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[bodine1231]

There is one cheap option, and only one: a consumer CRT. If you can make space for it, it opens up everything in one move. If you can't make the room for it, then you have to open your wallet. (And there are still ways to drop lots of money on a CRT, too.)

Yep,this. It wont look as good as a PVM through RGB,but it will look MUCH better than some shitty scaler on an LCD. It is also a more "authentic" experience,none of us were gaming on professional Sony monitors with European hookups.

 

[Mega]

After watching the latest MLiG dedicated to the game boy, I've tried to get the wiU gba virtual console to work with the ossc in order to get some scanlines.

Wii U is connected via component to the ossc and I'm getting the audio from the game pad to an external speaker

You've got some scan lines but some of them are half as thick as the others. That's the curse of the Wii U.

This isn't related to vWii's problems. The Wii U side of the console doesn't have weird scaling and filter problems at 720p and 1080p (480p has an aggressive blur filter). The Wii U GBA VC itself is really good. Because lepo is using Component I'm assuming he set it to 720p (max progressive res), OSSC puts scanlines on it, then his TV upscales the output to 1080p native res which screws up the lines.

I'm not sure if this is doable with the OSSC, maybe with some other HDMI passthrough device with a scanlines option, but all you need to do is keep Wii U at 1080p and set the GBA to pixel perfect mode. It produces a 6x/960p integer scaled game in a window. The scanlines slapped on top should be perfect.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

For those interested in the UltraHDMI mod kit, Game-tech.us is going to be selling about 40 of them, and retrofixes.com is going to have some for pre-order as well.

Game-tech's youtube video about it

https://youtu.be/8EnS5RirL7w

 

[bobble]

There is one cheap option, and only one: a consumer CRT. If you can make space for it, it opens up everything in one move. If you can't make the room for it, then you have to open your wallet. (And there are still ways to drop lots of money on a CRT, too.)

The hunt of good consumer CRTs is fun too - driving around town to thrift stores to find the one that fits your set up best! I love my professional monitors but consumer TVs (especially bubble fronts) with s-vid and component (US, obviously) look really great and 27 inchers are everywhere. I think analog will always be chic and there are plenty of sets that look great aesthetically.

 

[Fuzzy]

For those interested in the UltraHDMI mod kit, Game-tech.us is going to be selling about 40 of them, and retrofixes.com is going to have some for pre-order as well.

Game-tech's youtube video about it

https://youtu.be/8EnS5RirL7w

His site says 7pm EST, less than 2 hours from now.

UltraHDMI upgrade kit – 1080p for your N64!

$140.00

WILL TURN ON SALE AT 7PM EASTERN TIME!!!!!

The BEST hdmi upgrade kit for the Nintendo N64!!!

One per person for this sale, SORRY!!!!

 

[RadarScope1]

The hunt of good consumer CRTs is fun too - driving around town to thrift stores to find the one that fits your set up best! I love my professional monitors but consumer TVs (especially bubble fronts) with s-vid and component (US, obviously) look really great and 27 inchers are everywhere. I think analog will always be chic and there are plenty of sets that look great aesthetically.

Your details are right on point here. I have a PVM (and, in a stroke of good fortune access to a few more) but I am lately thinking that I should be looking for exactly what you describe here as a hedge: Trinitron, 27-inch, curved screen, with component inputs (which would also almost certainly have an s-video input). Most of those with component input are the flat screen variety, though.

And yes, the hunt can be fun. Especially since the days of being able to hunt for retro games (pre-PS2 anyway) in stores are all but over.

 

[lepo]

This isn't related to vWii's problems. The Wii U side of the console doesn't have weird scaling and filter problems at 720p and 1080p (480p has an aggressive blur filter). The Wii U GBA VC itself is really good. Because lepo is using Component I'm assuming he set it to 720p (max progressive res), OSSC puts scanlines on it, then his TV upscales the output to 1080p native res which screws up the lines.

I'm not sure if this is doable with the OSSC, maybe with some other HDMI passthrough device with a scanlines option, but all you need to do is keep Wii U at 1080p and set the GBA to pixel perfect mode. It produces a 6x/960p integer scaled game in a window. The scanlines slapped on top should be perfect.

I've done a few more tests and so far I've set the wii's output resolution to 480p , the aspect ratio to 4:3 and obviously the gba vc to pixel perfect mode. This way the scanlines seem to be working better but like Mega said the best way is probably 1080p and pixel perfect mode ( without the ossc)

 

[dubc35]

Ha, CRT talk had me looking around local Craigslist for S's and G's. Saw some good options: 20" Trinitron, 32" D series JVC, super old 8" black and white PVM all for $20 or less, good stuff. S-video and YPbPr, in my experience, are much less fussy than RGB with respect to video phase issues so it's more time gaming and less adjusting on the US consumer sets.

 

[Brhoom]

For those interested in the UltraHDMI mod kit, Game-tech.us is going to be selling about 40 of them, and retrofixes.com is going to have some for pre-order as well.

Game-tech's youtube video about it

https://youtu.be/8EnS5RirL7w

No, no no, just 10 more days until I can afford one.

Being a student doesn't blend well with being a retro game collector.

 

[Mega]

Messing around with a few cores in the MIST.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Are the scanlines from the built in linedoubler? Or something external.

Either way looks cool.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

No, no no, just 10 more days until I can afford one.

Being a student doesn't blend well with being a retro game collector.

Try contacting Retrofixes.com with the email on his page. He may not charge till you send it in.

Game-tech.us is sold out now of his.

Though in his video he said he's going to try to work with the dude who does the UltraHDMI to get a much larger batch done next time. I think he said they would shoot for like 500.

 

[Khaz]

Messing around with a few cores in the MIST.

It's too bad the MiST doesn't play original media, like Amiga floppies or Spectrum tapes. I would have seriously considered one if it did. It's a fantastic little device.

 

[Mega]

Are the scanlines from the built in linedoubler? Or something external.

Either way looks cool.

Most of the cores run line-doubled, I guess to make it easier for modern displays to better handle the low res. But they also all come with scanline filters to help recreate the original look. I'm playing on a CRT at 480p/576p and you can still see very thin black lines between the scanlines which is probably what you're seeing. The only screenshot I enabled a scanline filter is for the Amiga game (Chaos Engine top-down shooter).

It's too bad the MiST doesn't play original media, like Amiga floppies or Spectrum tapes. I would have seriously considered one if it did. It's a fantastic little device.

There are four USB ports and two pin connector ports. Maybe someone has or will work out a way to use cassette and floppy drive accessories?

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Most of the cores run line-doubled, I guess to make it easier for modern displays to better handle the low res. But they also all come with scanline filters to help recreate the original look. I'm playing on a CRT at 480p/576p and you can still see very thin black lines between the scanlines which is probably what you're seeing. The only screenshot I enabled a scanline filter is for the Amiga game (Chaos Engine top-down shooter).

Yeah I meant the one with scanlines enabled.

Do most cores also support a native res output? Might look nice on a PVM.

 

[gingerbeardman]

AFAIK mist is VGA out only

 

[Mega]

Yeah I meant the one with scanlines enabled.

Do most cores also support a native res output? Might look nice on a PVM.

Most run at VGA res. The resolutions are double of whatever the native output was, and 50 or 60Hz refresh depending if it's a NTSC or PAL core.

The exception is the PC Engine core which has config files to run in either 15KHz or 31KHz modes and the NES core for which you can disable line-doubling with a simple .ini file. I tested the PCE core and it does work on my SD-only BVM.

Edit: apparently, more than one core works with the ini file that disables line doubling. I'm not clear on exactly which ones (Amiga seems like another one), but that at least gives the answer that several cores do work on standard CRTs.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

AFAIK mist is VGA out only

Quite a few VGA monitors can handle 15KHz over VGA, plus you could always combine sync and put that into a SCART or BNC input.

 

[Phil Fish]

Anyone here using RetroBit's wireless NES/SNES controllers on their actual SNES/NES? Not trying to shill here, but I don't regret either of my purchases for the NES/SNES controllers. It feels great to play SNES wireless-ly, and it was must for my Famicom since those cables are disgustingly short.

Edit: 8BitDo, not retrobit

 

[D.Lo]

Anyone here using RetroBit's wireless NES/SNES controllers on their actual SNES/NES? Not trying to shill here, but I don't regret either of my purchases for the NES/SNES controllers. It feels great to play SNES wireless-ly, and it was must for my Famicom since those cables are disgustingly short.

8bitdo. Original shape controllers.

NES, AV Famicom and Super Famicom versions have been my exclusive controllers for those systems since the receivers were released.

 

[Phil Fish]

8bitdo. Original shape controllers.

NES, AV Famicom and Super Famicom versions have been my exclusive controllers for those systems since the receivers were released.

God, I didn't mean to type Retrobit oops... those things are terrible. I meant to say 8BitDo, like yourself.

I got the original shapes as well. One SNES for my SNES, and one Famicom for my Famicom.

And they just announced a 64 controller as well which is great. As soon as a 64 receiver comes out in addition to that, I'll be getting them. They're doing God's work.

 

[CrashPrime]

Anyone here using RetroBit's wireless NES/SNES controllers on their actual SNES/NES? Not trying to shill here, but I don't regret either of my purchases for the NES/SNES controllers. It feels great to play SNES wireless-ly, and it was must for my Famicom since those cables are disgustingly short.

Edit: 8BitDo, not retrobit

8bitdo pcbs are flawed in design. They cause multiple error diagonal button presses. Most noticeable in fighting games and contra.

The feel of the controllers are unmatched, but the lack of competition is preventing them from a pcb redesign.

The iBuffalo/Buffalo SNES controllers have better pcbs but feel cheap due to needing to keep the cost at around $10. PC only.

Raphnet controller adapters are probably the best option. Also official NES/SNES controllers exist but the SNES is an import as it never saw a US release and goes for like $60, and the NES is a classic mini product so currently near impossible to buy. Not to mention both require a classic controller to usb adapter. Wii/PC only.

All this is irrelevant to actual hardware. Stick to OEM for those or...

In my opinion the best retro controller is a Wii U Pro controller. Fantastic dpad with great battery life, wireless, and easy to buy. Compatible with both the 8bitdo wireless receivers.

 

[Peltz]

Phil Fish posting in retro gaf... no big deal or anything...

Spoiler

Dude, I loved FEZ! I was obsessed with it for months after it came out. I'm a huge fan! That is all.

 

[D.Lo]

God, I didn't mean to type Retrobit oops... those things are terrible. I meant to say 8BitDo, like yourself.

I got the original shapes as well. One SNES for my SNES, and one Famicom for my Famicom.

And they just announced a 64 controller as well which is great. As soon as a 64 receiver comes out in addition to that, I'll be getting them. They're doing God's work.

I thought you might mean 8bitdo, given you mentioned Famicom. Though only AV Famicom, I would love for them to release a receiver for the original Famicom expansion port.

Apparently the N64 pad isn't as high quality unfortunately. And I went Hori Mini pad many years ago so would prefer a wireless one of those!

8bitdo pcbs are flawed in design. They cause multiple error diagonal button presses. Most noticeable in fighting games and contra.

I have never had any issues so just googled this, and it seems to be true. I personally have absolutely no issues and have finished dozens on games of Contra with 8bitdo pads, but just did an A/B with a real controller on Contra Spirits and you can make it go diagonal by 'leaning' on the side of down or up. Seems my play style is more precise that some people so I don't have any issues, but it is true it is different.

 

[the androgyne]

Little help please. I'm still considering getting (read: still coming to terms with spending that kind of money) myself a Framemeister, and chatting with a buddy of mine about this stuff.

He's got an Elgato GameCapture HD which he bought for... capturing video in HD. But he runs his Saturn through S-Video with it, and is pretty happy with it. Basically he's suggesting i go cheap and get one too. Obviously that doesn't take RGB nor is it a dedicated upscaler, and so i still want the Framemeister.

But out of interest i got him to send me a video recorded by his Elgato, and it looks fairly good. I can still see some bleed and blurriness, the colors don't look as bold as they should etc. But i guess i was moderately impressed, it beats what i remember of using S-Video direct on my LCD in the past. Until i can get it side by side with a Saturn running RGB through Framemeister though, i don't think there's gonna be any convincing him of the difference!

Just wondering if anyone else has tried my friend's setup and what they thought of it?

Youtube kills the quality of his video so much it's not worth posting. But i do have this screenshot I wanted to post for another reason. I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on why the sprite in the background breaks up like this during certain frames? While the other characters are fine. I've seen the same thing on Wii VC running Neo Geo games (through component on a CRT) and some Saturn games too. Is it just something dodgy per game or a connection issue? It's really distracting!

 

[Shin Johnpv]

My guess is that the capture card is treating the 240p signal as 480i, so when you have a flashing sprite or certain transparencies, that's the kind of effect you get. I could be wrong though.

 

[Khaz]

Quite a few VGA monitors can handle 15KHz over VGA, plus you could always combine sync and put that into a SCART or BNC input.

Which ones? They do both 15kHz and 31kHz? Because I'd need one straight away.

 

[Phil Fish]

I thought you might mean 8bitdo, given you mentioned Famicom. Though only AV Famicom, I would love for them to release a receiver for the original Famicom expansion port.

Apparently the N64 pad isn't as high quality unfortunately. And I went Hori Mini pad many years ago so would prefer a wireless one of those!

Yeah, it'd be nice if that existed. It should be simple to make it for them, I think. All I've done is rewire my 2 NES extension cables to my famicom front port. Didn't have to do anything else.

 

[Laevateinn]

Which ones? They do both 15kHz and 31kHz? Because I'd need one straight away.

Supposedly most NEC CRT Monitors support 15 KHz because they want compatibility with their PC98 series of computers. That said, most spec-sheets neglect to mention 15 KHz support and I ended up playing it safe and just buying a monitor from Japan to make sure it worked.

God, I didn't mean to type Retrobit oops... those things are terrible. I meant to say 8BitDo, like yourself.

I got the original shapes as well. One SNES for my SNES, and one Famicom for my Famicom.

And they just announced a 64 controller as well which is great. As soon as a 64 receiver comes out in addition to that, I'll be getting them. They're doing God's work.

Not until they start releasing Genesis and Saturn controllers.

 

[Timu]

Little help please. I'm still considering getting (read: still coming to terms with spending that kind of money) myself a Framemeister, and chatting with a buddy of mine about this stuff.

He's got an Elgato GameCapture HD which he bought for... capturing video in HD. But he runs his Saturn through S-Video with it, and is pretty happy with it. Basically he's suggesting i go cheap and get one too. Obviously that doesn't take RGB nor is it a dedicated upscaler, and so i still want the Framemeister.

But out of interest i got him to send me a video recorded by his Elgato, and it looks fairly good. I can still see some bleed and blurriness, the colors don't look as bold as they should etc. But i guess i was moderately impressed, it beats what i remember of using S-Video direct on my LCD in the past. Until i can get it side by side with a Saturn running RGB through Framemeister though, i don't think there's gonna be any convincing him of the difference!

Just wondering if anyone else has tried my friend's setup and what they thought of it?

Youtube kills the quality of his video so much it's not worth posting. But i do have this screenshot I wanted to post for another reason. I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on why the sprite in the background breaks up like this during certain frames? While the other characters are fine. I've seen the same thing on Wii VC running Neo Geo games (through component on a CRT) and some Saturn games too. Is it just something dodgy per game or a connection issue? It's really distracting!

Elgato treats 240p as 480i so issues like that can occur...that's one of the many reasons why I never use one.

 

[the androgyne]

Howcome i've seen the same kind of rough sprites on my old CRT, with consoles plugged directly in then? Both Wii and Saturn were PAL machines at the time, tv could only do 576i, though i was running NTSC games on the Saturn with action replay.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Howcome i've seen the same kind of rough sprites on my old CRT, with consoles plugged directly in then? Both Wii and Saturn were PAL machines at the time, tv could only do 576i, though i was running NTSC games on the Saturn with action replay.

If the TV was only 576i, I think it's the interlacing, as mentioned above.

 

[Khaz]

I have to express doubt at a CRT only being able to display interlaced.

 

[Timu]

Howcome i've seen the same kind of rough sprites on my old CRT, with consoles plugged directly in then? Both Wii and Saturn were PAL machines at the time, tv could only do 576i, though i was running NTSC games on the Saturn with action replay.

A CRT should be able to do both progressive and interlaced content. Unless your CRT only sees 240p(or in this case 288p) as 576i.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If anybody wants a BIG SDTV with component input and are near SW Ohio (Dayton/Cincinnati), I can hook you up with a free Sony FD Trinitron WEGA KV-32FS120. 32", 165lb. It HAS to be picked up by Friday, though, at my place of employment. These are old break room TVs, replaced by flat panels a couple of years ago.

 

[Laevateinn]

If anybody wants a BIG SDTV with component input and are near SW Ohio (Dayton/Cincinnati), I can hook you up with a free Sony FD Trinitron WEGA KV-32FS120. 32", 165lb. It HAS to be picked up by Friday, though, at my place of employment. These are old break room TVs, replaced by flat panels a couple of years ago.

If nobody else gets to you, I'll have to see if I can convince my father-in-law to pick one up. Are you closer to Cincinnati or Dayton? They just moved to the Cincinnati area so I don't know the geography well.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If nobody else gets to you, I'll have to see if I can convince my father-in-law to pick one up. Are you closer to Cincinnati or Dayton? They just moved to the Cincinnati area so I don't know the geography well.

It's right around here.

I can help lift/carry if I'm in the office, though I'm often not here (I would put the recipient in touch with somebody who could let them in and give them access to the set if I am not).

 

[geniusbits]

Hooking up a Dreamcast to a consumer 15khz CRT, how much of a difference would it be for games that can run 480p? In other words, how much better does 480p look than 480i when the 480i is being displayed properly on a decent CRT? I'm thinking it shouldn't be anything to worry about.

On that same note, does anyone have any experience comparing S-video for Dreamcast on a CRT with Toro>>>SCART to YUV transcoder>>>component in? If I'm going to stick with Dreamcast on a 15khz display I might ditch the Toro.

 

[Timu]

Hooking up a Dreamcast to a consumer 15khz CRT, how much of a difference would it be for games that can run 480p? In other words, how much better does 480p look than 480i when the 480i is being displayed properly on a decent CRT? I'm thinking it shouldn't be anything to worry about.

On that same note, does anyone have any experience comparing S-video for Dreamcast on a CRT with Toro>>>SCART to YUV transcoder>>>component in? If I'm going to stick with Dreamcast on a 15khz display I might ditch the Toro.

It will look better in motion and won't have any of the flickering(if it's there or noticeable).

 

[IrishNinja]

The OSSC at $200~ already seems like the middle of the road option (scalers and converters not targeted at gamers can cost a lot more). I've said this before, but there's quite a bit of "race to the bottom" mentality among gamers, meaning an unwillingness to pay for quality hardware, settling on buying garbage, being surprised when it looks and feels cheap, runs poorly and finally breaks. $200 is not a lot in the grand scheme of buying a nice TV, receiver, consoles, games, etc.

I myself bought two cheap HDMI to Component converter/scalers from Amazon and regretted it. Both did one or more things poorly or lacked useful features. I paid more (but not a lot) for a much higher quality HDFury converter/scaler that did everything and did it well. I knew about it first but I tried cutting corners and paid more than necessary as a consequence. Buying the upfront costlier but superior option is what I should have done in the first place!

There is one cheap option, and only one: a consumer CRT. If you can make space for it, it opens up everything in one move. If you can't make the room for it, then you have to open your wallet. (And there are still ways to drop lots of money on a CRT, too.)

late, but wanted to agree with these posts - honestly, i was surprised at how cheap a solid trinotron w/component, then cables & the SCART to component adapter everyone here uses came to. i get not everyone has room, but if an XRGB or even an OSSC are out of your price range, it's a solid option with clear advantages too.

i also have regret nearly ever cheap adapter thing i've bought. i have a few VGA to component/etc ones i'd used at work years ago, and they're just collecting dust now.

 

[Khaz]

Hooking up a Dreamcast to a consumer 15khz CRT, how much of a difference would it be for games that can run 480p? In other words, how much better does 480p look than 480i when the 480i is being displayed properly on a decent CRT? I'm thinking it shouldn't be anything to worry about.

480p looks slightly more sharp and text is more readable due to the lack of flickering. In my experience flickering is only noticeable on still pictures (like artwork collections) and small text, it poses no problem during gameplay.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I finally got my new sound setup. Albeit... for my computer, but whatever. I also hooked up the OSSC and my Saturn to it, and dear God... it's unlike anything I've ever heard. The most unexpected thing, though, was playing some Sega 3D Classics on there. Genesis games bring the bass.

 

[the androgyne]

I have to express doubt at a CRT only being able to display interlaced.

A CRT should be able to do both progressive and interlaced content. Unless your CRT only sees 240p(or in this case 288p) as 576i.

In Australia hardly any CRTs, even in their final days supported progressive. I imagine this is why Nintendo changed the "hold B" option on PAL Gamecube games to just switch between 50/60hz. I only ever had a DVD player with the option for progressive, but yeah it never displayed anything.

 

[Khaz]

In Australia hardly any CRTs, even in their final days supported progressive. I imagine this is why Nintendo changed the "hold B" option on PAL Gamecube games to just switch between 50/60hz. I only ever had a DVD player with the option for progressive, but yeah it never displayed anything.

progressive is more than just 480p. Your TV can do progressive, 240progressive.

The problem with the Elgato is that it interprets a 240p signal as 480i and tries to deintrelace it, resulting in the comb artefacts.

Any SD CRT can do both 240p/288p and 480i/576i. The problem you were having was most likely due to the Wii defaulting to displaying 240p VC games as 480i, possibly leading to similar artefacts. You should have used the code to change the VC to 240p (A+Z+1 iirc).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

My AV Famicom came back to me today, after having the HiDefNes kit installed into it by Voultar (did an amazing job and so damn fast). Holy shit it is amazing, that's just my initial feelings.

 

[dubc35]

My AV Famicom came back to me today, after having the HiDefNes kit installed into it by Voultar (did an amazing job and so damn fast). Holy shit it is amazing, that's just my initial feelings.

Awesome! Need some pics in the 240p screenshot thread. I am holding off until after the holidays to have him RGB mod my NES.

edit, lol the 240p screenshot thread makes no sense for the Hi Def NES, lol smh

 

[the androgyne]

progressive is more than just 480p. Your TV can do progressive, 240progressive.

The problem with the Elgato is that it interprets a 240p signal as 480i and tries to deintrelace it, resulting in the comb artefacts.

Any SD CRT can do both 240p/288p and 480i/576i. The problem you were having was most likely due to the Wii defaulting to displaying 240p VC games as 480i, possibly leading to similar artefacts. You should have used the code to change the VC to 240p (A+Z+1 iirc).

Hmm I was never aware of that code or the 240p thing, bugger! I can't try any of this now, since the CRT in question was sold in Australia since i moved to Japan. I don't have the Elgato, only my friend. He reckons he doesn't see the artefacts and I haven't played on his setup to check myself either, but i'll take your word for it

Is it the same thing causing comb artefacts when i play Saturn on an LCD through composite? (i'm in between setups for a while ). I've also noticed it on say, a PS3 through HDMI to LCD, running the PSN's KOF Orochi saga (Japanese version). Would that cause the same issue?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

I finally got my new sound setup. Albeit... for my computer, but whatever. I also hooked up the OSSC and my Saturn to it, and dear God... it's unlike anything I've ever heard. The most unexpected thing, though, was playing some Sega 3D Classics on there. Genesis games bring the bass.

Compared with NES/SNES, Genesis is an all-around more radical console. From the design, to the library, to the music it could (and can) make.

 

[JEKKI]

aw man gotta debate getting the framemesiter now >_<

 

[Mega]

My AV Famicom came back to me today, after having the HiDefNes kit installed into it by Voultar (did an amazing job and so damn fast). Holy shit it is amazing, that's just my initial feelings.

Yeah, kicks ass. If you have an Everdrive, fire up Lagrange Point, Gimmick, Akumajou Densetsu and FFS games. The emulation of expansion audio is excellent. Can't get that with the NESRGB + Everdrive combo.