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[akimbo009]

This is damn good. Well done Biden. Now Russia has Patriot missiles even closer.

 

[Nikodemos]

I am really getting pissed at Germany at this point. It's not just him, it's their collective body. How dare they really. They made the WHOLE WORLD sacrifice, twice, because of their stupid murderous wars. Now, when their neighbor is being slaughtered they couldn't be arsed to sacrifice even a modicum of comfort - not even plan for it.

It is, unfortunately, by design.

A bunch of spineless idiots is exactly what the Allies wanted out of the German bodypolitic, to eliminate the risk of another "Prussian Glory", so to speak.
The morons of today are the end product of that pipeline.

 

[EviLore]

 

[Ma-Yuan]

Cause he's a shitheel.

I am really getting pissed at Germany at this point. It's not just him, it's their collective body. How dare they really. They made the WHOLE WORLD sacrifice, twice, because of their stupid murderous wars. Now, when their neighbor is being slaughtered they couldn't be arsed to sacrifice even a modicum of comfort - not even plan for it.

They just don't get it. They should be sanctioned.

Who is they? I didn't do shit as German BTW. We are your so called 'they' because of these wars. Your initial plan was to completely demilatirize us and become a farmer nation at best case. But thx to the soviets that plan was abandoned. So now after the fucking reunion where a lot of powers feared we would return to our old ways we become a stupid peace loving country and that's also not OK.

Also I want to make clear Olaf is an idiot I don't like him and I never liked that our military was useless shit since the last two decades but this German bashing here and generalizations about my country fucking annoys me. We fucking pay the bills for the EU. So everyone should shut the fuck up. If we fucking crumble here all of the EU is fucked. With no economy no useful military for anyone.

 

[dotnotbot]

Who is they? I didn't do shit as German BTW. We are your so called 'they' because of these wars. Your initial plan was to completely demilatirize us and become a farmer nation at best case. But thx to the soviets that plan was abandoned. So now after the fucking reunion where a lot of powers feared we would return to our old ways we become a stupid peace loving country and that's also not OK.

Also I want to make clear Olaf is an idiot I don't like him and I never liked that our military was useless shit since the last two decades but this German bashing here and generalizations about my country fucking annoys me. We fucking pay the bills for the EU. So everyone should shut the fuck up. If we fucking crumble here all of the EU is fucked. With no economy no useful military for anyone.

It's ok Hans. Get yourself a beer with bratwurst and calm down.

 

[EviLore]

We fucking pay the bills for the EU. So everyone should shut the fuck up.

Germany pays the bills for Russia’s war, too.

 

[Ma-Yuan]

It's ok Hans. Get yourself a beer with bratwurst and calm down.

Well done at least you didn't call me Kraut.

Germany pays the bills for Russia’s war, too.

Well no. We give them euro and as far as I know they don't pay their soldiers in euro or will buy military equipment in euro and even without our foreign currency this war will go on for a foreseeable future where as the German state might not go on for a foreseeable future with no working economy. I admit it's stupid that we are depending on their resources but it will also be stupid when we will be depending on the resources of Arab countries who finance terror so bad options all over the place. And we not the US who can be energy independent if it needs to be. We are an extremely crowded country that even the stupid renewable energy plans will into issues because of space limitations.

 

[EviLore]

Well no. We give them euro and as far as I know they don't pay their soldiers in euro or will buy military equipment in euro

...? Currency can be exchanged. Russia wanted payments in rubles in order to prop up the ruble's valuation while it was collapsing on the forex market, not because euros are somehow useless for waging war.

 

[BadBurger]

Since Germany is a hot topic - The Daily podcast again, this time they examine Germany's approach to dealing with Russia over the past thirty years and how it backfired (transcript not yet available):

How Germany’s Approach to Russia Backfired (Published 2022)

German leaders believed that more trade would help ensure peace in the region. The war in Ukraine has revealed why that theory was flawed.

www.nytimes.com

Thirty years ago, Germany put forth a theory for how to work with Russia. Major energy deals, leaders argued, would keep Russia from going to war with its neighbors.

Over the past 20 years, Germany has made itself incredibly dependent on Russian gas.

The war in Ukraine has complicated that relationship and has shown how Germany’s approach to Russia has not only failed, but also backfired.

 

[akimbo009]

Well done at least you didn't call me Kraut.

Well no. We give them euro and as far as I know they don't pay their soldiers in euro or will buy military equipment in euro and even without our foreign currency this war will go on for a foreseeable future where as the German state might not go on for a foreseeable future with no working economy. I admit it's stupid that we are depending on their resources but it will also be stupid when we will be depending on the resources of Arab countries who finance terror so bad options all over the place. And we not the US who can be energy independent if it needs to be. We are an extremely crowded country that even the stupid renewable energy plans will into issues because of space limitations.

Sounds like Germany needs to expand its borders... get y'all a little extra space, some wiggle room for your "energy plans". Maybe we can do it on ethno-lingusitic lines and call it Sudetenland. Such a burden, and challenge Germany faces - how could they ever operate in such conditions!

Look - Germany seems A-OK being in this situation. And you can run your leadership under the bus all you want, but fact is you also only put up excuses and roadblocks and "reasons". Y'all are playing defense of indefensible behaviors. I remember a time y'all all got out in 100s of thousand to protest wars. Now you're sorta shrugging - pretty telling at this point where the population's opinion really is.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Ukraine has vast reserves of gas, although admittedly the only ones economically accessible right now are those around... Crimea (it also has stupid amounts of frackable gas but that is expensive to dig up).

I would say it's in the best interests of Germany to help Ukraine win this war and get Crimea back... Ukraine wants to join the EU, and that would make it the only EU country with vast deposits of Energy. Not enough to be independent, but...

 

[speckz]

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[TwinB242]

Ukraine has vast reserves of gas, although admittedly the only ones economically accessible right now are those around... Crimea (it also has stupid amounts of frackable gas but that is expensive to dig up).

I would say it's in the best interests of Germany to help Ukraine win this war and get Crimea back... Ukraine wants to join the EU, and that would make it the only EU country with vast deposits of Energy. Not enough to be independent, but...

I wonder how feasible it would be for Russia to give Ukraine Crimea back and in exchange Russia gets the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Maybe its a fantasy but that could be enough of a 'victory' for both countries and end the war. Russia obviously originally wanted Crimea for the gas reserves, but if Germany and the rest of Europe ween themselves off of Russian gas then they wouldn't really have as much of a reason to hold onto it, especially with the issues they have with maintaining its ever dwindling fresh water supplies.

 

[Mokus]

The reporter is showing us the train station. It's quite obvious that the missile could hit only civilians and nothing military.

 

[Tams]

I wonder how feasible it would be for Russia to give Ukraine Crimea back and in exchange Russia gets the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Maybe its a fantasy but that could be enough of a 'victory' for both countries and end the war. Russia obviously originally wanted Crimea for the gas reserves, but if Germany and the rest of Europe ween themselves off of Russian gas then they wouldn't really have as much of a reason to hold onto it, especially with the issues they have with maintaining its ever dwindling fresh water supplies.

Not a chance.

Ukraine want their country back. Several Ukrainian leaders and officials have stated that they can't just leave their own being under foreign occupation. And that would just leave Russia in a better position to attack again.

Russia want the Donbass to be 'independent', but they don't really feel much of a connection to it. Crimea on the other hand, they absolutely think is unquestionably theirs.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I wonder how feasible it would be for Russia to give Ukraine Crimea back and in exchange Russia gets the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Maybe its a fantasy but that could be enough of a 'victory' for both countries and end the war. Russia obviously originally wanted Crimea for the gas reserves, but if Germany and the rest of Europe ween themselves off of Russian gas then they wouldn't really have as much of a reason to hold onto it, especially with the issues they have with maintaining its ever dwindling fresh water supplies.

Well, Crimea not only gives them control over those oil reserves, but it's a geostrategic point of great significance... you have to realize that little corner called the azov sea is the only place russia can have naval military instalations since the rest of their territory adjacent the black sea is just mountains right up to the waters. Which is to say if someone controls Crimea other than Russia it can shut down Russian's direct access to the Mediterranean.

In truth, given that just occupying Crimea denied Ukraine the gas and protected Russia access to the Mediterranean, starting a war in which he might lose Crimea was a very foolish decision. If I was zelensky, I would just keep enough troops on the east front to stall Russia, then go straight for Crimea. Donbass and Lugensk have very little value other than as being close enough to one of the frackable gas fields to make it dangerous to exploit

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Energy Minister: Russian soldiers who were in Chornobyl have a year to live at most​

Energy Minister: Russian soldiers who were in Chornobyl have a year to live at most

Friday, 8 April 2022, 18:47 – Ekonomichna Pravda

www.pravda.com.ua

What else I can say?

 

[EviLore]

Ursula von der Leyen makes first affirmative comments about Ukraine joining the EU (timecoded):




"We are with you as you dream of Europe. Dear Volodymyr, my message today is very clear: Ukraine belongs to the European family. We've heard your request loud and clear. And today we're here to give you a first positive answer. In this envelope, dear Volodymyr, is an important first step toward EU membership."


(Ukraine doesn't need to "dream of Europe," Ursula. Ukraine is in Europe...)

 

[Liljagare]

Might be a repost, but darn.

Russian commander 'killed himself after learning 90% of his tanks are useless'

Ukraine claimed that some tanks did not even have engines.

metro.co.uk

 

[Rat Rage]

Ursula von der Leyen makes first affirmative comments about Ukraine joining the EU (timecoded):




"We are with you as you dream of Europe. Dear Volodymyr, my message today is very clear: Ukraine belongs to the European family. We've heard your request loud and clear. And today we're here to give you a first positive answer. In this envelope, dear Volodymyr, is an important first step toward EU membership."


(Ukraine doesn't need to "dream of Europe," Ursula. Ukraine is in Europe...)

This is insane. If the EU doesn't start helping Ukraine out with modern, heavy weapons, not some super old, end of life weaponary they've almost forgot having laying around somewhere in the last corners of their weapon storages, then there won't be any Ukraine left to join the European Union.

 

[EviLore]

This is insane. If the EU doesn't start helping Ukraine out with modern, heavy weapons, not some super old, end of life weaponary they've almost forgot having laying around somewhere in last corners of their weapon storages, then there won't be any Ukraine left to join the European Union.

General Wesley Clark mentioned the other day that success on the eastern front will require a substantial number of tanks, artillery, and anti-air defenses, rather than just infantry equipment, since there will be more open combat rather than city siege defenses.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

After this war, I bet the US is mass producing drones. They are game changers imo.

 

[Forsete]

Finland preparing for Russian 'consequences' if it joins NATO: top MoD official​

breakingdefense.com/2022/0...

meanwhile in Russia:

Finland is what Sweden should be.

 

[FunkMiller]

Also I want to make clear Olaf is an idiot I don't like him and I never liked that our military was useless shit since the last two decades but this German bashing here and generalizations about my country fucking annoys me. We fucking pay the bills for the EU. So everyone should shut the fuck up. If we fucking crumble here all of the EU is fucked. With no economy no useful military for anyone.

I think you’ll find a lot of the ire directed at Germany is because for decades now your country has lambasted, criticised, patronised and generally been extremely arrogant towards a great many countries for their foreign and domestic policy. Greece, Italy, the Baltics, The US, The UK…

Now that you’ve been caught in the single worst foreign policy decision since the Second World War, and seem to be refusing to do all you can to mitigate that colossal mistake (which, lest we forget, is contributing to war atrocities), the rest of us aren’t just going to let that lie.

A bit more contrition from Germany, and a more full throated support of Ukraine would do a lot to fix things.

 

[EviLore]

 

[akimbo009]

I think you’ll find a lot of the ire directed at Germany is because for decades now your country has lambasted, criticised, patronised and generally been extremely arrogant towards a great many countries for their foreign and domestic policy. Greece, Italy, the Baltics, The US, The UK…

Now that you’ve been caught in the single worst foreign policy decision since the Second World War, and seem to be refusing to do all you can to mitigate that colossal mistake (which, lest we forget, is contributing to war atrocities), the rest of us aren’t just going to let that lie.

A bit more contrition from Germany, and a more full throated support of Ukraine would do a lot to fix things.

Yeah, as an American, all we get is grief so.... sorry about ya, Germany.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Literally nothing really protective on them.




Only one end for them

 

[EviLore]

UK and Germany decide not to send tanks. UK will send additional anti-air and anti-tank weapons.

 

[iamblades]

Yeah, as an American, all we get is grief so.... sorry about ya, Germany.

To be fair, they must have the bends going from 'Merkel is now the leader of the free world, German diplomacy can do no wrong' to 'the entire German foreign policy and security strategy for the past 30 year has been a giant mistake' in like 6 months.

To the Germans, this is what happens when your country is (or should be) the most powerful nation on the block and you do something immensely boneheaded that negatively impacts your allies, people will talk shit about you. If you want to have a role in world leadership you need to have some thicker skin.

 

[akimbo009]

UK and Germany decide not to send tanks. UK will send additional anti-air and anti-tank weapons.

Wish it was tanks, but those starstreaks are cash money.

 

[EviLore]

Literally nothing really protective on them.




Only one end for them

 

[Tams]

I think you’ll find a lot of the ire directed at Germany is because for decades now your country has lambasted, criticised, patronised and generally been extremely arrogant towards a great many countries for their foreign and domestic policy. Greece, Italy, the Baltics, The US, The UK…

Now that you’ve been caught in the single worst foreign policy decision since the Second World War, and seem to be refusing to do all you can to mitigate that colossal mistake (which, lest we forget, is contributing to war atrocities), the rest of us aren’t just going to let that lie.

A bit more contrition from Germany, and a more full throated support of Ukraine would do a lot to fix things.

This. And the contrition for WW2 doesn't make up for it. That is now well and truly over, in the past, and frankly has no debt left to be paid.

It's what you do now, in the present that matters. Also, coulda, woulda, shoulda, blah, blah, blah. Germany need to fix what they have done recently and stop being an obstacle in the future.

 

[Tams]

UK and Germany decide not to send tanks. UK will send additional anti-air and anti-tank weapons.

Well yeah.

The Ukrainians don't have any experience using either the Challenger 2 nor the Leopard 2. They are quick learners and training can be shortened, but that doesn't mean they would be a good fit.

I don't know about the Leopard 2, but the UK's Challengers also have reactive armour that is listed as 'secret' by the British Army. They aren't going to be sharing those tanks with anyone but the sole export customer: Oman. Oh, and the Challenger doesn't fire NATO rounds (that's one of the upgrades/sidegrades of the current update to Challenger 3).

I really don't understand this want to send:

• equipment that Ukrainians don't currently use and requires extensive training to use well
• is some of our best that we don't want the Russians to get their hands on (yes, the current stock of Western tanks are dated, but that's the case with pretty much everyone)
• is still very important to our own defences (European countries don't have much of a surplus of NATO specification tanks)

NATO members with Soviet era tanks are better suited to getting NATO replacements, largely from the US. They can afford the gaps in capability and are far, far, far less likely to let a Russian even get a sniff of them.

I know people are generally ignorant, but just use a little bit of common-fucking-sense. You don't have to be a military procurement officer to understand this.

 

[akimbo009]

Shit, dude is already dead.

 

[iamblades]

UK and Germany decide not to send tanks. UK will send additional anti-air and anti-tank weapons.

Tanks are challenging logistically, but If I were in charge one of the first things I would have done after it was clear that Ukraine wasn't going to fold in a week would be to start training a division of new tanker recruits on the Abrams in the US, along with a few F-16 squadrons too. Some HIMARS and Patriot batteries as well. Ukraine almost certainly has a spare 10,000 potential recruits that they can't logistically support or tactically utilize as light infantry that can be sent over to train in these roles.

Do it publicly, make it clear that in 6 months or so whatever gains Russia makes are going away anyway, and Crimea and the Black Sea fleet are going to be threatened. Give the defenders confidence that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and make it seem like a sisyphean task for the Russians.

Ukrainians are in the US training on new weapons systems, but I doubt it's as expansive as it should be. Drones, HIMARS and maybe Patriot batteries are probably mostly what they are training on.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

That's like the starting gear you have in a Fallout game, dafuq.

 

[iamblades]

Well yeah.

The Ukrainians don't have any experience using either the Challenger 2 nor the Leopard 2. They are quick learners and training can be shortened, but that doesn't mean they would be a good fit.

I don't know about the Leopard 2, but the UK's Challengers also have reactive armour that is listed as 'secret' by the British Army. They aren't going to be sharing those tanks with anyone but the sole export customer: Oman.

I really don't understand this want to send:

• equipment that Ukrainians don't currently use and requires extensive training to use well
• is some of our best that we don't want the Russians to get their hands on
• is still very important to our own defences

I know people are generally ignorant, but just use a little bit of common-fucking-sense. You don't have to be a military procurement officer to understand this.

The 'they aren't trained on it' thing became moot after the ukrainians mobilized. They have plenty of men to be training on the next generation of weapons while also fighting off the Russians.

The bigger issue is whether they could logistically support a large number of tanks in a large offensive push, but if they are going to win they are going to need to develop that capability one way or another anyway.

Abrams are more realistic than Challenger or Leopard tanks because they exist in a sufficient quantity that the US wouldn't even notice them missing, but less realistic in terms of logistics(Abrams is a thirsty beast).

 

[Tams]

The 'they aren't trained on it' thing became moot after the ukrainians mobilized. They have plenty of men to be training on the next generation of weapons while also fighting off the Russians.

The bigger issue is whether they could logistically support a large number of tanks in a large offensive push, but if they are going to win they are going to need to develop that capability one way or another anyway.

That's just one issue. You addressed none of the rest.

 

[iamblades]

That's just one issue. You addressed none of the rest.

See edit.

As for the sensitive nature of the technology, the Leopard and Abrams are over 40 years old and the challenger is ~30, If the Russians were technologically capable of producing a copy they would have by now.

The US has Abrams coming out of our ears because the politicians refuse to allow production to stop at the tank factory even when the Army says they don't want or need any more tanks, which could be a good problem to have at a time like this if we can figure out the logistical issues.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Damn...being old and sent to die. These people are literally fodder. Of course, they all could be POS people. Still, if they are good people the only thing I could tell them is

 

[Gp1]

 

[FunkMiller]

Im here for the Red Dawn memes.

 

[TransTrender]

JFC
What a nightmare existence

 

[EviLore]

 

[Hoddi]

Damn...being old and sent to die. These people are literally fodder. Of course, they all could be POS people. Still, if they are good people the only thing I could tell them is

It's easy to be cynical. But most of those people have no idea what they're getting into and they're almost as far away from Ukraine as they are from Alaska.

 

[Ma-Yuan]

...? Currency can be exchanged. Russia wanted payments in rubles in order to prop up the ruble's valuation while it was collapsing on the forex market, not because euros are somehow useless for waging war.

They can print as much rubles as they want to pay their soldiers and workers important is that they can't use the euros to buy stuff from outside of their country they need with it and therefore are the sanctions. Embargoes and sanctions should hurt the enemy more then yourself and I strongly believe an energy embargo just fucks the EU more then it would Russia right now. I also never voted for Merkel or that smurf Olaf right now. But my point is over reacting to sticking it to the Russians while not thinking in the long run how to keep the lights on is stupid. And Russia will sell its resources anyway to someone. Their is no way they won't because without them on the market the whole world has a problem so the energy routes will just shift we pay more they will get less but it takes time.

 

[Nikodemos]

700 dead in a single town...

 

[Von Hugh]

700 dead in a single town...

Just Russia doing some genocide in the year 2022. Nothing to see here.

 

[sinnergy]

Good to see CIA and MI6 knew about the whole plan for months / year.. sad to see we didn’t provide the Ukrainians with stuff a year early. And good to read they made it all public on purpose , looks like Biden had a big roll in this.

Also good to read that they couldn’t have predicted Ukraine standing up like this .. it would be weeks they thought!

Good for them! Keep going! Fck Putin