cyborgnumberblue
Member
I got my GF an AVS and we were playing it on my KS8000 and I didn't see any of those. Are you running pixel perfect mode or the 4:3 mode?
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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
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I got my GF an AVS and we were playing it on my KS8000 and I didn't see any of those. Are you running pixel perfect mode or the 4:3 mode?
RetroRGB put up a quick review of the Garo Component to SCART / VGA converter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9T0zpV5rTk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9T0zpV5rTk
sixteen-bit
Member
They deserve way more subscribers.
Looking at grabbing a smaller monitor to use for gaming with my OSSC. Something that I can throw in tate mode, and small-ish that I can put away easily when I'm not using it (unlike my PVM.)
Would be using it for my Mega Drive, Saturn, Dreamcast, Naomi and presumably an SNES at some point.
What's the ideal aspect ratio to look for; 5:4 or 4:3?
Would be using it for my Mega Drive, Saturn, Dreamcast, Naomi and presumably an SNES at some point.
What's the ideal aspect ratio to look for; 5:4 or 4:3?
CrashPrime
Member
Yes. Aspect ratio is different for different consoles because retro games when displayed on a CRT do not have square pixels. NES & SNES is 8:7 output at 4:3 with analog stretching. It's why 1:1 pixel mapping looks so narrow and wrong, and 4:3 looks slightly stretched.
A 6:5 with slight vertical over scan looks nice. 5:4 with jailbars looks nice. Both are nice integer scales for fixed pixel 1080p displays.
Great video.
One small correction though. They said that the Gameboy vc games on the 3ds only had the black and white colour pallette, but if you hold L+R down and press Y you can switch to the nostalgic green pallette. It's not super Gameboy levels but still something.
I'm looking at getting an LCD (if that was unclear) and 5:4 typically has a native res of 1280x1024, while 4:3 typically has a native res of 1600x1200 for 19" displays. Scaling with the OSSC is my primary concern.
I'm leaning towards a 5:4 display, but I wanted to post in here to see if there were any sound arguments against it.
CrashPrime
Member
If 5:4 looks good to your eyes I don't see any drawbacks. While not perfect, it looks great to my eyes. I prefer overscanning to 6:5 (usually 1200p) and tweaking top/bottom over scan on a game by game basis.
sixteen-bit
Member
I got nostalgic with their cutaways to classics like DK'94, Bionic Commando, Gargoyles Quest, and Catrap. I love the GB and it's well worth diving in to.
If you aren't going for CIB, you can find lots of Game Boy games on eBay for dirt cheap. I bought a lot of 100 (JP) games for $99 Canadian a few years ago, and only wound up with like 4 doubles or so. It included all of the must-have titles as well. It was surreal opening them up. They were packed like Premium Plus crackers.
I don't think it matters if you get a display that's 4:3, widescreen or whatever... as long as you can adjust aspect ratio in its OSD. Unless I'm crazy here, the NES hardware + OSSC will output a picture that looks authentic (not wide) when stretched to 4:3 on a pixel display. This is not like taking raw output from a NES emulator and stretching it to 4:3 (too wide).
I'd prefer to get a very low input lag, low ghosting widescreen monitor to use everything on OSSC ranging from 8-bit to gen 6 widescreen games.
bodine1231
Member
No I was running 16:9 but I had the fit to screen set to auto. When I turned it to off those bars went away. Looks amazing now.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Nice, great way to play some Castlevania!
I used one that scaled to 1080p to play through Shenmue on my TV, got the job done.
Yes.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I'm really not a fan of this completely disparaging attitude against anything that isn't a framemeister, OSSC, or some kind of enthusiast BeharBros VGA box. With the exclusion of the framemeister, I have owned all of these and more. Are some better than others? Obviously, but you shouldn't only have the option of sinking 100 bucks to play a system.
We are trying to play our old consoles, let's not discourage people from doing that even on an entry level.
This thing is 25 bucks with Amazon prime and will get the job done fine.
A cheapo box that scales will more likely be awful, yes. Especially in contrast if your TV does at least a decent job at scaling 480p. Just get a box that doesn't scale. That way it only has to get one thing right - analog to digital conversion... Well that and not squish DC's 720x480 total frame into a 640x480 output.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Best/better option is entirely relative to the user:
Why would a $400 (conservative on the pricing here) even be on the table here?
Laevateinn
Member
This is why I can't afford children. Why have a baby if it means I have to make a sacrifice in picture quality for my Sega Saturn?
congrats by the way!
Peagles with the mad truth bombs. The greatest thing I ever did was not buy any cheap junk, thanks to this thread. I saved and went straight for a Framemeister and high quality SCART cables, though I was tempted by the cheaper alternatives many times.
Bakkus
Member
Is the Japanese and the North American versions of the console identical? Because this tutorial seems to be about the Japanese one.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
They're very similar. You can use that guide for a toploader no problem.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Right... forgot about that part.
D.Lo
Member
There is a slot-in 3D printed SNES multi AV out available, no drilling required.
That's right on the money. And I understand where those people are coming from but retro gaming in this day and age takes time, effort, and money if you want to have a near perfect experience on a modern audio/video setup. Hell I've bought one of those cheap scarf to HDMI scalers before and I instantly regretted it. If people really want the cheapest solution though getting a regular consumer CRT to plug in your retro consoles would be 100% better than all that cheap garbage.
As far as I'm concerned, if you want to play an old console on a modern set, you've got a few good options:
1. Buy the premium stuff that is made for gaming that other gamers have vouched for ike the OSSC or Framemeister.
2. Emulate and forget original hardware altogether.
3. Use composite or S-video directly on your HDTV.
Just don't waste your money on some half-measure piece of non-gaming hardware that is designed with some non-gaming application in mind. If you think "well, I'd rather gamble $25 dollars on some unknown hardware that may look slightly better than composite," well.... I don't know what to tell you. That's likely $25 wasted. It will probably lag and still not look how you want it to. And then you'll realize that it isn't much better than composite anyway and you'll go back to allowing your HDTV try to resolve the composite source.
You're just better off letting the brand-name HDTV try to do its thing with the composite image than to trust some other random piece of hardware that no one has ever heard of.
And if you think there is something we missed -- some sort of $25 solution that you think looks good because you took a chance on it and feel like it was money well spent-- then post some screens and allow others in on the secret. But don't just say "hey this thing is a good solution" without pics or evidence and expect everyone else to not immediately assume it sucks without more information.
When it comes to image quality, if you're going to be cheap about it, just be cheap all the way and use options 2 or 3 above. If you want a good image, then go the other route with a CRT or a good known product. But whatever you do, just don't drop a few bucks here and there because you feel like dabbling in a different flavor of shit sandwiches for a while. It's a waste of time and money and poor image quality is already possible right out of the box.
bodine1231
Member
I bought this cable from retro console accesories on eBay a couple years ago and I can't seem to get a picture on my XRGB. Whats weird is I am getting sound but just a blue screen. I tried increasing the sync level but that didnt work.I tried contacting them but no answer for 3 days now,can anyone tell me why this wouldnt work with a SNES on the XRGB?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
There are other good options that don't break the bank. If your TV supports component or VGA 240p sanely (Samsung TVs do a good job) you can transcode or split the sync from SCART to one of those. Or maybe you live in Europe and just have SCART-in that is handled well.
I also feel like once the OSSC gets open sourced like it's supposed to we'll start to see a flood of cheap OSSC/FPGA based scalers from China, which will only get cheaper as FPGAs go down in price.
I also feel like once the OSSC gets open sourced like it's supposed to we'll start to see a flood of cheap OSSC/FPGA based scalers from China, which will only get cheaper as FPGAs go down in price.
Shin Johnpv
Member
If you're trying to use this on an SNES Mini it natively doesn't have RGB out. What model SNES are you trying to play it on?
The other possibility, did you get a JP21 or Scart to Framemeister cable?
Shin Johnpv
Member
I know others have already said but perfectly said Peagle. I know a lot of us regulars in this thread have tried the cheap options, and they're just not good products. They're not made with gaming in mind, which is what sets the Framemeister and OSSC apart from the other scallers out there.
To those reading, trust us. If we could get good results from something that was only 20 - 30 bucks, the majority of us would probably be using it. I'd rather not have paid 300 bucks for a framemeister (although trust me it is worth every fucking penny) if I could have gotten the same quality and low lag upscalling from something else.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I have 2 PVMs, an OSSC, a bunch of cheap converters and scalers and don't consider any of it a waste of money.
To automatically assume that the most expensive premium quality stuff would suit every instance is ridiculous. You're telling me that the only things you can recommend are either that or emulation?
There exist middle ground alternatives and shelling out 25 bucks as opposed to 100-400 just to play Dreamcast is a lot more reasonable for many people. I am not implying by any means that the image quality approaches that of more expensive options, but this entire dialogue started because a poster wanted cheap way to accomplish that. I do not buy into the "all-in" mentality prevalent in this thread and if it works out for the person, let them decide to dig deeper of their own volition. There certainly isn't any lack of info in here should they choose to do so.
What's this about the Jan 31 date on the Solaris page for the Framemeister? Is there a new revision coming out or is that just the earliest expected shipping date?
Oh, and I see two different EUR ones on the page at different prices. Are those just different bundles? I can't immediately see the differences on the page except one has selections for extra cables and stuff and the other doesn't.
Edit: The EUR models have the right power cables and everything right?
Oh, and I see two different EUR ones on the page at different prices. Are those just different bundles? I can't immediately see the differences on the page except one has selections for extra cables and stuff and the other doesn't.
Edit: The EUR models have the right power cables and everything right?
Shin Johnpv
Member
Yeah but a lot of times when a person goes the cheap solution, the 25 dollar upscaller from amazon, the experience is so poor they don't stick with it. So what is the point?
I think its been brought up but we regularly in this thread see people come in and say Im going to try this thing, oh it sucks what else can I try, and eventually they're buying a framemeister, CRT or OSSC.
If this stuff leaves so many people with a bad enough experience they either stop playing, or just say fuck it and go the expensive route, it seems like there's no point in recommending or pointing some one in the cheap direction.
There are times when there are valid good solutions from low price, mid range to high price. This is one of those rare situations where there just isn't. It's not a clear lineation in regards to price/performance.
I think its been brought up but we regularly in this thread see people come in and say Im going to try this thing, oh it sucks what else can I try, and eventually they're buying a framemeister, CRT or OSSC.
If this stuff leaves so many people with a bad enough experience they either stop playing, or just say fuck it and go the expensive route, it seems like there's no point in recommending or pointing some one in the cheap direction.
There are times when there are valid good solutions from low price, mid range to high price. This is one of those rare situations where there just isn't. It's not a clear lineation in regards to price/performance.
Shin Johnpv
Member
The Framemeister is being discontinued to because one of the ICs has reached end of life and isn't being made anymore. Solaris is taking pre-orders on the next shipment that will come in February. Micomsoft is saying there should be enough stock for 2017, after that there's no more. They have not announced a successor or anything of that sort.
I can't say about the European ones but the one I ordered came with a power adapter that worked in the US. But clicking on one it says right in the description that it includes a power adapter.Plus it's not hard to figure out what the different versions are, it says so in the description.
One comes with a JP21 adapter, and one comes with the Scart adapter. Once you pick that, you are given the option of bundling it with the component to d-sub adapter as well.
Not trying to be snarky but a lot of your answers were right on the page.
I did try one of those "cheap" component-to-HDMI converters on Amazon for like $50. The only reason was because my current TV has no composite input. It's pretty much no different than directly connecting composite cables into a modern TV (if it even accepts them). It looked like the left Chrono Trigger gif on that XRGB solaris Japan page.
The OSSC at $200~ already seems like the middle of the road option (scalers and converters not targeted at gamers can cost a lot more). I've said this before, but there's quite a bit of "race to the bottom" mentality among gamers, meaning an unwillingness to pay for quality hardware, settling on buying garbage, being surprised when it looks and feels cheap, runs poorly and finally breaks. $200 is not a lot in the grand scheme of buying a nice TV, receiver, consoles, games, etc.
I myself bought two cheap HDMI to Component converter/scalers from Amazon and regretted it. Both did one or more things poorly or lacked useful features. I paid more (but not a lot) for a much higher quality HDFury converter/scaler that did everything and did it well. I knew about it first but I tried cutting corners and paid more than necessary as a consequence. Buying the upfront costlier but superior option is what I should have done in the first place!
I myself bought two cheap HDMI to Component converter/scalers from Amazon and regretted it. Both did one or more things poorly or lacked useful features. I paid more (but not a lot) for a much higher quality HDFury converter/scaler that did everything and did it well. I knew about it first but I tried cutting corners and paid more than necessary as a consequence. Buying the upfront costlier but superior option is what I should have done in the first place!
Hey I was just playing Super Mario Land on my Super Gameboy 2 earlier today. Good stuff.
RadarScope1
Member
There is one cheap option, and only one: a consumer CRT. If you can make space for it, it opens up everything in one move. If you can't make the room for it, then you have to open your wallet. (And there are still ways to drop lots of money on a CRT, too.)
Beer Monkey
Member
You've got some scan lines but some of them are half as thick as the others. That's the curse of the Wii U.
MattyH
Member
i second this i paid £15 for my 14" Trinitron and about £15 a piece for a Gamecube RGB cable and a good quality PS2 cable found a decent scart switcher for £3 in a charity shop and its worth every penny
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