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S-Town |OT| a new podcast from the producers of Serial and This American Life

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T

Takuhi

Member
I'm seeing lots of people complaining about the lack of resolution regarded the
gold.

Wasn't the part in episode VII where he told Tyler
"think really hard about whether you want to go on the record about the gold before you answer this" and Tyler asks him to stop recording basically a wink-and-a-nod answer? Tyler wouldn't have asked him to stop recording if the answer was that he found nothing, and I doubt Brian would have made that the last word on the gold issue if he didn't intend it as a hint.
 
D

Dalek

Member
Takuhi said:
I'm seeing lots of people complaining about the lack of resolution regarded the
gold.

Wasn't the part in episode VII where he told Tyler
"think really hard about whether you want to go on the record about the gold before you answer this" and Tyler asks him to stop recording basically a wink-and-a-nod answer? Tyler wouldn't have asked him to stop recording if the answer was that he found nothing, and I doubt Brian would have made that the last word on the gold issue if he didn't intend it as a hint.
Click to expand...

I think that basically said it all. Why else include that in the episode?
 
S

Slacker

Member
richardhawk said:
Just finished it.
I don't know why so many people have any interest in the gold at all.
Seriously John is such an interesting person by the end of it I wanted to hear more of his writing than anything else. The letter at the end was beautiful. I wouldn't put it in the same camp as serial, this is a far better radio show.
Click to expand...

Had the same thought here. Whole season spoilers follow:

I completely forgot about the gold by the end of the series. I guess I'm just not pining for a mystery to solve. And the show didn't seem exploitative to me at all, considering we wouldn't have heard any of this had John not called the reporter in the first place. Seems like this is exactly what John wanted, to share his story and his views with the world.
 
A

aceface

Member
After listening to all the episodes this podcast, while great, seems to be a long form study of
the effects of mercury poisoning. His seeming descent into depression and obsessive thoughts seems to mirror exactly the symptoms they described for mercury poisoning. How could such a smart guy do that to himself?
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
aceface said:
After listening to all the episodes this podcast, while great, seems to be a long form study of
the effects of mercury poisoning. His seeming descent into depression and obsessive thoughts seems to mirror exactly the symptoms they described for mercury poisoning. How could such a smart guy do that to himself?
Click to expand...

I keep wondering if that Episode 1 mention of tums and "shitty cherry flavored ones" and his stomach problems were as a result of Mercury poisoning, too.

I mean, lots of people have bad acid reflux, but I think one of the side effect Brian listed were in the ballpark of stomach/intestines.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
aceface said:
After listening to all the episodes this podcast, while great, seems to be a long form study of
the effects of mercury poisoning. His seeming descent into depression and obsessive thoughts seems to mirror exactly the symptoms they described for mercury poisoning. How could such a smart guy do that to himself?
Click to expand...

He's
a little beyond smart (savant-like), which usually comes with some quirks - it's possible that he knew, but didn't care, or was not capable of caring.

I finished listening today and yeah, that was a great podcast and I don't believe it was exploitative whatsoever. John
would have been tickled to listen to this and know that he's now immortalized and has (parts of) his manifesto given a platform. It's like his fire gilding - poisons giving rise to something beautiful.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
Poor GRIMES said:
On episode 4. This is great storytelling but feels really exploitative. I don't know how to feel about it.
Click to expand...

I appreciated the time it took to paint a portrait of John, and he's a fascinating person with whom I can sympathize a lot. But at the end I came away feeling like it didn't tell me much about what I wanted to know and told me too much about what I didn't want to know. And the way it saved the stuff about the
masochistic tattooing/needle play for the very end felt like it was supposed to be a shocking revelation about John and his relationship to Tyler.

Also wasn't a fan of how the show
seemed to abandon a narrative structure toward the end for the sake of filling us in on more of John's personal business.
I guess my problem with it all is that while John is undeniably interesting and tragic, I didn't like how the show was structured or the way the narrator interacted with the story.
 
N

New002

Member
jiji said:
I appreciated the time it took to paint a portrait of John, and he's a fascinating person with whom I can sympathize a lot. But at the end I came away feeling like it didn't tell me much about what I wanted to know and told me too much about what I didn't want to know. And the way it saved the stuff about the
masochistic tattooing/needle play for the very end felt like it was supposed to be a shocking revelation about John and his relationship to Tyler.

Also wasn't a fan of how the show
seemed to abandon a narrative structure toward the end for the sake of filling us in on more of John's personal business.
I guess my problem with it all is that while John is undeniably interesting and tragic, I didn't like how the show was structured or the way the narrator interacted with the story.
Click to expand...

Just finished and man this sums up my thoughts perfectly.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
I'm surprised you didn't see the masochism angle coming. The tattooing comes up super early on. Getting a tattoo isn't excruciating or anything but it definitely isn't comfortable.
 
M

mambadragon

Banned
I just listened all the way through it today after finishing Episode
2
and I thought it was an amazing work and also
have a lot offeelings similar to this Vox article http://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/30/15084224/s-town-review-controversial-podcast-privacy

I don't have time to get my thoughts together so I'll just spitball a list... I might regret a lot of what I type if I think/learn more about it:

- It seems to me John B. would want his full "story" out there, though admittedly I came to this conclusion through Reed's story. If anything, John B. wouldn't mind sharing all his life events (he didn't seem to have many secrets), but I'd be upset that someone framed it as a story and didn't tell it in chronological order
- The mercury poisoning thing is relevant to John B., but ultimately the result was mental illness which should be the focus regardless of the cause.
- This is my admittedly biased view based on my life experiences, but even after all the horrible stories of depression, repression, and other mental illness it looks like addiction ended up being the cause of his death. Everyone kept thinking he'd eventually take his life due to his bigger issues, but addiction was the immediate thing that caused him to drink cyanide. I'm probably not explaining myself well... but he had all these complicated issues that he seemed to be dealing with on a day by day basis, but the addiction caused the decision to take his life in that moment.
- Tyler, Rita, and John B. could easily be portrayed as bad people if they're actions were presented via a synopsis (or bulleted list!). But listen to the person and understand their motivations and you'll get some empathy/understanding... so much so to the point that you can empathize with Tyler's many crimes but still be creeped out by the idea of cutting off a nipple
- When you hear the people talk individually, you don't understand the Trump movement. But when you understand the culture as a whole it makes more sense
- I cannot be the first to have this observation... but Brian Reed's voice reminds me exactly of Jessie Eisenberg. I even Googled Brian Reed's photo and followed him on Twitter after Episode 1, but I still envisioned Jessie Eisenberg speaking to me
- the word "misanthrope" is perfect for John B., but his complaints make me feel hopeful.

Edit: this better states my first bullet

Arkeband said:
John
would have been tickled to listen to this and know that he's now immortalized and has (parts of) his manifesto given a platform. It's like his fire gilding - poisons giving rise to something beautiful.
Click to expand...
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
i probably should have stopped after the four and half i listened to yesterday.
the cliffhanger i left off on was John's florida cousin calling Brian and asking "but seriously what's up with the cops?" hinting they might be corrupt. it looked like it was about to get so interesting.

meh.

jiji said:
But at the end I came away feeling like it didn't tell me much about what I wanted to know and told me too much about what I didn't want to know
Click to expand...

yeah

why weren't the first 7 people on the list called, what did the town clerk know, etc.
 
X

xir

Likely to be eaten by a grue
Lights and Waves said:
Just finished.

Just like Serial, this series starts off great and then fizzles out. The endings of these podcasts are always so unsatisfying.
Click to expand...

Thus is reality. I have half of episode VII to go but loving it. Nothing is ornamental in the production, everything comes back.
Away from the action/adventure stuff
gold
I just want to know if S-Town is ACTUALLY a shit town and if the
police corruption
stuff gets addressed. Would be ok with other things being in limbo
 
T

TrutaS

Member
I thought this was beautiful through and through. There was a definite Starlee Keene feel to it I thought, I was happy she was an advisor (it reminded me of Mystery Show).

The mercury poisoning bit was perhaps for me a weaker point - I got a sense that his unabilility to pursue his sexuality ( because of living with his mom, and in a conservative town, and his own ingrained prejudices ) were the real, or a big part of his depression. Also his behaviour and personality are extremely indicative of bipolar disorder, where people have moments of mania (and brilliance) and others of extreme depression. People have these problems without any mercury poisoning everyday, so I thought the need to find an external explanation to a mental disorder was not worth an entire episode - could definitely have been mentioned though, and no doubt it just made things worse for his mental health.

I loved how this podcast made such a simple, hidden life feel so meaningful and special. It genuinely made me more interested in other people, which is quite a feat I think.
 
D

Dalek

Member
Professor featured in S-Town gives his take on hit podcast – and its central mystery

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#storylink=cpy

Here's a photo of the sundial John made his professor.

stown%20tom%20moore_03.JPG
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
I binged the pod earlier this week. It was interesting to an extent, but it also seemed so popcorn voyeuristic after the twist. I don't know, something just felt a little "wrong" to me about it.
 
I

IAmtheFMan

Member
Etzer said:
How do you guys feel about the motivations of
Tyler and Cousin Rita? While I do think that Tyler was looking out for himself, I think he genuinely cared about John and Mary Grace. Rita, on the other hand, seemed a lot less sincere to me. Especially when she made up some BS to justify wanting to cut off John's nipples to get what she thought were gold piercings.
That's when she lost me.
Click to expand...

Regarding Tyler and Rita:
I think Tyler legitimately cared about the McLemore's. He had a special relationship; that kind of paternal bond with John that he never had with his real father and they both cherished that. Having said that, I do think that after his death, he did try to take advantage though as best he could and at some point it simply became about me vs. Rita/cousins rather than about preserving John's house, what he wanted, etc.

Rita on the other hand I think is more shrewd, but clearly had ulterior motive. Once she gets on the record with Reed, she seems well spoken and trying to explain her point of view does come across as fairly reasonable. However two things get to me: The first is the nipple thing. Her justification for removing them when Reed asked was clearly one she wasn't anticipating and got caught off guard. Her whole 'I just... want to give his mother a memento' was such a BS answer especially how fervently she was saying to just lop off his nipples. The second is actually when she was off the record but Reed mentioned one of the first times he spoke with her, she straight up asked something like 'do you know where the gold is?' That just seemed to abrupt and pointed of a question given the circumstances of their meeting.
 
B

border

Member
In the middle of Episode 3. I really did not like John. I thought him to be insufferable. If this is how small-town liberals act, I almost can't blame rednecks for hating liberals. When this guy isn't complaining about everything, he's being preachy or condescending.

This very much feels like a This American Life episode bloated to massive length. Like, the first two hours probably could have been condensed into twenty minutes.

Is it worth continuing on from here? I will probably finish out Episode 3, at least.
 
J

Jugendstil

Member
border said:
In the middle of Episode 3. I really did not like John. I thought him to be insufferable. If this is how small-town liberals act, I almost can't blame rednecks for hating liberals. When this guy isn't complaining about everything, he's being preachy or condescending.

This very much feels like a This American Life episode bloated to massive length. Like, the first two hours probably could have been condensed into twenty minutes.

Is it worth continuing on from here? I will probably finish out Episode 3, at least.
Click to expand...

Don't bother.
 
B

Blader

Member
TrutaS said:
I thought this was beautiful through and through. There was a definite Starlee Keene feel to it I thought, I was happy she was an advisor (it reminded me of Mystery Show).

The mercury poisoning bit was perhaps for me a weaker point - I got a sense that his unabilility to pursue his sexuality ( because of living with his mom, and in a conservative town, and his own ingrained prejudices ) were the real, or a big part of his depression. Also his behaviour and personality are extremely indicative of bipolar disorder, where people have moments of mania (and brilliance) and others of extreme depression. People have these problems without any mercury poisoning everyday, so I thought the need to find an external explanation to a mental disorder was not worth an entire episode - could definitely have been mentioned though, and no doubt it just made things worse for his mental health.

I loved how this podcast made such a simple, hidden life feel so meaningful and special. It genuinely made me more interested in other people, which is quite a feat I think.
Click to expand...
Mercury poisoning
is by no means a definitive answer for everything. It's just another piece of the puzzle. I thought it was an interesting point to consider. There's something weirdly thematic about the possibility that John's
professional passion was partly responsible for ruining his life.
 
K

Kuroi Gogeta

Member
On the second episode now and really liking it. Coincidentally, I had been listening to the cracked podcast episode about growing up in a small town and how rural America rarely gets the spotlight put on it. I can't help but feel like the media focuses more on people that hate living there than people who do. Like in the second episode of this, it's just amazing hearing some of the folks he speaks to and just how intolerant they come across, like they literally sound like southern stereotypes.
 
K

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
I expected another Serial style show but it ended up nothing like it. Was a pleasant/interesting listen but I don't think it deserves to be a big cultural hit or anything. Serial was amazing and intriguing with so much research and insight into a fascinating event. This just seemed... empty and dull in comparison.

Don't think I'd recommend it to friends where I'd say serial series 1 was a must listen.
 
J

jond76

Banned
Dalek said:
I'll be honest-at the end I didn't know what was going on between those two.

although Rita apparently got Jon's mom set up nicely and she's enjoying her life now and able to travel. It makes me wonder why John didn't properly get her the care she needs if he had all that money.
Click to expand...

Probably for the same reason he constantly complained about shittown but never left.
 
L

Lights and Waves

Member
kaizoku said:
I expected another Serial style show but it ended up nothing like it. Was a pleasant/interesting listen but I don't think it deserves to be a big cultural hit or anything. Serial was amazing and intriguing with so much research and insight into a fascinating event. This just seemed... empty and dull in comparison.

Don't think I'd recommend it to friends where I'd say serial series 1 was a must listen.
Click to expand...

I'd say this is a better successor to Serial than the boring slog that was Serial season 2.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
kaizoku said:
I expected another Serial style show but it ended up nothing like it. Was a pleasant/interesting listen but I don't think it deserves to be a big cultural hit or anything. Serial was amazing and intriguing with so much research and insight into a fascinating event. This just seemed... empty and dull in comparison.

Don't think I'd recommend it to friends where I'd say serial series 1 was a must listen.
Click to expand...

Well, this is markedly different from Serial in that Serial is a podcast based around events that already happened, while this is a podcast that evolved on its own. It takes place over a number of years and there was one interview I read where they weren't even sure it was going to a podcast for a while, it was just a total lark. That events continued to happen around John B and this town is the reason they even stuck with it.

It is definitely more like This American Life than Serial, and people who expected it to be true crime needed to have their expectations tempered before they start. But at the same time, it began as a potential true crime podcast for the host as well.
 
Terrorblot

Terrorblot

Member
Lights and Waves said:
I'd say this is a better successor to Serial than the boring slog that was Serial season 2.
Click to expand...

I liked Season 2 of Serial quite a bit actually! If S2 was the original season the show certainly wouldn't have caught on, but I found the second season to be pretty enthralling. Still, I'd probably still rate season 1 of Serial as best, followed by S-Town, followed by season 2. I look forward to pretty much everything this production team does and can' wait for more.
 
P

PillarEN

Member
Finished this a few days back. I liked it. Took a much different turn after the second episode or so.
I kept thinking maybe there is a murder angle to all of this. Nope. All hearsay. I think it was episode 3 that is very non-John? It was more about the struggles of who is stealing his buses and the older lady trying to solve this and that. That episode didn't do much for me. It's whenever we are investigating the mind of John and people affected by him that the podcast is the most interesting. So yeah episode 3 or 4 when it's mostly about property fights is ho hum. Also, the K3 guy sounds like a douche. "You one o dem libruls. He shouldn't have left his mother" Pft. Puuuuulease. Comes off so friendly and understanding.

Kensation said:
I think Uncle Jimmy is my favorite character.

"YEEEEEAP!!!"
"GAWD DAAAMN!"
Click to expand...

He's like one of those rapper yes men who just shouts shit out in the song with no important verse. That stuff needs to be sampled for actual songs.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
dead souls said:
I'd say S-Town is better than either season of Serial.
Click to expand...

I'd say it edges it out because of a simply wild character it'll be hard to top. I really don't get why people are so let down by these types of endings. Maybe it's because of that larger than life type. You expect a big payoff like some movie. I thought it ended pretty well.
 
B

border

Member
Takuhi said:
I'm seeing lots of people complaining about the lack of resolution regarded the
gold.

Wasn't the part in episode VII where he told Tyler
"think really hard about whether you want to go on the record about the gold before you answer this" and Tyler asks him to stop recording basically a wink-and-a-nod answer? Tyler wouldn't have asked him to stop recording if the answer was that he found nothing, and I doubt Brian would have made that the last word on the gold issue if he didn't intend it as a hint.
Click to expand...

Dalek said:
I think that basically said it all. Why else include that in the episode?
Click to expand...

If Tyler had found
some massive gold treasure, then it doesn't make sense that he's pawning off John's possessions for chump change. In all likelihood Tyler probably took some stuff from the house, and that's what he admitted to. Did he take a chest full of gold ingots? Probably not. More likely that he just made off with some jewelry that he quietly exchanged for money.

Reed probably included that exchange because he wanted to provide some level of closure about the gold, since that angle was teased so much.

It's my pet theory that John probably did not have some kind of massive fortune. He amassed a great savings, and has been slowly burning through that money since the antique clock boom wound down. I think that money was starting to run out, and that partially motivated his suicide.
 
T

Takuhi

Member
border said:
If Tyler had found some massive gold treasure, then it doesn't make sense that he's pawning off John's possessions for chump change. In all likelihood Tyler probably took some stuff from the house, and that's what he admitted to. Did he take a chest full of gold ingots? Probably not. More likely that he just made off with some jewelry that he quietly exchanged for money.
Click to expand...

I dunno... The guy has no other means of employment, but according to articles about S-Town since the podcast's release, he's both managed to finish building that house and hire a private lawyer who's somehow managed to keep out of him jail. I agree that there was probably no massive treasure trove, but I bet he found something of fairly significant value.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
border said:
If Tyler had found
some massive gold treasure, then it doesn't make sense that he's pawning off John's possessions for chump change. In all likelihood Tyler probably took some stuff from the house, and that's what he admitted to. Did he take a chest full of gold ingots? Probably not. More likely that he just made off with some jewelry that he quietly exchanged for money.

Reed probably included that exchange because he wanted to provide some level of closure about the gold, since that angle was teased so much.

It's my pet theory that John probably did not have some kind of massive fortune. He amassed a great savings, and has been slowly burning through that money since the antique clock boom wound down. I think that money was starting to run out, and that partially motivated his suicide.
Click to expand...
If you have a lick of sense, you keep playing that part. Keep looking like your scrounging, fade away, and figure out a way to move what you found of value later. Who knows, tho.
 
J

Jugendstil

Member
cackhyena said:
I'd say it edges it out because of a simply wild character it'll be hard to top. I really don't get why people are so let down by these types of endings. Maybe it's because of that larger than life type. You expect a big payoff like some movie. I thought it ended pretty well.
Click to expand...

I agree, but the lead up to it very heavily pushed the murder/true crime angle, so I sort of get people being disappointed. Personally, I feel like we have a glut of true crime podcasts right now and they're all really boring. I almost didn't listen to it for that reason, I'm glad it was something totally different.

Also I feel like people have short memories, because there were a lot of complaints about the unresolved ending of the first season of Serial when it first came out.
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
I thought I was going to get some work done while listening to this. Just got to the end of episode 2. Fuck all of this.

I remember the host mentioning that someone would die later, but didn't expect THAT, so soon. And the conversation about giving away gold when he died. Fuck. Onto episode 3, and FUCK. This is rough to listen to.
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
What a strange but beautiful tale. You really have no idea where this thing is going in any episode, which I guess why it was so appealing.

Would we have heard this story if he had lived?

It's a shame he didn't get to hear his own story. He would have been a fascinating person to follow for his commentary on a variety of topics.
 
B

beacon 0f light

Member
Just finished up the podcast. Really enjoyed it.

I'm convinced that the
gold is hidden in that river somewhere. Didn't John tell Tyler something along the lines of "walking through this river will be one of the most important moments of your life?" Sounds like some not-so-subtle foreshadowing.
 
B

border

Member
cackhyena said:
If you have a lick of sense, you keep playing that part. Keep looking like your scrounging, fade away, and figure out a way to move what you found of value later. Who knows, tho.
Click to expand...

In what world does Tyler seem to have even a lick of sense? The dude forged a dead man's signature on a car title, full-well knowing that John's family would probably wonder what the hell happened to the two cars he owned.

If Tyler had found a box of gold bars, he probably would have put them on eBay the next day.
 
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