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[Mega]

Interesting. What does this look like and what HDTV are you using?

Panasonic 1080p plasma. I posted some direct captures above. Some offscreen shots:

Clean pixelation, soft with some subtle artifacts... better than Component directly into my TV which results in a blurry and blotchy picture that's quite ugly and unnatural to my eyes. I think it's the best output possible until we get a HDMI mod that grabs directly from the framebuffer and bypasses the internal encoder or the OSSC (both of which probably contribute to overall softness and artifacts).

 

[NormalFish]

The OSSC seems pretty fucking close to lossless. I doubt that makes much of a difference until you really break out the equipment and start really tearing the image apart.

 

[Peltz]

Panasonic 1080p plasma. I posted some direct captures above. Some offscreen shots:



Clean pixelation, soft with some subtle artifacts... better than Component directly into my TV which results in a blurry and blotchy picture that's quite ugly and unnatural to my eyes. I think it's the best output possible until we get a HDMI mod that grabs directly from the framebuffer and bypasses the internal encoder or the OSSC (both of which probably contribute to overall softness and artifacts).

Any borders when running it like that? Are you using the OSSC?

 

[NormalFish]

Any borders when running it like that? Are you using the OSSC?

It's 1440/960 on 1920/1080 so it should have borders unless I missed something.

 

[Peltz]

By any chance, Mega, could you take a picture of your entire HDTV so I could see the windowed image? I'm just curious as to how it looks.

 

[televator]

The idea is for there to be a border on a 1080p display for 1:1 pixel ratio. Depending on the TV or external device though, it might just get scaled up to 1080p regardless and soften the image.

 

[Mega]

It's 1440/960 on 1920/1080 so it should have borders unless I missed something.

Yeah, that's correct. Big border but I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want the bilinear+non-integer upscale to full 1080p.

FYI, this border is similar to what you get with Hi-Def NES at 4x scale or Ultra HDMI N64 at Integer setting. The NT Mini has a 5x scale and Ultra HDMI has Integer+ that fill up the frame. The closest for Wii would be 3X on OSSC but that's way bigger than a 1080p frame (would be nice for a 1440p monitor).

By any chance, Mega, could you take a picture of your entire HDTV so I could see the windowed image? I'm just curious as to how it looks.

Will do. I'll try tonight when I'm home.

The idea is for there to be a border on a 1080p display for 1:1 pixel ratio. Depending on the TV or external device though, it might just get scaled up to 1080p regardless and soften the image.

Correct. Hardware chain is Wii > OSSC > HDFury IV > receiver/TV. That last device makes windowed 960p possible because the OSSC can't do it on its own.

 

[NormalFish]

i actually find 960p's border on a 1080p display pretty acceptable generally. As in, the border doesn't seem very large to me.

 

[Madao]

i'm sad that my TV can't take the OSSC's line doubled 480p and my monitor doesn't have windowed options.

at least routing the Wii through the OSSC results in a better picture than just plugging the thing directly. also, my TV seems to keep different settings for each type of resolution fed to it on the same input so i can have SD images with 4:3 ratio and HD images with 16:9 ratio without having to change anything. that feature is a godsend so i can live without windowed images for now.

oh btw, i got my new GC Component Cable. i think i'll try getting some pictures of it running through the OSSC to see what happens (i only plugged it directly yesterday to test it worked. i think i'll need a switch for multiple Component cables going into the OSSC)

 

[Mega]

i'm sad that my TV can't take the OSSC's line doubled 480p and my monitor doesn't have windowed options.

Oh yeah, forgot this is the other big reason I use that separate scaler. My TV will not directly display the OSSC's line-doubled 480p and line-tripled 240p. Outputting OSSC to the scaler's 720p, 1080i and 1080p frames makes it work with my plasma.

What model do you have? I have an older Panny plasma. According to one post on the OSSC forum/capability list, it will show line doubled but not triple. I have a TC-P46S1.

Panasonic TC-P50ST50 (ST50 = 2012 models)

 

[dubc35]

Oh yeah, forgot this is the other big reason I use that separate scaler. My TV will not directly display the OSSC's line-doubled 480p and line-tripled 240p. Outputting OSSC to the scaler's 720p, 1080i and 1080p frames makes it work with my plasma.

What model do you have? I have an older Panny plasma. According to one post on the OSSC forum/capability list, it will show line doubled but not triple. I have a TC-P46S1.

 

[televator]

I would hope that the full featured ability to display in a windowed frame will make it into the next XRGB iteration and the next OSSC with a frame buffer... if there ever is one.

However, it will become less important once 4K reaches full saturation into people's homes.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

Some pics from a few of the Wii emulators on my KV-32FS320 trinitron. Sorry for the bad camera angle, the geometry is not as bad as it might appear lol.

http://imgur.com/a/peWWu

 

[Kawika]

Correct. Hardware chain is Wii > OSSC > HDFury IV > receiver/TV. That last device makes windowed 960p possible because the OSSC can't do it on its own.

Oh man, the HD Fury IV is a lot. I am still waiting to get my OSSC.

Someone in this thread mentioned there was an OSSC compatibility list and I am pretty sure I am going to pick up the Sony X800D (43") for my office set-up. I know someone will tell me to get a bigger tv and get oled but honestly, I prefer sitting closer to a smaller tv than sitting 15 feet away from my 65". I use that for movies and TV.

My other Sony 4K never looked right with my XRGB and it has noticeable input lag. I might get the Samsung 6300 even though its inferior because I've had better luck in the past getting decent scanlines from them.

 

[Mega]

By any chance, Mega, could you take a picture of your entire HDTV so I could see the windowed image? I'm just curious as to how it looks.

Here you go. Disregard PQ as I was trying to demonstrate game dimensions while making sure the TV's thick bezel didn't blend in as part of the screen and make the game appear even smaller. Both samples below are 720x480 scaled to 1440x960 on a 1080p TV.

Wii set to 4:3 - proportions are correct

Wii set to 16:9 - proportions too narrow, meant for a TV to scale to 1920x1080 or equivalent widescreen res. A horizontal stretch from 720x480 to 854x480 would also fix proportions but I don't have any hardware that can do this.

 

[linko9]

Have a question about a PCIe capture card, I'm not really sure where a good place to ask is.

In trying to capture my SNES RGB signal, I came across a capture card on ebay advertised as being an epiphan DVI2PCIe card:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132069333349?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

This card can do 240p with csync, so I snagged it for $50, seemed like a great deal. It arrived today and it's not working. Plugs in fine to the PCIe slot, and an LED comes on on the board itself. Windows identifies it as simply a "PCI device" and none of the drivers from epiphan work:

https://www.epiphan.com/products/dvi2pcie/dvi2pcie-downloads/

Looking at the device properties, Windows identifies it as "VEN_1A39&DEV_0004" which is apparently not an epiphan DVI2PCIe, but an sknet MonsterXX card:

http://www.sknet-web.co.jp/english/mvxx/specification.html

Oddly, this card has only an HDMI input, rather than DVI, so I'm not sure what the deal is there. Anyway, none of the drivers for that card work either. Windows continues to simply identify it as "PCI Device" and says "there are no compatible drivers for this device." I can point it to the drivers I downloaded manually, but it fails, saying "Windows could not find driver software for your device."

In both the case of the epiphan drivers and the sknet drivers, they claim to install successfully through the installer, but the problem remains.

Any idea what the problem could be, or if there's any way to fix it?

 

[Bendo]

Oddly, this card has only an HDMI input, rather than DVI, so I'm not sure what the deal is there. Anyway, none of the drivers for that card work either. Windows continues to simply identify it as "PCI Device" and says "there are no compatible drivers for this device." I can point it to the drivers I downloaded manually, but it fails, saying "Windows could not find driver software for your device."

In both the case of the epiphan drivers and the sknet drivers, they claim to install successfully through the installer, but the problem remains.

Any idea what the problem could be, or if there's any way to fix it?

What does it actually say on the card/chips? Should be fairly easy to figure out what brand it is.

Sounds like there's been some mistake though. If it only has an HDMI-port then it's clearly not the same card listed on eBay since the photographed card has a DVI-port which is what you need to capture RGB.

 

[Peltz]

Here you go. Disregard PQ as I was trying to demonstrate game dimensions while making sure the TV's thick bezel didn't blend in as part of the screen and make the game appear even smaller. Both samples below are 720x480 scaled to 1440x960 on a 1080p TV.

Wii set to 4:3 - proportions are correct

Wii set to 16:9 - proportions too narrow, meant for a TV to scale to 1920x1080 or equivalent widescreen res. A horizontal stretch from 720x480 to 854x480 would also fix proportions but I don't have any hardware that can do this.

The 4:3 looks good. Those borders aren't too large either.

How do games that force anamorphic widescreen in 4:3 mode look? Like Xenoblade or NSMB for example?

Too bad you can't take advantage of widescreen without degrading the picture quality. Wii really is kind of a nightmare for people who care about video quality - so many compromises to keep costs down. It's both my favorite system of all time as well as the hardest to make look right.

 

[dubc35]

Someone in this thread mentioned there was an OSSC compatibility list.

Here's the thread, link to Google spreadsheet in the OP. It's by no means exhaustive but a good reference given it's just users reporting.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

It's real deal 480p. There's an enormous amount of documentation about how it works online, especially if you go digging for SDK documentation.

Any links to get started? The Wii's video encoding is really interesting.

Edit - also, to anyone who has Gamecube component cables and the necessary hardware: would it be possible to make a direct capture comparison of a 480p GC game in both 4:3 and wide-screen settings, on both GC and Wii (F-Zero GX maybe)? It would be so great to have a proper comparison beyond the questionable RetroRGB "comparison" and awful Adam Koralik videos.

 

[speedlolita]

Anyone listened to the latest Bombcast (466)?

Peter Brown is talking about a Sony KV-1311CR and mentions that he found out about the European version which had a direct SCART input in the side, stating that the pics he saw had a PS1 plugged directly in. I'm certain that he's referring to my KX-14CP1 and pics I posted on here that do the rounds on the internet.

Put a smile on my face at least.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Any links to get started? The Wii's video encoding is really interesting.

Dolphin emulator blog and dolphin bug tracker are good resources. If you're looking for something specific you can use google's URL filter with some keywords.

I'm not sure what happened to the link from my last post but that forum link had pretty much everything on how the video output works... and archive.org doesn't have an archive of it.

I also don't know if OK to share links for SDK docs here.

Anyone listened to the latest Bombcast (466)?

Peter Brown is talking about a Sony KV-1311CR and mentions that he found out about the European version which had a direct SCART input in the side, stating that the pics he saw had a PS1 plugged directly in. I'm certain that he's referring to my KX-14CP1 and pics I posted on here that do the rounds on the internet.

Put a smile on my face at least.

Are they getting into RGB? MLIG mentioned on twitter that GB talked about their videos during a premium stream as well.

What time in the bombcast are they talking about that? It's a bit too long for me to listen to any more.

 

[speedlolita]

Are they getting into RGB? MLIG mentioned on twitter that GB talked about their videos during a premium stream as well.

What time in the bombcast are they talking about that? It's a bit too long for me to listen to any more.

They start right from the beginning actually. Drew was talking about ordering a Framemeister, so I think he's going down that rabbit hole.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

They start right from the beginning actually. Drew was talking about ordering a Framemeister, so I think he's going down that rabbit hole.

39:00 if anyone else wants to skip the crap.

 

[speedlolita]

Oh I didn't realise it was that far in. Apologies

 

[E_A_R_T_H]

Anyone listened to the latest Bombcast (466)?

Peter Brown is talking about a Sony KV-1311CR and mentions that he found out about the European version which had a direct SCART input in the side, stating that the pics he saw had a PS1 plugged directly in. I'm certain that he's referring to my KX-14CP1 and pics I posted on here that do the rounds on the internet.

Put a smile on my face at least.

Yeah, when I heard that earlier I thought it must be those pics! The KX-14CP1 has become my white whale since you posted them. Just love the design on that set. Saw one on ebay here in the UK last summer, but got beaten to it... Not seen another one surface since.

Every day that passes pushes me closer to a Framemeister...

 

[speedlolita]

Yeah, when I heard that earlier I thought it must be those pics! The KX-14CP1 has become my white whale since you posted them. Just love the design on that set. Saw one on ebay here in the UK last summer, but got beaten to it... Not seen another one surface since.

Every day that passes pushes me closer to a Framemeister...

I was informed that one sold recently on eBay. I went and checked and it went for £195+£15 shipping. Madness. Mine was £30 shipped... in 2013. Also saw a pair sell for about €70 in France which is what I'd expect to pay now tbh.

I used to be an advocate of CRTs for gaming because they were the pure experience but now everyone is after good sets and the prices have gone through the roof. It's ridiculous! No way I'd pay over £50 for a set.

 

[Mega]

The 4:3 looks good. Those borders aren't too large either.

How do games that force anamorphic widescreen in 4:3 mode look? Like Xenoblade or NSMB for example?

You mean how do games look in 4:3 when they don't have a true 4:3 res? I haven't checked yet but someone earlier said it's letterboxed like the example on the left:

Too bad you can't take advantage of widescreen without degrading the picture quality.

Yeah, impossible unless a future mod grabs directly from the framebuffer and the user has complete control of the upscaling. Like sheepy's post stated, GC/Wii has a 640x520 framebuffer. The encoder does an iffy job of converting that to component and stretching it to 720px wide, then your TV again does a likely questionable job of scaling it to 16:9 (854x480, 1820x720, 1366x768, 1920x1080). My setup only stops the last part. I'm a day 1 buyer of a solution that eliminates both of those last two steps.

FYI, Guilty Gear output is 640x480 and therefore the picture doesn't go through the step of being horizontally stretched by the encoder. From what I recall seeing it looks sharper than other Wii games. Probably comparable to Gamecube picture quality.

also, to anyone who has Gamecube component cables and the necessary hardware: would it be possible to make a direct capture comparison of a 480p GC game in both 4:3 and wide-screen settings, on both GC and Wii (F-Zero GX maybe)? It would be so great to have a proper comparison beyond the questionable RetroRGB "comparison" and awful Adam Koralik videos.

Madao had a good direct capture comparison in the old thread of Metroid Prime that quality-wise went GC > Wii >>> Wii U. The RetroRGB comparison is an exaggeration. His offscreen Wii picture is clearly out of focus. The difference is noticeable on a HDTV but negligible on a CRT.

 

[Kawika]

Here's the thread, link to Google spreadsheet in the OP. It's by no means exhaustive but a good reference given it's just users reporting.

Well it looks like the Samsung 6300 is out. The previous year of the other model tv I was going to get the 800D is supported. Looks like Sony's tvs are pretty good at these oddball ossc output specs. Also its good to know my old samsung is on the list and I have no intention of getting rid of that tv and it supports 3x too.

Thank you!

 

[linko9]

What does it actually say on the card/chips? Should be fairly easy to figure out what brand it is.

Sounds like there's been some mistake though. If it only has an HDMI-port then it's clearly not the same card listed on eBay since the photographed card has a DVI-port which is what you need to capture RGB.

No, the one I have does only have a DVI port, which is why its so odd that the Device ID is for this other HDMI capture card. Anyway, at this point I'm fairly certain the card is just broken, I've tried everything I can think of.

 

[Peltz]

Any final thoughts on FBX palette before I pull the trigger? I am leaning towards it for my RGB mod.

 

[hutna]

Tried a search but couldn't find anything in the thread. Forgive me if this has been asked before.

What component cables do you folks recommend for a NTSC Wii? I have a couple 3rd party cables that are giving me issues. I'm willing to buy 1st party ones if they are the only ones that work reliably, but if there is a cheaper option that folks here have used with success I'd like to hear about it.

 

[Triforce141]

Anyone know a good place online to get an SNES Mini installed with RGB, I'm considering doing business with someone on Ebay for this process?

Also have no skill in soldering btw

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Baphomet (spelling?) on here does it, you could also look for Voultar on twitter.

 

[Mega]

Any final thoughts on FBX palette before I pull the trigger? I am leaning towards it for my RGB mod.

NESRGB mods can now be ordered with custom palettes flashed? I'm just reading about this (http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html) for the first time and it looks very promising. Seems like it's a lot more accurate than the three default palettes. I say go for it.

What component cables do you folks recommend for a NTSC Wii? I have a couple 3rd party cables that are giving me issues. I'm willing to buy 1st party ones if they are the only ones that work reliably, but if there is a cheaper option that folks here have used with success I'd like to hear about it.

Official component cables. May as well stop buying knockoffs if they're giving you problems. I have official cable for my HDTV-connected Wii but Monoprice cables for my original Wii on CRT. No problems but I can't recommend them because they were bought years ago and I have no idea what you would be getting today, if they're the same or different.

 

[dubc35]

Baphomet (spelling?) on here does it, you could also look for Voultar on twitter.

I PM'd him a couple months ago inquiring about RGB modding a NES, no response.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

Tried a search but couldn't find anything in the thread. Forgive me if this has been asked before.

What component cables do you folks recommend for a NTSC Wii? I have a couple 3rd party cables that are giving me issues. I'm willing to buy 1st party ones if they are the only ones that work reliably, but if there is a cheaper option that folks here have used with success I'd like to hear about it.

I have a monoprice one bought in 2014, and a Madcatz one bought in 2007, neither have ever had any problems that I could tell. YMMV of course.

 

[NormalFish]

I actually find component cables are typically more reliable than more or less anything else I've invested in. I've used various crap component cables for my various consoles and while i might get a bit of audio buzz, picture quality doesn't seem to vary much at all.

 

[Peltz]

I'd go 1st party on component cables if you can. I think peace of mind is worth the $30. Otherwise, if you're like me, you'll constantly wonder whether the signal is being degraded by a cheap cable.

I'm glad HDMI doesn't have that issue.

 

[speedlolita]

I'd go 1st party on component cables if you can. I think peace of mind is worth the $30. Otherwise, if you're like me, you'll constantly wonder whether the signal is being degraded by a cheap cable.

I'm glad HDMI doesn't have that issue.

Yeah... I still buy cables of a certain quality though. My HDMI cables are made by Bluerigger. Sturdy construction but affordable. All my SCART leads are official, as are my component leads. All my peripherals are first party, OCD etc

 

[Triforce141]

Baphomet (spelling?) on here does it, you could also look for Voultar on twitter.

I found Voultar's website and ordered his SNES Mini RGB install service; waiting for an email response so I can send it off to him

 

[PumpkinSpice]

I'd go 1st party on component cables if you can. I think peace of mind is worth the $30. Otherwise, if you're like me, you'll constantly wonder whether the signal is being degraded by a cheap cable.

I'm glad HDMI doesn't have that issue.

HDMI does to an extent. The signaling is fairly clever to avoid issues like that (the design go to great lengths to make everything DC neutral, the TMDS encoding makes a lot of error correcting possible, etc) but at longer lengths and higher speeds (4k and whatever) you really need to start worrying about shielding the same way you do for analog cables.

I've also had issues with some dollar store cables I got not working correctly with my PS3 and only my PS3.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

I PM'd him a couple months ago inquiring about RGB modding a NES, no response.

oh no..... i was thinking of pm'ing him =(

 

[Bar81]

oh no..... i was thinking of pm'ing him =(

Something happened with him. Used to be super responsive - then just disappeared. Took me weeks of prodding to get back a couple of 1chips he was modding and even then he sent them back to me finally but never responded to my emails. Very strange as he's always been a stand up dude.

 

[Peltz]

HDMI does to an extent. The signaling is fairly clever to avoid issues like that (the design go to great lengths to make everything DC neutral, the TMDS encoding makes a lot of error correcting possible, etc) but at longer lengths and higher speeds (4k and whatever) you really need to start worrying about shielding the same way you do for analog cables.

I've also had issues with some dollar store cables I got not working correctly with my PS3 and only my PS3.

Yea, but if the signal degrades, you see actual artifacts and digital "errors" via HDMI. It's not color bleeding or subtle degradation of clarity. You'll know when you need a better cable.

 

[purdobol]

Yea, but if the signal degrades, you see actual artifacts and digital "errors" via HDMI. It's not color bleeding or subtle degradation of clarity. You'll know when you need a better cable.

It's actually quite interesting topic.
Have a botched HDMI cable that shows no signs of being broken when connected to HD TV. But when connected to PC monitor it shows quite a few "digital squares".

 

[televator]

Something happened with him. Used to be super responsive - then just disappeared. Took me weeks of prodding to get back a couple of 1chips he was modding and even then he sent them back to me finally but never responded to my emails. Very strange as he's always been a stand up dude.

I had a similar experience... probably worse, but he owned up to it in the end. So I never felt the need to blast him. I always felt weird about how apparently isolated my experience was compared to all the praise he got. It's cool though. If he satisfied other people's needs, I'm genuinely glad they got their money's worth.

 

[NormalFish]

He offered to sell me a chipped PS2 like a year ago or so, but when I asked him some follow up questions he just completely ignored me. I just figured he didn't really pay much attention to gaf.

 

[Mega]

I had a fine and pretty quick experience with sending him a AV Famicom for the NESRGB mod. Then he sold me a RGB N64 that had a green picture, sent it back and got it back repaired pretty fast.

I asked for a handheld mod after that and it was... a long process and didn't come together because of issues with multiple copies of the mod. He ended up offering a full refund so no foul. I admit I had to keep pressing for updates or else communication didn't happen. I cut him some slack because I learned he was going through some really serious personal stuff. He's still cool in my book... just needs to manage the balance between life, work and modding backlog a bit better.

 

[theSlacker]

I assumed something was going on in his life since I hadn't seen him post in a while. As for mod work, the stuff he did for me had an issue but he fixed it without any hassle. Also it was the nesrgb boards fault, nothing that he did wrong.