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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
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CrashPrime
Member
I asked a question about performance of a Wii on a CRT but I have an additional question.
Is there any logical way to get a Raspberry Pi 3 or Zero into a CRT at 240p?
The 2 B model had composite out but was limited to a 480i signal.
Is there any logical way to get a Raspberry Pi 3 or Zero into a CRT at 240p?
The 2 B model had composite out but was limited to a 480i signal.
I saw this get posted by RetroRGB not too long ago, considering dinking with it after the holidays.
http://www.retrorgb.com/rpi240pvga.html
I use Wii Retroarch on a CRT to play Genesis and SNES games, I don't feel any input lag whatsoever although I don't have any facts to back this up.
Give it a go, personally I think it's great.
Meant to buy, but thanks for info.
Yeah, I use this all the time. I also have original systems but Wii component to PVM / consumer CRT is great! There is a GBA emu that does 240p but I'm still looking for the best options and emus. A guide for Wii 240p would be cool!
CrashPrime
Member
I am truly an idiot when it comes to video signals. This provides a RGBHV signal via a standard DE-15.
YPbPr is also an analog signal but I believe it carries the sync on green, so I need to convert RGBHV to YPbPr. What does this with the least input lag possible?
Yes, it's the definitive low-cost alternative and it works really well. Tests in 240p suite give me 8-16ms of lag (less than 1 frame), which feels like nothing during actual gameplay. The results are a lot better than what I've experienced with Windows emulators on a modern display (some games borderline unplayable).
Wii+OSSC on a modern display is pretty good too, except the console's blurriness becomes more obvious.
Ban Puncher
Member
CrashPrime
Member
8-16ms is pretty much sub-Framemeister levels and that is going to be hard to match. This sounds like the way to go vs. going Raspberry Pi 3 -> GERT VGA 666 (RGBHV) -> YPbPr. Looking at the Raspberry Pi 3 benchmarks, it will be more powerful than the Wii, but at that point I think CRT_EmuDriver and a PC would end up being the way people would want to go unless they were going for a small footprint.
CrashPrime
Member
Retro -> Frammeister -> Elegato HD60 or Modern Console (PS360/ONE/PS4) -> HD60 I think are your best options.
the SC-512N1-L/DVI Capture Board (and the Startech version) are a good alternative too if you don't want a FM. they can see 240p.
coupled with the OSSC and a HDMI splitter, you can capture and have no input lag while playing. this is almost how my current setup is (i have a receiver between the OSSC and splitter but it's not necessary)
coupled with the OSSC and a HDMI splitter, you can capture and have no input lag while playing. this is almost how my current setup is (i have a receiver between the OSSC and splitter but it's not necessary)
Does the OSSC upscale then? Not really familiar with that side of stuff.
No, line multiplies. Which can be incompatible with certain TVs or devices.
They are some of the best capture cards for retro consoles, I capture 240p through component and RGB easily with them.
Any links to footage?
gingerbeardman
Member
I'm in Cornwall, rural South West England, UK. But thanks!
this was 480p due to UltraHDMI line doubling but you get the idea of how clear the Startech capture card can be.(watch in the highest quality possible)
the original which is the jp version should do a bit better.
I added some links to the OP posts and added a new section on available/upcoming FPGA consoles. It's not fully fleshed out yet, but it's a starting point. Let me know if anything seems off or if there's anything I should include. It'll consist of AVS, NT Mini, MiST, Zimba 3000, etc.
The biggest omission in the OP at the moment is the OSSC... will include soon.
I think a small section on "retro gaming done cheap but right" would also be worthwhile. Not everyone can drop a few thousand on playing old games!
The biggest omission in the OP at the moment is the OSSC... will include soon.
I think a small section on "retro gaming done cheap but right" would also be worthwhile. Not everyone can drop a few thousand on playing old games!
Speaking of the AVS, as of last week he's almost sold out of the current run.
https://twitter.com/retroUSB/status/807213082175041536
https://twitter.com/retroUSB/status/807213082175041536
Agreed about this!! What are some suggestions? Last few pages some of us have agreed on Wii + component is great for SNES and Genesis. and from my experience it's great for 240p NES (and maybe others? PC Engine? Does it do large-size Neo Geo games?). And consumer CRTs can be great and cheap.
^Wii is great for everything up to the 16-bit console gen. It struggles with PlayStation and N64, and I think large Neo Geo games. The best cheap recommendation is a soft-modded Wii paired with a consumer CRT or a low-lag HDTV that does a decent job of upscaling 480p.
Yup, it's currently sold out on his site! Nice(superior) gift for anyone who didn't wanna spend that $200 on a NES Mini.
Speaking of the AVS, as of last week he's almost sold out of the current run.
https://twitter.com/retroUSB/status/807213082175041536
Yup, it's currently sold out on his site! Nice(superior) gift for anyone who didn't wanna spend that $200 on a NES Mini.
RadarScope1
Member
Right on. Let's set the record straight on some of the worthwhile options that cost less, and save people the hassle of the junk that seems good but actually blows.
I salvaged every consumer CRT I came across next to my building over the last two years in Korea. Taking the huge JVC home with me and one other...mainly for component and S-Video for my gameroom. The others are sadly going back into the dumpster. I did get good play on most of them over the years...even used a supergun for a good while. In any case, I share the photo before they get recycled.
Thanks for the replies. I have figured out it's probably a Panasonic Tau CT-27SX11E. It does have component it seems (I'm in America so scart is pretty much out of the question) and S video, which are the things I want it for since I'll be using a supergun on it. No composite though so that's a minor headache to play my old consoles. Anyone heard anything about this model? Want to know if it's worth going out to pick it up and haul it over, especially since it's like 100 pounds and the ground is pretty slippery right now.
Could also be this here: very similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-GekHGK_Fc
Ban Puncher
Member
Check out the prices of Framemeisters on scumBay if you feel like a giggle.
Speaking of the AVS, as of last week he's almost sold out of the current run.
https://twitter.com/retroUSB/status/807213082175041536
I really wanted to buy one... Too bad it would've been customs-fees-apocalypse, to do so from Europe. And I've never been able to find one, outside of the US. So weird.
RadarScope1
Member
I salvaged every consumer CRT I came across next to my building over the last two years in Korea. Taking the huge JVC home with me and one other...mainly for component and S-Video for my gameroom. The others are sadly going back into the dumpster. I did get good play on most of them over the years...even used a supergun for a good while. In any case, I share the photo before they get recycled.
Cool pic! Can you post an ad online for other retro gamers? Even if you don't anything for them at least they could go to a good home? And maybe save you the trouble of hauling them...
Nobody wants them. They were all found in the various dumpsters around my building...well sitting beside them. I do still see old CRTs being used in shops and various markets here. Most often cute little Samsungs. Plus the retro scene in Seoul is almost non-existent. Limited to one underground row of intricately awesome shops. The big JVC one is extremely nice image quality and unlike my old Wegas it has a nicely curved screen. And I'm keeping the tiny one in the top right for composite Fami goodness as it reminds me of my childhood.
RadarScope1
Member
I see. Yeah that JVC one looks nice.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Not impressed with Dreamcast over the OSSC, or interlaced content in general. It helps to configure it to pass thru the signal, but then you're at the mercy of your display to get a good image.
I'm all in on the Akura as soon as they are up for grabs.
I'm all in on the Akura as soon as they are up for grabs.
It's likeley that the Akura will do the exact same thing with 480i as the OSSC. To keep the cost reasonable and considering most games can be forced into progressive anyway, including an expensive framebuffer into such a device makes little sense once the cost/benefits are drawn out. This is why the GCVideo also works this way.
It only really starts making sense when a device has to accomodate a console like the PS2 and or multiple consoles with some 480i games, such as the Framemeister.
480p should look really nice on the OSSC though.
Edit: BTW, how's the aspect ratio look? Is it too narrow looking? Or does it match up with a CRT?
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I'll give it another go tonight when I get home with Shenmue and some 3rd Strike to get some progressive stuff on there. I had only tried Giga Wing and was disappointed (240p mode wasn't working, either. Using the PAL version, so it should work... ) The aspect ratio is fine when processed. I'm using the generic 4:3 so it lines up quite nice. I'll add pics and such.
I ditched the Wii + OSSC + capture card method for reasons related to lag and inconvenience (hardware/software chain I had to turn on just to play a game).
My main hurdle with OSSC direct into the TV was audio and scaling. Televator's suggestion to send HDMI into the TV and audio into a receiver took care of that problem nicely. I have the external scaler that allows the TV to accept OSSC's line multiplied resolutions and without the TV further scaling to 1080p. Problem I had was the scanlines looked awfully uneven, until I discovered changing a "fill" TV setting fixed it! It took lots of fiddling, but this is as good as it gets (for real this time). Now I just need a better low-lag TV for gaming.
I think the Homebrew Channel was recently figured out on the Wii U (not vWii). It's likely this makes all of the above obsolete, inferior and pointless!
My main hurdle with OSSC direct into the TV was audio and scaling. Televator's suggestion to send HDMI into the TV and audio into a receiver took care of that problem nicely. I have the external scaler that allows the TV to accept OSSC's line multiplied resolutions and without the TV further scaling to 1080p. Problem I had was the scanlines looked awfully uneven, until I discovered changing a "fill" TV setting fixed it! It took lots of fiddling, but this is as good as it gets (for real this time). Now I just need a better low-lag TV for gaming.
I think the Homebrew Channel was recently figured out on the Wii U (not vWii). It's likely this makes all of the above obsolete, inferior and pointless!
sixteen-bit
Member
Homebrew Castlevania for ZX Spectrum is super impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVYfisnDys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVYfisnDys
Thanks for looking into this!
If HBC has been ported to WiiU front end, then I seriuously hope Nintendon't bypassing vWii is soon coming. Glad to hear my idea worked out for you.
It is! Until you realise that Spectrum controllers have only one button.
QAOP is such strange control scheme! Brits are weird.
Thanks for the idea! I was having tunnel vision and looking at DVI+audio-to-HDMI converters (kinda pricey and probably add a bit of lag).
HBC has been ported, earlier this month and it runs on the Gamepad too. I'm not sure what apps are on there but I hope all the good stuff makes the transition. Wii U isn't exactly cheap but I think it would replace Wii as the cheap(ish) option.
I gotta try this later! Website here with free download:
http://spectralinterlude.com
This isn't so bad with a modern USB controller (emulator or MiST). Up/jump gets assigned to its own button so it's like playing NES.
Laevateinn
Member
You think that's weird. British people drive on the wrong side of the road, too.
No. No we don't.
Well, everybody else is driving on the right side of the road. Therefore...
Voultar has been radio silent now.
I'm going to have to learn to solder, aren't I? How hard is the NES RGB to install as a first time mod?
I'm almost tempted to just grab a premodded one off ebay at this point... I was hoping to play through my NES games during the winter in glorious RGB.
I'm going to have to learn to solder, aren't I? How hard is the NES RGB to install as a first time mod?
I'm almost tempted to just grab a premodded one off ebay at this point... I was hoping to play through my NES games during the winter in glorious RGB.
Here's an installer. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-AV...-Service-RGB-S-VIDEO-Zapper-Mod-/252685525677
I'm not vouching for the guy as I don't know him, but PM him and ask for clear pics of his work and look for signs that he knows what he's doing. I have bought modded consoles/modding services from ebayers who knew their stuff. $170 is a fair price and you'll come in at least $100 cheaper than buying an already modded unit.
Thanks mega (as always!)
Clean looking mod as far as I can tell. What should I ask him to make sure he's legit?
Edit: he has outstanding feedback. I'll likely go this route.
Laevateinn
Member
Be sure to update us with your results. I tried modding a Famicom for RGB but was having trouble removing the PPU and gave up. I'll probably just go this route when I get around to finishing the job since I'm lazy.
Yeah, eager to know Peltz. Have you looked at Retrofixes? They have been recommended by the MLiG guys before. Another option to consider, although it looks like they're 'sold out' until after the holidays.
Probably a really dumb question: Can a NES front loader be RGB and Hi-Def NES modded at the same time?
Probably a really dumb question: Can a NES front loader be RGB and Hi-Def NES modded at the same time?
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