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Right now, the PS5 Pro is the best selling console on Amazon

But it will be a proper next gen, making it the best place to play all multiplatform games inc. GTA6 which will release around same time. Re. High price, we don’t know anything about yet, so we need to wait and see.

Proper next gen is a buzzword used by fans/companies to try and salvage their market position after being decimated this gen

There’s no new massive node shrink in 2026 that can justify it being “proper next gen”

If it’s more powerful than Pro, it will be more expensive, and not be a generational leap
 
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Pallas

Member
Not to play this down but it’s a brand new console, and it’s not like it has much if any competition in the console space,. Did the PS4 Pro have a similar pattern when preorders went up?
 

pasterpl

Member
Proper next gen is a buzzword used by fans/companies to try and salvage their market position after being decimated this gen

There’s no new massive node shrink in 2026 that can justify it being “proper next gen”

If it’s more powerful than Pro, it will be more expensive, and not be a generational leap
I see, you are an expert on everything, but actually know nothing. You just make an assumption after just making an assumption without any proof.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Based on Amazon sales rankings, that this thread is talking about, drop by 91 positions in such a short time in UK is massive. Drop by 41 position in USA is also what I would call big. We don’t have specific numbers, but we have got top sellers rankings, and judging only on this there is a massive decline in demand. This is based on currently available data (which I agree is really limited). Didn’t hear a lot of complaining when people were claiming that it red hot when it was nr 1 on Amazon (again, without any numbers, but purely on place top sellers rankings).

Common sense says a $700 console wasn't going to stay at the top of that list. I said that in my very first post in this thread. Coming in later, after the inevitable drop happens, is a bit opportunistic.

Pro isn't going to maintain that level at its price, but initially the sales are good.

Fact is the thing is in the top 40 and this isn't even a console that anyone is actually going to get for a couple of weeks. So out of all the consoles, only the Pro is one that you have to wait on and yet it is second right now in sales over Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, Switch and PS5 DE, all consoles that would be delivered in a few days. Those consoles are getting beat by a $700 console. Show me the posts that saw that coming.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
In a discussion forum, people aren’t allowed to speculate on sales performance of this relatively pricey console without being heckled?

Some of the commentary around the speculation is quite weird. We had similar threads discussing the price impact on PSVR2 sales and I don’t recall people getting this defensive.

It IS different from the PS4 Pro. That launched at $399

This is $699. More, if you factor in a disc drive.

That’s the whole entire point. The price makes this one to watch.



It is way too early to call it a flop. But it does seem clear that demand seems to be tailing off. Of course it’ll spike back up when there are reviews and the product actually launches…
Effing great posts.

This is the first ever mainstream console that is 700 pounds without a disk drive.

i remember hearing a podcast more than a year ago where everyones favourite Arthur Gies made a guess that he thought people were being far too conservative with the 499 mumber and he could see it being 650 dollars. The guy got ripped by so many and the Internet at large.

Here we are at 700 with no disk drive. Im super inyerested to see how this console performs.

this isnt the manufacturer of 3do etc. Its sony bringing an expensive as shit xonsole to market. They are rhe market leader so no better gauge on checking how the public accepts it.


How did psvr2 do on the rankings a month before launch?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
The proof is in the technology. There’s nothing in two years that’s going to magically decrease the chip and power consumption.

A generational leap is at least 4X compared to the base consoles. 48TF is a pipe dream in 2026

Excuse Me Reaction GIF by One Chicago

Why in the hell would it be 4x the base consoles when the ps5 didn't even launch with twice the tf power of the xbox one x?
 

pasterpl

Member
Fact is the thing is in the top 40 and this isn't even a console that anyone is actually going to get for a couple of weeks. So out of all the consoles, only the Pro is one that you have to wait on and yet it is second right now in sales over Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, Switch and PS5 DE, all consoles that would be delivered in a few days. Those consoles are getting beat by a $700 console. Show me the posts that saw that coming.
In USA only. In The UK it outsold by Switch and all Xbox series consoles.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Proper next gen is a buzzword used by fans/companies to try and salvage their market position after being decimated this gen

There’s no new massive node shrink in 2026 that can justify it being “proper next gen”

If it’s more powerful than Pro, it will be more expensive, and not be a generational leap
It will be a nice CPU bump and price will be key, likely high on one sku
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Huh?

Why are you comparing a late mid gen refresh? Makes zero sense. Generations are compared to base consoles

Also different architectures, ps5 absolutely is 2x the One X

I think if you think in 4 years sony are going to come to market with a 48 tf console you are in for a rude awakening imo.

Maybe that bullshit 32tf number they are giving to Pro.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Proper next gen is a buzzword used by fans/companies to try and salvage their market position after being decimated this gen

There’s no new massive node shrink in 2026 that can justify it being “proper next gen”

If it’s more powerful than Pro, it will be more expensive, and not be a generational leap

If a next gen console went with 3d cache or something similar. Even a later gen cpu it is completely next gen vs what we have today.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I think if you think in 4 years sony are going to come to market with a 48 tf console you are in for a rude awakening imo.

Maybe that bullshit 32tf number they are giving to Pro.

The problem is comparing teraflops across generations in the first place.

Doesn't matter who is "giving" the Pro that "bullshit 32tf number" when Sony comes out and explicitly says it is a 45% increase.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Amazon just updated my delivery date to November 11th.
Complete BS, for a product i ordered in the second hour of availability.

Hopefully this is something that gets changed before release
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Amazon just updated my delivery date to November 11th.
Complete BS, for a product i ordered in the second hour of availability.

Hopefully this is something that gets changed before release

That sucks. One of the reasons I changed my order at Best Buy to in store pick up. Fear of shipping snafus.
 

ap_puff

Banned
I see, you are an expert on everything, but actually know nothing. You just make an assumption after just making an assumption without any proof.
Even if the specs are "proper next gen" (lol this is 'full rdna2' all over again, please learn from history already) there is not a single proper next gen game to take advantage of that hardware.
 
It will be a nice CPU bump and price will be key, likely high on one sku
No doubt, but the CPU bump is the one component that can be a much larger leap than PS5 Pro (or Xbox Series X), but people vastly overestimate the impact the CPU will have on gaming. By far the biggest visual leaps will occur on the GPU side of things, and there's not going to be a generational leap in 2026.

I think if you think in 4 years sony are going to come to market with a 48 tf console you are in for a rude awakening imo.

Maybe that bullshit 32tf number they are giving to Pro.

If a next gen console went with 3d cache or something similar. Even a later gen cpu it is completely next gen vs what we have today.

I expect that with IPC gains, better architecture, and intended for a smaller node size the PS6 will get close to 40TF compared to Base PS5. But again it's hard to compare TFlops over time due to changes in architecture and how they measure TFlops, but yeah I expect pretty close to a 4X leap.

By 2028, TSMC expects 1.4nm vs 7nm for base PS5.

7/1.4 = 5X the potential leap. Costs/power may impact this to be lower than 5X, and I'm not sure if they'll go with 1.4nm or not. But that sort of technology is NOT on the table for 2026.
 

ap_puff

Banned
No doubt, but the CPU bump is the one component that can be a much larger leap than PS5 Pro (or Xbox Series X), but people vastly overestimate the impact the CPU will have on gaming. By far the biggest visual leaps will occur on the GPU side of things, and there's not going to be a generational leap in 2026.





I expect that with IPC gains, better architecture, and intended for a smaller node size the PS6 will get close to 40TF compared to Base PS5. But again it's hard to compare TFlops over time due to changes in architecture and how they measure TFlops, but yeah I expect pretty close to a 4X leap.

By 2028, TSMC expects 1.4nm vs 7nm for base PS5.

7/1.4 = 5X the potential leap. Costs/power may impact this to be lower than 5X, and I'm not sure if they'll go with 1.4nm or not. But that sort of technology is NOT on the table for 2026.
Bro you did not just take 7nm, divide it by 1.4nm, and take that to be the performance improvement...
 

TheGrat1

Member
For comparison sake: The 60 Gb PlayStation 3 retailed at $938.38 adjusted for inflation at launch.
 
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It's been a long time since the node names meant anything other than for marketing purposes.

Um, what? Marketing purposes? Not at all.

Shrinking the amount of transistors that you can fit on a die is like the furthest thing from marketing, the only progress we are making is largely by node shrinks, other than advances in AI so you don't have to waste as much compute.

PS4 was 28nm at launch (1.84TF). PS5 was 7nm at launch (10TF). This is when teraflops were more closely aligned. There's some additional improvements in architecture.

28/7 =4X

10/1.84 = 5.43X

So, the leap is not too far removed from the node shrink. I believe PS5 also consumes more power than base PS4, so they had to increase the power draw to get to a larger increase in TF compared to the node shrink alone. Which was my main point. Nothing in 2026 screams another large shrink to allow a "true" next-gen console.
 
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Welp, I cave. I went ahead and pre order it yesterday. Was kinda surprised that I could. Someone I knew looking for a ps5, told them I sale them mine. So it like, only costing me half. In other words I wouldn’t have gotten it. But now I’m really excited to replay ff7 ReMake and Rebirth for sure. I’m ready for part 3.
 

ap_puff

Banned
Um, what? Marketing purposes? Not at all.

Shrinking the amount of transistors that you can fit on a die is like the furthest thing from marketing, the only progress we are making is largely by node shrinks, other than advances in AI so you don't have to waste as much compute.

PS4 was 28nm at launch (1.84TF). PS5 was 7nm at launch (10TF). This is when teraflops were more closely aligned. There's some additional improvements in architecture.

28/7 =4X

10/1.84 = 5.43X

So, the leap is not too far removed from the node shrink. I believe PS5 also consumes more power than base PS4, so they had to increase the power draw to get to a larger increase in TF compared to the node shrink alone. Which was my main point. Nothing in 2026 screams another large shrink to allow a "true" next-gen console.

gtjtB18.png

DctQhzL.jpeg


source

From 7nm to 2nm (projected) TSMC expects an 80% increase in performance. Performance doesn't scale linearly with transistor density or node size.
 
gtjtB18.png

DctQhzL.jpeg


source

From 7nm to 2nm (projected) TSMC expects an 80% increase in performance. Performance doesn't scale linearly with transistor density or node size.

Doesn’t need to. I even stated as such, add back IPC improvements and add potentially more power consumption and you can get there. It was just a rough measure, and if anything, only proves my point more correct that diminishing returns means a “generational leap” Xbox is impossible in 2026
 

ap_puff

Banned
Obviously, AMD don't have hardware for this. They can only increase power with energy. I don't think we will see console with big ass 300W GPU.

Even Nvidia next gen GPUs are going to use more power than ada, they can't increase power efficiency on currently available nods while also increasing performance.
Yeah that's the thing. Console form factor and BOM cost reduction pressures exist. Sure theoretically you could make the PS6 draw 600w and have 5090 performance, but then you're talking about a massive chip, massive cooling, massive PSU, massive weight increase (higher shipping costs)...you're gonna be paying $1000+ for the thing. And if Sony isn't taking losses, maybe more.
 

pasterpl

Member
Even if the specs are "proper next gen" (lol this is 'full rdna2' all over again, please learn from history already) there is not a single proper next gen game to take advantage of that hardware.
Let’s be serious, times where we get a big AAA next-gen exclusives at launch are well past us, first 2-4 years of next xbox and ps6 will be mostly cross gen for games that are expensive to develop. We might get some next gen enhanced titles (remasters, remakes) like PS5 had, but jump to next gen will not be huge, look now - we are looking at games rendering at less than 1080p and being upscaled, lots of 30fps games if go quality/fidelity over performance mode (even on PS5Pro). Graphical improvements this gen from previous gen (ps4, Xbox one) are visible, but they don’t look gen apart (like we are used to seeing), there are almost no new gameplay concept, everybody forgot about environmental destructions that imo. can take a game to next level if implemented correctly. We are getting games that look little bit prettier than previous gen for most gamers, unless you play with FPS counter and zooming 10x, while entering photo mode every couple of minutes. We have got UE5 which current gen consoles are struggling with, we have got bullshit RT on console (yes, it is there in some titles but might as well be removed - wish for proper path tracing on sonsoles one day - do it properly or don’t do it all if it affects performance).
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
No doubt, but the CPU bump is the one component that can be a much larger leap than PS5 Pro (or Xbox Series X), but people vastly overestimate the impact the CPU will have on gaming. By far the biggest visual leaps will occur on the GPU side of things, and there's not going to be a generational leap in 2026.





I expect that with IPC gains, better architecture, and intended for a smaller node size the PS6 will get close to 40TF compared to Base PS5. But again it's hard to compare TFlops over time due to changes in architecture and how they measure TFlops, but yeah I expect pretty close to a 4X leap.

By 2028, TSMC expects 1.4nm vs 7nm for base PS5.

7/1.4 = 5X the potential leap. Costs/power may impact this to be lower than 5X, and I'm not sure if they'll go with 1.4nm or not. But that sort of technology is NOT on the table for 2026.

Doesn’t need to. I even stated as such, add back IPC improvements and add potentially more power consumption and you can get there. It was just a rough measure, and if anything, only proves my point more correct that diminishing returns means a “generational leap” Xbox is impossible in 2026

We are getting into the weeds a bit but let's just say microsoft go for a 999 costing box for their next gen system that's a pc hybrid and runs steam etc. Then two years later sony goes with a 599 baseline console. There is very much a possible reality that the pc/Xbox is as still more powerful.
 
We are getting into the weeds a bit but let's just say microsoft go for a 999 costing box for their next gen system that's a pc hybrid and runs steam etc. Then two years later sony goes with a 599 baseline console. There is very much a possible reality that the pc/Xbox is as still more powerful.

It’s not possible at the price range you mentioned.

$700 is PS5 Pro cost, and Sony is much better than MS at designing consoles that are cheap to make. They are an electronics company and source many of their own components as well as manufacturing.

Microsoft must outsource all of that.

For the next Xbox in 2026 to be more powerful than a 2028 PS6, have hardware based on an older node/architecture, AND only cost $300 more than a PS5 Pro is an absolute fantasy. You may get one, you can’t get all three.

To do what you are suggesting (be more powerful than PS6 two years earlier on an outdated node/architecture), you will basically need 5090 level hardware and power consumption, which means a multi-thousand dollar console.

Use some common sense because what you suggested is not plausible.
 

pasterpl

Member
It will be a nice CPU bump and price will be key, likely high on one sku
We are getting into the weeds a bit but let's just say microsoft go for a 999 costing box for their next gen system that's a pc hybrid and runs steam etc. Then two years later sony goes with a 599 baseline console. There is very much a possible reality that the pc/Xbox is as still more powerful.
I am expecting nice CPU bump, with big dedicated NPU (Ms is investing heavily in the AI space incl. devices focused on AI integration) and AI used beyond upscaling. GPU - I am expecting RDNA6. (RDNA4 top cards will apparently will be a level of 4080, as AMD decided to chase Nvidia with improved RT and frame generation instead of straight power increase, so not expecting big leap until RDNA6).

Next gen performance will be established by cost, if MS goes with upgradable hybrid that it more expansive (let say $999) at launch than PS6 is released 1.5-2 years later (at $599) next Xbox will still be more powerful than PS6. Expect both to be on 2nm node.
 
Next gen performance will be established by cost, if MS goes with upgradable hybrid that it more expansive (let say $999) at launch than PS6 is released 1.5-2 years later (at $599) next Xbox will still be more powerful than PS6. Expect both to be on 2nm node.

Why would both be 2nm when 1.4nm will be mass produced in 2027?

And why would architecture improvements not advance in two years?

This is all wishful thinking to expect PS6 to not come out more powerful than a two year old console, even if it did launch originally at a higher price, that’s not how technological progress works
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
It’s not possible at the price range you mentioned.

$700 is PS5 Pro cost, and Sony is much better than MS at designing consoles that are cheap to make. They are an electronics company and source many of their own components as well as manufacturing.

Microsoft must outsource all of that.

For the next Xbox in 2026 to be more powerful than a 2028 PS6, have hardware based on an older node/architecture, AND only cost $300 more than a PS5 Pro is an absolute fantasy. You may get one, you can’t get all three.

To do what you are suggesting (be more powerful than PS6 two years earlier on an outdated node/architecture), you will basically need 5090 level hardware and power consumption, which means a multi-thousand dollar console.

Use some common sense because what you suggested is not plausible.

This is categorically false.

The ps5 was cheaper because they went with a narrow design.

The ps5 pro is a large apu.

We have no idea what the legit BOM of these boxes is so let's please not argue over unknowns.

All we can do is see how it shakes out.

With solid ai upscalers the power argument goes even more out the window. Just look at the ps5 pro and pssr
 

ap_puff

Banned
Why would both be 2nm when 1.4nm will be mass produced in 2027?

And why would architecture improvements not advance in two years?

This is all wishful thinking to expect PS6 to not come out more powerful than a two year old console, even if it did launch originally at a higher price, that’s not how technological progress works
Most likely reason would be cost. There's even a possibility they'll both fab on 3nm. Right now 3nm wafers are ~$18,000, 2nm was expected to cost $25,000 but now costs $30,000 (and reportedly getting another 10% price hike next year), and apparently 1.4nm is rumored to cost an estimated $50,000 per wafer. You're not getting 3x performance from going from 3nm to 1.4nm. We'll have to see how much extra 3nm/2nm supply comes online with TSMC's arizona fab which is supposed to finish in 2028, but it's still going to be expensive no matter what.
 

pasterpl

Member
They are an electronics company and source many of their own components as well as manufacturing.
Both Xbox series and PS uses:

CPU and GPU - AMD
Memory - Micron
SSDs - Western Digital

So what is left? Cooling, PSU, disc drive?

Sony and MS do some customisation on these but these are done while working with manufacturer.
 
Both Xbox series and PS uses:

CPU and GPU - AMD
Memory - Micron
SSDs - Western Digital

So what is left? Cooling, PSU, disc drive?

Sony and MS do some customisation on these but these are done while working with manufacturer.

Yes all that miscellaneous stuff and assembly cost adds up significantly, not to mention economies of scale for volume buys of components

A 2026 high priced Xbox will be much more niche than a mainstream PS6
 

ap_puff

Banned
Both Xbox series and PS uses:

CPU and GPU - AMD
Memory - Micron
SSDs - Western Digital

So what is left? Cooling, PSU, disc drive?

Sony and MS do some customisation on these but these are done while working with manufacturer.
I do think Sony is more efficient at whatever process they have for manufacturing consoles, unless Microsoft was lying (highly unlikely) they attested to losing $100-200 per console during the FTC/ABK stuff, at that point I'm pretty sure Sony had already said they were breaking even on consoles. Even if the Series X has more expensive components it's hard to see $100 more in material costs, so either they're not getting as good contracts or somehow Sony has optimized their production to cut a significant amount of cost.
 

pasterpl

Member
Why would both be 2nm when 1.4nm will be mass produced in 2027?
Cost — BOM
And why would architecture improvements not advance in two years?
Because it usually between 1-3 years for this to change, latest is more expensive.
This is all wishful thinking to expect PS6 to not come out more powerful than a two year old console, even if it did launch originally at a higher price, that’s not how technological progress works
It is all depended on the target release price of PS6.
 

pasterpl

Member
I do think Sony is more efficient at whatever process they have for manufacturing consoles, unless Microsoft was lying (highly unlikely) they attested to losing $100-200 per console during the FTC/ABK stuff, at that point I'm pretty sure Sony had already said they were breaking even on consoles. Even if the Series X has more expensive components it's hard to see $100 more in material costs, so either they're not getting as good contracts or somehow Sony has optimized their production to cut a significant amount of cost.
I think that Sony might have simply went with higher initial contracts and showed much better sales from last gen to get better prices.
 

Three

Gold Member
Both Xbox series and PS uses:

CPU and GPU - AMD
Memory - Micron
SSDs - Western Digital

So what is left? Cooling, PSU, disc drive?

Sony and MS do some customisation on these but these are done while working with manufacturer.
The PS5 SSD isn't WD. It's KIOXIA chips with a Sony SSD controller. At least it is on the launch PS5. I don't think it's changed since then.
 
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