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SbF: Super Best Friends Play Thread: ReBoot

Anung

Un Rama
Of course, that's why LPs aren't meant to replace the game.For the moment, I don't really think there's much I should reconsider. I've always liked the Best Friends because I think they're funny and charming and I still think as much, but in the majority of their recent videos I've sensed a lack of enthusiasm, charisma, and thought, and it just hasn't been much fun.

Lets not forget why we even watch these videos. To be entertained. I find their opinions and reactions entertaining. I don't find watching someone walking around blindly in circles for 20 minutes (and editing who knows how much more out) because they didn't listen to one line of dialogue very entertaining. This problem is amplified tenfold because the videos are so much longer now than they were before.

If it was beyond their control then whatever. People aren't perfect, LP's are transformative. But it wouldn't take much for them to improve. We've seen that they (well, Pat anyway) CAN play in a more methodical manner while being informative and entertaining.

I agree with your last line. I feel it too. It's probably to due with things being done out of obligation (to get X amount of videos out a day) than out of passion.
 

Ilvocare

Member
Holy shit this wasn't posted here. Mike must have simply forgotten (sure I'll take that), so I'll do it instead! Fancast episode 6 happened.

http://sbfancast.libsyn.com/episode-006-spookycast-2-holiday-spooktaculor

Description:

"Note: due to unfortunate events, I was unable to use Steve's audio in the podcast this week...

we had Levi, Ilvocare tho..."

what he's saying is that he sacrificed Steve's audio to give me more time on the clock on the cast

right...?

Also, all this feedback about the best friends' performance would probably be useful
if they read it

Be honest, when was the last time Pat actually dropped by the thread? When was the last time people on this thread were ever mentioned as contributing to feedback in some way for the LPs?

Face it, as an avenue of communication, the total silence and sandbagging has implicitly confirmed that the GAF thread isn't really a source of information and feedback for them anymore. Which is why I rarely, if at all, post here.
 

Neol

Member
Also, all this feedback about the best friends' performance would probably be useful
if they read it

Be honest, when was the last time Pat actually dropped by the thread? When was the last time people on this thread were ever mentioned as contributing to feedback in some way for the LPs?

Face it, as an avenue of communication, the total silence and sandbagging has implicitly confirmed that the GAF thread isn't really a source of information and feedback for them anymore. Which is why I rarely, if at all, post here.

Yea its been a long time. I would like to think maybe cause of the thread change or that he's into FFXIV that he lost care of this thread. I always felt that he came in here when he's bored and not because he was looking for feedback which is perfectly fine. Although I'm certain that our feedback is essentially the same throughout the whole community as a lot of people are discontent with the current stuff.

Still I would like to think they check up on here once in awhile since they frequent GAF.
 

MrHoot

Member
I think the last time Pat came here was when I whined like a huge babby about them not fighting the cathedral hunter in bloodborne without the cheap solution.

So truely, I am the last true hero
 
The real reason Pat hasn't come in here is because he can't find it due to the thread name change.

I think the last time Pat came here was when I whined like a huge babby about them not fighting the cathedral hunter in bloodborne without the cheap solution.

So truely, I am the last true hero

Way to go, nerd.
 
It's very likely at least one of them takes a glance here every now and then. I know Pat has hated asking for feedback here in the past because the instant he showed up everyone started acting like his best friend and ass kissing any critiques they otherwise would have had. The best way to get feedback on how you're doing is to find out where it's being expressed and make sure they don't know you're there.
 

Skrams

Member
I beat Undetale Neutral and Pacifist. Those ending sequences for the LP are going to be fun. I'll need to listen to Pat's rant on the podcast about Undertale to get why he was down on it at the start. I know he complained about Hotland being long, but I didn't really have that problem. It's one of final areas, so it makes sense why it's a bit big. The story told in the area is also probably better told considering how long the area is. It gives it enough time to have characters like Alphys have more impact. I also remember him complaining about random battles which I don't understand. Random battles might be more of an issue near the beginning of the game, but I felt like I had less than 5 random encounters in Hotland and beyond. Even if I had more, fleeing exists. I know Pat has said he doesn't like Earthbound much so it makes sense why he didn't click with Undertale completely. Bummer that he still walked into that game probably spiteful considering everyone yelling at him to play it.

For the LP though, is Matt really going to use the Temy armor for the rest of the game? It seems to make every hit you take only be 1 point of damage as opposed to 3-5. He would of died in various boss fights 10 times over if he hadn't been using it. Probably should of had Liam playing the game overall. The only times Matt seems to be good at games is when it's something he's played before for a while. So what, DKC and Nightmare Creatures? Or something that requires little work like Until Dawn. Right now it's just a Super Mario RPG Lazy Shell LP and I find that to be boring. If Matt somehow dies ever then I'll be surprised. He just might considering he's still having to use health items in some fights.

Also don't really disagree with much here. They try to stay talking, riff, or be funny while doing blind LPs which results in them overcompensating where they forget or don't notice what they're doing while riffing on Woolie eating 1000 year old cheesecake. Blind LPs usually are fine for certain genres or one offs, but a blind MGS5 LP on day one? This game that everyone could tell would be a bad LP format after one day with the game? Yeah, I dunno.

Going double-blind on a game is more often that not a bad idea that hurts a play-through but doing it on a brand new game before people get a chance to play themselves must hurt views?

I'd say people that watch things on day one without playing them beforehand heavily outweigh the people who hold off because they've yet to play. Some of us can be patient and play the game first before watching the LP because we like to play our games first by ourselves or whatever reason. Others just like to watch Best Friend videos without about playing the game. Add in a hyped up game like MGS5 on day one? 220k currently compared to the usual 150k views or so.
 

Xiraiya

Member
My general criticism comes from how they tend to fuel their own dissatisfaction with a game that will start out as valid but then skyrocket to unreasonable degrees all because they're being willfully ignorant and not using or paying attention to the things that the game gives them or tells them.

They have all done this with different games and some best friends are far more prone at doing this than others and it's the one thing to me I find unacceptable and makes them not only seem unfunny but they just end up looking bad in general when there is no reason for that to be so.

It's not even really as simple as "get good at games" it's their general refusal to acknowledge they might be forgetting things and then STILL being like "Wow I'm clearly doing everything that can be done and it's not working, this is fucking garbage"

MGSV is the most obvious example I can give here.
There are plenty of valid complaints to be had with that game we know that.
However Pat and Liam bitching and moaning about a Side-Op taking so long and being boring because somehow even with all his Ground Zeroes experience (Did you guys know Liam played alot of GZ?) and all the time he has put into MGSV doing side content.
He somehow still does not seem to understand how most basic things work, they insist on using Quiet when she doesn't benefit the way he plays because they want to make the being ashamed of actions joke for the 500th time, rather than using DD who they know finds enemies and prisoners immediately (Like that kid they couldn't find and then got upset at the game about the fact they couldn't find him). Hopefully their logic for not using DD wouldn't be something like him making things too easy, given that Liam plays with and abuses the shit out of Reflex mode to get through every situation, which I don't even take issue with, again it helps them get through the game and see more content easier, they're not here to be pro players, but still, common sense.

It's like come on guys, and this would be the point someone like Matt would be like "Oh well people play games differently, shocker."
They do, but that's an excuse. The way a person prefers to play a game is generally the way that allows them to get through it the most effectively and enjoyably, that's why they prefer it, this is not that situation.

And that's pretty much my only complaint with them, they can look up shit and Pat can play ahead on blind LPs, I really don't care, none of that ever remotely phases me or hurts the LP in my opinion as that will generally help them get through stuff easier/faster, go for whatever ending in a game you want or express whatever criticisms, just you know, be sure when you're expressing them, you're not complaining about a thing the game literally has a solution for that you ignored.
 
Halway into the last LiS episode on Vessel
and I legit just want to stop watching. The rate at which they're rushing through LITERALLY every scene is absolutely ruining the game. Matt hating on everything that isn't Hawt Dog Man is goddamn fucking annoying as well. Do you only like things that have "LOL EPIC MEMES?"
 
I don't think I've ever been so annoyed at the end of a Let's Play, even Walking Dead S2.

PLEASE stop letting Matt do LP's. He ruins fucking EVERY game he's been in since I can't even remember with his negativity when the game doesn't go the way he wants.
 

Laputa_94

Member
I don't think I've ever been so annoyed at the end of a Let's Play, even Walking Dead S2.

PLEASE stop letting Matt do LP's. He ruins fucking EVERY game he's been in since I can't even remember with his negativity when the game doesn't go the way he wants.

Reminds me of when I heard his complaints of MGS V on the podcast, he's just super negative guy sometimes.
 

Xiraiya

Member
But the dumb one-off X-Files ARE the best part of the X-Files?
...or was that the point >_>
Actually I only started X Files recently with my woman, we're on like Season 3 I believe, most of the one offs have been pretty forgettable/nothing episodes, The Vampire one pat mentioned was a little different to what he was saying but was an obscenely dumb episode.
So far the main plot has been the most interesting part of the series by far.

We also started Walking Dead around the same time after avoiding it forever, much better than I expected it to be.
People tend to go too nuts for that series and I knew it was different to the comic/TT games, but you know what now mid way into season 4 and it's been pretty goddamn hard to stop watching.

Reminds me of when I heard his complaints of MGS V on the podcast, he's just super negative guy sometimes.
"There's no story and they tell me nothing. I know the story and everything I need to know is in the tapes and all. but no fuck you tho."

I don't mind the tapes, they're effective about as often as they're not, I do miss the codec and Ideally I'd want both methods, more cut-scenes instead of plot dump tapes, but have the Mission Briefing and Hamburger stories as tapes.
Honestly I would have done it where the story tapes are just recorded audio from a cutscene you've seen, so you can listen to them later to refresh yourself on details.
 
All of them have seemed to lost the enthusiasm and are now making videos as part of the job. I say pat and liam are the most enthusiastic and when they lose steam you can see it happening rather than a instant hate standpoint which matt and woolie sometimes easily gain.
 

Moonlight

Banned
Reminds me of when I heard his complaints of MGS V on the podcast, he's just super negative guy sometimes.
Like almost every person on the team at times. Even Liam goes way in on games at times. And you're way over-exaggerating how much he 'complained' about MGS5, too. He actually seemed really apologetic over his opinion of the game (which he shouldn't have been) and clearly didn't want to spoil the party over the game for the most part. He said his part and didn't corner anyone over their opinions. His complaints were easy to understand and hardly wrong, especially since he laid out what he valued in an MGS game and what he felt the game lacked. Which it does, in terms of story and overall tone and humour. You can disagree but he was hardly relentlessly shitting on it.

The dude has his preferences, and there's clearly tons of games he legitimately has tons of fun with.
 

Laputa_94

Member
Like almost every person on the team at times. Even Liam goes way in on games at times. And you're way over-exaggerating how much he 'complained' about MGS5, too. He actually seemed really apologetic over his opinion of the game (which he shouldn't have been) and clearly didn't want to spoil the party over the game for the most part. He said his part and didn't corner anyone over their opinions. His complaints were easy to understand and hardly wrong, especially since he laid out what he valued in an MGS game and what he felt the game lacked. Which it does, in terms of story and overall tone and humour. You can disagree but he was hardly relentlessly shitting on it.

The dude has his preferences, and there's clearly tons of games he legitimately has tons of fun with.

True, I suppose I dislike it whenever people complain about the way the story is structured in MGS V since I assumed that it would be that way from the start having played peace walker and GZ along with it being a open world game. Though being a MGS game as long as he has I can see those complaints being stronger.
 
I agree with about 50% of complaints listed in here.
True, I suppose I dislike it whenever people complain about the way the story is structured in MGS V since I assumed that it would be that way from the start having played peace walker and GZ along with it being a open world game. Though being a MGS game as long as he has I can see those complaints being stronger.
Something I notice with a lot of people, not even just the SBF, is that a lot of them either outright didn't play or don't remember Peace Walker.
 

Rockk

Member
They see tapes labelled "Skull Face's Objective" in the latest MGS video.

"Let's just listen to the yellow ones"

It's funny how people cite this year as the "golden age" when this year has been quite poor for the Zaibatsu. It's also doesn't help that theme months have gotten quite terrible imo. Playing a game in a language you can't understand is funny for about 30 seconds.
 
They see tapes labelled "Skull Face's Objective" in the latest MGS video.

"Let's just listen to the yellow ones"

It's funny how people cite this year as the "golden age" when this year has been quite poor for the Zaibatsu. It's also doesn't help that theme months have gotten quite terrible imo. Playing a game in a language you can't understand is funny for about 30 seconds.
People still think this is the golden age? The Golden Age was awhile ago. Golden Age was Silent Hill 2 and stuff.
 
I honstly don't even care for the "horror" LP's they do most of the time. I didn't watch Silent Hill 2 and didn't watch most of the Shitstorm. SOMA is pretty good because the game itself is good, but recent episodes of that have even been frustrating to watch due to inability to pay attention.
 

Rockk

Member
People still think this is the golden age? The Golden Age was awhile ago. Golden Age was Silent Hill 2 and stuff.

Golden age was a name for 2015. 2014 was the year of face, 2013 the PG era, 2012 the attitude era.

still another 2 months of the so called "golden age"
 
Golden age was a name for 2015. 2014 was the year of face, 2013 the PG era, 2012 the attitude era.

still another 2 months of the so called "golden age"

I'm pretty sure as soon as the Reboot playthrough started, we started transitioning into the age of Woolie.
 

Moonlight

Banned
True, I suppose I dislike it whenever people complain about the way the story is structured in MGS V since I assumed that it would be that way from the start having played peace walker and GZ along with it being a open world game. Though being a MGS game as long as he has I can see those complaints being stronger.
But even Peace Walker had that critical component of humour and light-heartedness to it that MGSV largely lacks and Matt clearly values so much. "It's your birthday" cutscenes don't really measure up to Big Boss trying to convince people Santa is real and NORAD tracks him.

It also doesn't help that no one who watched the trailers for the game got an impression the game was nearly as indirectly told as it was in the main game. In a lot of instances, we didn't even get the story the trailers implied.

I just don't understand dog-piling on Matt when he wasn't even particularly aggressive about his opinion. He's not cut out for certain LP formats, and his brand of humour isn't for everyone (occasionally not even for me), but are we really going to shit on him for being negative for voicing an opinion a lot of people happen to share in a fairly reasonable way? Are we going to reduce him to a sarcastic, reductive one-liner that paints him as hypocritical and dumb? His problem was not exactly impossible to figure out.

I have problems with their content pipeline a lot of the time. I disagree with them a lot of the time. I thought DRAE was treated terribly by them, and MGSV personally feels like a waste of time for me for the format the game is in. Segments where all they do is do nothing but listen to audio logs illustrate this point. And yeah, I wish maybe Liam weren't in more than half the active LPs (if only because I think Woolie should be in more). The last month has been rough. But I dislike seeing the guys misrepresented, like Matt being overly negative? Dude couldn't be happier to be engaged in Undertale. He spends way more time talking about things he likes on the podcast as opposed to anything else, and when he's not interested he'll tend to do the best thing for the discussion and just stay out of it. Soma has had both Pat and Matt really engaged with the material.
 

Edzi

Member
Glad to hear that a lot of the negatives I mentioned are being felt and noticed by so many others here. I hope the guys take notice and maybe address it at some point, as I really think they can do way better. The last year has probably just been really hectic for them, since they've been growing the channel quite a bit and Matt has been working on his wedding for the last few months.

Reminds me of when I heard his complaints of MGS V on the podcast, he's just super negative guy sometimes.

I think he's pretty on point with the MGSV criticisms. That game is a massive disappointment for certain kinds of MGS fans, and I think both Matt and Pat are those kinds of MGS fans. He was also pretty reasonable in how he phrased things, and not aggressive or hyperbolic, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Something I notice with a lot of people, not even just the SBF, is that a lot of them either outright didn't play or don't remember Peace Walker.

It's not that we don't remember PW, it's that a lot of us assumed (fairly) that the structure of that game was due to the fact it was a portable game. The fact that it was actually MGS as a series moving toward that direction wasn't cemented until MGSV, and that was a huge bummer for a lot of fans. Woolie actually talked about this a few podcasts ago.

Not to mention the story of PW being utter garbage, especially for big fans of MGS3. People were kinda hoping MGSV would set things right, but it ended up just being PW2 in terms of both gameplay and story which isn't really what a lot of fans wanted. (Though MGSV's story, while also being terrible and retroactively cheapening the series as a whole like PW did, barely even exists)

Something I'm noticing about a lot of the staunch MGSV defenders is that they can't seem to realize why so many people who loved MGS are upset that the games have moved so far away from their established style. What made MGS feel like MGS for 4 or 5 games has been changed dramatically from PW forward, and this understandably rubs people the wrong way. MGSV feels like an MGS game made for people who never liked classic MGS, and it abandons the perfect blend of quirky story and gameplay that the series was loved for.
 
I played enjoyed mgs peace walker and I agree with the complaints about mgs v. In fact I would say peace walker had a better campaign than mgs v and that shouldn't be possible. Mgs v story wasn't up to par, the missions became repetitive and there was no real epic finale. Peace walker had a pretty climatic finale, repetitive boss were present but had a far diverse mission variety and had a more cohesive story.
 

Gestahl

Member
They see tapes labelled "Skull Face's Objective" in the latest MGS video.

"Let's just listen to the yellow ones"

It's funny how people cite this year as the "golden age" when this year has been quite poor for the Zaibatsu. It's also doesn't help that theme months have gotten quite terrible imo. Playing a game in a language you can't understand is funny for about 30 seconds.

It's weird going back to their old lps like Chrono Trigger and seeing just how much more natural and laid back their conversations and discussions were. Like Matt isn't screaming every second trying to jam some idiotic meme into dead air and is letting the game breathe, it's unsettling
 
It's weird going back to their old lps like Chrono Trigger and seeing just how much more natural and laid back their conversations and discussions were. Like Matt isn't screaming every second trying to jam some idiotic meme into dead air and is letting the game breathe, it's unsettling
I wonder if some of that is the fact that he wasn't worried about getting married when he recorded that, as opposed to most of the LP episodes recorded in the last few months.
 

daevious

Member
People still think this is the golden age? The Golden Age was awhile ago. Golden Age was Silent Hill 2 and stuff.

The irony is that apart from Silent Hill 2, every other LP going on at the time was 'ehhh' as hell, so I've always been skeptical of anything surrounding that stupid "Golden Age" fan meme.

I'll confess that I haven't seen the Parasite Eve LP through to the end, but even then it certainly wasn't one of their best series either.
 

MrHoot

Member
I have my complaints too (already had that discussion a few pages ago about the inherent problems behind a blind LP and playing super popular stuff). Although I find it maybe harsh on Matt. Sure he still doesn't have the greatest attention span and spouts memes. But he was WAY grumpier for me during the mailbags. He seemed downright depressed during that time and was a constant downer.

More recently, i'd wager the stress of wedding which is always enormous to be the main reason if he seems grump. And all things considering, he could've been way worse. I've seen friends who don't have to do his kind of job during their wedding planning not keeping it together at all.

His recent grumps tho I happen to agree with somewhat. The MGS5 too I was also left really disappointed and I think he was really right. He also had words about the quality of the podcasts and that he wanted to rethink some things, and we can all agree we have the same opinion on that.

I'm pretty sure they read most of the stuff, even here. They might not reply just to not get involved. But just like gamedevs read probably every main forums about their game, i'm sure one of the best friends occasionally drops by here. Hell Pat mentions GAF enough here and there so I'm sure he still has eyes on the place.

It sure is a tough time tho. And I hope the best for them because after all I still enjoy watching them (and I have been enjoying the latest batch of LiS/Undertale/SOMA somewhat...plust the most recent thing with Matt and Woolie on Vessel is fucking great). They do need to maybe take a step back on recent releases tho or keep it for little sizzles like their "new super best friends play" as it works way better with the editing.
 

aly

Member
I'm surprised about people having problems with Matt's criticism about MGS5. I thought he was completely reasonable ( and right) on that. Like even if your cool with the tapes/ lack of cutscenes, I don't see how you can disagree that it's poorly paced or might not have all the elements that certain fans look for in a MGS game.
 

Anung

Un Rama
I'm surprised about people having problems with Matt's criticism about MGS5. I thought he was completely reasonable ( and right) on that. Like even if your cool with the tapes/ lack of cutscenes, I don't see how you can disagree that it's poorly paced or might not have all the elements that certain fans look for in a MGS game.

Yep. I mean if you wanted there are plenty of non-MGS related criticisms you could level at MGSV if you wanted to actually be harsh. Matt seemed entirely reasonable in what he said. As a long time MGS fan I agree with him.
 

Xux

Member
This video they announced for Sunday on the podcast is pretty darn entertaining, not even gonna lie.
 

Numb

Member
Gonna take this as a sign to start playing this thing finally.
Now they are just starting with talking about Ultimax and BB on podcasts just to show off.

They should just edit the FNF intro to show a clip of them throwing Ultimax in the trash.
Where it belongs.
 

Numb

Member
They should just edit the FNF intro to show a clip of them throwing Ultimax in the trash.
Where it belongs.

CRXJtaJ.gif
 
Will Liam ever learn shooting people anywhere with a tranq sniper will put them to sleep in under 5 seconds?
Will Liam ever learn you can move around while still listening to tapes?
Will Liam ever sell his precious metals and stop worrying about gmp?
Will Liam ever learn the CQC Slam only knocks people out for 30 seconds and is the worst way to stun someone?

These are the questions that haunt me.
 

Skrams

Member
Someone please get these guys to stop pronouncing Japanese things like a grandmother who doesn't know what an Annie May is. Oh Ri Mo Oh Rye Mo. At least someone teach Pat since he can't even seem to pronounce names after hearing them constantly as we've already heard after Oremonogatari talk.

It's weird going back to their old lps like Chrono Trigger and seeing just how much more natural and laid back their conversations and discussions were. Like Matt isn't screaming every second trying to jam some idiotic meme into dead air and is letting the game breathe, it's unsettling

Do you mean from the beginning or knee deep into it? I think Matt was way more laid back in those days in general. It's why I like rewatching Downpour, Shitstorm 1, and Eternal Darkness a lot. It's got a lot of calm talking compared to nowadays.
Will Liam ever learn shooting people anywhere with a tranq sniper will put them to sleep in under 5 seconds?
Will Liam ever learn you can move around while still listening to tapes?
Will Liam ever sell his precious metals and stop worrying about gmp?
Will Liam ever learn the CQC Slam only knocks people out for 30 seconds and is the worst way to stun someone?

These are the questions that haunt me.
I'm not watching the LP, but how is this a thing. Especially how has he not noticed every CQC Slammed person is only out for 5 seconds.
 
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