Its not? There is several times more storage space on Blu Ray discs.
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Could you link me to some of this stuff? Genuinely interested in what Nintendo's setup looks like. Whatever their set up though, I do truly believe that there are stratifications amongst all devs, and that the top tier devs are truly a cut above the rest. The results speak for themselves, otherwise we wouldn't be saying things like MS finally has a title in 334's Halo 4 that can hang with ND, Santa Monica et al.'s best
2x Blu Ray is slower in most real world scenarios than 12x DVD.
Yes it is. There definitely is a trade of.
plagiarize
Banned
Well I mean, it was only really hampered by the low seek speeds of early blu ray drives. A faster Blu-ray drive would have been superior to DVD in every way. Many multi platform games have been hampered in some way by the DVD disk sizes. Games were still good, obviously but it did limit things in certain ways without question. Same with no standard harddrive.
JordanN
Banned
Jett Rocket?
Edit: Also, I'm not sure how you can berate so many Gamecube devs. Effort was almost as consistent as third party Xbox games. The only games that looked like PS2 were direct ports but apart from that, exclusives or games that lead on it generally looked better.
lwilliams3
Member
It should be noted that great graphics doesn't necessarily require a high budget. IIRC, for example Witcher 2 is known for having impressive graphics but was not as expensive as some of the other mentioned games.
Yes, it's one of the revelation i'm the most proud of
I think i already touched upon that, but to be clear: third-parties received the month before E3 the mass production dev kits, which featured a second coaxial port for a second DRC to be plugged into. But this addition was just future-proofing the dev kit, as the solution for 2 gamepads support was just found by the engineers, and third-parties were warned of that around E3 2012. So when Reggie announced it during the conference, it was really fresh, and far from being ready to be made available to studios.
And it comes for the moment with some hindrance (shared bandwidth and some other problems but they will resolve those, if it's not already the case).
Honestly, i think the Wii U has enough power -even more after all the recent info about all the improvements developers have reached with the latest dev kit, sdk, etc- to handle three screens without too much sacrifices in terms of visuals. And there are workarounds anyway, like lowering the complexity of the scene/resolution (the content could be sub-480p on the gamepads), having a simple leaderboard, map, or lower quality spectator mode on the TV to free more power for both the gamepad (in a local FPS for example), etc.
pieatorium
Member
Wages in Poland being alot lower is certainly a factor there
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Witcher was made in a foreign country where labor is cheaper, though I do recall Evan Wells starting that UC2 cost roughly 20 million. Depends on management and efficiency I guess, long as you're not SE sticking people on modeling rocks for 2 weeks you should be fine lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4fgvtBKIH8
If they can reach that level of visuals they will have already bested current consoles imo.
And sure Retro will one up that.
Yes, it's one of the revelation i'm the most proud of
I think i already touched upon that, but to be clear: third-parties received the month before E3 the mass production dev kits, which featured a second coaxial port for a second DRC to be plugged into. But this addition was just future-proofing the dev kit, as the solution for 2 gamepads support was just found by the engineers, and third-parties were warned of that around E3 2012. So when Reggie announced it during the conference, it was really fresh, and far from being ready to be made available to studios.
And it comes for the moment with some hindrance (shared bandwidth and some other problems but they will resolve those, if it's not already the case).
Honestly, i think the Wii U has enough power -even more after all the recent info about all the improvements developers have reached with the latest dev kit, sdk, etc- to handle three screens without too much sacrifices in terms of visuals. And there are workarounds anyway, like lowering the complexity of the scene/resolution (the content could be sub-480p on the gamepads), having a simple leaderboard, map, or lower quality spectator mode on the TV to free more power for both the gamepad (in a local FPS for example), etc.
Really nice!
I always try to avoid this or any power/specs related thread because there's not too much for me in it anyway so I don't really know what are those improvements with the latest dev kits, sdk and all that stuff you're talking about but if you're confident about Wii U's power then I guess that's enough for me.
You have been right before and you're closer to this thing than me so I appreciate your answer.
Hopefully we won't have to wait that long to see the first games with this feature.
You are equating two situations that aren't equal or at least relatively comparable.
The GameCube came out later than the already well-established PlayStation 2, didn't have any remarkable sales success and was restricted by a very heavy limit on disc space compared to the PlayStation 2 DVD-5 and DVD-9 (dual-layer) formats. Getting big games to fit small 8cm discs was no easy task. It's easy to see why developers and publishers weren't interested all that much in investing in a modestly successful platform that had very unique technical challenges.
Compare that to the Xbox, which was of equal success, but featured a standard DVD drive and an architecture that was extremely easy to program for: Publishers put out a wide range of third-party games for that console. It's pretty clear that Nintendo's technical direction is partly to blame for the lack of GameCubes success
With the current generation, developers weren't able to simply ignore the Xbox 360 due to its already established install base compared to the PS3 (and the PS3 has its own technical challenges). It would also have been unwise for publishers to only support one platform, as they would want Sony as a counter-balance to Microsoft (so MS wouldn't be able to dictate terms and conditions unhindered). Multiplatform games are, by necessity, designed to fit DVD-9 (as well as the lack of a guaranteed caching space on Core 360 models). This clearly "hampers" game developers, but as end-users, we don't get to see that process.
That DVD-9 isn't always sufficient is clearly demonstrated by the fact that Microsoft started allowing multi-disc games for the 360 some years ago.
Really nice!
I always try to avoid this or any power/specs related thread because there's not too much for me in it anyway so I don't really know what are those improvements with the latest dev kits, sdk and all that stuff you're talking about but if you're confident about Wii U's power then I guess that's enough for me.
You have been right before and you're closer to this thing than me so I appreciate your answer.
Hopefully we won't have to wait that long to see the first games with this feature.
Unfortunately, from third-parties, it won't come until at least the 2nd generation games (read: their second batch of releases on Wii U).
I wasn't expecting anything from anyone until at least late 2013 but you sound more optimistic than me in that regard
Never mind Skyward Sword. They had inverse kinematics in Ocarina of Time.
You can't really draw any conclusions from what we saw of their mocap studio in the ND though. It just looked like a random gymnasium.
Agreed graphics have a lot more to do with skill/technical know-how than cash.They are a few really good looking indie titles out there for example. Big budgets just allow you to produce more content because of much larger teams. But with a small budget you can make an amazing looking game just more with limited scale and scope.
Not that this is in any way surprising, but Nintendo uses a Vicon mocap system. Cameras look like T-Series, so probably Vicon MX.
frankie_baby
Member
Is that good?
Probably. It's Vicon's top-of-the-line system.
frankie_baby
Member
Hmm, I'm going to have to crack out Ocarina of Time and have a look for that, as I never noticed it before (although I suppose it's something you're more likely to notice the lack of than the existence of).
On the mo-cap comment, I was just pointing out that they have a mo-cap studio, so it's obviously something they do a fair bit of.
Smurfman256
Member
cough cough ilomilo cough cough.
Neither am I.
I simply googled a little. Vicon lists Nintendo as a customer, so I looked for a screenshot from the relevant Nintendo Direct, and lo and behold: the cameras in the mocap studio look exactly like Vicon T-Series (large, quadratic mount for the strobe, characteristic handle on top). And T-Series are the default cameras for MX systems.
Apophis2036
Banned
In all honesty i was blown away by that tech demo in June 2011 but now at the end of 2012 it's really not that impressive compared to the likes of Uncharted 3, Halo 4, God of War Ascension, Gears of War Judgement, Last of Us and Beyond imo.
For what it's worth i think the WiiU Zelda will far, far exceed those visuals anyway as that demo was made by a small team, in a short space of time, using TP assets on the very first WiiU dev kit.
I think the Zelda demo has a realistic painting vibe while the games you listed aimed at a real world vibe. Huge difference imo.
XtremeXpider
Member
Serious question here. I'd like to see this living painting because all gameplay stuff I saw looked like a good FPS but nothing particularly amazing.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Bahahaha! Muramasa: The Demon Blade fits that bill better than Halo 4 any day.
Smurfman256
Member
Ummm...the whole point of Skyward Sword's art style was to be a 30FPS impressionist painting...
DonMigs85
Member
Complete with dithering and posterization
Bravo.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The Halo 4/Skyward Sword/ZeldaHDtech comparison is exactly what I was referring to when I said people will argue what 'graphics' define the apex of a generation, and what bests them, when there's no technical knowledge behind the arguments themselves. It's all just preference and taste in art and style.
Like when people rant about how the two Galaxy games are among the most gorgeous of this generation. And I'd agree. But by no stretch of the imagination are they technical wizardly that matches what is and has been accomplished on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. But that doesn't really matter, because people still think it looks good.
The same will be true for much of the Wii U, especially when art styles differ. Unless we're talking about quantifiable, measurable technical components of a measuring engine, no game looks better/worse beyond what you, on a purely subjective level, prefer. This is why I've argued that if Retro's game isn't stylised towards realism (and by this I mean proportionally, not necessarily a modern setting), it won't matter if it is or isn't technically more advanced than current generation offerings. People will be divided and not everybody will agree it looks better. Same will go for EAD's offering if it's anything like their usual style.
Like when people rant about how the two Galaxy games are among the most gorgeous of this generation. And I'd agree. But by no stretch of the imagination are they technical wizardly that matches what is and has been accomplished on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. But that doesn't really matter, because people still think it looks good.
The same will be true for much of the Wii U, especially when art styles differ. Unless we're talking about quantifiable, measurable technical components of a measuring engine, no game looks better/worse beyond what you, on a purely subjective level, prefer. This is why I've argued that if Retro's game isn't stylised towards realism (and by this I mean proportionally, not necessarily a modern setting), it won't matter if it is or isn't technically more advanced than current generation offerings. People will be divided and not everybody will agree it looks better. Same will go for EAD's offering if it's anything like their usual style.
DonMigs85
Member
To be fair I think you can force it to run in 32-bit color in Dolphin right? That cleans it up a lot, but also makes it look more cel-shady.
Xbox had a larger handful of exclusives that looked clearly impossible on the PS2, and a lot of Xbox ports were obviously superior to their PS2 counterparts as well.
JordanN
Banned
Ok. Slightly less consistent. With the Xbox being the more popular and powerful console (i.e it was PC port heaven), it would be weird if it didn't see a bigger gap compared to PS2 and Gamecube.
However, I still stand by my notion that exclusives/lead plats were not something to look down upon. I've actually looked back at some Gamecube titles that I either never knew of or ignored as a youth and was surprised to see what devs were doing.
There were multiplats like Powerpuff Girls or Winnie the Pooh that were taking advantage of the Gamecube's TEV. Other games went for generally higher polycounts and or better textures.
Now, am I going to list every Gamecube game and point out which was a PS2 port and which used the hardware? No. But I think there are enough reviews out there that give an idea third party's were actually trying and I would be happy to direct you to some.
It's already happening now. Nano Assault Neo and Nintendo's own games are doing stuff that aren't possible on the Xbox 360.
Also, check out this new discovery. Global Illumination comes to Mario.
Nano assault neo doesn't look impressive or appear to be doing anything not possible on the Xbox 360.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Also, check out this new discovery. Global Illumination comes to Mario.
Those are dynamic light sources, not global illumination, and is an effect that has been used in varying degrees going way back to the Nintendo 64.
JordanN
Banned
Already acknowledged. See the previous two pages.
Smiles and Cries
Member
5 Days
21 Hours
56 Minutes
A Mod like U should have done the the Launch OT for us EC
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Yes, but posts like this:
To me indicate you still don't really understand dynamic light sources and why it appearing in NSMBU is not really a big deal, nor does it negate NSMBU using lightmaps elsewhere. It's a pretty simple effect that has been used for two, three generations of consoles. Torches in Ocarina of Time, from memory, had a dynamic light source attached.
I think Cheesemeister is doing it maybe? Or Rosti.
Smiles and Cries
Member
JordanN
Banned
I never said NSMBU didn't use light maps. I was only discussing the bonuses dynamic light sources have over static light maps.
And simple becomes relative depending on how complex an environment is. Games feature more polygons than what the N64 had to put up with which means more work.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think we're doing one thread, as the launch dates are all pretty close, and it would be nice to have a single launch thread alongside the various game OTs. Depends what Rosti and co want to do I guess.
Yes, but my point was the effect in NSMBU is nothing special or noteworthy, which you do seem to understand.
Yes, but my point was the effect in NSMBU is nothing special or noteworthy, which you do seem to understand.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
I asked Rosti and he said it might end up being two or three days before launch when it's posted.
StreetsAhead
Member
The devs said it was, but who knows if that's true since all their retail games are on Nintendo platforms, iirc.
Fahrenheit
Banned
I think at the $300 price point it's gonna be hard for the Wii U to be competitive after the launch rush. Really think they priced to to high. Would rather have thme dropped the tablet gamepad and sold the console new for $200 and sold the tablet add on for $100. Got a feeling most games will ignore it or utilize it poorly much like the Wii Mote
Baconsammy
Banned
The holiday 360 and PS3 bundles are definitely more attractive in regard to price/value, but Wii U has the benefit of being the newer console. What sucks is that games that have already had price cuts on 360/PS3 are coming out full price on Wii U. That's lame. Paying 60 for Mass Effect 3, Darksiders 2, Batman etc when they're much cheaper elsewhere may be a turnoff for some people. Hopefully there will be a lot of sales on the games, otherwise they're not going to sell well (other than Mario).
Throwaway123456789
Member
You were implying that dynamic light sources are some kind of super taxing special effect that is special in any way. It's a very simple effect used in hundreds of games over the last three generations.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I'm sorry this post is full of bad ideas on Pachter levels. The gamepad is what the Wii U is all about to isolate it would mean many games not using Off TV play.
They are already selling at a loss it is not a $599 console, this is why we are talking about these low Specs in here. It should do fine after holiday Rush if they keep the games coming. Games > Price