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Sega "intrigued" by Revolution backwards compatibility
- Thread starter Xrenity
- Start date
Katana_Strikes
Member
I'd be certainly interested in Saturn stuff. Couldn't care less about older stuff. I can get that elsewhere for free 
ghostlyjoe
Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
I'm objective, as well. That's not the issue here. When you're talking about backwards compatability and the history and pedigree of classic games, Nintendo has a clear advantage because of its amazing first-party lineage. Geometry Wars is supposed to be great fun (I haven't played it myself), but it doesn't change the past, and it certainly doesn't tap into the "nostalgia" market, which is what this thread is mostly about.
Don't be so defensive. I have nothing against XBox 360 (other than the marketing newspeak MS is always spewing), but without Nintendo on board, you can't put XBLA Arcade in the same category as this virtual console.
Question though, wouldn't putting you catalogue on the virtual console (if you are say Sega or Namco) limit your ability to sell copilation retro packs? Would they make more overall selling each game at a few dollars a peice... but that depends on the popularity of the virtual console.
WOuld Nintendo get 'royalties' from the other company for every one of the other companies games downloaded on the console, even if it were say 50 cents?
EDIT: Sonic Mega Collection sold millions, on the other hand, most companies have really done the whole "release all our notable old games" for this generation, and with BC I find it unlikely that they could make much money re-selling the games again for next gen, so the virtual console would be another way to get free money.
WOuld Nintendo get 'royalties' from the other company for every one of the other companies games downloaded on the console, even if it were say 50 cents?
EDIT: Sonic Mega Collection sold millions, on the other hand, most companies have really done the whole "release all our notable old games" for this generation, and with BC I find it unlikely that they could make much money re-selling the games again for next gen, so the virtual console would be another way to get free money.
Beer Monkey
Member
ghostlyjoe said:
Huh?
Comparing vaporware to realware is never a good idea to begin with. Yes, I imagine the idealized virtual console that many of us want to imagine is vastly superior to everything known to man. Let's see what really happens. I'm eager to find out what content they really deliver (both titles, and also cool features like online multiplayer and achievements), what third parties really come through, and what it all costs.
Buffy4ever
Banned
LegendofJoe said:
Unforunately, thier has never been a proper Satuen emulator. Even Sega themselves Use the PC code for Saturn games instead of emulating the saturn (Panzer Dragoon, and Sonic R for example). Plus, the saturn games were on CD, and I don't think the Flash rom would be abel to hold all that data. I really think the best WE are going to get is Genisis/Mega Drive games. All these people hoping for saturn games or arcade games will be dissappointed.
ghostlyjoe
Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
You're still being defenseive, and you're reading too far into what I'm saying. We don't know things like pricing and the actual, game-for-game content. But don't pretend like "anything is possible." We know enough to make a pretty good guesstimate on those things. Calling it "vaporware" is just ridiculous.
I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that the Revolution WILL come out, and it WILL have first- and third-party games available for download.
And I'm not saying that the virtual console will be "vastly superior to everything," and maybe XBLA is the second coming, which you seem to think. But, as far as I'm concerned, retro gaming without Nintendo is like Thanksgiving dinner without the turkey.
SuperPac
Member
If Nintendo's virtual console system has national/worldwide scoreboards for the old games, then I'm very interested. While XBLA games are great, what's really keeping me playing are the achievements and scoreboards, especially friends-list scoreboards. Here's hoping Nintendo comes up with something similar.
ghostlyjoe
Member
SuperPac said:
That is a nifty feature.
Beer Monkey
Member
ghostlyjoe said:
Dude, you are the one being defensive. To you there is only one correct position to take, and that is 'OMG VIRTUAL CONSOLE IS SUPERIOR TO XBLA, GAMETAP, AND ANY POTENTIAL FUTURE DOWNLOAD SERVICE BECAUSE IT HAS MARIO!'. Give me a break, and spare us the nonsense about your objectivity.
ghostlyjoe said:
I just don't get it. Sega and Capcom are already commited to XBLA development, yet you people deem that as insignificant. Yet this news that Sega may release old games on revolution and you act like it just won Nintendo the console war.
You say that it just isn't retro without Nintendo? Why?
You're telling me all of those companies (many with huge back libraries) can't match the enjoyment of Nintendo's 10 or so major first party series?
If you said you can't have retro gaming without games from Nintendo's platforms, I'd understand. But that isn't an issue here.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Can we get a list of third party titles released during NES/Master System and Snes/Genesis era?
Oh, and make the list with A grade games only.
Oh, and make the list with A grade games only.
The Experiment said:
The Wavebird controller is the "shell controller" for the Revolution. It can be used to play the older games but its also going to be used with the games on the Revolution that don't take advantage of the "remote controller". So it will give develops an option rather than forcing them to use the remote. That way everyone is happy.
How about, instead of arguing over the imaginary titles Sega and other companies are going to release/rerelease on either Rev's service or XBLA and acting like whiny crybabies, let's wait until we actually hear what each company is putting on the respective systems.
Two facts:
1. Sega being intrigued at the idea doesn't confirm anything, and while it would be nice, any hopes of a Sega back catalogue are pure speculation.
2. Sega is committed to XBLA development, but I have yet to hear any major titles, old or otherwise, even hinted at release. Thus, any hopes of a Sega back catalogue on XBLA are also pure speculation.
3. You're arguing over what may or may not happen. You have no idea how stupid you look doing so.
Two facts:
1. Sega being intrigued at the idea doesn't confirm anything, and while it would be nice, any hopes of a Sega back catalogue are pure speculation.
2. Sega is committed to XBLA development, but I have yet to hear any major titles, old or otherwise, even hinted at release. Thus, any hopes of a Sega back catalogue on XBLA are also pure speculation.
3. You're arguing over what may or may not happen. You have no idea how stupid you look doing so.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I can't believe people here are trying to freaking compare Revolution's Virtual Console to that of Gametap and Xbox Live Arcade. I'm sorry, but that's fanboyism to the nth degree. The Revolution will have handsdown the greatest backlog library of games; nothing compares, period. And if you think it's all about Mario, you're lost. GoldenEye 64, SFII, FF1-5, Chrono Trigger and many other classics will be available on day one.
I understand you don't like Nintendo, but don't deny reality like this. Try again.
I understand you don't like Nintendo, but don't deny reality like this. Try again.
PhoenixDark said:
SFII - Capcom. Commited to XBLA - No word on Revolution
Chrono Trigger Square. - Not commited to either
FF1-5 - Square. - Not commited to either
GoldenEye64 - Not sure who owns the rights
Why are you assuming that every game for SNES is going to be on the revolution on day one? Nintendo has only commited to first party games.
There is no reason to suggest those gamers are any more likely to appear on the virtual console than on XBLA (or vice versa).
SuperPac
Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'd be willing to bet that none of the titles you just mentioned will be available on day one for Revolution's virtual console. Well, ok, *maybe* Goldeneye 64. But the rest, no.
It certainly has the *potential* to be the best, but to say that it will be the best without knowing how many/which games will be available from what Nintendo systems, it's hard to judge anything about the rev's virtual console plan. Another question is pricing. Would it be subscription fee a la cell phone games? One-time charge? Time-limited fee? Many questions still remain for anyone to really say whether Nintendo will pwn or be pwned by other companies' plans.
Can you provide a confirmation that Goldeneye, probably the single trickiest game to get onto the virtual console due to the many, MANY fingers in the Bond Rights pie, will in fact be available on Day 1? No, a quote from Reggie stating how cool it would be to play GE or whatever doesn't count.PhoenixDark said:
I'm also curious why the Rev could get SF2 (presumably the SNES port) and XBLA can't. Hell, I can play SF2 on my xbox, legally, right now, and it's the arcade version. Or why Square couldn't put FF/CT on XBLA.
And MS owns Rare, who made the game. Rare took a lot of Rare-made IP with them to MS, so it's possible that MS/Rare could successfully block GE on Rev. Or at least make the legal fees worth more than releasing the game.
No6 said:
I can't say for sure, but back around the "Rare Bought By MS" event, their was a lot of discussion about who owned what. I think it was determined that Goldeneye could be re-released by Nintendo, given EA's assistance/permission with the license. Nintendo owns the code.
Beer Monkey
Member
Goldeneye is probably the least likely N64 game to show up on Virtual Console any time soon.
Regarding all third-party games that were on a Nintendo platform: these can easily be ported to XBLA. NES stuff can be emulated, and SNES and N64 games can be rewritten. Given the power of the system and today's development environments, it's going to be a piece of cake, especially if you have annotated source code. All the assets are available, only the game engine code needs to be redone, and it shouldn't be much work in most cases. Sure, it'd be easier to do it on Virtual Console with an emulator, but we're still talking about a fraction of the amount of work to create a new game from scratch. If the demand is there, everything from Tecmo Bowl to Blast Corps could run on 360. Frankly, if I were a third party with a popular game, I'd probably want it out there on VC and XBLA and Gametap, unless somebody threw me a moneyhat...
Regarding all third-party games that were on a Nintendo platform: these can easily be ported to XBLA. NES stuff can be emulated, and SNES and N64 games can be rewritten. Given the power of the system and today's development environments, it's going to be a piece of cake, especially if you have annotated source code. All the assets are available, only the game engine code needs to be redone, and it shouldn't be much work in most cases. Sure, it'd be easier to do it on Virtual Console with an emulator, but we're still talking about a fraction of the amount of work to create a new game from scratch. If the demand is there, everything from Tecmo Bowl to Blast Corps could run on 360. Frankly, if I were a third party with a popular game, I'd probably want it out there on VC and XBLA and Gametap, unless somebody threw me a moneyhat...
Operations
Member
We can only hope, but quite frankly I think that's highly unlikely. Microsoft has set the bar extremely high with the design of Xbox Live, it will be very hard for either Nintendo or Sony to come up with a superior service. Look no further than Nintendo's WiFi Connection service: despite coming second, it's still nothing but a shadow of Xbox Live.SuperPac said:
OG_Original Gamer
Member
You don't think Nintendo hasn't already inked a deal to have GE apart of the virtual console. Its safe to assume Nintendo made GE a priority for licensing deals when the virtual console idea came to fruition.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
beermonkey@tehbias said:
do companies really want to spend all that extra time rewritting code? what if they are missing assets.. do they want to spend the time redoing them? truth of the matter is, you will be seeing more NES, SNES, N64 games on the rev than on XBLA.
SuperPac
Member
Operations said:
It's sad to say as I'm such a Nintendo fan, but their approach to online is very cart-before-horse. They build the technology into their systems (DS wifi, GC bba/modem) but they are clueless as to how best to use them. Though I expect a convenient way to download old NES games via the Rev, that's ALL I expect. I'd like more, but I won't get it.
Beer Monkey
Member
genjiZERO said:
Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini...
OG_Original Gamer said:
Yes, because all of mainstream gaming, not just a small lunatic fringe, are interested in playing old 320x240 FPS games with muddy textures. Hey, it was a great game for its time, and I can understand hardcore players wanting to have it available, but you are overestimating the demand for this title.
quadriplegicjon said:
You do understand that assets are graphics, models, and sound, and that they are easily extracted from the rom and disc images of old games? Also, many classics Atari, Williams, Sega, Namco, and other publishers' games have been rewritten when remade to run on platforms that just don't have the beef to do proper emulation. It's done all the time...
Do people really value old games that you can get anywhere over brand new ones? The best part about XBLA is how it's going to allow smaller developers to try new things without having to worry about the costs involved with production and distribution. I'll take that over rehashes and remakes any day. The only real argument I see for Nintendo's supeiority in this area stems from the possibility that we may end up getting games that were never released in the US. Otherwise, I think Microsoft has the definitive edge.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
beermonkey@tehbias said:
yeah, i wasnt thinking with the assets comment, but how many games have actually been rewritten for other platforms? not many when you think about it.. once again, if you think XBLA will have more NES, SNES and N64 games, you're kidding yourself.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Minotauro said:
who said that revs service wont allow for that? in fact, im pretty sure nintendo mentioned something along those lines already.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Minotauro said:
i wont say im 100% sure they said that.. but i could swear i read it somewhere. anyway, it really wouldnt be a big stretch to allow something like that.
Rare developed the game under Nintendo's license, so like with Donkey Kong and Star Fox they gave up any rights to game code or design in the split. Rare literally has no say in the matter, it's entirely up to EA, Nintendo and MGM is Goldeneye is released on the virtual console.No6 said:
Beer Monkey
Member
quadriplegicjon said:
I've never made such a claim anywhere, nor even implied it.
As far as giving examples, I know that Digital Eclipse has had to do source-code rewrites many times for multiple Atari and Williams games when the target platform wasn't powerful enough for emulation, and that Namco has done the same thing. I have not the interest nor the resources to develop a comprehensive list.
CamHostage
Member
I wonder if, with the popularity of Xbox Live Arcade and the anticipated success of this Rev, maybe some publishers will throw some focus into making new "classics" instead of pumping everything into next-gen.
I'm sure a $5 Sonic "Lost Levels" quickie would do as well or better as any 3D effort. I'm not sure what that kind of market would do for gaming at large -- obviously, future-gen games would get made, but just look at how manic the market got when Sony allowed $19.99 games on PlayStation.
I'm sure a $5 Sonic "Lost Levels" quickie would do as well or better as any 3D effort. I'm not sure what that kind of market would do for gaming at large -- obviously, future-gen games would get made, but just look at how manic the market got when Sony allowed $19.99 games on PlayStation.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
beermonkey@tehbias said:
then why are you making a big stink about this?
beermonkey@tehbias said:
it was a rhetorical question.
quadriplegicjon said:
Jim Merrick said they WILL have third party games. From whom? He said "the usual suspects". So we can assume many of the heavy hitters, Capcom, Squeenix, Konami are already on board.
edit: Oops, sorry you were referring to something else. Well, Nintendo did say something about helping small independent developers. Whether they meant about the Virtual console, or cheaper Rev. game development, I'm not sure.
ghostlyjoe
Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Again, you're really reading into what I'm saying here. I'm a fan of Nintendo's games, but I'm not the blind Nintendo fanboy you're taking me for. My point is simple, and it has nothing to do with Geometry Wars or "future dowlaod services."
My point: The Rev has a leg up on the retro gaming market because Nintendo's first-party software covers a good number of the landmark titles in gaming history (yes, Zelda and Mario). Who grew up playing video games in the 80s and didn't play Super Mario Bros.?
In my personal history, there are games like Tecmo Super Bowl and Bionic Commando that rank among my favorite of all time -- Nintendo had nothing to do with them (well, other than the fact they were NES titles). I'm not saying that only Nintendo titles are great or Nintendo owns the retro gaming market. But if you have a retro gaming service and don't have Nintendo first-party games, then there's a gaping hole in your software offerings.
Regardless, XBLA and the virtual console are just enticing extras, really. It's the new software that will make or break these consoles.
SuperPac
Member
CamHostage said:
Perhaps a few will take a cue from Geometry Wars and make small side projects like that. But on the whole I would say probably not. Witness the third-party GBA scene. There's potential for plenty of money to be made there via new "classics" but large publishers do not devote the resources into developing original IPs for it (or, often, even good games). My guess is that we'll see the best original stuff come out of developers that aren't involved in the mega-publishing-conglomerate system. Will that be as easy/encouraged on the Rev as it is on 360? That's the bigger question.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
If this is true, I'm gonna buy a Revolution on launch, take it home, spraypaint it black, and slap a blue Sega logo decal on there and have a good night.
I'm sure you'll see alot of 8 and 16 bit era software on the Revolution, not just Sega and Nintendo stuff, but all of the greats (Capcom, Konami, etc). You'll certainly be seeing the big Japanese companies, no doubt. Revolution virtual arcade is their best chance for 'free money' (what with the fate of the 360 pretty much decided in Japan)
Mr_Furious
Member
I'm going to remain pessimistic towards Nintendo's downloadable backwards compatible catalog strategy simply based on their need for greed. I'm not willing to fork over $10-$20 per game (which I'm estimating Nintendo will charge for their NES/SNES/N64 top tier titles) when I can get great arcade compilations that have 20+ titles to offer for a similar price. As much as I love Nintendo's games, I'm really starting to not like their greediness.
Beer Monkey
Member
It would certainly help if, like XBLA, Nintendo helped dev port the games and gave them over 50% of the game purchase revenues. That's probably a more progressive approach than Nintendo is interested in.