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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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T

televator

Member
SheepyGuy said:
I've been doing some more reading about Wii framebuffers. I was curious what's different in how the GC operates since they're so similar. Sounds like copy to XFB doesn't need to stretch out the full resolution, but as far as I can tell Wii titles must generally do that. This would also explain why GC titles on Wii don't look nearly as soft as many Wii titles.

If the GCVideo is outputting from the XFB then you'd probably still have the scaling issues present on Wii, and wouldn't bypass it.
Click to expand...

I like se myself in fallout 4 for my weekend and I come back to see this... God damn it, Nintendo. I'm convinced they hate image quality.
Madao said:
anyone knows if it's possible to change the color space the OSSC outputs at? my setup has everything set to limited but the OSSC seems to do full only and that makes it look too dark.
Click to expand...

cyborgnumberblue said:
Only color space options are for the YPbPr color input space for rec. 601 or 709.
Click to expand...

Sounds like something is being mishandled in the CSC. I feared it might not get the gamma scales right.
 
M

Madao

Member
the good thing is that the device is still very new so this could be one of these things that gets fixed when they put out a new firmware
as long as enough people ask for this option...
.

also, this is Nintendo's fault because the reason i have everything set to Limited is the Wii U. i wonder if homebrew could do something about that.
 
C

cyborgnumberblue

Member
Mega said:
By the way, I hope you play more than just Rondo on your new Duo. It has a lot of good games and it would be silly to neglect them for one game!
Click to expand...

I definitely would, my main desire is Rondo, though.

Any recommendations? I know there are some STGs in there worth checking out.
 
G

Galdelico

Member
Madao said:
the good thing is that the device is still very new so this could be one of these things that gets fixed when they put out a new firmware
as long as enough people ask for this option...
.
Click to expand...

You can always drop a request on the official forums at VGP.

Also, this thing I mentioned earlier:

Galdelico said:
I just found out - thanks to a poster at SHMUPS forums - that 'Save settings' doesn't look like it's saving anything in Advanced timing tweaker. I was under the impression that there was something odd going on, since my Mega Drive games required to be centered every time I turned the OSSC off and on again, at least now I understand why.
Click to expand...

has been confirmed to be normal, as those options were intentionally left aside, in order to be made workable in the new, major 'Profiles' feature that is planned to come with the next firmware upgrade.
 
M

Mega

Banned
cyborgnumberblue said:
I definitely would, my main desire is Rondo, though.

Any recommendations? I know there are some STGs in there worth checking out.
Click to expand...

Some is an understatement! Soldier Blade, Super Star Soldier, Final Soldier, Air Zonk, Star Parodier, Parodius Da, Gradius, Dragon Spirit, Cotton, Magical Chase, Spriggan, Coryoon, R-Type, L-Dis, Blazing Lasers, Nexzr, Detana Twinbee, Atomic Robokid, Monster Lair.

Games in other genres to play:
Bomberman 94 (5 players!), Devil's Crush and Alien Crush, Dungeon Explorer I and II, Bonk series, Street Fighter II, Ninja Spirit, Cadash, Ys I and II, Rainbow Islands, Splatterhouse, Legendary Axe, Gekisha Boy, Dragon's Curse, Neutopia, Kiki KaiKai, Jackie Chan, Legend of Hero Tonma.

And dozens of others I haven't yet played but that come recommended like Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder and the Arcade Card Duo/Neo Geo ports that are better than any Gen/SNES versions.
 
B

Brhoom

Banned
I recall seeing a video of some early Playstation models that did not have correct "filtering?" The video was with Tomb Rider, and the shadows on the snow did not blend well or something.

I want to buy an early Playstation, but I want to know if the one am buying is affected or not.

Please help me find the video.
 
B

Brhoom

Banned
I ran into this weird issue with my Slim PS2, Silent Hill only fills half the screen on my CRT, I tried another PS1 game and it was fine.

Silent Hill just doesn't want to run for me...
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
biWqYEB.png

https://twitter.com/MicomsoftX/status/804488224894636032

Not announcing anything new yet, but sounds like they're working on a replacement, but it'll be a while before it's ready.
 
M

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Shin Johnpv said:
No problem, I hope you can find someone who can help you out over there. I did indeed! Is the toomanyshaders chat still going? I stopped going by cause they blocked irc stuff at work.
Click to expand...

A bit late on this, but honestly i have no idea. I stopped going as well since it just took too much time. Was kinda fun when it was going though.
 
C

CrashPrime

Member
Well after a long search for a Sony crt I did something I wasn't planning on doing but there are no good sizes available in my area. 250lbs of KV36FS120. I really hope the geometry isn't totally f'd because it is kinda cool how big it is.

Scanline porn in a couple days. I can not wait. This means I really need to get the Sega Saturn I've been dreaming of.

I gotta find a dolly to move this thing.

Lol at this beast. (Not my pic)

vOlSLY7.jpg
 
P

Peltz

Member
SheepyGuy said:
I posted this in the wrong thread but Framemeister production is ending with a final shipment happening in February:
Click to expand...
End of an era. I should sell mine. I've only used it like 10 times in the past 2 years.

It's just not my cup o tea. Any gaffers looking to grab one on the cheap can send me a pm. It's practically new and I'll probably let it go for the right amount.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Missed out on a 20m4u that was going for $75 on local craigslist. It was relisted for $500 right away by the person that bought it, but at least they were nice enough to chat and not just tell me to fuck off when I offered $100. Even had the manual with it, I'm so bummed out.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
theSlacker said:
Missed out on a 20m4u that was going for $75 on local craigslist. It was relisted for $500 right away by the person that bought it, but at least they were nice enough to chat and not just tell me to fuck off when I offered $100. Even had the manual with it, I'm so bummed out.
Click to expand...
Sorry man, keep looking and you'll get something eventually.

What are prices like for pvms nowadays? Looking on ebay I see so many more buy it now options at stupid prices.. I'm guessing it's gone up.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
I've never spent more that $60 USD on a PVM, but nowadays people are getting wise to the renewed interest in them and subsequently gouging the prices.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
I think my reservation is mostly due to these monitors typically having many ten's of thousands of hours on them. I mean a pvm with 100 hours is probably worth 500 or more, but when they're pushing in to estimated longevity territory soon, it just seems like a shaky investment.

Especially given you can find nice trinitrons and less common brand monitors for a hell of a lot less.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
NormalFish said:
I think my reservation is mostly due to these monitors typically having many ten's of thousands of hours on them. I mean a pvm with 100 hours is probably worth 500 or more, but when they're pushing in to estimated longevity territory soon, it just seems like a shaky investment.

Especially given you can find nice trinitrons and less common brand monitors for a hell of a lot less.
Click to expand...

RetroRGB did an interview with a former Sony PVM/BVM repair technician recently and he said that it was very common for monitors pushing past 30k hours to get the tube replaced. If you have a monitor with a lot of hours but the picture still looks good it's worth getting.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
SheepyGuy said:
RetroRGB did an interview with a former Sony PVM/BVM repair technician recently and he said that it was very common for monitors pushing past 30k hours to get the tube replaced. If you have a monitor with a lot of hours but the picture still looks good it's worth getting.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but I still don't know if I'd trust it. If I understood CRTs well enough to repair one without killing myself maybe.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
NormalFish said:
Fair enough, but I still don't know if I'd trust it. If I understood CRTs well enough to repair one without killing myself maybe.
Click to expand...

Yeah I mean there are all kinds of things I really don't trust about CRTs personally but for those that want to go there it doesn't seem like you should be scared off by a high number of hours on the unit.
 
P

Peltz

Member
NormalFish said:
I think my reservation is mostly due to these monitors typically having many ten's of thousands of hours on them. I mean a pvm with 100 hours is probably worth 500 or more, but when they're pushing in to estimated longevity territory soon, it just seems like a shaky investment.

Especially given you can find nice trinitrons and less common brand monitors for a hell of a lot less.
Click to expand...
If you expect it to last forever, then yea, I'm sure you'll be disappointed. But I expect my sets to last another decade or (maybe) two.

It's well worth a hundred dollar gamble.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Peltz said:
If you expect it to last forever, then yea, I'm sure you'll be disappointed. But I expect my sets to last another decade or (maybe) two.

It's well worth a hundred dollar gamble.
Click to expand...
Is expecting it toast another decade or two reasonable though? Without a tube replacement, or other repair options, I feel like these tubes just haven't been out long enough to say whether or not your expectations are founded.
 
M

Mega

Banned
Chinner said:
Sorry man, keep looking and you'll get something eventually.

What are prices like for pvms nowadays? Looking on ebay I see so many more buy it now options at stupid prices.. I'm guessing it's gone up.
Click to expand...

eBay prices are the highest. If you can find them offline by calling around to non-gaming sources, chances are you will pay a lot less. My continued recommendation if prices feel like a ripoff is to save your money and buy a non-PVM/BVM CRT. For gaming they're not uniquely special and not always the best choice.

NormalFish said:
Does anyone actually pay 500$ for those monitors?
Click to expand...

Some are paying around $1000 for the 20" Sony pro monitors. I got in when a couple of guys were offloading a bunch and only paid $150~ and $215~ for mine, the latter with pretty low hour count (8k).

SheepyGuy said:
RetroRGB did an interview with a former Sony PVM/BVM repair technician recently and he said that it was very common for monitors pushing past 30k hours to get the tube replaced. If you have a monitor with a lot of hours but the picture still looks good it's worth getting.
Click to expand...

Maybe years ago when they were in a professional environment and a company had a contract with Sony for regular maintenance and parts replacement. Some of the sets out there have probably been passed around from one lay person to the next, years since being serviced by a tech, and looking blurry and worn. My old PVM was like that. Probably well past 30k hours since its last tube replacement.
 
P

Peltz

Member
NormalFish said:
Is expecting it toast another decade or two reasonable though? Without a tube replacement, or other repair options, I feel like these tubes just haven't been out long enough to say whether or not your expectations are founded.
Click to expand...

I'm going to necro-quote you in version 30 of this thread when my PVM finally dies and say:

"In your face NormalFish!!! My PVM gave me decades!!!!"

:p

P.S. We could say the same thing about the framemeister. The build quality of framemeister feels incredibly cheap (especially the flimsy 8-pin socket which takes RGB). Who's to say they'll last with over a decade of heavy use? We just don't know.

These things are gambles either way. My 2011 model Panasonic Plasma died on me after owning it for only 3.5 years suddenly one day without warning and you'd think something like that would outlast a decades old CRT. Yet I had a Panasonic BT broadcast monitor that was still kicking from 1990.

Two Panasonic sets, and the one that still works isn't the one you'd expect.

You just never know with these things.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Mega said:
eBay prices are the highest. If you can find them offline by calling around to non-gaming sources, chances are you will pay a lot less. My continued recommendation if prices feel like a ripoff is to save your money and buy a non-PVM/BVM CRT. For gaming they're not uniquely special and not always the best choice.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I know. It took me about 3 months but I managed to find a BVM at a great price (£20).

If it were to break, I would probably just get a normal CRT. Would just be an easier life. I also have a 9 inch pvm, but its just a little too small..
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Peltz said:
We could say the same thing about the framemeister. The build quality of framemeister feels incredibly cheap (especially the flimsy 8-pin socket which takes RGB). Who's to say they'll last with over a decade of heavy use? We just don't know.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I realize, but I'm more inclined to give a relatively new piece of technology the benefit of a double than an old one, though I admit there's not actually much reason for that.
 
P

Peltz

Member
NormalFish said:
Yeah, I realize, but I'm more inclined to give a relatively new piece of technology the benefit of a double than an old one, though I admit there's not actually much reason for that.
Click to expand...
I'd take an industrial-grade Sony product over consumer grade Micomsoft product any day of the week, even with a 10 year advantage.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
sony's not making these things, though...for the same reason pretty much no one is, it's a very niche product.

point taken on the 2011 panny plasma, though...i wanna say mine was from '09 or so and i loved it, but it was starting to go on me by about 2013/14 or so, replaced it with one of their last ones, it's a 3D model that's holding up but the lag is way worse, and i'm not exactly gonna be surprised if it doesn't make it to 2020, which sucks.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
I imagine for medical use, low latency and good resolution are pretty valuable, so maybe those monitors would be passable for gaming. Can't imagine they put a huge emphasis on color accuracy and vibrance, though.
 
B

BTails

Member
Just saw in the ParentGAF thread: a BIG CONGRATS to our girl Peagles on the birth of her baby boy! May he grow up big and strong!
Strong enough to lift a giant CRT ;)
 
M

Mega

Banned
Congrats to Peagles. May her baby boy grow to have a normal and healthy love for retro games!

retro for him will be Playstation 7, Xbox Four² :(

and NES
 
R

Ramune

Member
Laevateinn said:
So, what do medical offices and TV stations use nowadays for their professional video needs?
Click to expand...

Haven't been at my local public access station in a while, but I work at a hospital and they use Sony and Olympus LCD monitors. There are still some Olympus PVMs lying around and being used occasionally (I managed to get 2 when they were going to toss out 5, and for free no less. Didn't have enough space for all of them sadly).

The medical building across from the main campus even had 3 PVMs in the little deli shop's storage area, but they probably tossed those out too as I no longer see them anymore. :(

And oh wow! Congrats to Peagles! :)
 
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