Rottenwatch: TRANSFORMERS Revenge of the Fallen
- Thread starter DevelopmentArrested
- Start date
- Status
NutJobJim said:
I'm so sick of hearing this. Yeah, there's no possible way an intellectual sci-fi film based on a toy commercial about giant cybernetic aliens could ever work. Just like a an intellectual crime drama film based on a comic book about a millionaire playboy who dresses up as a flying rodent could never work.
It's a fucking cop-out, and it's why we get shit like Batman & Robin.
Snaku said:
Well lets be fair.....the 80's show was the toy commercial, after that, at least in the US, while Hasbro has a lot of say, its not really an ad for the toys anymore. It does help promote the name however. Transformers actually has a very good SciFi story, if they could break loose from Hasbro and make a real series.
JimiNutz
Banned
Snaku said:
Batman is much more than a millionaire that dresses up as a rodent though. Insanity, fear, murder etc. are all explored in the comics so it's easy to see how they could make a serious Batman movie.
As far as I'm aware Tranformers has always been about big robots fighting, it doesn't get much more complicated or 'deep' than that. Forgive me if I'm wrong and there is actually a deep serious story behind the franchise, I know very little about it.
Sapiens said:
Look at the comics and the overal mythos, and tell me theres no story. There a lot more than just the 80's cartoon and these movies.
And theres a difference between the 80's show bein an ad, and these movies. The 80's show was based off everything Takara had a toy of that hasbro wanted to bring over. What makes Batman/Super/X-men/Spiderman different from being an ad for the comics and toys?
Binabik15 said:
Tyler Perry movies, box office:
Madea Goes to Jail: $90mil
Meet the Browns: $41mil
Why Did I Get Married: $55mil
Madea's Family Reunion: $63mil
Obviously Tyler Perry movies were all funnier than Observe and Report, Pineapple Express, and Zack & Miri Make a Porno since they made more money.
http://www.movieline.com/2009/06/th...cts-of-transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen.php
Bishoptl's movie of the year
Bishoptl's movie of the year
jimmbow said:
Pretty much if it has a good backstory or hell if writing for anything is the least bit good it makes for good story. G.I. Joe had comic story everyone liked and I liked transformers comic stories (though I only read the G2 series).
Well everyone should try to enjoy the movie and not focus on the stupid product placements. I didn't....well I tried not to pay attention to it in the first movie.
Bay really makes it hard not to focus on them:G-Fex said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeVQwomIgjs
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Snaku said:
Agreed completely.
A live-action Transformers movie COULD work really well. Overly-elaborate designs and all. Heck, Shia LaBeoff could still be the main character and it could still be good. If done right, of course.
It doesn't need to be high art. But it doesn't have to pander to the low demographics to succeed, either.
It just needs a better visionary and better direction.
Heh.Binabik15 said:
Then why bring up how well a movie does in the box office if nothing than to say "But the masses liked it!"
It still doesn't make it a good film. You need to separate the two. I also don't need to conform to the majority's opinion. I can appreciate Michael Bay movies when I need to zone out, but if I want to be thoroughly entertained beyond my visual senses, I'll go seek a movie that is both entertaining visually and stimulating mentally.
Michael Bay offers the former and never the latter. And judging by DMZ's quote above, it looks like Michael Bay is still trying to insult our intelligence.
reilo said:
Fuck, I would to for the amount of money I'm sure they give him. That being said, for stuff like shoes and food and stuff, I'd much rather see a brand I know instead of a coke can with "Coca-Cola" being blocked by someones hand, or colored out/covered. Or a kid playing PS2, with the "Dual-Shock" being covered.
That's an utterly retarded definition of what defines "good."-COOLIO- said:
I struggle with this as a designer all of the time, and many times the "popular" or "trendy" thing to do is often times the wrong thing to do. There can be a mass abundance of something (ie Wal-Mart, Soulja Boy music) and still be deemed "bad."
While there are obvious examples where quality and quantity do meet, it is not necessarily true that quantity is equatable to quality. Hence why you need to separate the movie and the success it had and just judge it by what is shown for 90 to 120 minutes on the screen.
In general, most people's opinions are shit.-COOLIO- said:
See, I can talk in generalities, too, that doesn't make it true. Again, you need to separate the opinion of the masses and the reality of things.
The masses thought Cleveland was going to win it all this year and that the Cavs were the second coming of the 91 Bulls. The minority (ie me) was saying otherwise.
How did that turn out?
reilo said:
But comparing a movie to a fashion trend, or a "thing to do" is completely irrelevant. Its like saying you have a batter chance of getting eaten by a shark then winning the lotto. Unless your playing the lotto in the ocean, it makes no sense.
Name one "bad" movie that did amazing in the box office? Now name one great movie that did bad in the box office?
Unless your going by critic reviews, most answers will be personal opinion.
Transformers is fine the way it is. I honestly feel there is no need to make more intellectual. I'm not dissing the people who want to make it more sci-fi or add more to the mythos but its just Transformers, simply put robots fighting robots. If it doesn't appeal for you, move on.
Actually, most people don't know what they like so they rely on others to tell them what they should like. Hence, mass market consumption...-COOLIO- said:
How many people like something of x still doesn't equate to the quality of it. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
Look at the original post I quoted and why I said what I did.
I equated Michael Bay as the Tyler Perry of action movies. Come on, it's not that hard!jimmbow said:
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
reilo said:
because it's bullshit. if i made the fucking greatest movie in the world and only i liked it, and everyone else hated it, you know what? it fucking sucks. most people know what they like, people dont like things out of no where because other people said it was good. i didnt walk out of transformers hating it until a friend said "wow that was shitty movie". we all liked it because it was a fucking awesome ride.
now transformers may not be the kind of movie everyone liked a lot. but because most people like it, you have to agree that the consensus is that it's a good movie.
and i also love how no one is most people. you yourself probably love some low brow mainstream stuff in one sector or another that connoisseur would frown upon. i know i do.
No, I still don't have to agree with that.-COOLIO- said:
I guess the only conclusion we can come up with is that either criteria is bullshit.
I will say this though: The original transformers had Shia Lbff running around in underwear for 15mins chased by a robot half his size while there is an epic battle between barricade and bumblee going on and we don't get to see shit! Wtf Bay! If you are going to make a movie about robots having epic fights, then show us those goddamn fights you moron. That right there is automatic failure.
This bullshitSnaku said:
The whole "Nolan made Batman rise up above its comic book roots" thing is utter crap, as Batman has for a long long time been done in various serious and mature comic book offerings, many of which are better written than Nolan's movie.
Transformers was never anything more than silly shit. Even Beast Wars, pretty much the only "good" Transformers series, was filled to the rim with fart jokes and other crap like that.
If you want a serious Robot movie, wait for someone to make another movie based on something else. Theres no reason for a Transformers movie to not be silly shit either, as that is exactly what it should be.
Dead said:
This is bullshit.
There have been many different interpretations of Transformers, just like Batman; some better than others. This idea that all Transformers can ever be is robots blowing shit up is ridiculous. At one time, many thought all Batman could ever be was this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RqxHQOG7w
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Solo said:
i think im being clear when i differentiate between the consensus and personal opinion.
in other words, yeah, there's two different kinds of good.
i could instead say reviews are generally positive or most people liked it, but if people asked me about a movie i never saw and whether or not it was suppose to be "good". i'd go off of stuff like that and reply.
edit: and general consensus would get the priority over reviews
Like what?Snaku said:
The horrible Marvel or Dreamwave comics?
The ass-tastic Gonzo TF anime?
Please. Its never been good, aside from Beast Wars, and like I said, that was silly as well. The idea of making a GRIMDARK, serious Transformers film is utterly hilarious.
Transformers has always been about Robots bumbling about ineptly, cheesy humour, robots fighting each other (badly for the most part) and all kinds of silly crap. And above all else, a Toy commercial.
Batman became more than what you posted over 20 years ago. Transformes has never been anything more than it is for 25 years now and counting
Cow Mengde
Banned
Devastator Testicles!
Snaku said:
Ugh. This was pretty much my main complaint in the first movie and Bay just goes and does it even worse.
Eh, oh well. As for this quality debate, I'm fully expecting "Bayformers" and not a work of art. If it succeeds at just being a flick as opposed to being a super-deep work of art that will forever change the face of Transformers, then that will be enough to justify my ticket purchase. With that said, I'm not going to go as far as to say that something profound cannot be done with the Transformers mythos. But like stuff like Star Trek and Batman, there's not really a lot of room for expansion of a concept that involves a truck that transforms into a bipedal robot duking it out against a robot who transforms into a gun and occasionally steals cubes of energy.
- Status