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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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UnNamed

Banned
Why would he do this? Then I realize it was in Russia, and I guess he also drink plutonium tea before doing this.

In #Moscow, former vice-president of "Gazprombank" Vladislav Avaev shot dead his wife and 13-year-old daughter, after which he committed suicide. Previously, Avaev worked in the Office of the President and in the State Duma.

renderTimingPixel.png

twitter.com/nexta_...
He was suicidated.
 

Forsete

Member
Huh, i don't know how they calculated it, but we (Poland) took in 3 miliom refugees and are actively integrating them in our system. Wouldn't that fall under "humanitarian"?
He lists a source in the thread, but I didn't check it.

Poland has really stepped up. So no criticism on you.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community


Seems like a few countries could step up, including my own.


Oh absolutely. My own country is not in that list - which is a source of great shame. Sadly we are currently ruled by a coalition of the center-left and the left. The leftier elements are against military spending and are also university communists so they fucking love Castro, Maduro, Lenin...

We are massive gas huffers but at least we tap the african pipes that france uses so we aren't paying the orcs campaign with our money. Well, our gas money at least, no idea if we buy his oil.
 

tommolb

Member
You’re talking about WW3 there, there’s no way that NATO are getting involved unless the Russians are silly enough to make a mistake or NATO is. Which is a thing that could happen, but I sincerely hope not as that’s probably the end of us all.

Some people on here talk about “NATO getting involved” as if it’s just some sort of happy go lucky thing they haven’t thought of. Hundreds of thousands or millions/billions will die if that happens
You automatically equate NATO involvement to nuclear warfare? That's what Putin wants the West to believe as it means we all sit here sat on our hands doing nothing.

NATO could declare Ukraine a protectorate and their troops and tanks enter Ukraine and Putin would do a calculation. The end result would be Putin backing off. He doesn't want to fight a conventional war he'd loose and isn't suicidal to want to fight a nuclear conflict either.
 

Doczu

Member
He lists a source in the thread, but I didn't check it.

Poland has really stepped up. So no criticism on you.
Nah, i'm not posting for recognition. Inwas just curious. I think it's for external help, so geared towards Ukraine.
Refugee situation is internal, so it isn't listed.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
My dear leader Scholz just gave a statement. He said they presented a "shopping list" with equipment the Weapon industry would be able to provide, and Ukraine could choose what they want from that list. We are providing Ukraine with up to 50 billion Euro to pay for those weapons. After Scholz was done, several journalist asked if Germany would provide tanks and other heavy weapons, but he never gave a clear answer :/ All he said was "we are providing weapons that are strong and have a wide reach".

50 billion?



Seems like a few countries could step up, including my own.


Europe don't give a shit, and those that do are too small to really move to many needles (but bravo!).

I do get a little embittered cause I'd like nice things in the US - like health care or whatever - but off to the rescue with my tax dollars for a world EU clearly doesn't give a shit about. Call it a hate boner, but that graph is so infuriating. Maybe they do prefer Russian domination, cause looking at putting your money where their mouth is it's obvious they want to give money to support Russia not Ukraine.
 

Ionian

Member
50 billion?



Europe don't give a shit, and those that do are too small to really move to many needles (but bravo!).

I do get a little embittered cause I'd like nice things in the US - like health care or whatever - but off to the rescue with my tax dollars for a world EU clearly doesn't give a shit about. Call it a hate boner, but that graph is so infuriating. Maybe they do prefer Russian domination, cause looking at putting your money where their mouth is it's obvious they want to give money to support Russia not Ukraine.

What are you waffling on about. 'Wah wah Europe doesn't care, I want nice things here.' WTF?

Shame on you.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
50 billion?



Europe don't give a shit, and those that do are too small to really move to many needles (but bravo!).

I do get a little embittered cause I'd like nice things in the US - like health care or whatever - but off to the rescue with my tax dollars for a world EU clearly doesn't give a shit about. Call it a hate boner, but that graph is so infuriating. Maybe they do prefer Russian domination, cause looking at putting your money where their mouth is it's obvious they want to give money to support Russia not Ukraine.
With exception to Poland, the graph seems to be proportionate to GDP of the countries.
 

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
You automatically equate NATO involvement to nuclear warfare? That's what Putin wants the West to believe as it means we all sit here sat on our hands doing nothing.

NATO could declare Ukraine a protectorate and their troops and tanks enter Ukraine and Putin would do a calculation. The end result would be Putin backing off. He doesn't want to fight a conventional war he'd loose and isn't suicidal to want to fight a nuclear conflict either.
When NATO troops are actively engaging Russian troops that is WW3 and that’s what you’re talking about.

I would be extremely worried if NATO got involved here, Putin may back off or he may double down. It’s a gamble but all wars are I suppose. I am so impressed with the spirit of the Ukrainians, I thought they’d be overrun in a matter of days/weeks.

The longer this goes on though the more brutal the tactics that will be used, we’ve seen this in Chechnya, Georgia and Syria. Putin truly does not care for civilian casualties to achieve his aim, and his main aim here is the Donbas which he will take in days/weeks without fail. Then I think there will be a prolonged stalemate with no man’s land for a long time. Hopefully by that stage mass revolt has occurred against the Russian state by its own people, but they have a stranglehold at home as well.

I agree Russia is a global problem we cannot ignore now, but a direct conflict with them is surely moving the doomsday clock one second closer to midnight for us all. Maybe he would back off and no nukes would be involved, or maybe someone makes a mistake and we all end up as stardust. I don’t know what the solution is but God knows I’m so sad reading about this AND ALL WAR. WHO chief has been saying recently about the racism surrounding this conflict, and I tend to agree with him in a way. Saudis have been bombing Yemen for years and no one gives a fuck.
 
I am happy for him...?



Episode 11 Dolph Starbeam GIF by The Simpsons


Edit:

From what I read, this is to make those who have Russian investment suffer (especially on the government level in any country). Of course, this will also fuck oligarchs' money.
 
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Relique

Member
With exception to Poland, the graph seems to be proportionate to GDP of the countries.
Just eyeballing it, that doesn't seem to be the case. The UK is sort of proportional. Going down the list though US has around 8 times the GDP of France but like 20 times the aid. US has like 5-6 times the GDP of Germany but around 14 times the aid. This list probably doesn't account for refugees taken though so that may change things a bit.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Just eyeballing it, that doesn't seem to be the case. The UK is sort of proportional. Going down the list though US has around 8 times the GDP of France but like 20 times the aid. US has like 5-6 times the GDP of Germany but around 14 times the aid. This list probably doesn't account for refugees taken though so that may change things a bit.
I was so wrong.
csm_UST_Grafik2_Bilaterale-Hilfen_EN_bcf12a0a1d.png


Last updated 26/3/2022
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.


Germany’s all out of military supplies after sending half as much as Estonia.

Did East Germany build their own AKs? I wonder if, if they did, the infrastructure is still available to tool up and build new ones to send to Ukraine.
 

Relique

Member
On the other hand I though that UK gave way more... Estonia, Poland king shit.
I think if we consider April the UK will go up on that list because that Bucha visit lead to some of the largest UK commitments. In the end I am glad they are helping in any way so not going to really hate on anyone on that list. However, there are quite a few top economies missing though..
 

Patrick S.

Banned
At this point Germany looks like Russias allies.

What?

Germany has been neglecting its army for a very very long time. We have, for example, F4 Phantom fighter jets that are like sixty years old, and most of them are broken all the time. We have, after WW2 and the supposed end of the cold war, been reducing and reducing our military spending because we wanted to distance ourselves from being a war nation. You know that NATO has been constantly complaining that Germany isn't fulfilling the quota of dedicating 2% of our budget towards our military, right? We do NOT have a huge army. So our Government spoke to the weapon manufacturers and asked what they could provide to Ukraine, and that we are paying for it. We will be paying a huge fucking sum of money for this. So GTFO with your bullshit accusation of us being Russian allies! If we were such allies to Russia, I doubt Scholz would have said what he said today; that Russia needs to lose this war. He said more strong words against Russia, but man, "Russia needs to lose" is the furthest you can get from identifying as an ally to Russia.
 

thuGG_pl

Member
What?

Germany has been neglecting its army for a very very long time. We have, for example, F4 Phantom fighter jets that are like sixty years old, and most of them are broken all the time. We have, after WW2 and the supposed end of the cold war, been reducing and reducing our military spending because we wanted to distance ourselves from being a war nation. You know that NATO has been constantly complaining that Germany isn't fulfilling the quota of dedicating 2% of our budget towards our military, right? We do NOT have a huge army. So our Government spoke to the weapon manufacturers and asked what they could provide to Ukraine, and that we are paying for it. We will be paying a huge fucking sum of money for this. So GTFO with your bullshit accusation of us being Russian allies! If we were such allies to Russia, I doubt Scholz would have said what he said today; that Russia needs to lose this war. He said more strong words against Russia, but man, "Russia needs to lose" is the furthest you can get from identifying as an ally to Russia.
Sorry, but the war last almost 2 months now, and what I can see from Germany, it is delaying, delaying and delaying everything. Even those fucking 5000 helmets took them like 3 weeks to send.
So far Germany has been laughable in supporting Ukraine and as a biggest economy in UE they're doing jack shit.
 
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Liljagare

Member
What?

Germany has been neglecting its army for a very very long time. We have, for example, F4 Phantom fighter jets that are like sixty years old, and most of them are broken all the time. We have, after WW2 and the supposed end of the cold war, been reducing and reducing our military spending because we wanted to distance ourselves from being a war nation. You know that NATO has been constantly complaining that Germany isn't fulfilling the quota of dedicating 2% of our budget towards our military, right? We do NOT have a huge army. So our Government spoke to the weapon manufacturers and asked what they could provide to Ukraine, and that we are paying for it. We will be paying a huge fucking sum of money for this. So GTFO with your bullshit accusation of us being Russian allies! If we were such allies to Russia, I doubt Scholz would have said what he said today; that Russia needs to lose this war. He said more strong words against Russia, but man, "Russia needs to lose" is the furthest you can get from identifying as an ally to Russia.

I think most people understand Germany's position too, it is really, damned if you do, damned it you don't, with regards to history. :\

But, becoming overly dependant on Russian LNG and oil, that is something that almost everyone was going "whoopsie" about. And, tons of nations suggested that the Nord pipelines were a bad idea, when you have no backup if its all shut down, in case of wars. Germany decided to stop it's nuclear facilities, coal facilities, and decided it was a good idea to become a dependant on Russia, a former Soviet Union state, pretty much everyone in the energy sector was smacking their heads against the screens when this was going on, but due to the green parties, nobody listened.

Though, you can't say there weren't warnings, alerts, and discussions regarding this, everyone knew this was a horrible idea, but to appease the green parties all over, it all went through anyway. This is true in several EU nations, and imho, the green parties was the greatest victory that Putin has achieved in the EU. Though, those green parties, have been anything but, if you look at the aftermath.
 

Patrick S.

Banned
Sorry, but the war last almost 2 months now, and what I can see from Germany, it is delaying, delaying and delaying everything. Even those fucking 5000 helmets took them like 3 weeks to send.
So far Germany has been laughable in supporting Ukraine and as a biggest economy in UE they're doing jack shit.

I agree that Germany should and could do more. We/our government is far from perfect. Everything here is Tiki-Taka, everything has to be approved, counterapproved, triple signed, quadruple countersigned... it sucks. I want to kick my government in the butt every day, man. But we aren't Russia's allies. At least not anymore. Schröder is gone, and I'm glad Steinmeier got little wakeup call the other day when he was told he wasn't welcome in Ukraine. That got people thinking.
 

Patrick S.

Banned
I think most people understand Germany's position too, it is really, damned if you do, damned it you don't, with regards to history. :\

But, becoming overly dependant on Russian LNG and oil, that is something that almost everyone was going "whoopsie" about. And, tons of nations suggested that the Nord pipelines were a bad idea, when you have no backup if its all shut down, in case of wars. Germany decided to stop it's nuclear facilities, coal facilities, and decided it was a good idea to become a dependant on Russia, a former Soviet Union state, pretty much everyone in the energy sector was smacking their heads against the screens when this was going on, but due to the green parties, nobody listened.

Though, you can't say there weren't warnings, alerts, and discussions regarding this, everyone knew this was a horrible idea, but to appease the green parties all over, it all went through anyway. This is true in several EU nations, and imho, the green parties was the greatest victory that Putin has achieved in the EU. Though, those green parties, have been anything but, if you look at the aftermath.

I guess Germany was too blind and didn't believe that Russia would ever do something like what it's doing now. I never understood how there weren't massive changes in the stance against Russia after the annexation of Crimea :/
 

FunkMiller

Banned
I guess Germany was too blind and didn't believe that Russia would ever do something like what it's doing now. I never understood how there weren't massive changes in the stance against Russia after the annexation of Crimea :/

Cheap gas. Money. Those are the reasons.
 
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Azurro

Banned
What?

Germany has been neglecting its army for a very very long time. We have, for example, F4 Phantom fighter jets that are like sixty years old, and most of them are broken all the time. We have, after WW2 and the supposed end of the cold war, been reducing and reducing our military spending because we wanted to distance ourselves from being a war nation. You know that NATO has been constantly complaining that Germany isn't fulfilling the quota of dedicating 2% of our budget towards our military, right? We do NOT have a huge army. So our Government spoke to the weapon manufacturers and asked what they could provide to Ukraine, and that we are paying for it. We will be paying a huge fucking sum of money for this. So GTFO with your bullshit accusation of us being Russian allies! If we were such allies to Russia, I doubt Scholz would have said what he said today; that Russia needs to lose this war. He said more strong words against Russia, but man, "Russia needs to lose" is the furthest you can get from identifying as an ally to Russia.

You WERE Russian allies, Merkel arrogantly thought she was some wonder Putin whisperer that had tamed Russia through economical ties. All she did was make Germany dependent on Russia while giving them money to rebuild their war machine to restart their invasions, what a legacy.
 
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Patrick S.

Banned
You WERE Russian allies, Merkel thought she was some wonder Putin whisperer that had tamed Russia through economical ties. All she did was make Germany dependent on Russia while giving them money to restart their invasions, what a legacy.

Yeah well that was before the whole WORLD, and not only Germany, were forced to realize that Russia is a rogue nation and a terrorist state, wasn't it?
 

Azurro

Banned
Yeah well that was before the whole WORLD, and not only Germany, were forced to realize that Russia is a rogue nation and a terrorist state, wasn't it?

Not really, Nordstrom 2 happened after Russia had already annexed Crimea and Germany turned a blind eye to it, because cheap gas is cheap and hippies are happy. Even now, the support is meagre and done while dragging your feet, the Czech Republic is doing way more than the mighty Germans. Germany as the supposed leader of the EU is doing not even the bare minimum, it's shameful. Too much attention on Pride parades, progressive issues and drugs, not enough on security and intelligence.

Now that I think about it, it's shameful that the world didn't have a stronger reaction to Crimea, was everyone in denial?
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Not really, Nordstrom 2 happened after Russia had already annexed Crimea and Germany turned a blind eye to it, because cheap gas is cheap and hippies are happy. Even now, the support is meagre and done while dragging your feet, the Czech Republic is doing way more than the mighty Germans. Germany as the supposed leader of the EU is doing not even the bare minimum, it's shameful. Too much attention on Pride parades, progressive issues and drugs, not enough on security and intelligence.

Now that I think about it, it's shameful that the world didn't have a stronger reaction to Crimea, was everyone in denial?
A lot of "deep concern" was thrown around:


Talking about it, like there is no other option.
 

Ionian

Member
Shame on me for what? Waffling? Fuck you, and your German bullshit man. Stop.


You're quite the charmer aren't you?

- You insulted Europe, saying we don't give a shit
- Say we're giving money to Russia over the Ukraine (lol, where did you get that from?)
- Say we'd prefer Russia to win
- Moan about wanting "nice things"

You just basically have a childish rant. So in order to be able to afford your "nice things", put your big-boy pants on and learn firstly, how to read a graph (or even posts here that explain it) and then get some anger counseling. You truly embarrassed yourself here with that post.

Also I'm not German. Maybe do a course in reading and writing as well as your comprehension skills are lacking as is your writing. Your first language is English after all but you wouldn't be able to tell.

My first lesson to you is free, consider yourself schooled. I charge decent rates should you require any more.
 

6502

Member
What?

Germany has been neglecting its army for a very very long time. We have, for example, F4 Phantom fighter jets that are like sixty years old, and most of them are broken all the time. We have, after WW2 and the supposed end of the cold war, been reducing and reducing our military spending because we wanted to distance ourselves from being a war nation. You know that NATO has been constantly complaining that Germany isn't fulfilling the quota of dedicating 2% of our budget towards our military, right? We do NOT have a huge army. So our Government spoke to the weapon manufacturers and asked what they could provide to Ukraine, and that we are paying for it. We will be paying a huge fucking sum of money for this. So GTFO with your bullshit accusation of us being Russian allies! If we were such allies to Russia, I doubt Scholz would have said what he said today; that Russia needs to lose this war. He said more strong words against Russia, but man, "Russia needs to lose" is the furthest you can get from identifying as an ally to Russia.
German use Eurofighters (over 140) and were one of the core partners in that venture. According to a quick google they are even replacing 33 of the original 2003 models.

Overall, yes Germany has been reluctant to build large forces, but they aren't lacking technology. Which is a good thing.
 
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TwinB242

Member
Another US military aid package.

UK sending Brimstone missiles. - seriously, along with Starstreak, this is current stuff, not rusty secondhands near or past replacement *cough* Germany *cough*.

If enough of these can get through and be used, then the Russians are truly fucked.

I wonder if it would be possible to send some reaper/predator drones. Im not sure how much training they require but I feel like even just a few equipped with Hellfire missiles would make a huge difference.

edit: Now that I think about it they would probably be sitting ducks for Russian AA, and probably not that much more useful than the TB2s Ukraine has been using.
 
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Tams

Member
German use Eurofighters (over 140) and were one of the core partners in that venture. According to a quick google they are even replacing 33 of the original 2003 models.

Overall, yes Germany has been reluctant to build large forces, but they aren't lacking technology. Which is a good thing.
'Even replacing Eurofighters'.

They had to. The UK have replaced their first ones as well.

The Germans are still using Tornados though, which while great for their time are now quite dated. The UK retired them years ago. And the German ones don't have a good record of being usable.

There's also the fact that the Germans had to practice with broomsticks at one point.

And guess who used to be their Defence minister...
 
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6502

Member
'Even replacing Eurofighters'.

They had to. The UK have replaced their first ones as well.

The Germans are still using Tornados though, which while great for their time are not quite dated. The UK retired them years ago. And the German ones don't have a good record of being usable.

There's also the fact that the Germans had to practice with broomsticks at one point.

And guess who used to be their Defence minister...
Jesus, you are not joking.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
You're quite the charmer aren't you?

- You insulted Europe, saying we don't give a shit
- Say we're giving money to Russia over the Ukraine (lol, where did you get that from?)
- Say we'd prefer Russia to win
- Moan about wanting "nice things"

You just basically have a childish rant. So in order to be able to afford your "nice things", put your big-boy pants on and learn firstly, how to read a graph (or even posts here that explain it) and then get some anger counseling. You truly embarrassed yourself here with that post.

Also I'm not German. Maybe do a course in reading and writing as well as your comprehension skills are lacking as is your writing. Your first language is English after all but you wouldn't be able to tell.

My first lesson to you is free, consider yourself schooled. I charge decent rates should you require any more.

Europe buys ~$300M in oil from Russia, per day. This war has gone on for 55 days. That's $16.5B in revenue back to Russia versus what appears to be less than $2B in military and humanitarian aide. Of which, is disproportionately coming from smaller eastern European nations which are giving much even when they don't have much to give. So yeah, Europe is choosing to give Russia more money than they are willing to give Ukraine. It's such bullshit, I am shocked to see you even defend it.

And I don't know if Europe wants Russia to win, but their indifference is stark. Even after all this, nations like France and Germany are pretty much playing catch up and clearly aren't leading anything except how many times they can say stupid shit or hold back proper support. Italy seems to have finally caught on - but it's been 55 days of murder and rape, so yay, I suppose?

And yes, Europe constantly insults America and American politics that we are warmongers, spend too much on militarizes, and are too quick to point out when we fall short in those areas. But look, yet again, it's the US who has to do the right thing and step up, and send our money and our gear to make sure a European country doesn't get conquered by Russia. It will only justify even more military spending, and even more paying for guns versus books and healthcare on this side of the pond because Europe's inaction is a threat to actual peace and democracy globally. So yeah, I can be pissed cause this has to the 10th time I've seen it, and everyday it's even more embarrassing when Zelensky is asking for help and yet again it's Europe or Germany or whoever waffling - not me.

But please, share you "free schooling" - it's not worth much, sort of like the EU promises to Ukraine.

Aged like milk it did.
Don't know what you mean.
 
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Majukun

Member
You automatically equate NATO involvement to nuclear warfare? That's what Putin wants the West to believe as it means we all sit here sat on our hands doing nothing.

NATO could declare Ukraine a protectorate and their troops and tanks enter Ukraine and Putin would do a calculation. The end result would be Putin backing off. He doesn't want to fight a conventional war he'd loose and isn't suicidal to want to fight a nuclear conflict either.
can you sell me your crystal ball?
because you are awfuklly casual and sure of what would happen

thank god the leaders of the world don't like betting.
 
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