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[Saint Gregory]

There was near flawless Emulation of all top N64 games in 1998. Ultra HLE I think it was called, and you didn't even need a monster computer, most basic graphics cards could do Mario and Goldeneye perfectly in 480p.

Ps1 was the same thing, on PC you could play many games in 1998. And DC wasn't fully 'next gen' it was released in 1998. You could play some PS1 games on DC via emulation early in 2000 if I recall correctly (Gran Turrismo and Metal Gear)

Really, Post 16-bit, only difficult architecture consoles (Ps2, PS3, Saturn etc) or ones not worth it because most of their games are on PC anyway (Xboxes) aren't emulated before the end of their gen. Gamecube was already pretty well emulated, so the Wii was easier than usual, but it's not unprecedented.

Wow, I had no idea. I didn't hear about any of those emulators until well into the PS2/Xbox/GC generation.

I actually just checked and there are already working emualtors for the 360 and PS3 as well so I guess it's nearly as bad of a situation as I thought.

 

[Mastperf]

So if people are expecting the Wii U to be the Dreamcast of generation 8, then does that make Durango the PS2 and PS4 the GameCube (in power, of course. who knows about sales. Anybody who expects such a massive leap in power as from generations 6 to 7 is out of their minds.)?

Dreamcast was a sizable jump in visuals and horsepower day 1. I see nothing that makes people think the WiiU can be the Dreamcast of next-gen.

 

[Smurfman256]

Dreamcast was a sizable jump in visuals and horsepower day 1. I see nothing that makes people think the WiiU can be the Dreamcast of next-gen.

Games in the Dreamcast era didn't have the massively-tight deadlines that they do now.

 

[Mastperf]

What exactly does that prove? The WiiU hasn't accomplished what the DC did with regards to the previous gen and thus hasn't earned the distinction of being next-gens Dreamcast.
The WiiU will have to earn it's place regardless of the "potential" it might or might not have in the long run.

 

[Smurfman256]

What exactly does that prove? The WiiU hasn't accomplished what the DC did with regards to the previous gen and thus hasn't earned the distinction of being next-gens Dreamcast.
The WiiU will have to earn it's place regardless of the "potential" it might or might not have in the long run.

What is proves is that nowdays, devs have neither the time nor the money to make next-gen ports look any better. It's much cheaper just to compile the code onto Wii U and add touchscreen additions than to build the game from scratch (and said games made like that will look better [oh, and ZombiU started out as a 360 game]). Building the game from the ground up for a new console is A) expensive and B) time consuming. Most of the launch titles that are third-party are literally direct ports from the Xbox 360 just because it's much cheaper. And the ports are also getting outsourced to other companies just becasue the original devs don't have the time and money to make the port by launch window. So the 4th-party devs really have no choice but to do a straight-port visually. Hopefully when Durango and PS4 launch, Wii U will get ports from those consoles instead of the now-confirmed less powerful systems.

 

[Mastperf]

But how does any of that prove the WiiU deserves to be called the Dreamcast of next gen? There's no proof or reason to believe the WiiU will be the same kind of leap over the PS360 as the DC was over the Playstation, N64 and Saturn.
All you've given is reasons why the launch games aren't better but that alone isn't nearly enough to make that kind of jump in logic.

 

[Smurfman256]

But how does any of that prove the WiiU deserves to be called the Dreamcast of next gen? There's no proof or reason to believe the WiiU will be the same kind of leap over the PS360 as the DC was over the Playstation, N64 and Saturn.
All you've given is reasons why the launch games aren't better but that alone isn't nearly enough to make that kind of jump in logic.

RAM and the GPU. Just by RAM alone, it has more than twice the useable amount of RAM that the PS360 do (not to mention that this is Nintendo we are talking about. Nintendo=FAAAAAAST RAM which could equal maybe 4X performance increase instead of 2X [?]). And multiple developers have said that the GPU is alot better than the current consoles and has the capacity of pumping out much nicer visuals.

On a side note, is there anything that the Zelda demo on the half-speed alpha kits that the 360 couldn't render?

 

[Mastperf]

If you're actually expecting a Dreamcast---> Playstation/Saturn/ N64 difference with the WiiU and Ps360 then I honestly don't know what to say. You are likely setting yourself up for a disappointment.
I guess blind faith is all some people need.

 

[PetrCobra]

[oh, and ZombiU started out as a 360 game]

I'd be interested in more information on that. I know that Zombi U is what Killer Freaks From Outer Space came to be, but that was a Wii U game back in 2011. How was it originated on X360?

 

[antonz]

It really doesn't matter what anyone says because you and others have already decided you are right and know everything so no matter what people say its the same no its not

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If you're actually expecting a Dreamcast---> Playstation/Saturn/ N64 difference with the WiiU and Ps360 then I honestly don't know what to say. You are likely setting yourself up for a disappointment.
I guess blind faith is all some people need.

Exactly, a more apt example would be ps2/GC ---> Xbox.

 

[soulassssns]

I'd be interested in more information on that. I know that Zombi U is what Killer Freaks From Outer Space came to be, but that was a Wii U game back in 2011. How was it originated on X360?

Same here

 

[DragonSworne]

Same here

It was killer rabbids on 360

 

[Mastperf]

It really doesn't matter what anyone says because you and others have already decided you are right and know everything so no matter what people say its the same no its not

Periods, how do they work?
If you're referring to me then no, i haven't made up my mind. I going strictly by what I've seen and what we know so far. The "hidden power" people are the ones who've made up their minds and are going on pure hope. Again, there's nothing what-so-ever known or shown to expect that kind of leap from the WiiU. If/when it shows this kind of capability, then and only then does it make sense to call it the DC of next-gen.

 

[JordanN]

Is it necessary to use DC/PS2/Xbox etc as measures of power? Even if it were true, there are underlying inaccuracies.

A 10x Wii U wouldn't yield the same results as a 10x Dreamcast. Diminishing returns and all that, graphics are getting harder and harder to tell the difference. Same is going to apply to PS4/720.

Just stick to saying 2x the ram, next gen GPGPU etc.

 

[Smurfman256]

I'd be interested in more information on that. I know that Zombi U is what Killer Freaks From Outer Space came to be, but that was a Wii U game back in 2011. How was it originated on X360?

http://www.giantbomb.com/zombiu/61-35619/

ZombiU was originally unveiled as a Wii U exclusive first person shooter named Killer Freaks from Outer Space at E3 2011. Even before that, the game started as a multiplatform project that featured regular, non-alien Rabbids and was called Attack of the Killer Rabbids From Outer Space because the developers at Ubisoft Montpellier had been working on Rabbids games for years and grew tired of them so they wanted to make a game about shooting them in the face.

 

[ohlawd]

Exactly, a more apt example would be ps2/GC ---> Xbox.

Hey man, don't lump the GC with the PS2. The GC deserves

Spoiler

and performs

better than that.

 

[Mastperf]

Is it necessary to use DC/PS2/Xbox etc as measures of power? Even if it were true, there are underlying inaccuracies.

A 10x Wii U wouldn't yield the same results as a 10x Dreamcast. Diminishing returns and all that, graphics are getting harder and harder to tell the difference. Same is going to apply to PS4/720.

Just stick to saying 2x the ram, next gen GPGPU etc.

As bad as it is ( agreed, it's bad), it's still a more fair way to compare than the usual X times more powerful benchmark we usually see. It at least gives a mental idea of the difference as apposed to X times the power. It also allows diminishing returns to be taken into account since you have an actual idea with software as apposed to the "X times the power" number that doesn't account for it.

Hey man, don't lump the GC with the PS2. The GC deserves

Spoiler

and performs

better than that.

+1
I loved that little Cube.

 

[lwilliams3]

Periods, how do they work?
If you're referring to me then no, i haven't made up my mind. I going strictly by what I've seen and what we know so far. The "hidden power" people are the ones who've made up their minds and are going on pure hope. Again, there's nothing what-so-ever known or shown to expect that kind of leap from the WiiU. If/when it shows this kind of capability, then and only then does it make sense to call it the DC of next-gen.

I believe that when most people are saying "Dreamcast/PS2 of the upcoming generation," they just mean in comparison to the DC/PS2 vs GCN/Xbox. They are not really considering the N64/PSX in the equation, as it is generally agreed that the DC was considerably more powerful than the N64.

 

[Angel Whispers]

Errrm... Whoever said that the Wii U has no right to be the 8th Gen Dreamcast is well off point, in my opinion. I would go further and say that if one is to go with 6th Gen Scale, then the Wii U would be further than the Dreamcast and more in line with the PS2, if not even further than that - It's all a load of BS, anyway. The bird and Zelda tech demos are above anything seen on current gen consoles, and they were on early kits which are less powerful than the retail ones. Since then, we know about the RAM, GPGPU, etc. We know that it runs Frostbite 2 smoothly, Cry Engine 3 'beautifully', Havok, and Epic also confirmed that it can have UE4 if developers wish to make games with that engine, while Luminous is scalable - These points should kill the '2005 tech, on par with 360, Current-Gen' cheap shots with fire and holy water once and for all. By the way, it will run an image on the main screen as well as the GamePad, all from the same machine, making it all the more impressive (something which can't be said about Vita and PS3 because both are specialist consoles and no doubt the Vita with the next PS). Then there's the fact that most gamers won't see a great difference. NeoGAF and others might be salivating over imaginary beast machines, but I don't believe that there will be much between the Wii U and the PS360 successors. That was never a bother for the PS2, and even the Dreamcast would've still had games had Sega not decided to become a cross-platform publishing house. Furthermore, this idea that cross-platform publishers are going to take the 'power route' again after they failed the Wii is pure folly. When one considers that indie developers are on board with the Wii U, and that over 120 houses fell this generation, I wouldn't presume that they'll be so quick to 'jump ship'. Also, look at the Vita, then consider how many houses are on board for the launch window alone - Say what you will about the past, but the present says that relations between Nintendo and other publishers are in a healthy place. It's clear that a giant leap in power and graphics isn't in the industry's interests, and the desire for one isn't as strong as extreme Sony and Microsoft fans and PC elitists believe - The fact that Wii U pre-orders are selling out across North America will reinforce that point. Even where PCs are concerned, there's been a significant shift towards laptops, especially cheaper ones. Then there's the rise of mobile gaming and the support for the Ouya console. The vast majority of gamers just don't care for all that power and graphics. So, with all of this in mind, some people need to stop acting as if Nintendo won't get anything in the 8th Generation.

 

[soulassssns]

It was killer rabbids on 360

link? Everything I have found about it only states it as a rumor. No confirmation.

 

[Smurfman256]

Errrm... Whoever said that the Wii U has no right to be the 8th Gen Dreamcast is well off point, in my opinion. I would go further and say that if one is to go with 6th Gen Scale, then the Wii U would be further than the Dreamcast and more in line with the PS2, if not even further than that - It's all a load of BS, anyway. The bird and Zelda tech demos are above anything seen on current gen consoles, and they were on early kits which are less powerful than the retail ones. Since then, we know about the RAM, GPGPU, etc. We know that it runs Frostbite 2 smoothly, Cry Engine 3 'beautifully', Havok, and Epic also confirmed that it can have UE4 if developers wish to make games with that engine, while Luminous is scalable - These points should kill the '2005 tech, on par with 360, Current-Gen' cheap shots with fire and holy water once and for all. By the way, it will run an image on the main screen as well as the GamePad, all from the same machine, making it all the more impressive (something which can't be said about Vita and PS3 because both are specialist consoles and no doubt the Vita with the next PS). Then there's the fact that most gamers won't see a great difference. NeoGAF and others might be salivating over imaginary beast machines, but I don't believe that there will be much between the Wii U and the PS360 successors. That was never a bother for the PS2, and even the Dreamcast would've still had games had Sega not decided to become a cross-platform publishing house. Furthermore, this idea that cross-platform publishers are going to take the 'power route' again after they failed the Wii is pure folly. When one considers that indie developers are on board with the Wii U, and that over 120 houses fell this generation, I wouldn't presume that they'll be so quick to 'jump ship'. Also, look at the Vita, then consider how many houses are on board for the launch window alone - Say what you will about the past, but the present says that relations between Nintendo and other publishers are in a healthy place. It's clear that a giant leap in power and graphics isn't in the industry's interests, and the desire for one isn't as strong as extreme Sony and Microsoft fans and PC elitists believe - The fact that Wii U pre-orders are selling out across North America will reinforce that point. Even where PCs are concerned, there's been a significant shift towards laptops, especially cheaper ones. Then there's the rise of mobile gaming and the support for the Ouya console. The vast majority of gamers just don't care for all that power and graphics. So, with all of this in mind, some people need to stop acting as if Nintendo won't get anything in the 8th Generation.

Again, what did those demos do that the 360 can't?

 

[XtremeXpider]

So if people are expecting the Wii U to be the Dreamcast of generation 8, then does that make Durango the PS2 and PS4 the GameCube (in power, of course. who knows about sales. Anybody who expects such a massive leap in power as from generations 6 to 7 is out of their minds.)?

what if: Durango=8gb / Wii U=2gb?
What if: Durango=APU+discreteGPU?

We don't know the Microsoft plans yet.

I'm expecting a great leap.

 

[Smurfman256]

what if: Durango=8gb / Wii U=2gb?
What if: Durango=APU+discreteGPU?

We don't know the Microsoft plans yet.

I'm expecting a great leap.

That leaked powerpoint that Microsoft stupidly over-reacted over (which inavdertantly confirmed EVERYTHING in it) said that Durango would only be a 6X jump. And the "8GB"? Dev kits only have between 1/2-3/4 the total RAM that dev kits have.

 

[KojiKnight]

There was near flawless Emulation of all top N64 games in 1998. Ultra HLE I think it was called, and you didn't even need a monster computer, most basic graphics cards could do Mario and Goldeneye perfectly in 480p.

Ps1 was the same thing, on PC you could play many games in 1998. And DC wasn't fully 'next gen' it was released in 1998. You could play some PS1 games on DC via emulation early in 2000 if I recall correctly (Gran Turrismo and Metal Gear)

Really, Post 16-bit, only difficult architecture consoles (Ps2, PS3, Saturn etc) or ones not worth it because most of their games are on PC anyway (Xboxes) aren't emulated before the end of their gen. Gamecube was already pretty well emulated, so the Wii was easier than usual, but it's not unprecedented.

UltraHLE was hardly flawless, but the few games it did play, it played fast and usually mostly glitch free. Hell, the same computer I played N64 games full speed on, still couldn't reach full speed on SNES games via snes9x (had a lot of frameskipping on the latter). Remember it clearly as it was a 433mhz PC with a voodoo2 graphics chip.

 

[Mastperf]

Errrm... Whoever said that the Wii U has no right to be the 8th Gen Dreamcast is well off point, in my opinion. I would go further and say that if one is to go with 6th Gen Scale, then the Wii U would be further than the Dreamcast and more in line with the PS2, if not even further than that - It's all a load of BS, anyway. The bird and Zelda tech demos are above anything seen on current gen consoles, and they were on early kits which are less powerful than the retail ones...

Wait, so you're saying that the WiiU is as big a jump over the PS360 as the PS2 was over the PS/Saturn/N64?

 

[XtremeXpider]

That leaked powerpoint that Microsoft stupidly over-reacted over (which inavdertantly confirmed EVERYTHING in it) said that Durango would only be a 6X jump. And the "8GB"? Dev kits only have between 1/2-3/4 the total RAM that dev kits have.

First: the leaked document is from 2010, things are changed.
Second: the leaked document don't look like an official roadmap
Third: dev kits ram = 12gb not 8gb.

And the last rumors talk about something with power, even lherre has said that he think Wii U is like DC and Durango/PS4 like first xbox.

 

[lwilliams3]

what if: Durango=8gb / Wii U=2gb?
What if: Durango=APU+discreteGPU?

We don't know the Microsoft plans yet.

I'm expecting a great leap.

But then the PS4 may be 2-4GB, including RAM for the OS, though its RAM may be faster/efficient compared to what Microsoft may choose. Porting multi-platform games for this generation may be very interesting.

 

[Neo C.]

Why? will Foxconn have a mother and baby unit by then.

If Nintendo wants to release the console in 2017/18, it will probably choose a mid-level GPU in 2015/2016 as working ground. It's going to be cheaper working with a modern GPU than overclocking the current Wii U specs.

 

[flattie]

Errrm... Whoever said that the Wii U has no right to be the 8th Gen Dreamcast is well off point, in my opinion. I would go further and say that if one is to go with 6th Gen Scale, then the Wii U would be further than the Dreamcast and more in line with the PS2, if not even further than that - It's all a load of BS, anyway. The bird and Zelda tech demos are above anything seen on current gen consoles, and they were on early kits which are less powerful than the retail ones. Since then, we know about the RAM, GPGPU, etc. We know that it runs Frostbite 2 smoothly, Cry Engine 3 'beautifully', Havok, and Epic also confirmed that it can have UE4 if developers wish to make games with that engine, while Luminous is scalable - These points should kill the '2005 tech, on par with 360, Current-Gen' cheap shots with fire and holy water once and for all. By the way, it will run an image on the main screen as well as the GamePad, all from the same machine, making it all the more impressive (something which can't be said about Vita and PS3 because both are specialist consoles and no doubt the Vita with the next PS). Then there's the fact that most gamers won't see a great difference. NeoGAF and others might be salivating over imaginary beast machines, but I don't believe that there will be much between the Wii U and the PS360 successors. That was never a bother for the PS2, and even the Dreamcast would've still had games had Sega not decided to become a cross-platform publishing house. Furthermore, this idea that cross-platform publishers are going to take the 'power route' again after they failed the Wii is pure folly. When one considers that indie developers are on board with the Wii U, and that over 120 houses fell this generation, I wouldn't presume that they'll be so quick to 'jump ship'. Also, look at the Vita, then consider how many houses are on board for the launch window alone - Say what you will about the past, but the present says that relations between Nintendo and other publishers are in a healthy place. It's clear that a giant leap in power and graphics isn't in the industry's interests, and the desire for one isn't as strong as extreme Sony and Microsoft fans and PC elitists believe - The fact that Wii U pre-orders are selling out across North America will reinforce that point. Even where PCs are concerned, there's been a significant shift towards laptops, especially cheaper ones. Then there's the rise of mobile gaming and the support for the Ouya console. The vast majority of gamers just don't care for all that power and graphics. So, with all of this in mind, some people need to stop acting as if Nintendo won't get anything in the 8th Generation.

They really aren't, unless you're talking from a personal preference point of view.

And while there is a strong line up of 3rd party games on paper, the titles being released are mostly ports from other systems. This is nothing more than testing the waters. You better hope those games sell or that support will evaporate over night.

Please learn to use paragraphs.

 

[XtremeXpider]

But then the PS4 may be 2-4GB, including RAM for the OS, though its RAM may be faster/efficient compared to what Microsoft may choose. Porting multi-platform games for this generation may be very interesting.

We don't know any details, even with "slow" ram, they can use some kind of faster ram (edram for example, as in Xbox 360).

 

[JordanN]

Again, what did those demos do that the 360 can't?

The lighting in both demo's is still far ahead of the 360.

 

[bigtroyjon]

That leaked powerpoint that Microsoft stupidly over-reacted over (which inavdertantly confirmed EVERYTHING in it) said that Durango would only be a 6X jump. And the "8GB"? Dev kits only have between 1/2-3/4 the total RAM that dev kits have.

I guess the Xbox 361 will be getting announced any day now for release this year if everything in that document was confirmed?

 

[XtremeXpider]

I guess the Xbox 361 will be getting announced any day now for release this year if everything in that document was confirmed?

What is "everything"? He is wrong, the only one thing "confirmed" is SmartGlass.

 

[lwilliams3]

That leaked powerpoint that Microsoft stupidly over-reacted over (which inavdertantly confirmed EVERYTHING in it) said that Durango would only be a 6X jump. And the "8GB"? Dev kits only have between 1/2-3/4 the total RAM that dev kits have.

Apparently, Microsoft made some crazy changes recently due to Epic and EA "encouraging" them to make more powerful hardare, and they at least boosted the RAM amount. Lherre's tidbits also hint to that.

The lighting in both demo's is still far ahead of the 360.

There have been devs and insiders that stated that those effects are not above reach, but Iwata said that those demos can't be easily replicated on current-gen consoles. Perhaps the GPU has some special features to make it easier to program the lighting than for the 360/PS3.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Apparently, Microsoft made some crazy changes recently due to Epic and EA "encouraging" them to make more powerful hardare, and they at least boosted the RAM amount. Lherre's tidbits also hint to that.

His argument is based on the leaked document, a very old document. The doc looks real, but we don't know if the content is valid today.

 

[lednerg]

It's not going to matter how much more powerful the new Xbox and PS4 are. Gamers have different priorities these days. They're playing Minecraft and Angry Birds instead, and frankly, I don't blame them. Year after year, home console games with their increasingly prettier visuals have only managed to get increasingly stale. Console game sales haven't been in a steady decline because the graphics need an upgrade. It's because the games do. Making games more like CGI movies is only going to make them less like games.

 

[XtremeXpider]

It's not going to matter how much more powerful the new Xbox and PS4 are. Gamers have different priorities these days. They're playing Minecraft and Angry Birds instead, and frankly, I don't blame them. Year after year, home console games with their increasingly prettier visuals have only managed to get increasingly stale. Console game sales haven't been in a steady decline because the graphics need an upgrade. It's because the games do. Making games more like CGI movies is only going to make them less like games.

Wrong. What you have described is ONE kind of gamer, there are more kind of gamers, not only "social" gamers or "angry birds" gamers.

 

[AzaK]

Apparently, Microsoft made some crazy changes recently due to Epic and EA "encouraging" them to make more powerful hardare, and they at least boosted the RAM amount. Lherre's tidbits also hint to that.

More than 6GB final? Jesus.

There have been devs and insiders that stated that those effects are not above reach, but Iwata said that those demos can't be easily replicated on current-gen consoles. Perhaps the GPU has some special features to make it easier to program the lighting than for the 360/PS3.

Well the GPU is built around GPGPU which the others aren't so that could be it.

 

[lwilliams3]

His argument is based on the leaked document, a very old document. The doc looks real, but we don't know if the content is valid today.

Yes, I do understand that. Rather or not that 2010 document was completely real, though, there have been at least several things that have changed since then.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

It's not going to matter how much more powerful the new Xbox and PS4 are. Gamers have different priorities these days. They're playing Minecraft and Angry Birds instead, and frankly, I don't blame them. Year after year, home console games with their increasingly prettier visuals have only managed to get increasingly stale. Console game sales haven't been in a steady decline because the graphics need an upgrade. It's because the games do. Making games more like CGI movies is only going to make them less like games.

Well put.

 

[XtremeXpider]

More than 6GB final? Jesus.

Alpha dev kits have 12gb, and 2 Xeon cpus (4 cores each one)

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Wrong. What you have described is ONE kind of gamer, there are more kind of gamers, not only "social" gamers or "angry birds" gamers.

The GAME is the most important thing. These tech tit-for-tats loose sight of that. Watch Dogs had amazing graphics, true. What was more compelling was what you could DO. What's the most played Xbox Arcade game? Minecraft. You can do quite a bit in that one.

This thread is meant for hardware thoughts, but I've shook my head so much in reading some of these recent posts, it's unbelievable. If you want to LOVE all over the Wii U, do so. If you want to HATE all over the Wii U do so. That freedom doesn't mean either side is right though. Chances are it'll be a decent system. Not as crazed as the lovers would like and not as horrific as the haters would like. It'll be decent and for a lot of people, and that'll be just fine.

 

[JordanN]

There have been devs and insiders that stated that those effects are not above reach, but Iwata said that those demos can't be easily replicated on current-gen consoles. Perhaps the GPU has some special features to make it easier to program the lighting than for the 360/PS3.

First I've heard of that. Got any proof?

And where did you get "easily"? I googled his name and that word and that context doesn't show up.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

More than 6GB final? Jesus.

kinect 2 must eat at least a Gig of ram if that is true.

 

[D.Lo]

Dreamcast was a sizable jump in visuals and horsepower day 1. I see nothing that makes people think the WiiU can be the Dreamcast of next-gen.

It was absolutely not. Sonic Adventure and VF3TB looked like higher res Tekken 3 and Banjo Kazooie.

Unless you're talking about the US launch a year later, by which time much, much better looking games were out. Goddamn SC and DOA2 did blow my mind.

My point being an era of launches being a year apart in different territories and less than one year dev cycles is a different time.

Also the Dreamcast was the PS3 of the gen, far too powerful for when it was launched and so assisted in near-bankrupting the company.

 

[lednerg]

Wrong. What you have described is ONE kind of gamer, there are more kind of gamers, not only "social" gamers or "angry birds" gamers.

Minecraft players are about as 'hardcore' as I've ever witnessed. There are people building virtual computers made from the materials in the game. It's truly not for the faint of heart. I knew that mentioning Angry Birds in the same sentence as Minecraft would lead you to lump them all into the same group - which is my point. There are no social or casual or hardcore gamers. There are gamers. That's the only audience that matters, not just the subset who care about power.

 

[KageMaru]

IMHO, gamers are going to be surprised, on both sides. Next gen should be interesting.

The lighting in both demo's is still far ahead of the 360.

Not this again. This is wrong, especially for the Zelda demo. I'm sure you want to point out the GI in the bird demo, but there are very good reasons why that demo is likely using the same cheats seen in current Gen games. To claim there is anything "far" better than current Gen is nonsense.

 

[DR2K]

I'm no Wii U defender, but no console ever comes close to tapping it's potential on launch day.

Wii U isn't going to get that drastic of a change in the coming years. Since it's more or less within this cycle of hardware generation tech wise.

 

[lightchris]

RAM and the GPU. Just by RAM alone, it has more than twice the useable amount of RAM that the PS360 do (not to mention that this is Nintendo we are talking about. Nintendo=FAAAAAAST RAM which could equal maybe 4X performance increase instead of 2X [?]).

We don't know how fast the RAM will be. The size indicates though that it may just be DDR3, probably not even on a 256 bit bus.
Also, bigger RAM size doesn't increase performance.

And multiple developers have said that the GPU is alot better than the current consoles and has the capacity of pumping out much nicer visuals.

We still don't know what they mean by "a lot". Personally I wouldn't call anything below 3-4x a lot. Unfortunately we don't see any multi platform games running at 1080p though (a factor of 2.25 times more raw power would be sufficient).

And then we can't forget about the CPU and what the developers said about it.

The lighting in both demo's is still far ahead of the 360.

Care to be more specific? What exactly is far ahead? Real-time global illumination? Are there dynamic shadows on everything?

Well the GPU is built around GPGPU which the others aren't so that could be it.

GPGPU is not a special feature and has nothing to do with lighting in particular.