MatrixMan.EXE
Member
LMAO.
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RUMOR: NX more powerful than PS4, Splatoon/Mario Maker ports in development
- Thread starter Spyder_Monkey
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LMAO.
10k already told us the price what it could be. 299 to 399 dollar. There id no reason that ps4 may cost that much and the nx not...
Orniletter
Banned
I was talking about my preferences
. I'd say about 95% of my gameing time is spend playing japanese games, you couldn't pay me to touch most western AAA games.So a system that combines the japanese thirdparty support Sony gets on top of Nintendo's excellent output sounds very appealing to me.
I know western thirdparty support is needed in this day and age to be successful and I'd love NX to have it, but....yeah. I don't buy these games for my PS4 and won't for NX.
dickroach
Member
lower the retail price of the NX & make an all-inclusive (every first party game ever) VC for $10/month or $50/year. everything=fine
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Nintendo fans getting in on the Digital Foundry threads is going to be hilarious.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not a problem, we all know Nintendo fans value gameplay over graphics and they are above caring for the most powerful console as the most powerful console does not win
.Seriously though, that would not be that funny of a scenario.
dickroach
Member
wait, the NX or the New NX?
Graphics Horse
Member
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Who's Tenkay? If NX is expensive it's DOA. There isn't that much of a market for expensive, high end Nintendo hardware. Especially not 3 years into Gen 8 with 40 million PS4 owners and 17 million Xbox One owners. If PS4 OG gets a price drop, that's even more salt in the wounds.
Eolz
Member
Oh boy
Tenkay is 10k.
The idea of console generations is going to shatter in pieces, when the big 3 are going to release a hardware every 2/3 years from now on.
Graphics Horse
Member
Tenkay is 10 K
And yeah, PS4 could possibly be under 299 around NX launch, at least for a limited xmas period.
Some of these rumours might be true/partially true but I'm not convinced of anything yet. I don't agree with 10k on how Nintendo's comments on newness and uniqueness jive with something that would be an optional accessory that turns it into a more expensive Wii U with remote play.
geordiemp
Member
MS balance sheet would not care is what I mean, you would not notice it. MS took no risks with GDDR5x and at 2013 the console was 'safe'.
If MS gets aggressive then they could push allot out of the market, but they have not as yet. My point is Sony nor Nintendo would not heavily subsidise hardware imo.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
$400 is the max for a high end Nintendo console, more than that and it's in DoA territory and that comes with the caveat that it's visibly more powerful than the PS4.
399$ would already be a HUGE risk.
If we can play with the "controller" anywhere with internet connection (and works fine), it's a buy for me even for 399.
I keep saying that if it has free online 400$ would be a good price. If this hollow gamepad is true we may have to pay for cloud services though.
I don't speak about Nintendo or gaming fans in general but "mass market". NX is not going to be a generation leap over PS4 and One ( even in the best case scenario ) so that price would be a pretty big risk for Nintendo. One is already at 299$ in US.
Nostremitus
Member
The Dreamcast was in an odd place, technically a member of that gen but it was abandoned at the very beginning. I forget that it is even considered a part of that gen instead of a late addition to the previous.
That has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Edit:
I say that Sony hasn't had the most powerful console every gen and people act like I said their consoles are bad or that they didn't bring anything to the industry...
They have DF threads sometimes, but "constant 60/30fps with very few drops" doesn't really bring much room for discussion. Nintendo should consider optimising their games less!
Where? Because mentioning a price discredited other "leakers" in the past and I don't see why 10k should not be if he stated any price. We all know that the price is not by the people who could leak info. Not at this moment in time. So where did he mentioned the price?
Polaris based GPU slightly better than PS4 (and assuming matching CPU and memory) is impossible at $299. And anything above $299 is a huge gamble for Nintendo.
The console was underpowered, so they could include the kinect, but it wasn't safe, nor was it using GDDR5x. It wasn't even standardized yet back in 2013.
It wasn't safe because it costs $499, $100 more expensive than the more powerful PS4. They had to remove the kinect from the bundles and price it at $399 to compete with Sony.
Your point of Sony and Nintendo not wanting to subsidize hw might be true, but neither are MS, otherwise they would've released the XBO with kinect for 399 or an XBO with same HW as the PS4 with Kinect for 399. All things points to MS not wanting to subsidize hw either.
Where? Cant find anything that denies the mod check. Even the mere existence of this topic.
Exactly 299 portable as powerful as a ps4 399 home console (due 2017) then sell both in a bundle for 600.
Go close to breaking even on the first batch ( the portable) throw in a free game ( likely a Wii u port like Mario Maker, Smash 4 or Splatoon) sell the first production run worldwide over Xmas ( 12 million) then leverage the rapidly growing install base to ensure the success of the home console which will have a much higher profit margin per unit
So, I decided to make this list showing nodes and when they were used by consoles to get a historical perspective on how plausible 14nmFF is for this year in NX.
Note: Dreamcast is left out because I cant find the info. Also, Im mostly basing the GPU parts on ATI/AMD, so it may be inaccurate; thats why I listed quarters for those.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PlayStation 12/1994 - 1.2 µm
1.2 µm GPUs - ??? (but ATI was using 0.6 µm in 1994)
Nintendo 64 6/1996 350nm
350nm GPUs Q1 1997 (this was a weird one)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
250nm GPUs Q1 1999
PlayStation 2 3/2000 250nm
180nm GPUs Q2 2000
150nm GPUs Q3 2001
GameCube 9/2001 -180nm (Note: There were rumors of this being aimed for a 2000 launch)
Xbox 11/2001 180nm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90nm GPUs Q4 2005? (Wikipedia was a fucking mess with this one)
All 7th gen consoles were 90nm
X360 11/2005
PS3 & Wii 11/2006 (I think PS3 was delayed?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40nm GPUs Q2 2009
28nm GPUs Q1 2012
Wii U 11/2012 40nm (This one might have been limited due to the original launch having been planned for earlier and/or the cost of shrinking Wii Us architecture down to 28nm being somewhat high)
PS4 & XBone 11/2013 28nm
Additional note: 3DS was using 65nm in 2011. It might have just been due to the age of the chosen GPU, but thats still pretty fucked-up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something that I should mention is that there are two versions of Samsung's 14nmFF process: LPE and LPP. Polaris will use LPP. LPE (the early version for mobiles) is already in consumer hands with the Galaxy S7. Thus, 14nmFF isn't necessarily ruled out based on this list, but it's a long shot for sure. I'd need old roadmaps from Samsung/GloFlo and TSMC to really know for sure.
With all of this said, if Nintendo were to go with 14nmFF, they could make a system on-par with PS4 but only slightly bigger than Wii U. That's really the only Nintendo-like thing about the idea, but it's very Nintendo-like since I feel like Iwata likely tried to learn something from Wii U (in this case, that being behind doesn't help anyone). I doubt that he saw PS4k coming though.
Note: Dreamcast is left out because I cant find the info. Also, Im mostly basing the GPU parts on ATI/AMD, so it may be inaccurate; thats why I listed quarters for those.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PlayStation 12/1994 - 1.2 µm
1.2 µm GPUs - ??? (but ATI was using 0.6 µm in 1994)
Nintendo 64 6/1996 350nm
350nm GPUs Q1 1997 (this was a weird one)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
250nm GPUs Q1 1999
PlayStation 2 3/2000 250nm
180nm GPUs Q2 2000
150nm GPUs Q3 2001
GameCube 9/2001 -180nm (Note: There were rumors of this being aimed for a 2000 launch)
Xbox 11/2001 180nm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90nm GPUs Q4 2005? (Wikipedia was a fucking mess with this one)
All 7th gen consoles were 90nm
X360 11/2005
PS3 & Wii 11/2006 (I think PS3 was delayed?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40nm GPUs Q2 2009
28nm GPUs Q1 2012
Wii U 11/2012 40nm (This one might have been limited due to the original launch having been planned for earlier and/or the cost of shrinking Wii Us architecture down to 28nm being somewhat high)
PS4 & XBone 11/2013 28nm
Additional note: 3DS was using 65nm in 2011. It might have just been due to the age of the chosen GPU, but thats still pretty fucked-up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something that I should mention is that there are two versions of Samsung's 14nmFF process: LPE and LPP. Polaris will use LPP. LPE (the early version for mobiles) is already in consumer hands with the Galaxy S7. Thus, 14nmFF isn't necessarily ruled out based on this list, but it's a long shot for sure. I'd need old roadmaps from Samsung/GloFlo and TSMC to really know for sure.
With all of this said, if Nintendo were to go with 14nmFF, they could make a system on-par with PS4 but only slightly bigger than Wii U. That's really the only Nintendo-like thing about the idea, but it's very Nintendo-like since I feel like Iwata likely tried to learn something from Wii U (in this case, that being behind doesn't help anyone). I doubt that he saw PS4k coming though.
Yep but today. Not in relation to the original rumors I think. This topic has been active since days.
ninjablade
Banned
Main point from the poster you quoted was sony like to have the best possible hardware for there console, the only reason sony doesn't have the most powerful console every gen is cause competition releases later.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Gonna re-post this again. I had posted this after 10K put up his latest round up of "rumors" last night. It's not that I don't trust 10K(he's only the messenger, don't shoot him haha) but I think a bunch of his "inside sources" are pranksters having fun at his and most of NeoGAF's expense.
Yes, but a certified insider doesn't need confirmation for every bit of info he posts.
That's impossible. Fucking 3DS is at $199.
I agree with you it's getting ridiculous.
cormack12
Gold Member
I'm still curious how this cloud/hours credit thing works. I'm wondering if the distributed contribution will be the credit that can be redeemed for off screen play remotely.
So for instance you share your console's resources and gain 3 hours credit. So then when out in the wild/remote you can connect specifically to the Nintendo Online service for free (for your credited hours) and then stream your content to the device. When your credit runs out, you have the option to purchase more, or maybe you have an overdraft that you need to repay to provide non interruption.
If you only purchase the handheld you can still play as normal the mobile games. I wonder if they will have more reward for sharing resources during on peak/off peak times.
So for instance you share your console's resources and gain 3 hours credit. So then when out in the wild/remote you can connect specifically to the Nintendo Online service for free (for your credited hours) and then stream your content to the device. When your credit runs out, you have the option to purchase more, or maybe you have an overdraft that you need to repay to provide non interruption.
If you only purchase the handheld you can still play as normal the mobile games. I wonder if they will have more reward for sharing resources during on peak/off peak times.
Just expect 33% weaker than XBox One and you probably won't be disappointed. Don't expect lower than that though since if Nintendo manages worse than that they deserve the harshest of backlash.
The most likely specs for the Nintendo we know and love are somewhere around:
8-core Puma+ @1.8GHz
640SP GCN 1.0 @800MHz (1.0TFLOP)
6GB DDR3 RAM with some exotic small but fast framebuffer like 64MB ESRAM
(Note: these are bad specs for super low expectations and a suggestion for people to use so you'll be happy with whatever they end up putting out. I think the likely GPU spec is double that.)
It's weird though. Weren't we getting legit rumors by this time for Wii U? Assuming a launch this year of course.
But yeah, what's coming at this point is clearly a wishlist. Some of it is flat-out impossible. I wouldn't mind if the thread were locked personally.
The things I buy:
- The 4 ports, especially Zelda and Smash. Multiple sources have been saying this.
- Final Fantasy XV on NX. Just makes a lot of sense for Square to port it.
- Good specs. By "good" I mean PS4-ish. I don't think they're going to release a 400-dollar beefcake though.
- The "lots of NX games in development" part. Nintendo's big teams haven't been silent for no reason.
- Luigi's Mansion 3 seems likely considering how well 2 sold.
Everything else seems iffy to me.
- The 4 ports, especially Zelda and Smash. Multiple sources have been saying this.
- Final Fantasy XV on NX. Just makes a lot of sense for Square to port it.
- Good specs. By "good" I mean PS4-ish. I don't think they're going to release a 400-dollar beefcake though.
- The "lots of NX games in development" part. Nintendo's big teams haven't been silent for no reason.
- Luigi's Mansion 3 seems likely considering how well 2 sold.
Everything else seems iffy to me.
And this led to years in red for Nintendo.
Worked well.
I kind of agree, but whatever reasons these sources might have, there's simply no way that these info are all true. And not because "lol nintendo", but because of cost. 14nm+Polaris+3tflops+controller with a screen+evolution of the Wii U streaming tech? I can believe that NLG is developing Luigi's Mansion 3, ora that FFXV may come to the platform. But all those things? No way, especially after Nintendo's statements about not having the desire of entering the specs war or offering a highly priced machine again after the Wii U.
The NX will be reasonably priced, with decent specs and hopefully a nice new concept that makes sense and really innovates the industry, but don't expect PS4K specs or you will get burned for no reason and start shitting on whatever they come up with because it wasn't up to such unrealistic expectations.
I actually fully expect them to sell at a slight loss that can be covered by one game and to put faith in economies of scale, but the kind of loss needed for these latest rumors is ridiculous. Also, 14nm is a T1 rumor. My guess is that that particular source is a fake. I'd like it if 10k would avoid posting anything less than T2 rumors from now on unless he can get the source fully verified. If the source refuses to do so, 95% fake.
I think that may have had more to with the lack of sales from Wii U. If Wii U had actually sold well, its production cost would have dropped sooner and they wouldn't have had left over inventory. (Excess inventory directly impacts net profit.)
Bony Manifesto
Member
It's mystifying how they managed to sell those consoles at a loss but made money at launch with the GameCube. Both the 3DS and the Wii U seemed very expensive for the relatively modest hardware you were getting.
biglittleps
Member
I would expect NX between XB1 and PS4 priced around $249-299 max. There is no way they can generate momentum and sales if the price greater than $299 when PS4 and XB1 are going to be $299 or lower from holidays mostly along with huge library of 3rd party games (which sells system more than exclusives this gen) to play compared to limited library and higher price of NX. Also we have to consider that PS4 has VR this holiday to push many users to choose that over others unless NX has something revolutionary like Wii which is really hard.
EDIT: Most likely scenario is CPU will be powerful than PS4 but GPU will be underpowered and balanced to CPU.
Exactly..which is why I doubt they try the same tactic.
Graphics Horse
Member
We were getting Wii U rumours about 2 years from launch, but it was revealled about 18 months from lauch so not really the same situation. I think it will be more like the handheld situation where it's mostly leak free before reveal/announcement and released within a year.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
It's standard practice for all consoles.
True. So, chances are that the only real information has come from WSJ and LCGeek. I strongly suspect that 10k's sources are the Reddit leakers.
Being in red? That's false. Playstation is maybe the most profitable Sony department outside insurances now. And Microsoft is trying to expand now their business more on PC to improve this area.
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