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[carlo6529]

I'm perfectly happy with slightly about 360 levels. Why, because I'm not a graphics whore. All I want is Nintendo's franchises in HD, that's it, since Nintendo's console is the only one I'm going to get next gen. I have a kid now, I can't afford to buy all 3 systems anymore (and honestly, this gen really disappointed me).

I am not a graphic whore in the slightest either however, I am somewhat concerned that the system will not be able to run next gen game engines similar to what happened to the Wii this gen.

 

[Xun]

It'll be a far smaller gap than Wii->PS3.
The N6 will be above the 360 and be able to handle pretty much all the little graphical effects that the PS4/720 can, just with less geometry and less AA.
It'll still allow for multiplatform games, and launching early means they'll have a good userbase.

Graphics will come a long way by 2012, especially since the machines would be built specifically for gaming.

 

[AceBandage]

Graphics will come a long way by 2012, especially since the machines would be built specifically for gaming.

They really won't for consoles.
UE3 won't be running in its current state on any console (or any PC for a while for that matter).
It'll be heavily neutered and scalable to the N6.

 

[ASIS]

It'll be a far smaller gap than Wii->PS3.
The N6 will be above the 360 and be able to handle pretty much all the little graphical effects that the PS4/720 can, just with less geometry and less AA.
It'll still allow for multiplatform games, and launching early means they'll have a good userbase.

So basically the gap will be like PS2->Xbox?

I hope that's the case.

 

[The Librarian]

Nintendo would still have a year on the market with the most powerful system which would be different from last gen. And maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems like downporting from PS4/720 -> Wii 2 would result in much better/acceptable results than porting a top tier 360 game to Wii.

And in the end, if you are correct, it may not matter if they are behind the curve as it CERTAINLY did not matter this gen.

Graphics certainly don't matter, yes. I guess I'm trying to understand Nintendo's thinking on this.

Edit: I guess if the gap is significantly smaller than Wii and PS3, it won't really matter.

 

[Big One]

Except THQ the big publishers are pushing for the next gen already, obviously the lifespan will be larger, but there's no way MS and Sony are gonna spend several years stuck in the same hardware, there basically no need, NGP showed that you can have a gen leap with a more conservative hardware aproach.

Yeah, we remember the Sony PR about having 10 years of lifespan and such, but I'll give this gen 2 more years, before new consoles will appear leaving Wii 2 (depending of the final hardware specs) left behind by big publishers...

It really depends on what direction they'll go in, but I really think in particular they'll be a couple years behind in release mainly cause of how successful Kinect was and stuff like Final Fantasy Versus XIII still being in development for the PS3. While you said there are developers pushing for next gen, they're also developers who are perfectly happy where they are, especially indie developers who don't make games that necessarily push the hardware more-so than just run on it. Then there's also the fact that the PC market isn't really coming out with powerhouse games that aren't able to run properly on consoles on a normal basis, kind of destroying a need to keep up with the times when development has more or less stagnated in that area. What I'm saying is I could easily see the Xbox NextGen and PS4 to be an incremental upgrade from their current model; maybe even DL-only consoles with similar specs to their predecessor. Maybe even an upgrade that makes something like 60-fps standard but the graphics more or less the same.

 

[wrowa]

The first (and vague) pieces of information came most probably from many different sources, but do we know whether or not the later info about the controller and the specs is also being reported by different sources? I'm starting to wonder whether or not someone in the industry is just pulling our leg (and the legs of the magazines).

That's not real footage.

Real footage or not, the real time demo is a rather bad indication for the graphical potential of the GPU, since the demo is still just a video without other stuff like AI running in the background.

At least that's my understanding :x

 

[Always-honest]

I think he means... how can a game like Uncharted 2 look a TON better?

I don't think it really can unless you are going for photorealism, which Nintendo doesn't do.

but then that wraps around to... does Nintendo still not care about 3rd party devs?

no.. it doesn't have to be photo-realism at all.
Steady 60 fps framerate at 1080p with high res textures and Really really great anti aliassing.
Better lighting, better shadows, shaders, Depth of field, effects (fire,smoke etc), foliage, destructability, etc.

Think in terms of animated cinema like PIXAR. I hope you don't think this gen is allready close to that?

 

[zeioIIDX]

I can't even imagine how long it would take to develop a Metroid Prime with 360/PS3 level of detail and graphics. I mean as far as 1st party games go, we see a major Zelda/Mario/Metroid game once a year as they rotate but because a lot of people buy Nintendo systems mainly for those AAA titles, it feels like it takes forever before they get released. No one's worried that if Nintendo's next system is as powerful or more powerful than current gen systems, it'll take them much longer to get out those Metroid Primes and Mario Galaxy titles?

But man, I would love to see a next-gen Pilotwings (o_0) The level of detail the N64 version had at the time was amazing, and I really hope they get a Pilotwings on the next system!

 

[Curufinwe]

Even with its shit power, the Wii got most of my favorite third party games of this generation.
People really didn't give that system a fair shake.

What were those games?

Just having a quick look at the games on my shelf, I see a bunch of fantastic third party titles that either never made it to the Wii or the Wii version was terrible. Batman, Assassin's Creed 2 & Brotherhood, Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit, Bayonetta, Vanquish...

 

[Futureman]

People have mentioned this situation is similar to the 3DS last year, where details leaked, Nintendo revealed some info before E3, and then blew it out at E3.

when exactly did details leak last year and how soon before E3 did Nintendo reveal info? We only have about a month and a half until E3, so it's gotta be pretty soon.

 

[Doorman]

Nintendo would still have a year on the market with the most powerful system which would be different from last gen. And maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems like downporting from PS4/720 -> Wii 2 would result in much better/acceptable results than porting a top tier 360 game to Wii.

And in the end, if you are correct, it may not matter if they are behind the curve as it CERTAINLY did not matter this gen.

The Xbox 360 had a whole year by itself on the market as the most powerful console you could get, and it still lost...to a less-powerful machine. One year is not so great an advantage that it regularly generates any sort of insurmountable lead, especially if Sony and Microsoft start to release some details about their own next generation before Cafe is released (and they will). Not everybody hopped on with the Xbox 360 from the get-go because we all already knew that Wii and PS3 were also on the way. That's a very real possibility here, especially if Cafe really is almost a generation behind again and third parties know that something much stronger is only a year away.

 

[Azure J]

Something about this "marginally/somewhat more powerful than 360 line" bugs me based on what info is there amidst the rumors. One of the things mentioned in most of the reports has been that developers have been extremely excited over the console and what it offers. Knowing what they went through with the Wii itself in comparison to the HD duo, wouldn't it be safe to say that if they knew it was only some moderate bump over the 360 that they would be savvy enough to realize that in a few years time, when PS4/NextBox comes out it'd pretty much be the same song and dance again?

The one kink in this train of thought revolves around a possibility that Nintendo is making this bump look attractive to devs with extra means and trying to go for a "PS2" play, namely establishing this console as the one that dictates the flow of games between all three 8th gen consoles.

Still for all, I do believe that something's up. I have a feeling that this console is going to be pretty beefy (or at the very least highly optimized/efficiently designed).

Spoiler

I'm also kinda hoping they went with the AMD Fusion offering. That would be a lot of fun right there. :lol

 

[Fourth Storm]

Hey guys, I followed Reggie out of NOA headquarters last night. I called out to him to see if he would spill any beans, but as soon as he heard his name, he bolted into the darkness. I saw a small piece of paper slip out of his pocket, and upon closer examination, found what may be a concept for "Cafe."

Looks like it's got two halves that break away forming either a traditional controller or a couple of pointers. Hmmmm

 

[mugurumakensei]

I am not a graphic whore in the slightest either however, I am somewhat concerned that the system will not be able to run next gen game engines similar to what happened to the Wii this gen.

Oh, they Wii2 won't follow the same path as Wii. At least, it won't for the reason you think it will. I doubt Epic's next Unreal Engine will completely abandon current shading architectures. Afterall, they'll want to support things like iPhone Xs and Android X.XX. It will have a fallback pipeline which means games can still be ported to the Wii2. That's significantly different from the Wii and 360/PS3 where the Wii needed very custom code in order to support even the most trivial of things like Normal Mapping.

 

[AceBandage]

What were those games?

Just having a quick look at the games on my shelf, I see a bunch of fantastic third party titles that either never made it to the Wii or the Wii version was terrible. Batman, Assassin's Creed 2 & Brotherhood, Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit, Bayonetta, Vanquish...

No More Heroes 1/2
Madworld
Little King's Story
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
Zack and Wiki
SSX Blur (AKA, the only real next gen SSX game)
House of the Dead: Overkill

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Kind of disappointed it's just barely better than 360 considering the 360 came out in 2005.

 

[WillyFive]

People have mentioned this situation is similar to the 3DS last year, where details leaked, Nintendo revealed some info before E3, and then blew it out at E3.

when exactly did details leak last year and how soon before E3 did Nintendo reveal info? We only have about a month and a half until E3, so it's gotta be pretty soon.

Except that Nintendo actually confirmed the existence of the 3DS, they announced it themselves. All the leaks and speculation came afterwards, I think.

 

[TheExecutive]

It'll be a far smaller gap than Wii->PS3.
The N6 will be above the 360 and be able to handle pretty much all the little graphical effects that the PS4/720 can, just with less geometry and less AA.
It'll still allow for multiplatform games, and launching early means they'll have a good userbase.

Depending on the strategy that MS and Sony take there is definitely the possibility of a wii-->PS3 gap for the wiiHD-->PS4. There is enough technology out there to argue the case. If the wiiHD is even remotely close to the 360 powerwise the ps4 and xbox3 have a definite chance of completely blowing the wiiHD out of the water. Whether the two companies decide to take that path is up for some serious debate. Sony is more likely to take the aformentioned path than MS is at this point.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

So basically the gap will be like PS2->Xbox?

I hope that's the case.

I hardly see that being the case, probably the gap will be like 3DS -> NGP, basically "almost" whole gen gap.

 

[Eric C]

01net does 'flat out' say the CPU is a tri-core PowerPC variant. They're less definitive on the GPU though, but they say 'probably' a R700 derivative.

This thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Seems to think it's the AMD Trinity. If it's true the Dev kits probably wouldn't even have it yet. That would explain the conflicting rumors about the specs.

So unless Microsoft or Sony are releasing a console in 2012, it's probably Nintendo thats using the AMD Trinity.

 

[Curufinwe]

What I'm saying is I could easily see the Xbox NextGen and PS4 to be an incremental upgrade from their current model; maybe even DL-only consoles with similar specs to their predecessor. Maybe even an upgrade that makes something like 60-fps standard but the graphics more or less the same.

They will not be DL only consoles because only around half of PS3 and 360 owners connect their consoles to the internet, they will still need retailers to help sell the new consoles, and Sony in particular are not going to suddenly give up on Blu-Ray.

And given that it's already too late for Sony or MS to release a new console before the end of 2012, they certainly aren't going to just release an 32X-style upgrade. Tech has moved on sufficiently in the past 6 years to make releasing an incremental upgrade a waste of time and resources.

 

[Chaplain]

What can we expect graphically if these specs are accurate?

 

[ASIS]

This thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Seems to think it's the AMD Trinity. If it's true the Dev kits probably wouldn't even have it yet. That would explain the conflicting rumors about the specs.

So unless Microsoft or Sony are releasing a console in 2012, it's probably Nintendo thats using the AMD Trinity.

is this trinity thing good or bad?

 

[AceBandage]

Depending on the strategy that MS and Sony take there is definitely the possibility of a wii-->PS3 gap for the wiiHD-->PS4. There is enough technology out there to argue the case. If the wiiHD is even remotely close to the 360 powerwise the ps4 and xbox3 have a definite chance of completely blowing the wiiHD out of the water. Whether the two companies decide to take that path is up for some serious debate. Sony is more likely to take the aformentioned path than MS is at this point.

Will the technology exist? Yes.
Will it be viable for CONSOLES? I have serious doubts.
We're talking about a $300 GPU to be able to run the UE3 (which no current single GPU can run, mind you).
And that's just the GPU. And if we're going to be looking at $600 consoles again, then Nintendo is going to destroy the competition.

is this trinity thing good or bad?

If true, it would be oh so good.

 

[carlo6529]

Oh, they Wii2 won't follow the same path as Wii. At least, it won't for the reason you think it will. I doubt Epic's next Unreal Engine will completely abandon current shading architectures. Afterall, they'll want to support things like iPhone Xs and Android X.XX. It will have a fallback pipeline which means games can still be ported to the Wii2. That's significantly different from the Wii and 360/PS3 where the Wii needed very custom code in order to support even the most trivial of things like Normal Mapping.

Honestly, if that is the case, I really don't care then how more powerful it is/isn't compared to the other systems.

 

[Azure J]

This thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Seems to think it's the AMD Trinity. If it's true the Dev kits probably wouldn't even have it yet. That would explain the conflicting rumors about the specs.

So unless Microsoft or Sony are releasing a console in 2012, it's probably Nintendo thats using the AMD Trinity.

This is another good point. What if we're getting reports on what's in the current devkit since Trinity probably won't finalize until later this year/early next? Is there a precedent for something like this happening?

is this trinity thing good or bad?

In my limited understanding of graphics computing tech, trinity is basically AMD's brand new CPU line, Bulldozer, running on a smaller and more cooling efficient die size in a 4 - 8 core setup with a Radeon HD 5XXX series equivalent GPU (I think it's about around a 5570 from the last time I saw anything on it). Having something like this with 1GB of RAM would be stupidly cheap now, let alone at production time next year and offer SSJ levels of awesome.

 

[AceBandage]

This is another good point. What if we're getting reports on what's in the current devkit since Trinity probably won't finalize until later this year/early next? Is there a precedent for something like this happening?

It's certainly not unusual for dev kits to be upgraded months later.

 

[Celine]

Unfortunately, most games require more than two characters and a static background. You could easily make the argument Pilotwings is the most impressive game graphically (among those rendering a whole world of polygons), And not only is it not really that impressive, the framerate is pretty sucky to boot. The 3D does seem to smooth framerate jitteriness out, but I swear that game is dropping to 20 fps a lot of the time.

What IGN said was that 3DS has effects that were more similar to Xbox 360/PS3 than Wii ( that's the shaders ), not that 3DS graphics would be comparable to those platforms.
Also to this day the most impressive 3DS games from graphics perspective are those that run on MT Framework mobile because how well Capcom implemented those effects.

 

[Always-honest]

What can we expect graphically if these specs are accurate?

Mario games to look like the galaxy artwork, hopefully:

jaggies be gone

And for blind people, no, dolphin doesn't look like that yet.

 

[crazy monkey]

this are few of the games that I personally think looked amazing. Developers will do wonders with updated hardware even with just above 360 graphics level. Although I can not say much my personal taste graphics is not that high. I am usually easily satisfied.

Images are from this thread

 

[Big One]

They will not be DL only consoles because only around half of PS3 and 360 owners connect their consoles to the internet, they will still need retailers to help sell the new consoles, and Sony in particular are not going to suddenly give up on Blu-Ray.

And given that it's already too late for Sony or MS to release a new console before the end of 2012, they certainly aren't going to just release an 32X-style upgrade. Tech has moved on sufficiently in the past 6 years to make releasing an incremental upgrade a waste of time and resources.

Got a source for that? Pretty much everyone I know buys those consoles to play online.

Regardless recent tech trends are all about incremental upgrades, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. There's benefits from it by a business standpoint cause if both Microsoft and Sony did that, they'd be releasing both effective hardware for developers to work with at a cheap price. There's nothing wrong with that model, and if a dedicated Kinect console was released I wouldn't be surprised it seeing it running on slightly updated 360 hardware.

 

[Fourth Storm]

This is another good point. What if we're getting reports on what's in the current devkit since Trinity probably won't finalize until later this year/early next? Is there a precedent for something like this happening?

But going from an IBM CPU powered devkit to an AMD final version? Not likely.

 

[Chaplain]

Mario games to look like the galaxy artwork, hopefully:

jaggies be gone

And for blid people, no, dolphin doesn't look like that yet.

So a Mario or Zelda game that looks better than Uncharted 2 or 3? Wow! That is more than enough for me for a next gen Nintendo console.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I don't quite understand why some think the gap will be much smaller this generation, it's not going to be the case.

If we are to assume these Wii HD rumours, to suggest the Xbox 360 (housing 5+ year old architecture) is only going to improve marginally is absolute nonsense.

 

[Always-honest]

So a Mario or Zelda game that looks better than Uncharted 2 or 3? Wow! That is more than enough for me for a next gen Nintendo console.

it would be more than enough for me personally too. Cause i think the difference between the jaggie low res output of the Wii and the PS3 is quite big. way too big, and especially on a HDTV. (i'd like even better ofcourse..)

 

[abstract alien]

So a Mario or Zelda game that looks better than Uncharted 2 or 3? Wow! That is more than enough for me for a next gen Nintendo console.

Mario will probably run at double the framerate, and zelda will look insane at 30fps.

 

[Azure J]

But going from an IBM CPU powered devkit to an AMD final version? Not likely.

Yeah, the whole different instruction set and what not would be another deterrent for anything else brewing out of that idea.

 

[Xun]

I don't quite understand why some think the gap will be much smaller this generation, it's not going to be the case.

If we are to assume these Wii HD rumours, to suggest the Xbox 360 (housing 5+ year old architecture) is only going to improve marginally is absolute nonsense.

Exactly.

I'm baffled by the responses here.

 

[AceBandage]

I don't quite understand why some think the gap will be much smaller this generation, it's not going to be the case.

If we are to assume these Wii HD rumours, to suggest the Xbox 360 (housing 5+ year old architecture) is only going to improve marginally is absolute nonsense.

Graphically, it won't be huge. It'll be smaller than the jump from XBox - 360.
All that extra power will be going into lighting and particles and AA and physics. Which, I hate to say, is not what most people look at. The average consumer wouldn't be able to tell the different between MSAA on or off.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

it would be more than enough for me personally too. Cause i think the difference between the jaggie low res output of the Wii and the PS3 is quite big. way too big, and especially on a HDTV. (i'd like even better ofcourse..)

EXACTLY.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Only the robot is being rendered. The city is real footage.

Wrong.

 

[gofreak]

It'll be a far smaller gap than Wii->PS3.
The N6 will be above the 360 and be able to handle pretty much all the little graphical effects that the PS4/720 can, just with less geometry and less AA.

It's impossible to make statements like this. Well, the first will probably be true, but the second...it depends on too many things we just don't know about.

All I'll say is: if Nintendo's going to release a system to straddle the tail end of this generation and the next, then they better make sure it can do both confidently.

That's if they do indeed want to capture the hardcore, and steward a platform that's comprehensive in terms of its content support and availability.

Otherwise they could end making an awkward bridging system that doesn't quite sit well.

The relative timing of all this though, of each platform, and the choices they make will probably make for a very interesting transition though. Less conventional than the last even.

 

[TheExecutive]

Will the technology exist? Yes.
Will it be viable for CONSOLES? I have serious doubts.
We're talking about a $300 GPU to be able to run the UE3 (which no current single GPU can run, mind you).
And that's just the GPU. And if we're going to be looking at $600 consoles again, then Nintendo is going to destroy the competition.




If true, it would be oh so good.

If Nintendo goes with a system that is marginally more powerful than the 360 then my guess is that there will be a generational gap in graphics from the other two hardware makers just like this generation.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I look foward to the reveal where most of not all of the games shown look worse than late generation PS3/360 titles.

Are you not being a bit pessimistic?

 

[thefro]

Here's the page for the Fusion, which is the family that the Trinity chipset is part of:
http://sites.amd.com/us/fusion/apu/Pages/fusion.aspx

Check this out this demo... this has to be the tech they're using for the video streaming to the controller screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF8omefUZik

 

[abstract alien]

Graphically, it won't be huge. It'll be smaller than the jump from XBox - 360.
All that extra power will be going into lighting and particles and AA and physics. Which, I hate to say, is not what most people look at. The average consumer wouldn't be able to tell the different between MSAA on or off.

I'm not sure if I would be able to tell the difference with the game actually in motion...

 

[Eteric Rice]

Exactly.

I'm baffled by the responses here.

Something about wattage and not being able to keep the system cool when consoles need such a small box (in comparison to PCs).

Also, rising development costs I guess.

 

[Pathetic Basement Virgin]

Nintendo fans have got to be the most forgiving fans ever. I like Nintendo (sometimes) but I'm amazed that people are willing to accept 360-level power or 'just a notch above' this current gen.

Even if they have a better online system, more games etc. all that, it's like people magically forget the Wii for some reason and are okay with Nintendo again. It's amazing. Everyone just welcomes then with open arms no matter what they do. It's like those stockholm girlfriends that get beaten and then when the boyfriend does 1 nice thing for them they love them again (and forget about/ignore all the beating).

For me personally the Wii's terrible'ness will linger and won't go out of my mind for a looooong time. So they really need to court me at E3 with some mind blowing stuff and not this 512mb ram 360-level bullshit. They need to show like 10 core games from various franchises and some new IPs also developed by Nintendo, like really go all out. And no Wii Sports new IP bullshit, that's cheating. It needs to be something that can rival Mario/Zelda status. I'm tired of the laziness and print money strategy bullshit, if they go for that again there's no way I'd support it.

Actually you sound like the fat chick who is always trying to tell her friend to leave a good dude because she doesn't like him.

 

[Curufinwe]

Got a source for that? Pretty much everyone I know buys those consoles to play online.

Regardless recent tech trends are all about incremental upgrades, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. There's benefits from it by a business standpoint cause if both Microsoft and Sony did that, they'd be releasing both effective hardware for developers to work with at a cheap price. There's nothing wrong with that model, and if a dedicated Kinect console was released I wouldn't be surprised it seeing it running on slightly updated 360 hardware.

Yeah, but I was wrong. The "around half" I was thinking of was actually for the Wii - which is 54%. The PS3 number is 78% and it's 73% for the 360. Figures are for the US, so the percentage might be higher in some countries and much lower in countries with less developed broadband internet.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28058/Study_PS3_Has_Highest_Percentage_Of_Connected_Consoles.php

There is going to be at least a 7-year gap between the 360 and next Xbox, so an incremental upgrade just doesn't make sense. This isn't like an iPad or an iPhone where there's a new version out every year. Microsoft could release a new console in 2012 or 2013 that sold for US $400 and still packed in significantly better hardware than what's inside the 360.