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[Pancake Mix]

oh yay its more powerful than 3 year old hardware. So will it be less powerful then current hardware by the time it's released? (PS4.5 and Xbox 1.5?)

If those stopgaps fail to attract consumers to pay more for minor upgrades after 3 years, then it's irrelevant. In the same way it's best to wait and see if Nintendo hardware will be successful, it's best to wait and see if the PS4.1 and Xbox One and one tenth will even be a threat...unlike their parent consoles.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

This and they need to take the Son rout and announce games that won't come out for 2-3 years. Yes, like Zelda cause lets face it, that works. Sony's E3 conference last year is proof.

Interesting idea. Probably not a bad idea. Out of desperation Nintendo announcement some Wii U games years in advance already, but sometimes with a backslash because they tend to use real game graphics, even if the game far from finished.

Sony and Microsoft tend to announce games that are years away from releasing with CGI-Trailers (or PC graphics) and many people thinks these are real time graphics. Should Nintendo go that route to? Would probably get them more benefit than backlash if use CGI trailers too.

 

[Malakai]

Crap experience's you what? The same casuals that are playing shitty f2p games. Nah that's definately not it.

Honestly, I don't think the "casuals" that plays on mobile were and/or are the same "casuals" that actually purchased a dedicated video gaming device and went out and purchase video games.

 

[MrBigBoy]

See above.

My bad, I thought you meant a TV blu ray player.

 

[Principate]

Attach rates were low for the wii; I think it had a year and a half were casuals were super into it and then they moved on. It was a wii sports machine to them. The shovelware and lack of compelling titles turned core gamers off but the casuals were never heavily engaged and there was likely little they could do on the wii to retain them. They could have had a less awful console naming scheme to attract some of those casuals to the wii U but those casuals had mostly moved onto mobile and most of the data points to mobile being enough gaming for many people.

Attach rates weren't that low it had an attach rate of 8 which is actually fairly high.

 

[Vena]

Attach rates were low for the wii; I think it had a year and a half were casuals were super into it and then they moved on. It was a wii sports machine to them. The shovelware and lack of compelling titles turned core gamers off but the casuals were never heavily engaged and there was likely little they could do on the wii to retain them. They could have had a less awful console naming scheme to attract some of those casuals to the wii U but those casuals had mostly moved onto mobile and most of the data points to mobile being enough gaming for many people.

No, they weren't.

I didn't know casuals bought nine copies of Wii Sports, or you must be saying that the "core" Nintendo audience bought 28 pieces of software each.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Personally, I dont see 3D Mario coming at launch. I think we'll get a trailer for it at e3, but I believe it's a Holiday 2017 title. Akin to how the Wii released.

Now for launch I think we'll see Zelda, Smash 4 port, and Pikmin 4. However, I think Retro's project will slide into the launch window. Wouldn't doubt something like Luigi's Mansion 3 either. Also, Nintendo will probably have a Wii sports/Nintendo Land like game I guess.

I'm not expecting Nintendo to go guns blazing on day 1. Everything I said up top is within reason.

That's all reasonable. It's pretty much what I'm expecting too.

 

[10k]

Is the hololens thing true or joke?
Didn't find time to read through the whole thread. ☺️

I already explained it's a joke. It's on the last page.

 

[Neoxon]

Depends on uhd bluray movie support for me. If NX has it I'll get that at launch, if not maybe later on down the line after a price drop. If ps4k actually releases and has uhd bluray and NXbox doesn't, I'll swap the ps4 in heartbeat over buying a standalone 4k bluray player, and hold off on NX.

Nintendo typically avoids licensed formats such as Blu-Ray for the sake of keeping costs down, instead opting for knock-offs of pre-existing formats (see their knock-off Blu-Ray discs used for the Wii U). Hell, there's a chance that Nintendo may go with cartridges instead of discs for the NX Console to line up with the handheld.

 

[Principate]

No, they weren't.



I didn't know casuals bought nine copies of Wii Sports.

Even better than I remembered, unless these are newer numbers.

 

[MK_768]

Interesting idea. Probably not a bad idea. Out of desperation Nintendo announcement some Wii U games years in advance already, but sometimes with a backslash because they tend to use real game graphics, even if the game far from finished.

Sony and Microsoft tend to announce games that are years away from releasing with CGI-Trailers (or PC graphics) and many people thinks these are real time graphics. Should Nintendo go that route to? Would probably get them more benefit than backlash if use CGI trailers too.

I don't see why not. Gamers have shown to not care about the CGI-trailers in the long run. Nintendo likes to focus on games coming out within 12-18 months. They should announce games they know wont be ready for 24-36 months. I'm not saying all of them, mind you, just 1.

 

[MrBigBoy]

Interesting idea. Probably not a bad idea. Out of desperation Nintendo announcement some Wii U games years in advance already, but sometimes with a backslash because they tend to use real game graphics, even if the game far from finished.

Sony and Microsoft tend to announce games that are years away from releasing with CGI-Trailers (or PC graphics) and many people thinks these are real time graphics. Should Nintendo go that route to? Would probably get them more benefit than backlash if use CGI trailers too.

Nintendo likes to announce games in a relatevily short time before they release. I don't expect them to announce games 2,5-3 years before release.

 

[Glorified G]

Not sure where you're getting $400 and the point is that if they could play Nintendo's first party along with all the same 3rd party games as the others, it would be compelling enough for some people. If the NX is really able to get 3rd party games then it comes down to

Sony 1st party vs MS 1st party vs Nintendo 1st party

And I think Nintendo fairs a lot better than most people would assume

If Nintendo had have parity on third party support with their next console that would mean NX owners will have something that Nintendo couldn't since the SNES. Options.

How would Halo, MLB The Show, Bloodborne, etc be viewed if PS4 & XB1 owners didn't have any other options but those games? The same amount of people who bought a Wii U (around 10 million or so) would only buy an PS4 & XB1 and make those games appear to be the second coming of gaming euphoria. The main reason Nintendo's Wii U first party software look favorable is because Wii U owners have little to compare it too.

 

[ZOONAMI]

My bad, I thought you meant a TV blu ray player.

Well, theoretically, I do mean a tv player. NX or PS4k just needs a drive and then a gpu that supports the same standards.

And you could build a PC that will play 4k blurays for less than what samsung is offering, once cyberlink puts out the update. You can use a gtx 950 which will support all necessary standards.

 

[Father_Brain]

Their software by itself might not be enough for most gamers, that's true, but they still have the best first party output of any of the hardware companies. Garnering a larger, more varied library that caters to a wide audience by rebuilding relationships with publishers and releasing competent hardware will go a long way. I agree with you that they will struggle if they try to forge ahead with a library that mostly consists of just Nintendo IP.

The fundamental question here, for me, is: what audience that Nintendo isn't currently reaching is still realistically available to them? Most of us can agree that mobile has the casual audience locked down. The PS4/XB1 audience is already well served by those platforms. What's left?

And other than making the porting process easier, what is Nintendo actually doing to win back third parties? When EA asks them what they're doing to proactively cultivate an audience for Madden and Battlefield on NX, what's their response going to be: slightly better graphics? Our platform has Mario on it? We'll pay for ads that only mention the NX version, like we did back in the GC era to no effect?

 

[MK_768]

Nintendo likes to announce games in a relatevily short time before they release. I don't expect them to announce games 2,5-3 years before release.

Nobody does, but we are arguing if they should. I'm arguing that they should lol.

 

[Hoo-doo]

For those saying the PS4.5 will trump the NX, in theory, I'll propose a question:

Would you rather:
Sell/junk/give away your PS4 and get a ps4.5 that plays all the same games, some of them slightly better
OR
Get an all new system with all new games AND keep your PS4 and still be able to play 99% of PS4 games?

I know some will pick option 1, but I think a lot more would pick option 2. I think an even bigger chunk will pick option 3, though - 'keep my ps4, don't get either ps4k or the NX'

More likely, the majority of PS4 owners will either pick up a PS4K or keep playing on PS4 without even honestly considering the NX.
It might end up completely ignored by the hardcore gamer, just like the last two generations of Nintendo consoles.

Your 'choices' are rather presumptuous. And it doesn't honestly even make sense to ask the question when we haven't got the faintest idea as to what both consoles will offer.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Attach rates were low for the wii; I think it had a year and a half were casuals were super into it and then they moved on. It was a wii sports machine to them. The shovelware and lack of compelling titles turned core gamers off but the casuals were never heavily engaged and there was likely little they could do on the wii to retain them. They could have had a less awful console naming scheme to attract some of those casuals to the wii U but those casuals had mostly moved onto mobile and most of the data points to mobile being enough gaming for many people.

Despite this narrative attach rate wasn't low for the Wii.

 

[Principate]

Nintendo typically avoids licensed formats such as Blu-Ray for the sake of keeping costs down, instead opting for knock-offs of pre-existing formats (see their knock-off Blu-Ray discs used for the Wii U). Hell, there's a chance that Nintendo may go with cartridges instead of discs for the NX Console to line up with the handheld.

I think large cartirdges are a bit too expensive for it to be worthwhile, which was always my biggest hangup with that rumour.

 

[Journey]

Kind of like how the Xbox and GameCube were over 2 years behind the ps2 but we're more powerful. Yay?

They came out a year later. Not two.

True, that being said, Xbox was a BEAST compared to PS2, the GPU even supported programmable shaders which we still use today, with double the main memory and double the main memory bandwidth. If people would have been better informed backed then, I don't think PS2 would have dominated as well as it did, because initially it wasn't really doing well with the games either. At the same $299 price you got an included HDD with 4 controller ports, default ethernet adapter and discreet DD5.1 for all games and not just marginally better graphics, but distinctively better visuals with games like Enter the Matrix supporting full 1080 resolution compared to 480 for PS2, now that's a huge jump, forget 900p or 720p lol, unfortunately HDTV's hadn't been fully implemented until PS3/360, so the Xbox was just way ahead of its time.

With 360 they went a little more conservative, but with the right formula of ease in programming and neat hardware tricks like eDram, Xenos was a better design than RSX, they ended up with the better overall design despite launching a full year sooner, and I think the thought of treating hardware second and focusing on other aspects is what got them in trouble this time, they underestimated how important the hardware power is to gamers, it always was actually, but we didn't have the tools back then to see exactly how much the difference meant except for looking at games, but now we have DF and others even counting pixels, so you better have the most powerful hardware, or at least the most overall capable machine if you want to be on top, and hopefully Nintendo does come out with something powerful enough that will push both Sony and MS to launch their new systems sooner and also be a little more ambitious with their spec's. They should've learned with the smartphone trend, no one believed people would pay $200 for a phone that's subsidized, but Apple proved everyone wrong with the iPhone, people will buy it if the hardware delivers regardless if pricey.

 

[Zoon]

As far as pricing goes I would say that 400$ would be justifiable if it has free online services or maybe paid subscription for at least the first 6 months (for the record I am against paying for online). This will be a major selling point since a lot of people you will want to buy it as a secondary console wouldn't be happy to pay for 2 different online services.

 

[MrBigBoy]

Nobody does, but we are arguing if they should. I'm arguing that they should lol.

They shouldn't

 

[MK_768]

They shouldn't

Fair enough haha.

 

[Neoxon]

I think large cartirdges are a bit too expensive for it to be worthwhile, which was always my biggest hangup with that rumour.

I never said large cartridges. Flash memory has gone down in price considerably in the last few years, & a high-capacity cartridge along the lines of the 3DS cartridges' form factor would have a fair bit of benefits if Nintendo goes the shared platform route.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I passed on the Wii U for numerous reasons, but if the NX has Smash 4 and Zelda on day 1, my ass will be at the midnight launch.

 

[Vena]

More likely, the majority of PS4 owners will either pick up a PS4K or keep playing on PS4 without even honestly considering the NX.
It might end up completely ignored by the hardcore gamer, just like the last two generations of Nintendo consoles.

Your 'choices' are rather presumptuous. And it doesn't honestly even make sense to ask the question when we haven't got the faintest idea as to what both consoles will offer.

???? Everyone bought a Wii.

 

[Neoxon]

I passed on the Wii U for numerous reasons, but if the NX has Smash 4 and Zelda on day 1, my ass will be at the midnight launch.

The mods banned the use of Hype Trains in threads a while back.

 

[Ahab]

If Nintendo had have parity on third party support with their next console that would mean NX owners will have something that Nintendo couldn't since the SNES. Options.

How would Halo, MLB The Show, Bloodborne, etc be viewed if PS4 & XB1 owners didn't have any other options but those games? The same amount of people who bought a Wii U (around 10 million or so) would only buy an PS4 & XB1 and make those games appear to be the second coming of gaming euphoria. The main reason Nintendo's Wii U first party software look favorable is because Wii U owners have little to compare it too.

This is such a stupid argument. You're implying every single Wii U owner out there exclusively plays Nintendo games, that's far from the case. People praise Wii U games because a lot of them are, flat out, quality games that other software makers simply aren't making.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I passed on the Wii U for numerous reasons, but if the NX has Smash 4 and Zelda on day 1, my ass will be at the midnight launch.

This is why Nintendo is porting Smash and Zelda so people who skipped the Wii U would be enticed to buy a NX and trust me those two franchises mean a lot.

 

[MK_768]

???? Everyone bought a Wii.

hardcore games don't buy kiddie consoles

Spoiler

lol

I passed on the Wii U for numerous reasons, but if the NX has Smash 4 and Zelda on day 1, my ass will be at the midnight launch.

And you are the target audience for these ports lol. I've seen a lot of people miss out on Smash simply because the Wii U was toxic to them haha.

 

[Principate]

I never said large cartridges. Flash memory has gone down in price considerably in the last few years, & a high-capacity cartridge along the lines of the 3DS cartridges' form factor would have a fair bit of benefits if Nintendo goes the shared platform route.

I know that's what you mean but those are like 10gb max. Blu ray size games are like 50gb. Even at mass production, I'm not sure if it's cheap enough to be a feasible replacement. I haven't looked at the prices myself so I don't know. i just honestly would be surprised f it was.

 

[Kickz]

Lol Nintendo, releasing a more stronger PS4/XB1 just as both of those consoles are about to upgrade their power...

They aren't gonna win this fight..

They better have a shiny new gimmick as backup

 

[Schnozberry]

I don't think much of anything can be cut from the chip as such? At least the PS4 didn't seem to given its size? The HD7850/70 die was 212mm2 and PS4 APU is 328 mm2/348 mm2 with ~50 mm2 being for the 8 core Jaguar. Sony did tweak it with the GPGPU stuff though.

I would think NX would come in under 100W and the only way I can see that while being more powerful than PS4 is Polaris and 14nm.

They wouldn't need an independent memory controller for the GPU or any of the circuitry needed for PCI Express, for instance.

Again, no idea what Nintendo is targeting for TDP. I think setting arbitrary limits would be a mistake.

 

[georly]

More likely, the majority of PS4 owners will either pick up a PS4K or keep playing on PS4 without even honestly considering the NX.
It might end up completely ignored by the hardcore gamer, just like the last two generations of Nintendo consoles.

Your 'choices' are rather presumptuous. And it doesn't honestly even make sense to ask the question when we haven't got the faintest idea as to what both consoles will offer.

I addressed this in another post. I'm well aware of the stigma nintendo faces. I'm also basing this off of the rumors we currently have. Things can change.

I'm merely saying, all things equal, rumor specs are true, *and* nintendo manages to offer a lineup that helps address the stigma, I think some gamers will see more value in purchasing a new console with its own subset of exclusives over a console that merely offers performance updates on games they were going to get. Especially households with kids.

Your average single bachelor/ette? Will probably continue to ignore nintendo.


Either way, I think the majority will pick option 3 - none of the above. Unless the ps4k can offer incredible perceived value to their audience, I think it'll remain an upgrade for the enthusiast crowd, otherwise the appeal will likely be fore newcomers who haven't picked up a PS4 yet (and can afford the pricier model).

I may be wrong, I'm no industry analyst.

 

[DigSCCP]

When I say "best," I mean "the one that the most people enjoy" or perhaps more accurately "the one that is most appealing."

I'm not talking "best" in a subjective, critical sense like you'll see in reviews. There is no real way to measure quality by those metrics.

But as for the games that the most people enjoy or that are the most appealing? Both of those metrics are objectively observable through sales.

Bro, Zelda wont be this game.
The most appealing OW game will still GTAV.
GTA outsells any other OW.
It wont be diferent with Zelda.
GTAV PS4 Edition will outsell Zelda NX.
To be honest I dont think Nintendo is even ready to go trought this competition its their first HD Zelda and their first OW Zelda against GTA V, The Witcher, MGS V, hell I could even say AC and other series that got larger scope than Zelda from a long time and developers that got more experience in this kinda game from a even longer time.
I think if Nintendo reach something close to TW3 - wich I would bet it wont - will be already a victory.
Still tho I think it ll be a great game, as Zelda always is.

 

[Malakai]

See above.

Wow. That's enlightening. A lot of blu rays drives are capable of playing UHD Blu-rays. So, why the heck are the UHD blu ray players going for hundreds and hundreds or dollars?

 

[Trago]

???? Everyone bought a Wii.

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that gamers didn't buy a Wii considering how crazy the attach rate was.

 

[MK_768]

Lol Nintendo, releasing a more stronger PS4/XB1 just as both of those consoles are about to upgrade their power...

They aren't gonna win this fight..

They better have a shiny new gimmick as backup

Lol. What fight? Oh console wars?

Please.

 

[ozfunghi]

Your 'choices' are rather presumptuous. And it doesn't honestly even make sense to ask the question when we haven't got the faintest idea as to what both consoles will offer.

Funny coming from someone who is so adamant in suggesting Nintendo has nothing to offer or persuade 3rd parties to release software on their console.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Wow. That's enlightening. A lot of blu rays drives are capable of playing UHD Blu-rays. So, why the heck are the UHD blu ray players going for hundreds and hundreds or dollars?

Because cyberlink hasn't released their software yet and Samsung is literally the only offering right now. So, they can charge bleeding edge prices for ridiculous margins. It's just business.

Samsung is probably making close to $350 profit on every one of those units.

 

[Principate]

Lol Nintendo, releasing a more stronger PS4/XB1 just as both of those consoles are about to upgrade their power...

They aren't gonna win this fight..

They better have a shiny new gimmick as backup

I'm not sold those console will do particularly well to be honest, Seems like they'll like just eat into PS4 legs with a more frontloaded bump. It is a a pretty big ask price wise. I think if NX fails it'll entire be down to Nintendo's toxic mindshare rather those highly divisive platforms.

 

[spekkeh]

Attach rates were low for the wii; I think it had a year and a half were casuals were super into it and then they moved on. It was a wii sports machine to them. The shovelware and lack of compelling titles turned core gamers off but the casuals were never heavily engaged and there was likely little they could do on the wii to retain them. They could have had a less awful console naming scheme to attract some of those casuals to the wii U but those casuals had mostly moved onto mobile and most of the data points to mobile being enough gaming for many people.

I mean seriously you could be forgiven if you were a junior, but this narrative has been consistently refuted here for over four years now.

 

[georly]

Lol. What fight? Oh console wars?

Please.

Ignore the drive by posts. It's possible they wind up being correct, but they won't be correct for the reason they think they are.

No, they weren't.



I didn't know casuals bought nine copies of Wii Sports, or you must be saying that the "core" Nintendo audience bought 28 pieces of software each.

I mean, I think I own 28 wii games ;_;

 

[Pineapple]

As far as pricing goes I would say that 400$ would be justifiable if it has free online services or maybe paid subscription for at least the first 6 months (for the record I am against paying for online). This will be a major selling point since a lot of people you will want to buy it as a secondary console wouldn't be happy to pay for 2 different online services.

I don't see any way in which this console succeeds if it's priced at $400 at launch, especially when you can already pick up a One or PS4 for $50-$100 cheaper with established game libraries. They might be able to get away with it if it launches with the next Super Mario 64 or something, or some killer app that everyone has to own, but that's unlikely.

Nintendo's new console will need to come in at $300 or less to compete.

 

[Hoo-doo]

???? Everyone bought a Wii.

A lot of people did, sure. But anecdotally, I haven't seen a lot of uptake of Wii consoles in my circle of friends and family that i'd classify as people who are big into gaming. My mom and my sister both owned one though.

I have to think that the target demographic for the Wii console is very different than the crowd that's currently buying XB1 and PS4.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Lol Nintendo, releasing a more stronger PS4/XB1 just as both of those consoles are about to upgrade their power...

They aren't gonna win this fight..

They better have a shiny new gimmick as backup

Ahh, the good old console wars.

I'll be over here, playing games.

 

[thelastword]

Nintendo coming out with decent hardware this time around maybe the #1 reason Sony rolls out the PS4K. I don't think Sony wants any console to be more powerful than the PS4 this generation.

 

[Ahab]

More likely, the majority of PS4 owners will either pick up a PS4K or keep playing on PS4 without even honestly considering the NX.
It might end up completely ignored by the hardcore gamer, just like the last two generations of Nintendo consoles.

I think the term "hardcore gamer" here is a bit disingenuous. The PS4 has sold over 40+ million units, the majority of those sales are from the type of people who buy their yearly AAA games (i.e. Call of Duty, Fifa, Destiny, Assassin's Creed, The Division etc.) and not much more. Those people aren't hardcore gamers, they're definitely more on the casual end of the spectrum. And I honestly doubt the vast majority of them will pay $400+ to upgrade their pre-existing PS4, that they only bought a few years ago and still works fine, for a slightly better version. Console generations last 5+ years for a reason.

Lol Nintendo, releasing a more stronger PS4/XB1 just as both of those consoles are about to upgrade their power...

They aren't gonna win this fight..

They better have a shiny new gimmick as backup

Don't matter when the mainstream consumers aren't going to buy a PS4K/Xbone 1.5 to begin with. The NX is going to be a hard sell to the mainstream consumer for sure, but it's definitely an easier one than a PS4K/Xbone 1.5. Not to mention it doesn't matter too much when third party developers are going to have to keep parity across all the devices anyway, including the old PS4/Xbone hardware. They aren't ditching a 50+ million install base.

 

[Proelite]

I don't see any way in which this console succeeds if it's priced at $400 at launch, especially when you can already pick up a One or PS4 for $50-$100 cheaper with established game libraries.

Nintendo's new console will need to come in at $300 or less to compete.

This.

They need to capture as many of the 360 and PS3 players who are planning to move on to the PS4 and Xbox1 when they hit a certain price range. Its imperative that they are the cheapest path and they have the third party games like COD etc. Having Mario, Zelda might just prove to be competitve edge.

 

[Chindogg]

A lot of people did, sure. But anecdotally, I haven't seen a lot of uptake of Wii consoles in my circle of friends and family that i'd classify as people who are big into gaming. My mom and my sister both owned one though.

I have to think that the target demographic for the Wii console is very different than the crowd that's currently buying XB1 and PS4.

It's true that the Wii's demographic was basically everyone, especially non-traditional gamers, but the attach rate is way too damn high for the whole poor software sales argument to hold water.