia, or did any of the scandalous things accused in the report. Even if it turns out to be true, since we don't have access to the objective analysis of Trumps ties to Russia as concluded by the intelligence community, it could never be anything other than confirmation bias for you to be believing this story as it is, unverifiable and without evidence. Right now you have an opinion on Trump and things hes done and said. That doesnt make the report any less crazy and scandalous. You would just happen to be right about your gut feeling about him if it turned out to be true. We don't actually know if Trump has these ties to Russia that so many think are so obvious.

Let me put it this way, if there were some comparable story about Hillary taking money from enemies as donations, as a totally unverifiable and no evidence story, would you be feeling the same way? Would the people who had feelings about Hillary and her ability to gather funds from upper income people, corporations, and even other nations, be being reasonable for saying that story is not surprising and probably true, and that she should be locked up? No. We wouldn't accept that shit. We would be making fun of people believing random stories without verification.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

It's not that it will delegitimize the news further with his base. It's that it will delegitimize the news with the 20% who are undecided every four years. Having them say "is this like that time the news said Trump was a Russian double agent who had hookers pee on a bed?" is not a good thing for when an actual Trump scandal breaks out again.

I don't think anybody is worried about converting Trump's base. They would still be his base even if these revelations came about via leaked emails of Trump directly talking about them.

Why would those same people be able to see through this but be completely unable to see through nothingburger after nothingburger about Clinton?

The "unverified rumours" absolutely worked at taking her down.

 

[e_i]

Trump has ties to Russia. Where's your tax returns, Trump? Russia helped him in the election (our intel communities confirmed this). Trump seems to want to do Russia bidding (easing sanctions, fucking over NATO, putting a Putin ally in Sec of State). Why are Republicans rushing everything through?

The real impact of this report is that Trump is Russia's bitch. They have stuff on him. Russia hacked everybody (again, the intel communities confirmed this), Republicans and Democrats. They wanted Trump in, not Hillary.