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[Pedro Motta]

That's completely fine for you to think its justified. It's also fine for others to think it isn't

Im sure with those feature updates on the one x, some people would have thought its not worth the upgrade over the PS4 pro?

What isn't justified is 600$ for a Series X.

 

[Ozriel]

What isn't justified is 600$ for a Series X.

That’s like arguing the price for the PS5 slim isn’t justified at $499.

It’s a $499 Series X + an extra 1TB. You’d spend more if you bought a regular series X at $499 and then paid $139 for a 1TB expansion card on Amazon.

Of course, people should be on the lookout for deals, and I’d expect discounts during Black Friday. But ‘unjustified’ is a stretch unless you have a grouse with the MSRP for the flagship consoles.

 

[chokotoureiki]

Probably.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were not hard to find. These systems should not be hard to find. The fact that you couldn't buy a PS5 for over two years was just a monumental failure, it's not the norm and should not have been.

Much like the Wii was a monumental failure when there was a severe drought that lasted for some time?

 

[onQ123]

$499 + 1TB = $599. With a disc drive

The real change is that Sony’s moved to looking for meaningful hardware margins on the Pro, not just break even.

I suspect much of this is tied to the decline of Xbox as a hardware competitor. With Sony’s profit margin declining in recent years, they have the leeway now to move from the aggressive pricing scheme they started with the PS4.

Has nothing to do with Xbox

The die haven't shrunk much since PS5 was released & the cost of manufacturing has actually gone up .

 

[diffusionx]

Much like the Wii was a monumental failure when there was a severe drought that lasted for some time?

you apparently struggle to read.

I said the failure was that this system was not on shelves and easy to purchase, not the system itself. Sony would say the same thing.

 

[MrTired]

You and many, many others have been mentioning how they have cancelled their Playstation direct orders. It seems a considerable amount of sales have just shifted from one seller to another.

Ancedotal evidence ≠ market at large.

 

[onQ123]

That’s like arguing the price for the PS5 slim isn’t justified at $499.

It’s a $499 Series X + an extra 1TB. You’d spend more if you bought a regular series X at $499 and then paid $139 for a 1TB expansion card on Amazon.

Of course, people should be on the lookout for deals, and I’d expect discounts during Black Friday. But ‘unjustified’ is a stretch unless you have a grouse with the MSRP for the flagship consoles.

You just said a few posts ago that PS5 + 1TB was $599 but for Xbox you valued that same 1TB extra at $139

 

[sainraja]

This is a pro console, an optional upgrade for the PS5 and we already have some people here hoping it fails long-term (moving goalposts or not)—like why? Yes, the price is $700 but given the type of responses I am seeing from these individuals (not everyone, but there are some here), the price could have been $600 and their narrative wouldn't change that much.

I hope it does well simply so we keep getting mid-gen upgrades as I like having the option to do so, specially if it is going to be a long generation.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This is a pro console, an optional upgrade for the PS5 and we already have some people here hoping it fails long-term (moving goalposts or not)—like why? Yes, the price is $700 but given the type of responses I am seeing from these individuals (not everyone, but there are some here), the price could have been $600 and their narrative wouldn't change that much.

I hope it does well simply so we keep getting mid-gen upgrades as I like having the option to do so, specially if it is going to be a long generation.

I love getting the power boost mid gen upgrades provide

If I am being honest I would love to see an option for even a larger power boost, give me a $2000 upgrade option

 

[Ozriel]

You just said a few posts ago that PS5 + 1TB was $599 but for Xbox you valued that same 1TB extra at $139

Yes. I’m using prices in the market today. On Amazon, the Xbox expansion card is $139.

On Amazon, 1TB samsung 980 pro or WD 750x PCIe 4 SSDs cost around $79, going up to $100 with heatsinks.

Why do I have to explain something this basic to you? 4 years in the gen and you still don’t know the differences between the storage expansion systems used by the PS5 and the Xbox Series?

 

[onQ123]

Yes. I’m using prices in the market today. On Amazon, the Xbox expansion card is $139.

On Amazon, 1TB samsung 980 pro or WD 750x PCIe 4 SSDs cost around $79, going up to $100 with heatsinks.

Why do I have to explain something this basic to you? 4 years in the gen and you still don’t know the differences between the storage expansion systems used by the PS5 and the Xbox Series?

The extra 1TB in the Xbox isn't a expansion card.

 

[Ozriel]

This is a pro console, an optional upgrade for the PS5 and we already have some people here hoping it fails long-term (moving goalposts or not)—like why? Yes, the price is $700 but given the type of responses I am seeing from these individuals (not everyone, but there are some here), the price could have been $600 and their narrative wouldn't change that much.

I hope it does well simply so we keep getting mid-gen upgrades as I like having the option to do so, specially if it is going to be a long generation.

I don’t believe I’ve seen posts here hoping it fails.
People are sharing opinions on the price and the current sales performance. I think it’s priced a bit too high for a digital only console, but I’ve got my preorder in at Amazon.

I also think the price is having an impact on sales. Not sure why people are getting extremely defensive about sales numbers. I don’t recall people being this prickly when we were debating the value proposition of the RTX4080 (which I also bought, despite being unamused about the price).

 

[Ozriel]

The extra 1TB in the Xbox isn't a expansion card.

Yes, Captain Obvious. We know.

MS is making something on top of this from volume purchase, but it’s still landing in the market at an MSRP less than anyone buying the regular XSX at full price, then getting a 1TB expansion.

It’s an entirely different conversation if the price is wise, since they really should be considering price cuts to try to stimulate sales.

 

[sainraja]

I also think the price is having an impact on sales. Not sure why people are getting extremely defensive about sales numbers. I don’t recall people being this prickly when we were debating the value proposition of the RTX4080 (which I also bought, despite being unamused about the price).

People don't need a Pro to play PS5 games. They just need a PS5. Pro is completely optional and I don't think it needs to sell the same as a new product launch would have to sell to be successful. I just hope it sells well for the type of device it is so that we keep getting the option to upgrade. I am not saying price won't influence sales btw... I am just not making any predictions on that.

 

[SportsFan581]

What isn't justified is 600$ for a Series X.

I have to agree with you there. All the next gen systems should have gotten a storage upgrade for free at this point given that there have been no price reductions. SSD storage has gotten notably cheaper since these systems launched.

The fact that the consoles (4 year old tech at this point) are going up in price is a little ridiculous. You can't even use inflation because the rest of the tech market is not mirroring this behavior (4 year old CPUs and GPUs are not going up in price, etc.).

 

[SportsFan581]

Why is PS5 Pro still selling? Don't they know it's a much cheaper new Xbox Series X & Series S that released today?

I was told that new consoles always sell better.

Don't tell me you are trying to count a storage upgrade as a new product launch, LOL. Did you actually consider a 120G and 250G 360 separate products, and what about the cost reductions that happened on PS5 before the slim?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Despite positional ranking, demand looks relatively soft. Obviously that could change once the system actually becomes available. There are also question marks as to why it isn't available in Japan and why the base PS5s aren't available in Japan. My theory is stock is moving to China.

Obviously, Amazon isn't the only retailer to carry the ps5 pro, but seeing values like 1K+ and 3K+ don't suggest to me serious demand. Some countries are also below 1K sold on Amazon.

Another factor could be people waiting to do this in person so they can trade in their existing consoles easier. I myself may cancel my direct pre-order and do an in person trade in on or near launch day. It's just more convenient.

 

[mckmas8808]

I have to agree with you there. All the next gen systems should have gotten a storage upgrade for free at this point given that there have been no price reductions. SSD storage has gotten notably cheaper since these systems launched.

The fact that the consoles (4 year old tech at this point) are going up in price is a little ridiculous. You can't even use inflation because the rest of the tech market is not mirroring this behavior (4 year old CPUs and GPUs are not going up in price, etc.).

The cost to manufacture these consoles have gone up. We all know this as a fact.

Despite positional ranking, demand looks relatively soft. Obviously that could change once the system actually becomes available. There are also question marks as to why it isn't available in Japan and why the base PS5s aren't available in Japan. My theory is stock is moving to China.

Obviously, Amazon isn't the only retailer to carry the ps5 pro, but seeing values like 1K+ and 3K+ don't suggest to me serious demand. Some countries are also below 1K sold on Amazon.

Another factor could be people waiting to do this in person so they can trade in their existing consoles easier. I myself may cancel my direct pre-order and do an in person trade in on or near launch day. It's just more convenient.

How is demand soft? How are you judging the level of demand in the first place.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

How is demand soft? How are you judging the level of demand in the first place.

Read my second paragraph.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Another factor could be people waiting to do this in person so they can trade in their existing consoles easier. I myself may cancel my direct pre-order and do an in person trade in on or near launch day. It's just more convenient.

If anything, this is likely exactly what’s happening, so these numbers won’t even give a full scope of the situation.

 

[onQ123]

Don't tell me you are trying to count a storage upgrade as a new product launch, LOL. Did you actually consider a 120G and 250G 360 separate products, and what about the cost reductions that happened on PS5 before the slim?

The new Xbox models actually went through just as many changes as the PS5 Slim

 

[chokotoureiki]

you apparently struggle to read.

I said the failure was that this system was not on shelves and easy to purchase, not the system itself. Sony would say the same thing.

No I understand it clearly. Its just that your point makes no sense. What you described was exactly the Wii's situation before....not on shelves and easy to purchase, and this lasted for a while. I remember how it was in 2007 clear as day. If the PS5 was a failure bc of that situation before, then you would also have to apply the same thing to the Wii as well.

 

[diffusionx]

No I understand it clearly. Its just that your point makes no sense. What you described was exactly the Wii's situation before....not on shelves and easy to purchase, and this lasted for a while. I remember how it was in 2007 clear as day. If the PS5 was a failure bc of that situation before, then you would also have to apply the same thing to the Wii as well.

No, you don't understand. I said it was a failure of supplying and stocking shelves, not the system itself.

 

[Astray]

What are you basing Xbox One X sales on? Microsoft stop revealing sales numbers long before that.

Based on hopes and dreams I think.

We don't even have profit/loss figures for the entire gaming division. I think this blackholing of info is what's making MS's actions have an element of mystery to them.

If we knew the figures we'd have seen all these moves coming a while ago.

Lol. Even the most hardcore Xbox fanboys are pre-ordering this fucking thing.

If anyone assumes that the majority of remaining Xbox customer base is just going PC then they are mistaken imo.

Far more will be switching to either Sony or Nintendo vs going PC.

 

[Ozriel]

How is demand soft? How are you judging the level of demand in the first place.

It’s been stuck at 10k+ units sold on Amazon since Friday last week, so still in between 10k and 15k units.

The new Xbox models actually went through just as many changes as the PS5 Slim

The meaning of the word ‘slim’ hasn’t changed, last I checked.

 

[mckmas8808]

Read my second paragraph.

Yeah but one retailer during a pre-order period doesn't say much. We just don't have enough information to determine supply or demand yet.

 

[mckmas8808]

It’s been stuck at 10k+ units sold on Amazon since Friday last week, so still in between 10k and 15k units.

Okay.....and? How many PS5s overall would you assume would sell in America in October? If I told you 400k PS5s would sell in October would say that feels reasonable? Because if so I'm only expecting the PS5 Pro to do 15% of all PS5 sales during the launch window period and 10% overall throughout the generation.

15% of 400,000 is 60,000 PS5 Pros overall. So Amazon landing at 15K in America by the end of October seems reasonable to me. Considering others are buying it at other retailers in America and also through PS Direct.

 

[chokotoureiki]

No, you don't understand. I said it was a failure of supplying and stocking shelves, not the system itself.

Yes I do. What you claimed can be applicable to any system.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes I do. What you claimed can be applicable to any system.

no, you really do not. The PS5 is not a failure, but the fact that it was out of stock for two years was.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Yeah but one retailer during a pre-order period doesn't say much. We just don't have enough information to determine supply or demand yet.

Exactly! I'll repeat what I said yesterday Dragon Ball sold 3 million in 24 hrs all while only charting at #70 on Amazon....side note PS5 Slim is also at 10k + sold this month on Amazon we really can't read into anything from just one retailer.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah but one retailer during a pre-order period doesn't say much. We just don't have enough information to determine supply or demand yet.

It's pricisely what I said, it's one retailer (albeit a major one) but the numbers appear pretty soft. Even if you replicate these numbers at other retailers, they're not great numbers.

Less than 1K units in the UK. Let's say you have 10 other retailers, and that equals 10K. Let's say you double that with direct... that's 20K... that's not a great show of pre-launch demand.

Germany is at 3K+
France is at 400+
Spain is at 300+
Italy is at 500+
US is at 10K+
Brazil is at 1K+
Canada is at 2K+
Mexico is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
Japan is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
Australia is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
India doesn't seem to be offered yet (again theory on China prioritization)


If I had to guess, I'd say PS5 Pro is probably under 500K units globally right now in pre-orders and again that might not mean much, it might simply mean that people aren't interested in preordering a 700 dollar console but might still buy it at launch.

 

[XXL]

If I had to guess, I'd say PS5 Pro is probably under 500K units globally right now in pre-orders and again that might not mean much, it might simply mean that people aren't interested in preordering a 700 dollar console but might still buy it at launch.

You're actually making a great argument to why this is selling extremely well.

The base PS5 (between preorders and instore) sold around 2M consoles in 24HRS.

PS5 sold between 2.1 and 2.5 million units worldwide on day one, report claims

A new report looks at sales data from the two launch dates

www.gamesradar.com

If the PS5 Pro is doing 25% of that before launching in store....

That's absolutely amazing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Okay.....and? How many PS5s overall would you assume would sell in America in October? If I told you 400k PS5s would sell in October would say that feels reasonable? Because if so I'm only expecting the PS5 Pro to do 15% of all PS5 sales during the launch window period and 10% overall throughout the generation.

15% of 400,000 is 60,000 PS5 Pros overall. So Amazon landing at 15K in America by the end of October seems reasonable to me. Considering others are buying it at other retailers in America and also through PS Direct.

Technically PS5 Pro isn't launching until November. A pre-order isn't even a sale, but taking you at what you're saying and including pre-orders as part of the overall sales, no that would be pretty bad.

The PS5 Pro's best chance for selling significant units is at launch. It's not going to sell its average number of units in its launch month. It'll start big and then taper off probably until GTA6's launch window.

Sony's goal is probably to sell about 1.5-2 million PS5 Pros by the end of November globally. They need to sell about 3-4 million PS5s between launch and the end of the fiscal year to hit their forecast.

20% of PS5 sales in the fiscal year would put the PS5 Pro at 3.6 million units of their forecast. That sounds about right as far as a forecasted percentage would go for a launch console.

Exactly! I'll repeat what I said yesterday Dragon Ball sold 3 million in 24 hrs all while only charting at #70 on Amazon....side note PS5 Slim is also at 10k + sold this month on Amazon we really can't read into anything from just one retailer.

You can't buy PS5 Pros digitally and Amazon isn't getting DBZ sales on Steam, which are all digital.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's pricisely what I said, it's one retailer (albeit a major one) but the numbers appear pretty soft. Even if you replicate these numbers at other retailers, they're not great numbers.

Less than 1K units in the UK. Let's say you have 10 other retailers, and that equals 10K. Let's say you double that with direct... that's 20K... that's not a great show of pre-launch demand.

Germany is at 3K+
France is at 400+
Spain is at 300+
Italy is at 500+
US is at 10K+
Brazil is at 1K+
Canada is at 2K+
Mexico is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
Japan is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
Australia is out of stock so won't tell you the number, but this suggests a lack of stock
India doesn't seem to be offered yet (again theory on China prioritization)


If I had to guess, I'd say PS5 Pro is probably under 500K units globally right now in pre-orders and again that might not mean much, it might simply mean that people aren't interested in preordering a 700 dollar console but might still buy it at launch.

I'd say 500k sold on launch day would be an INCREDIBLE number. Am I taking crazy pills? What exactly were you expecting a mid-gen console to sell if 500k on launch day is soft?

 

[Ozriel]

Okay.....and? How many PS5s overall would you assume would sell in America in October? If I told you 400k PS5s would sell in October would say that feels reasonable? Because if so I'm only expecting the PS5 Pro to do 15% of all PS5 sales during the launch window period and 10% overall throughout the generation.

15% of 400,000 is 60,000 PS5 Pros overall. So Amazon landing at 15K in America by the end of October seems reasonable to me. Considering others are buying it at other retailers in America and also through PS Direct.

Surely even you should realize that selling 15% lifetime doesn’t mean 15% in its launch window?

Because there are tens of millions of PS5s in the U.S. at the moment. If the Pro were to be selling at 15% in the launch window forward, it’d surely end up in the 6% lifetime range.

Bruh.

 

[mckmas8808]

Surely even you should realize that selling 15% lifetime doesn’t mean 15% in its launch window?

Because there are tens of millions of PS5s in the U.S. at the moment. If the Pro were to be selling at 15% in the launch window forward, it’d surely end up in the 6% lifetime range.

Bruh.

I don't personally think it'll do 15% lifetime. The cost is just too high and the PS5 will 100% get a permanent price drop in 2025, whereas the PRO will not. I believe the PRO will sale 8-10% of PS5s lifetime sales. I do expect it to sell 15-20% in the launch window though. And I've always considered the launch window to be the first 3 months.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You're actually making a great argument to why this is selling extremely well.

The base PS5 (between preorders and instore) sold around 2M consoles in 24HRS.

PS5 sold between 2.1 and 2.5 million units worldwide on day one, report claims

A new report looks at sales data from the two launch dates

www.gamesradar.com

If the PS5 Pro is doing 25% of that before launching in store....

That's absolutely amazing.

First, I said under 500k, not 500K, but that's certainly one way of looking at it.

If Sony prepared 2 million units for launch with the expectations of selling 500K through launch day, you have to wonder about the stock allocation in Japan and Australia. It'll be really interesting to see where Sony is on pace with their forecast in their next earnings report and whether there is a vacuum of reporting out of China being hyperbolic, you could sell 5 million units in China in 2-3 months without anyone knowing about it until it was reported in financials.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'd say 500k sold on launch day would be an INCREDIBLE number. Am I taking crazy pills? What exactly were you expecting a mid-gen console to sell if 500k on launch day is soft?

I'm not sure how under 500K became 500K...

 

[chokotoureiki]

no, you really do not. The PS5 is not a failure, but the fact that it was out of stock for two years was.

No, I do, its just your point from the beginning was very incoherently made. If Sony failed, then so did Nintendo.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not sure how under 500K became 500K...

Because I'm factoring in additonal pre-orders between now and November 7th. Plus day one in-store purchases. I think we need to slow down and just start looking at the facts. If the PS5 sold around 2.3 million units on day one globally, there's zero percent chance anyone should say 500k globally for the PS5 Pro on day one is a bad number. That's 22% of what the PS5 did on day one. But at $700!!!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't personally think it'll do 15% lifetime. The cost is just too high and the PS5 will 100% get a permanent price drop in 2025, whereas the PRO will not. I believe the PRO will sale 8-10% of PS5s lifetime sales. I do expect it to sell 15-20% in the launch window though. And I've always considered the launch window to be the first 3 months.

I doubt either gets a price drop in 2025 and I guarantee you their prices will change in tandem.

At 10% of lifetime sales, if the PS5 sells 120 million units, that would mean the PS5 Pro sold 12 million units. 12 million units over 4-5 years is 2.4 to 3 million units per year. Presumably the most units would happen in its launch year as numbers tapper off.

That would mean by 2-2.5 years it should have peaked. So you're looking at probably 7-8 million units by then.

That's 3.5 to 4 million units per year for each of the first two years. The most of that happening in its first two holiday seasons.

In order to achieve that Sony absolutely has to hit like 2 million minimum this holiday season.

 

[diffusionx]

No, I do, its just your point from the beginning was very incoherently made. If Sony failed, then so did Nintendo.

No, because you claimed I was saying the system was a failure and trying to gotcha me about the Wii for some reason, like anyone gives a shit about the Wii lol. I never said such a thing.

Just admit you didn't get it, it's fine.

 

[LordOcidax]

I loved this thread because GAF never fails. Thread saved for the future .

 

[SportsFan581]

The new Xbox models actually went through just as many changes as the PS5 Slim

Where's the new form factor and all that? They seem to compare much more to the first 6nm PS5 but with a storage upgrade.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Because I'm factoring in additonal pre-orders between now and November 7th. Plus day one in-store purchases. I think we need to slow down and just start looking at the facts. If the PS5 sold around 2.3 million units on day one globally, there's zero percent chance anyone should say 500k globally for the PS5 Pro on day one is a bad number. That's 22% of what the PS5 did on day one. But at $700!!!

Re read what I said initially. I never said it couldn't shore up demand on launch day, what I said is demand currently in this pre-order phase, looks soft.

 

[mckmas8808]

I doubt either gets a price drop in 2025 and I guarantee you their prices will change in tandem.

At 10% of lifetime sales, if the PS5 sells 120 million units, that would mean the PS5 Pro sold 12 million units. 12 million units over 4-5 years is 2.4 to 3 million units per year. Presumably the most units would happen in its launch year as numbers tapper off.

That would mean by 2-2.5 years it should have peaked. So you're looking at probably 7-8 million units by then.

That's 3.5 to 4 million units per year for each of the first two years. The most of that happening in its first two holiday seasons.

In order to achieve that Sony absolutely has to hit like 2 million minimum this holiday season.

And this holiday season (globally) meaning this November and December right?

 

[mckmas8808]

I doubt either gets a price drop in 2025 and I guarantee you their prices will change in tandem.

At 10% of lifetime sales, if the PS5 sells 120 million units, that would mean the PS5 Pro sold 12 million units. 12 million units over 4-5 years is 2.4 to 3 million units per year. Presumably the most units would happen in its launch year as numbers tapper off.

That would mean by 2-2.5 years it should have peaked. So you're looking at probably 7-8 million units by then.

That's 3.5 to 4 million units per year for each of the first two years. The most of that happening in its first two holiday seasons.

In order to achieve that Sony absolutely has to hit like 2 million minimum this holiday season.

Hold on............I just realized something. We are saying two different things. You're saying a percentage of lifetime sales, I'm not! I'm saying the percentage of sales "STARTING" at the launch of the PS5 Pro and going forward. Two totally different set of numbers and expectations.

The PS4 Pro did 13-14% of PS4's lifetime sales (as of January 2020). No way the PS5 can do 10% of lifetime sales if you are starting the "lifetime" at the start of the PS5 lol. It simply costs too much.

 

[SportsFan581]

The cost to manufacture these consoles have gone up. We all know this as a fact.

That's the story all the big corporations love to sell. With the cost of memory reducing as drastically as it has since launch (both RAM and SSD), I still find it hard to believe they needed to raise the price outside of the currency conversions. Though maybe wage increases are responsible for it. Then you look over at the SteamDeck with it's much smaller production run (and the lessened buying power that comes with that) and they've doubled the storage and improved the screen on the top two models and quadrupled the storage on the cheapest one, without raising the price and in just a couple years. It's a crazy time for consumers when it comes to gaming.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And this holiday season (globally) meaning this November and December right?

Yes, this is why the PS5 Pro is coming out when it is coming out.

Hold on............I just realized something. We are saying two different things. You're saying a percentage of lifetime sales, I'm not! I'm saying the percentage of sales "STARTING" at the launch of the PS5 Pro and going forward. Two totally different set of numbers and expectations.

The PS4 Pro did 13-14% of PS4's lifetime sales (as of January 2020). No way the PS5 can do 10% of lifetime sales if you are starting the "lifetime" at the start of the PS5 lol. It simply costs too much.

If you think Sony would be happy with the PS5 Pro selling 6 million units lifetime... I believe you'd be mistaken, but I pointed that out with the idea that they would drop the base PS5 price but not the Pro. They'll be priced in tandem. I'd bet any amount of money on that.

 

[chokotoureiki]

No, because you claimed I was saying the system was a failure and trying to gotcha me about the Wii for some reason, like anyone gives a shit about the Wii lol. I never said such a thing.

Just admit you didn't get it, it's fine.

At this point you're just throwing words around haphazardly and being even more silly with your word usage. "Trtying to gotcha me?" Like, huh? That just shows you don't know how to make a point clearly. I can see you're getting more frustrated so you're just winging it with your words bc you cannot properly make a coherent point. You said in the beginning, "the fact that you couldn't find a PS5 on the shelf is a monumental failure," which is clearly nonsense bc you would have to apply the same argument to Nintendo. And no, you cannot ignore history.