Support NeoGAF

[Scopa]

We want to believe that we’re nothing like them, and I don’t think we’re there at this point, but the way you describe the DrClarke situation is eerily similar to ResetEra behaviour. We shouldn’t quantify value based on the level to which we agree—that’s a page right out of their authoritarian playbook.

You continuing to repeat the same accusation does not make it true.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

That person is a complete idiot thinking that creativity is directly linked to gender and skin color.

 

[dream]

Users who return to GAF to baselessly throw around accusations of Nazis around every corner aren't contributing to the community, change my mind.

Well, situations like that bring the rest of us together, which seems like a form of community-building to me.

I’m not saying that DrClarke’s position wasn’t idiotic. But he was being taken down by honest discourse. I’m all for pointing and laughing at people who say stupid shit. I’m just not a fan of making the least charitable reads possible and banishing people based on paranoia and suspicions.

edit: and I think the “it’s a video game forum” thing is a bit of a red herring. 95% of the posts I make here are outside of the gaming section because I rarely give a shit about video games. And I can do that because there’s an OT section here, which encourages non-gaming conversations.

 

[Handel]

You have to do things your spouse may not be comfortable with or you’re sexist. HAVE TO. Appeasing strangers you haven’t met yet to stream with them is priority number 1. Marriage... 2nd.

This gets a 1 month ban for sexism....meanwhile in the thread about men being the victims of rape by deception with women sabotaging condoms/lying about being on birth control, many are victim blaming men without a single warning being handed out. One dude tried to say a man taking a condom off secretly mid-sex is fundamentally different than a woman lying about being on birth control

 

[Rentahamster]

Users who return to GAF to baselessly throw around accusations of Nazis around every corner aren't contributing to the community, change my mind.

Perhaps not, but leaning too hard on the "ban" button instead of the "persuade" button definitely isn't going to change their minds, that's for sure. If one is going to be the shining city on the hill example of free speech, it ought to err in that direction. As in a benefit of the doubt second or third chances err in that direction kind of way.

It's a delicate balance, I know. It's not an easy judgement call.

edit: In other words, how many potentially persuadable people is one willing to permaban with no second chances, and let slip through the cracks in order to ensure "community health"?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

They are so triggered by new star wars lol

jack_package_200
Member
31 minutes ago

The way the movie handles KMT especially after the abuse she took really pisses me off.

The entire movie is JJ throwing a bone to assholes on Reddit and Youtube

 

[Mochilador]

You have to do things your spouse may not be comfortable with or you’re sexist. HAVE TO. Appeasing strangers you haven’t met yet to stream with them is priority number 1. Marriage... 2nd.

Holy shit, I can't believe that. Pure madness.

 

[DragoonKain]

I honestly can't believe that none of them stop and say to themselves that this behavior feels wrong. They think they are on the right side of social justice, but doesn't one of them in a quiet moment just for a second have their conscience tell them that this feels horribly wrong?

They've created such a mass culture of compliance that I think members there who get banned must thing "I must surely be in the wrong here if everyone agrees that what I said is bad, I must be the problem" but in this case, you aren't the problem. If any lurkers from that site are reading this thread, don't change. You aren't the problem, you are in a cult of crazy people.

 

[dream]

There’s no better insulation than self-righteousness.

 

[cormack12]

Hmmm, so like an adult he said he didn't want to put his wife in a position where she could be harassed, and didn't want to demean her by streaming with these attention seeking streaming personalities - like himself. The woke community respond by saying he should do it anyway regardless of if he feels it would make his wife uncomfortable.

These people are literal the kids in the playground who couldn't get dates and invent bitter stories about how they'd be better.

 

[Papa]

agreed. i hate to sound like im just accusing everyone who has a differetn opinion of being a troll but... come onnnn... new account, post history like that, spouting weird shit like he was. it was fucking obvious.

theres another in this thread who im suspecting as well. wont name them but they have low post count and seem to be saying things just to push buttons, but at least they arent being obvious about it so i can respect that game and im not gonna throw the T word at em. but drclark was just too easy to spot

...tranny?

 

[Papa]

This is coming dangerously close to the way we used to shit on juniors which, really, was toxic as fuck and not conducive to growing a community.

If you’re gonna make this comparison at least don’t make it for some random newbie who went straight to “all conservatives are Nazis”. Jesus Christ man, use your brain.

 

[Papa]

Please tell me when I will have enough post to say what I really think.

By the way I would like a "strategy game/wargame" thread, I'll post all the time in this thread.

0 is enough to post what you think, just don’t expect anyone to take you seriously if it’s metacommentary.

 

[Papa]

We want to believe that we’re nothing like them, and I don’t think we’re there at this point, but the way you describe the DrClarke situation is eerily similar to ResetEra behaviour. We shouldn’t quantify value based on the level to which we agree—that’s a page right out of their authoritarian playbook.

 

[BadBurger]

So are they banning people yet for liking Rise of Skywalker? I honestly do not have the energy to browse that site any longer to find out myself.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Perhaps not, but leaning too hard on the "ban" button instead of the "persuade" button definitely isn't going to change their minds, that's for sure. If one is going to be the shining city on the hill example of free speech, it ought to err in that direction. As in a benefit of the doubt second or third chances err in that direction kind of way.

It's a delicate balance, I know. It's not an easy judgement call.

edit: In other words, how many potentially persuadable people is one willing to permaban with no second chances, and let slip through the cracks in order to ensure "community health"?

In what way is it GAF's aim or responsibility to "change minds" on political topics? In what way is it GAF's aim to rescue the potentially-persuadable? I'm willing to be convinced, but I'm wondering if there's any depth to these platitudes or if we are playing the same ol' devil's advocate for forum trolls.

I view it as a basic internet "you must be this mature to ride" measuring stick. If you show up to a videogame forum to argue about politics and jab fingers at the users, accusing them of being alt-right (or whatever), then you snuck on a ride that you shouldn't be riding. Go back to the kids' section and take your fanatical rage out on the whack-a-mole machine.

Granted, as dream mentioned, this forum has a lot more discussion than just videogames. But in my opinion, that makes it all the more suspicious when users make a beeline to the Politics board and begin wagging fingers at users. It's not like spammers and trolls have been doing exactly that since the 2017 split

 

[Rentahamster]

In what way is it GAF's aim or responsibility to "change minds" on political topics?

It isn't. Just my personal philosophy. Is that not the ultimate goal of reasoned debate?

Go back to the kids' section and take your fanatical rage out on the whack-a-mole machine.

Not the best way to change hearts and minds, IMO.

 

[Scopa]

It isn't. Just my personal philosophy. Is that not the ultimate goal of reasoned debate?

Have you never heard the old adage, “a leopard can’t change it’s spots”?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It isn't. Just my personal philosophy. Is that not the ultimate goal of reasoned debate?

Not the best way to change hearts and minds, IMO.

I am not under the delusion that everyone who participates is here to engage in reasoned debate. You are sacrificing the real for the sake of an unattainable ideal. "Reasoned debate" has a long, well-documented history of procedures and concepts to keep the debate on track. It is why we have a list of "logical fallacies" mostly courtesy the greeks. So if you want to do things for the sake of reasoned debate, surely you would expect participants to somewhat adhere to those loose meta-rules. Nothing unreasonable about that.

If a fanatic bursts into the figurative debate hall with a megaphone in hand and demands the two speakers prove they're not alt-right scum, would you be in the audience saying "let him speak! let him speak!"?

 

[Rentahamster]

Ultimately, as with most things with life, it's a cost benefit analysis.

How many innocent people are we willing to wrongly execute in order to maintain the option capital punishment and preserve the rule of law?

How expensive does a safety enhancing mechanical part have to be before it's unfeasible to include in a consumer product?

How restrictive do you need to be on the freedoms of everyday Americans in order to prevent another 9/11 from happening?

How many second chances do you give perceived trolls in order to ensure that they don't have the potential to be nudged in a more positive direction?

The current system as devised by the staff seems to work well enough, but that doesn't mean it's not going to be subject to PR blowback from every now and then.

 

[Rentahamster]

Have you never heard the old adage, “a leopard can’t change it’s spots”?

Ever shaved your leopard before?

It is why we have a list of "logical fallacies" mostly courtesy the greeks. So if you want to do things for the sake of reasoned debate, surely you would expect participants to somewhat adhere to those loose meta-rules.

And if this person is committing these fallacies because they are too naive to know how reasoned debate works? If you are unwilling to educate belligerent noobs then so be it, and of course not 100% will see it your way, so I understand if you don't want to expend the effort if you think the payoff isn't worth it.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

And if this person is committing these fallacies because they are too naive to know how reasoned debate works?

GAF's track record in that regard speaks for itself (or writes for itself ?). You and I have both gone at lengthy arguments that did not result in a mutual understanding and yet... here we are. Users who engage in the conversation and are willing to learn do just fine here. Naivety is no excuse. Or do you think if someone showed up posting swastikas and white supremacist screed that we should give them the same benefit of the doubt? "Oh, they're probably just too naive to know how reasoned debate works. They think racial supremacy is the way forward, when it's actually the way backward. Let's patiently debate them".

This is, of course, the generous take on it. Truthfully, GAF has no obligation to host naive posters who can't debate properly. It's not like GAF is forcing them into these conversations. They are charging in voluntarily, rhetoric blazing. That's why I made the "must be this tall to ride" comment. Nothing is stifling them except the 50 posts/1 month minimum rule. Once that height requirement is met, anyone can ride on the politics board and state their opinion. They'll catch a lot of blowback if their argument sucks or if they're being vitriolic, and they'll catch a lot of lengthy replies if they wrote something thought-provoking or worthy of discussion.

You're trying to make it sound like we're turning away hungry orphans who just want to eat a meal and learn from GAF's wisdom.

If you are unwilling to educate belligerent noobs then so be it, and of course not 100% will see it your way, so I understand if you don't want to expend the effort if you think the payoff isn't worth it.

I am not unwilling to educate belligerent noobs, you are pulling the topic away to something unrelated. As I stated above, there is a threshhold for everything, and if someone specifically comes to GAF to call us alt-righters or to claim such-and-such political bloc is full of nazis, my expectations are going to be very low for that poster.

I think my own posting history as a long-winded and argumentative (or patient and longsuffering, however one chooses to spin it) debate participant on all three GAF boards shows where I stand: I spend time on GAF because I think the payoff is worth it, and I clearly "expend the effort" based on those convictions. Of course, just because I participate in the community a lot does not mean I have any more right to set the tone than a brand-new users. When a brand-new user sets the tone as "lol Nazis around every corner Orange Man Bad" then I will respond to that tone accordingly: by not taking it seriously. At that point, it's not just the content of the user's post that concerns me. It is the implications about their capacity to engage in a future conversation with me like a reasoned debater (a goal you mentioned earlier).

To draw a comparison, I don't give money to every person who holds up a sign. I don't stop and engage in debate with every fanatic on the streetcorner holding a religious or political signpost. And that shouldn't imply anything about me other than I didn't want to engage with those people. Internet socialization operates in much the same way.

 

[eot]

They are charging in voluntarily, rhetoric blazing. That's why I made the "must be this tall to ride" comment. Nothing is stifling them except the 50 posts/1 month minimum rule.

Is that some hidden junior member state now?

 

[EviLore]

Is that some hidden junior member state now?

See the sticky in the politics section.

 

[eot]

See the sticky in the politics section.

Thanks, I was looking for a sticky but didn't check there

 

[jason10mm]

If Drclarke confined his inflammatory rhetoric to this thread (or similar ones), then the ignore feature would quickly isolate him from the handful of folks who participate in such threads. That's different, IMHO, from hopping into unrelated threads and derailing them in pure troll fashion. I'd like to think that merely saying "conservatives are Nazis" isn't bannable as it is just meaningless words and conservatives can just ignore the poster as our servants pour us non-free trade coffee while we smoke embargoed Cuban cigars and play fortnight on $5000 dollar gaming rigs paid for by our trust funds

 

[Musky_Cheese]

It's one thing to feel and speak on the Republican Party's ideas, Republican members of Congress, or Trump. But saying that if you aren't with me you are Hitler isn't exactly discussion. Its statement. I doubt he/she/they/them were here for anything else.

Add to that Clark would only respond to some people, and within that only respond to portions of their response... Clark was here to troll.

Also I didn't report Clark so I can't say I cared he/she/they/them were banned. Certainly ain't going to bat for someone only here to troll in an unfunny way.

 

[mortal]

Proof that they really would ban MalcomX if he was alive to post on Ree.

These hypocrites will quote MLK and in the same breath spew racism and judge people entirely on their iImmutable characteristics instead of their character and actions..

 

[Sygma]

If you're going to account suicide, you should post the homophobic case against the owner of the forum that the majority of the Era userbase still don't know about:

Parent Advocates - ParentAdvocates.org

archived 11 Jan 2019 11:45:39 UTC

archive.li

So what ever happened to the transparency that era was founded upon?

Well it could be the same mod banning you here over and over because you don't know which mod is doing the modding. They're hardly going to write "vendetta" as the ban reason.

www.resetera.com

Also peak ERA today :

I hate nerds. I hate nerd culture.

I hate everything about it these days. I hate the harassment towards creators, actors and actresses, staff, etc. I hate the death threats towards critics. I hate the endless conspiracy theories that "Someone paid off hundreds of people to say this movie sucks" instead of realizing when a movie...

www.resetera.com

 

[Crash Station]

I gotta say, the sincere reaction to DJ Khaled's posts despite there being clear cut evidence of them being a troll is kind of bizarre to me. FeistyBoots lays it on a little thick, but he has some degree of plausible deniability as there haven't been any contradictions in his posts yet, or at least not obvious ones. DJ Khaled has changed their story MULTIPLE times; about their living situation, their gender identity, their relationship situation, etc.

For people that are constantly itching at the finger to jump on egregious post history, I wonder if they have blinders on with that poster or they're legit afraid to say anything after Transgate.

 

[Jooxed]

Djkhaled and Hobbes are tied for my Resetera Person of the Year

 

[Crash Station]

So what ever happened to the transparency that era was founded upon?

Well it could be the same mod banning you here over and over because you don't know which mod is doing the modding. They're hardly going to write "vendetta" as the ban reason.

www.resetera.com

The article itself was never posted. Queen of Hunting said to google it, but she never threw out the article.

Cerium posted articles relating to the man in question after he was arrested, but he never actually posted the initial complaint and court case article, which the would-be gay cannibal won against Cerium on.

That a court case happened at all was never even brought up by Cerium despite there being clear evidence of it happening.

 

[Sygma]

That a court case happened at all was never even brought up by Cerium despite there being clear evidence of it happening.

Oh, right on !

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Djkhaled and Hobbes are tied for my Resetera Person of the Year

Don't forget any threads by KSweeley. Always looking for clicks as the guy even admitted one time at being unemployed and living off monthly assistance.

 

[JordanN]

By the way, DrClarke never got back to my post which made him look more sketchy.

So according to your own logic, it's much better to live next to "Nazis" (who are known for eradicating people) than it is for these people to stay behind in their own lands where they already control all levels of governments and thus can't complain about "systematic racism" holding them down?

I also like that you threw in "engineering". How come Republicans/Democrats never used this technology on much bigger and stronger countries like China or Russia and cause them to collapse? Why would they focus their energy on countries like Mexico or Somalia that, to my knowledge, never really acted as big players on the world stage?

This answer may shock you but if someone told me I must flee my home and go live in a far away nation that operates death camps, I wouldn't pack my suitcase and start travelling there unless you know? It was all bullshit.

63 million people are Nazis but at the same time, 10 million illegal immigrants are also fine living next to them with the goal of racial extermination being on the table.

Every terrible thing you’ve attributed to Nazism has been practiced, in some form or fashion, by the Republican party.

I'm sorry, I find these delusions to be asinine of the highest order. Are we suppose to believe that Trump is smarter than Hitler, or dumber than him, if the SJW's refuse to explain when exactly is a mass genocide suppose to occur while Trump is having to fight for an election next year.

 

[Jooxed]

Don't forget any threads by KSweeley. Always looking for clicks as the guy even admitted one time at being unemployed and living off monthly assistance.

I try not too click on that guys posts because I will be forced too look at a slightly larger picture of that thing that he is attempting to call facial hair.

 

[JordanN]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I now present to you the source of all of DrClarkes bullshit

China orders Christians to rewrite the Bible for the era of President Xi

We're living in a world where fascists have gained power in near every major nation of the world. Infuriating, depressing, disgusting. We sorely need to topple Trump and restore some hope.

www.resetera.com

These people are legitimately brain damaged that they believe every [major] country is run by Nazis.

Where have I been the last decade to miss this event?

And with the exception of China, nearly every country on that list still holds elections. But SJW's cannot make up their minds. Is Democracy now Nazism?
Is the only "progressive" thing left at this point is to get rid of them in favor of a solid One Party Rule?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Where have I been the last decade to miss this event?

Not locked in your room plugged into a forum cult.

 

[JordanN]

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| Time Is a Flat Circle

Poilievre is horrible. Dude is another Harper clone, surprised this is the first time he's running for leadership. His riding is in Ottawa and the demographics there are changing very fast. He won the 2015 election narrowly and last election by a slightly wider amount, but still within striking...

www.resetera.com

Why is this considered acceptable? SJW's openly brag about changing the cultural makeup of a country but Right-Wing/Conservatives are never allowed to talk about this without being called "Nazi".

The data exists. Voting patterns are heavily influenced by different ethnic groups, but all immigration into my country and others show an extreme left-wing bias.

 

[Mildudon]

I came across this post in the I hate nerds/nerd culture thread. I found it kind of ironic to say the least with all the bans.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Out of nowhere........white people!!!!

I hate nerds. I hate nerd culture.

I hate everything about it these days. I hate the harassment towards creators, actors and actresses, staff, etc. I hate the death threats towards critics. I hate the endless conspiracy theories that "Someone paid off hundreds of people to say this movie sucks" instead of realizing when a movie...

www.resetera.com

bunch of fucking racist retards!!

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I came across this post in the I hate nerds/nerd culture thread. I found it kind of ironic to say the least with all the bans.

Forum is a bunch of weirdo self flagellaters.

Nerds that won’t shut up about how bad nerds are. Game forum that hates gamers. Star Wars forum that hates Star Wars.

Just a lot of hate and elitism. It’s sad!

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Forum is a bunch of weirdo self flagellaters.

Nerds that won’t shut up about how bad nerds are. Game forum that hates gamers. Star Wars forum that hates Star Wars.

Just a lot of hate and elitism. It’s sad!

I do feel like this sentiment can be said about any online gathering place in [current year]. Some places are obviously worse than others, but as a whole we're just shitting people online, and it sucks.

 

[Scopa]

I do feel like this sentiment can be said about any online gathering place in [current year]. Some places are obviously worse than others, but as a whole we're just shitting people online, and it sucks.

Some of us play video games.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Some of us play video games.

Like I said, some places are worse than others, but you'll find people who play games who are still mad/upset about a game not on their system, or someone enjoying a game they think is trash.

That being said, it is nice to have places like REE that give you a solid measuring stick for online wackadoodles.

 

[Mochilador]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I now present to you the source of all of DrClarkes bullshit

China orders Christians to rewrite the Bible for the era of President Xi

We're living in a world where fascists have gained power in near every major nation of the world. Infuriating, depressing, disgusting. We sorely need to topple Trump and restore some hope.

www.resetera.com

These people are legitimately brain damaged that they believe every [major] country is run by Nazis.

Where have I been the last decade to miss this event?

And with the exception of China, nearly every country on that list still holds elections. But SJW's cannot make up their minds. Is Democracy now Nazism?
Is the only "progressive" thing left at this point is to get rid of them in favor of a solid One Party Rule?

That take on fascism is so fucking weird to me. "Everything in the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside the state".
The "core" of fascism implies a big focus on state but some of these presidents want it to be as little as possible.
If they are indeed fascists then they really suck at their job.

 

[captainraincoat]

The Eddie Murphy thread is surprising....you have some people wanting him to go back to standup....I remember getting strung up for liking his standup

Eddie Murphy’s Return Delivers Big Ratings For ‘Saturday Night Live’( Highest rated comedy program since Big Bang Theory ended)

https://deadline.com/2019/12/eddie-murphy-saturday-night-live-ratings-big-season-high-1202815896/

www.resetera.com

 

[BadBurger]

The Eddie Murphy thread is surprising....you have some people wanting him to go back to standup....I remember getting strung up for liking his standup

Eddie Murphy’s Return Delivers Big Ratings For ‘Saturday Night Live’( Highest rated comedy program since Big Bang Theory ended)

https://deadline.com/2019/12/eddie-murphy-saturday-night-live-ratings-big-season-high-1202815896/

www.resetera.com

That old Murphy standup is really, really homophobic.

 

[captainraincoat]

That old Murphy standup is really, really homophobic.

I think the mods are asleep or most of them have not seen his standup as it revolves around

1. Gay people
2. Prostitutes and slutty women
3. Bill Cosby
4. Mr T
5. Michael Jackson
6. Racist Jokes about white people
7. Racist Jokes about black people
8. More Gay jokes

One of the snl segments is pretty much the same shit from the 80s...he makes a joke about black people bringing down housing values...talks about his black neighbor's having a crack house ...then steals a tv and runs away from his supposed son.



If i laugh at that being a white person am I a racist?

 

[BadBurger]

I think the mods are asleep or most of them have not seen his standup as it revolves around

1. Gay people
2. Prostitutes and slutty women
3. Bill Cosby
4. Mr T
5. Michael Jackson
6. Racist Jokes about white people
7. Racist Jokes about black people
8. More Gay jokes

One of the snl segments is pretty much the same shit from the 80s...he makes a joke about black people bringing down housing values...talks about his black neighbor's having a crack house ...then steals a tv and runs away from his supposed son.



If i laugh at that being a white person am I a racist?

No, it's just finding comedy funny. I mean it's Eddie Murphy, SNL knew what they were getting into.