Oh the self-crippling part of the CPU and its correction wasn't translated in a boost from 10 fps to 60fps. It's just one factor, but noticeable for my sources projects, amidst many (at least 5 revisions of dev kit, new SDK, optimizations of middleware, engines, etc.).
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Oh the self-crippling part of the CPU and its correction wasn't translated in a boost from 10 fps to 60fps. It's just one factor, but noticeable for my sources projects, amidst many (at least 5 revisions of dev kit, new SDK, optimizations of middleware, engines, etc.).
Smurfman256
Member
Does anybody have any idea what Wii U's ACTUAL code-name is since the model number is WUP-001?
Apophis2036
Banned
3 core OoO, higher clocked version of the Wii CPU.
Separate Audio Chip.
~ 400 GFLOP 2011 feature set GPU.
1GB of Ram for games.
1GB of Ram for the OS.
Maybe 2x a 360 on paper at a push, they better hope Sony and MS don't do another 10x power leap for PS4 / 720 or it's goodbye next gen multi platform games...
frankie_baby
Member
We. Really have no idea of the GFLOPS of the GPU
DragonSworne
Banned
The console is almost already out and its specs are still "rumoured"?
TAS
Member
Seriously..like WTF? Is Nintendo using alien technology that cannot be identified? lol
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
They dont want people to know its internals until launch day.
They don't want people to know period...
A. Because it's pretty poor for a 2012 launch console.
B. Because it's as powerful as Nintendo needed it to be.
C. Because once the PS4 and Xbox Next arrive, only members of the NDF will stay loyal to it.
Why do this?
Captain Smoker
Member
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Why do what.?
As discussed further up this page and on the previous page, the CPU is more than just three higher clocked Broadways and, for one core at least, the "enhancements" are significant.
On the GPU front, we don't really have any idea of the gigafloppage we're looking at. I still think we're looking at around the 600 mark, not that it's a worthwhile measure of GPU performance in any case.
It's also worth adding in the dual-core ARM chip, which handles I/O and presumably some OS-level stuff.
Edit: Also, one of the only hard numbers we have: a 25GB (single layer) optical disc with a 22.5MB/s read speed.
Was that really necessary?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Seems rather pointless... people are going to find out before PS4 and Xbox 720 etc anyway and the general public won't care either way, game visuals would be the only thing with an effect. And the only people that would care, graphics tech enthusaists, would get the information pretty quickly regardless.
Frankfurter
Member
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
We don't know the specs because there's nobody to leak the specs. The only people who posses systems, excluding Nintendo, are developers and approved press. Both are under strict NDAs not to disclose classified information (such as the raw specifications), and the NDAs are so absurdly strict as to prevent press from revealing certain details about the OS while limiting recorded footage.
Outside of the leaks we've had here and elsewhere, there's literally nobody in the world who could do an official dissection of the hardware and get away with it. We don't know the specs because Nintendo doesn't feel you need to know, and we won't know until we either get a dev leak of greater specifics than we've already got, or post-launch folk rip the system apart.
I'm still erring on the side of the system being more powerful than the utmost cynics give it credit for, but nowhere near as beefy as the more optimistic are expecting. And I also expect, by and large, neither group will actually have any concrete, definite specifications of the system for some time, most wont even understand the info when they get it, and both groups will throw around games they think look good/bad as examples of hardware strength/weaknesses.
Outside of the leaks we've had here and elsewhere, there's literally nobody in the world who could do an official dissection of the hardware and get away with it. We don't know the specs because Nintendo doesn't feel you need to know, and we won't know until we either get a dev leak of greater specifics than we've already got, or post-launch folk rip the system apart.
I'm still erring on the side of the system being more powerful than the utmost cynics give it credit for, but nowhere near as beefy as the more optimistic are expecting. And I also expect, by and large, neither group will actually have any concrete, definite specifications of the system for some time, most wont even understand the info when they get it, and both groups will throw around games they think look good/bad as examples of hardware strength/weaknesses.
Well, some games just need to read an entire disc in 1.1 seconds
fixed
The last paragraph could apply to any piece of gaming hardware (except the lack of concrete specs, I suppose), although I do in general agree with you. I'd caution against anyone expecting too much from a teardown, though, as the only easily determinable specs we don't know about are the RAM type and bus width, which are almost certainly DDR3 and 128bit respectively.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
A tear down wont tell us anything unless someone X-rays the main chips, that's the only real way to determine what's in there, even then, the actual clock speeds will have to come from DEV leaks.
Fourth Storm
Member
A few musings on the much contested topic of the CPU: Just how compatible would a 476fp core be with Broadway? Granted, certain things we know would be added to a 470 series design, such as the write gather pipe and DMA, but other than that, could it run Broadway code natively?
I'm looking at block diagrams for both right now and certain aspects seem to line up nicely, while others don't. What is the significance of the reservation stations for each pipeline on Broadway? Are they basically small registers? The 476fp seems to lack these, although maybe it's just the diagram I'm referencing.
Also interesting that the FPU is a separate core on the 476fp. I wonder if Nintendo would try to get away with only one. Would be good enough to match Broadway (if they are compatible, that is, which goes back to my question) and if most of the graphics/physics processing is done on one core...
I'm looking at block diagrams for both right now and certain aspects seem to line up nicely, while others don't. What is the significance of the reservation stations for each pipeline on Broadway? Are they basically small registers? The 476fp seems to lack these, although maybe it's just the diagram I'm referencing.
Also interesting that the FPU is a separate core on the 476fp. I wonder if Nintendo would try to get away with only one. Would be good enough to match Broadway (if they are compatible, that is, which goes back to my question) and if most of the graphics/physics processing is done on one core...
A&B I can agree with C is wrong & PS4 & Xbox Next isn't going to have much of a effect on the Wii U unless they somehow cater to the same market as Nintendo at a good price.
most of the people who will be buying the Wii U or any console for that matter will not have any type of loyalty to the company, it will be because it fits their need & has the price that they are comfortable spending on the product.
I think if Kinect 2 can somehow make the Xbox Next more Kid friendly & seem like the better choice as a gift for families with kids of all ages over the Wii U because of the Tablet not being so kid friendly it will be the Wii U's biggest threat but other than that Nintendo will be the Go to product when people are shopping for the whole family or their younger kids.
Yes, but the RAM will be easy to determine, as it's not a custom part. Just read the code on top and put it into google, and you can find out the type and number of data pins per chip. You'll also get the maximum supported speed, although not the actual speed it's running at.
CPU and GPU are of course a different matter, and I don't see anyone doing a proper job on them without expecting a large cheque in return.
A random question but right now you seem to be the only one capable of answering it.
You were one of the first ones to know (or at least announce) about the two gamepad support being a late in development addition for Wii U. Apparently, Nintendo is already working on titles that support this feature. What can you say about it? (if you know anything) and from your point of view, what would be the impact for the system to render a game with different views/perspectives etc thrice (gamepad+gamepad+TV)? It was already stated the games would run at 30fps with two gamepads working at the same time but is there any other compromise the system has to do in order to archive dual gamepad gameplay?
I thought it would be as easy as a normal multiplayer mode where the screen splits for each player but I guess streaming to the gamepad takes way more work than that
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The impact will be similar to the impact of current split screen games. Frame rate, visual fidelity, etc, will need to be compromised to varying degrees as each developer sees fit (assuming the game was made to take full advantage of the system to begin with of course). Some will make the game look considerably worse to maintain the frame rate, others may balance it out, there's no single universal answer to such things. Some games might render completely different complex 3D views, others may show the same single screen 2D view on all three displays, just utilizing two GamePads to offer touch controls to two players etc.
The 30fps is the video feed streamed to the GamePads because they only have enough bandwidth for a single low latency 60fps stream, which they need to split to support two, it has nothing to do with the actual frame rate of the game. The game logic could still be 60fps, the GamePads would each get alternating 30, for a total of 60 still. On the TV it could still show as 60fps as well.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I am more excited to find out who is going to PUSH the Wii U to its limits and what that game looks like rather than the numbers. Numbers need someone to use them.
Portugeezer
Member
Meh, I stopped caring about the specs.
Early ports already look as good as late 360/PS3 games, when you remember how 360 and PS3 early ports looked then this leaves a lot of improvement for Wii U graphics. End product is what matters, I have PC for high-end stuff anyway.
Early ports already look as good as late 360/PS3 games, when you remember how 360 and PS3 early ports looked then this leaves a lot of improvement for Wii U graphics. End product is what matters, I have PC for high-end stuff anyway.
I don't expect to see anything on par with the very best of this gen for a long long time
That's pretty easy to answer: Retro or EAD/ EAD Tokyo. Maybe Monolith.
If you're talking production values, yes. Assuming you're talking tech, the best of the current generation should be topped within a couple of months. And hardly anybody will notice, as "tech" isn't really all that visible.I don't expect to see anything on par with the very best of this gen for a long long time
I don't expect to see anything on par with the very best of this gen for a long long time
I expect it to be soon, Retro E3. Imo that will be one par if not better with all the latest ps3/X360 stuff.
This could be used for hardware-based compatibility with Wii (and GameCube downloadable games) emulation? What are your thoughts?
Regards
Portugeezer
Member
I don't expect to see anything on par with the very best of this gen for a long long time
You mean the very best on PC, right?
That may depend on whether Retro stick to making 60fps games, Wii U is powerful but a steady 60fps is always taxing on what they can do visually.
I don't expect to see anything on par with the very best of this gen for a long long time
Well if it be anyone who can do it "soon" I'd say it'd be Nintendo's 1st party in a few years time. And it would either be a Zelda or a Metroid title.
JordanN
Banned
It's already happening now. Nano Assault Neo and Nintendo's own games are doing stuff that aren't possible on the Xbox 360.
Also, check out this new discovery. Global Illumination comes to Mario.
I agree. I doubt third parties want to go crazy with budget on Wii U, and Nintendo won't overblow its franchises.
Well, unless the Wii U can solidify its position very quickly on the market and become the standard of the industry. In this case, everything is possible.
frankie_baby
Member
I doubt very much that third parties will go budget crazy either, then again I doubt there'll be many 3rd party AAA exclusives anyway, the only thing I can see in my crystal ball is that if zombi u is a several million selling mega hit it will probably get a bigger budget sequel, Nintendo however isn't completely averse to spending big on its big games Zelda games tend to have pretty huge budgets and I doubt galaxy was cheap
Backfoggen
Banned
It's already happening now. Nano Assault Neo and Nintendo's own games are doing stuff that aren't possible on the Xbox 360.
Also, check out this new discovery. Global Illumination comes to Mario.
Those are just dynamic light sources.
Interesting to say at least
I had a vague notion about how the bandwitdth would work in this case. Thanks for the reply. I think I'm(was) a little worried specifically about rendering completely different complex 3D views. Playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros or any FPS/TPS with a friend or your sibblings or girlfriend but you mom is using the TV.
Gameplay wise it also brings some interesting mechanics to the table.
Like, hiding your items, combos or even yourself from the other player sounds heavenly.
Thanks again for your reply
Main 3D Mario says hi too
Apophis2036
Banned
I thought it was all but confirmed that because of the low power draw of the system that 600 GFLOPs was a bit too much, if it's even 480 i will be happy, exactly twice as much as the 360's but of course you are correct that there is so much more to a GPU's power than just it's FLOP count.
The GPU's power rumour in the WUST's started off at ~1TF and slowly came down to BG 'calculating' around 600 GFLOPs would be possible but a lot of people doubted whether the system could push to that because of the power draw, who knows, if turns out as high as 600 then i will be over the moon.
Was just giving the guy a short, quick answer as no one seemed to have answered him
.I understand Nintendo cannot compete with Sony and MS in a tech arms race anymore but i still think they should have pushed WiiU to a 1TF GPU and 2GB's of Ram for games. It would have made it so much easier to convince third party developers to port next gen games over if the rumoured PS4 specs of a 1.8TF GPU and 4GB's of Ram are correct.
1GB of Ram and a 600 FGFLOP GPU is going to be hard enough to 'sell' to third parties never mind ~ 400 GFLOPs...
.Of course none of this is confirmed and is just going off past 'speculations'.
JordanN
Banned
Care to explain the difference to me?
Windom Earle
Member
It's already happening now. Nano Assault Neo and Nintendo's own games are doing stuff that aren't possible on the Xbox 360.
Also, check out this new discovery. Global Illumination comes to Mario.
Nano Assault looks nice, but it does not exactly look mindblowing.
I'd be surprised if we see anything that comes close to the best of PS360 anytime soon. Maybe the new Retro/Zelda/3d Mario, but those are quite far away it seems.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
With global illumination, if light hits surface A and reflects to surface B, the lighting on surface B is affected by the color of surface A. It's usually pretty subtle, and even if it is present in NSMBU I don't think we could tell in a GIF of that quality.
lightchris
Member
Global illumination usually means light bouncing off from surfaces. Read the wikipedia article or look at image comparisons, should be self-explanatory.
edit: too late..
Well, they can, but they obviously decide not to.
MadeInBeats
Banned
I thought it was all but confirmed that because of the low power draw of the system that 600 GFLOPs was a bit too much, if it's even 480 i will be happy, exactly twice as much as the 360's but of course you are correct that there is so much more to a GPU's power than just it's FLOP count.
The GPU's power rumour in the WUST's started off at ~1TF and slowly came down to BG 'calculating' around 600 GFLOPs would be possible but a lot of people doubted whether the system could push to that because of the power draw, who knows, if turns out as high as 600 then i will be over the moon.
Was just giving the guy a short, quick answer as no one seemed to have answered him
I understand Nintendo cannot compete with Sony and MS in a tech arms race anymore but i still think they should have pushed WiiU to a 1TF GPU and 2GB's of Ram for games. It would have made it so much easier to convince third party developers to port next gen games over if the rumoured PS4 specs of a 1.8TF GPU and 4GB's of Ram are correct.
1GB of Ram and a 600 FGFLOP GPU is going to be hard enough to 'sell' to third parties never mind ~ 400 GFLOPs...
Of course none of this is confirmed and is just going off past 'speculations'.
From the Iwata Asks, it's already been confirmed that the Wii U is a very tightly designed, balanced and power efficient machine, so it would be crude to apply PC PSU = GFLOP'esc calculations.
I think Ideaman said, maybe the Wii U is only this much on paper, but [because of its architecture] it can 'fake'[sic] this many numbers.
JordanN
Banned
Well it's a launch game where most of development was spent preparing an engine for the hardware and making sure it runs smoothly so expecting something mind blowing is 99% out the question.
But for what it does (attempting to push the hardware while meeting launch deadlines), it's amazing.
Technically, they can. However, the last two times they went for power, the N64 and GameCube, they got rewarded by being rejected by the core and 2nd and 3rd place. Their underpowered vs the competition consoles have won by miles (NES, GB, GBC, GBA, DS, 3DS) and the SNES barely won it's generation.
And they don't have the market diversity to allow overbuilding like MS does. MS could close the Xbox division tomorrow and the MS shareholders would line up to give Ballmer a hug. Nintendo can't bet the farm. They're a stay-the-course, experimental-but-with-fallbacks kind of company.
Backfoggen
Banned
There is no light bounce. The lights affect their environment in a straight forward way, light hits object and that's it.
GI in that scenario would be pretty useless anyways.
It was still smaller scaled compared to competition's AAA games. And I doubt Nintendo is going to do a Rockstar and put a $ 100 Million budget for any of its games.