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[Geometric-Crusher]

2. The designers/hardware developers had nothing to do with SEGA's failures, that was more to do with SEGA management/executives who were mostly gone by 2008. Calling people like Hideki Sato and Masami Ishikawa, who created the consoles, losers just shows you have no idea about SEGA yet you want a new system.

Every console that flops, flops because it was poorly engineered, which is why an architect like Hideki Sato is directly responsible for Sega's near bankruptcy. This guy was the architect of the Sega Saturn no single man did more harm to Sega than he did.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Dreamcast mini

"We are not a retro company" Sega CEO Shuji Utsumi

This guy is responsible for making Sega do AAA projects and is also responsible for making Sega spend the same amount they spent on the Dreamcast project (correcting for inflation).

 

[mayham2199]

Sega dremcast was the first console I got with my own money. Spent about $600+ that day for the consoles/games. Quit my job soon after. Sega should keep doing what they are doing. The large number of fans you talk about isn't large enough to make it worth brining in a new console.

 

[consoul]

If I may say so, it's worth it for Sega fans to protest in front of the company's headquarters to change this reality and draw the company's attention to our cause.

I've been here since October, OP.
It's not going well.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I applaud OP for his dedication to the bit.

Thank you for showing solidarity

 

[Three]

Why would they do this? They would have to steal market share between Nintendo, Sony, and Xbox (including them for the lulz). They're doing just fine as a third-party publisher. They shouldn't risk bankruptcy for this. And they would be risking bankruptcy because the only way they could jump back into the console arena would be to hire the talent, and then to stun the masses with something highly innovative. There is way too much risk to entering the console wars, especially when multiple consoles are already heavily established.

The only way it would work is if they made an expensive "console" that was just a steamOS/Windows machine with sega branding to lure in the nostalgic folk who want a sega "console". Not to far off what Xbox might be doing after their downfall. It's not going to get a huge userbase and it would get no dev support otherwise. Its support needs to be auxiliary.

 

[Fahdis]

As per OP's standard. I want Stadia back.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Every console that flops, flops because it was poorly engineered, which is why an architect like Hideki Sato is directly responsible for Sega's near bankruptcy. This guy was the architect of the Sega Saturn no single man did more harm to Sega than he did.

Dreamcast was very well engineered.

Sega as a brand just wasn't in a good place with the mass market at the time though unfortunately.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Dreamcast was very well engineered.

Sega as a brand just wasn't in a good place with the mass market at the time though unfortunately.

I don't think so. It was noisy, it looked like a toy, the controller is poorly designed, the VMU is superfluous and 128kb, the modem increases the price. There is a consensus among Sega fans that the VMU and modem could have been replaced with more RAM or more GPU power.

 

[MrCunningham]

Back in 2023, there was some Japanese company who showed off their Sega Saturn FPGA project at some trade show. It wasn't official by Sega or anything. Makes me wonder why Sega couldn't get their own Saturn Mini... or a mini Dreamcast... Sega talked about those possibilities in the past, but they thought those mini systems would cost too much. Or would be sold at a higher price.

Sega Saturn Mini Could Become A Reality, Thanks To Retron FPGA

Shown off at TGS 2023

www.timeextension.com

If Sega made new hardware... would it just be an ARM system? Tegra, or some kind of AMD solution? Maybe a custom solution from Japanese company ZUIKI? Who was the supplier for the Sega Genesis/ Mega Drive mini console chipsets. I think if they made a modest system that could play their mobile tier stuff at 4K? Put an FPGA in it for online service emulation? Purchase ROM's or pay an annual fee for streaming from arcade ROM's? I think if Sega made a new console. Could they put in a custom play store and just downl,oad special versions of their mobile APK files? It would be all online service.

 

[Team Andromeda]

There is a consensus among Sega fans that the VMU and modem could have been replaced with more RAM or more GPU power.

No, We SEGA fans think you're a SEGA-hating, SONY-loving troll. That's our consensus

 

[Maogp]

We just want a Dreamcast Mini, that's all

 

[Ozzie666]

Outside of a mini Dreamcast or Saturn, or an all in one Sega box. People really want Sega to go bankrupt and come close to death again.

 

[cireza]

I don't think so. It was noisy, it looked like a toy, the controller is poorly designed, the VMU is superfluous and 128kb, the modem increases the price. There is a consensus among Sega fans that the VMU and modem could have been replaced with more RAM or more GPU power.

First time I hear about this consensus lol.

The Dreamcast was superb, very well engineered. It had great hardware at a great price, and was pretty easy to develop for coming from PS1/Saturn/N64. VMUs were okay, and the modem as well. I actually used it back in the day to play Q3 and PSO (and going on the web) so it made sense for it to be included in my opinion. Chu Chu Rocket was offered to everyone (at least in France) and was an online game.

The controller was big, for sure. Could have been better. But it worked and the layout was fine. And the stick was very good + analog triggers. You could definitely play in very good conditions racing games and FPS with it, among other types of games.

We know that Capcom got the rights and the will to re-release many (arcade ports to) Dreamcast games in the Capcom Collection 2, so maybe this makes it possible to hope for a Dreamcast mini with the likes of Power Stone 2, Star Gladiator (not VGA compatible though) and Project Justice, in their console versions. Would be very cool !

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Sega didn't have enough fans to keep the business running back in 2000 and you think it would have that now lmao.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Not going to happen, (Sega coming back full force on the hardware scene) even one of the original founders David Rosen, said that the company should have always been a software publisher, the market is a lot different to what it was 25 years ago, they would have to out do Sony and Nintendo.. which is a tall order...

 

[VolticArchangel]

I'm the demographic of the Sega fanbase you're talking about, and frankly, I would even give in to your argument that I would buy this hypothetical Dreamcast 2 or Neptune 2 at launch.

The most important fundamental thing you're forgetting is the capital for R&D, which is in the billions of US dollars. You don't get to sing kumbaya with Sony and MS, and suddenly Lisa Su is gonna give you a custom AMD soc for your new console.

It takes more half a decade of time, resources, extremely talented hw and sw engineers, and a mammoth budget, especially in 2025, to plan and release a console. Let alone it's accessories, even as basic as a controller.

Sega Sammy Holdings currently has a market cap of USD 4 billion dollars and 1.5 billion in available cash (+ debt of around 1 billion).

They currently are barely making it in the games business, but are on the right track with old ports, remasters and new software like the new 4 IP revival (Shinobi, Virtua Fighter, Crazy Taxi and Altered Beast) and the future looks bright from that standpoint. Other businesses like gacha, pachinko, merchandise etc add up as a cherry on top to their yearly gross.

There is no reality where the brand is lucrative for an entire console as a separate business, in 2025, when most of us who are aware of the brand, are pushing 40 or in our 40's and 50's, and the younger generation (zoomers and gen alpha) haven't even heard of the name Sega, apart from those 3 Sonic movies that came out recently.

The only 3RD party publisher that was financially secure enough to launch a new console, was Activision, and MS bought them. Not even Take-Two can afford to build a console ecosystem, take care of R&D, logistics and maintanence of digital/retail supply chains, as well as an online storefront and playing infrastructure, when they can just pay these platforms 30%, and call it a day. It's the easier, risk averse route, of "what could happen?" if the console fails against 30+ (20+ for Xbox) year loyal installed bases of the current big 3.

Not happening anytime soon, most likely, never.

 

[Alan Wake]

The best we can hope for is another mini console. Seems like Dreamcast Mini isn't happening, so what's left? Saturn Mini would be nice for sure.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I'm the demographic of the Sega fanbase you're talking about, and frankly, I would even give in to your argument that I would buy this hypothetical Dreamcast 2 or Neptune 2 at launch.

The most important fundamental thing you're forgetting is the capital for R&D, which is in the billions of US dollars. You don't get to sing kumbaya with Sony and MS, and suddenly Lisa Su is gonna give you a custom AMD soc for your new console.

It takes more half a decade of time, resources, extremely talented hw and sw engineers, and a mammoth budget, especially in 2025, to plan and release a console. Let alone it's accessories, even as basic as a controller.

Sega Sammy Holdings currently has a market cap of USD 4 billion dollars and 1.5 billion in available cash (+ debt of around 1 billion).

They currently are barely making it in the games business, but are on the right track with old ports, remasters and new software like the new 4 IP revival (Shinobi, Virtua Fighter, Crazy Taxi and Altered Beast) and the future looks bright from that standpoint. Other businesses like gacha, pachinko, merchandise etc add up as a cherry on top to their yearly gross.

There is no reality where the brand is lucrative for an entire console as a separate business, in 2025, when most of us who are aware of the brand, are pushing 40 or in our 40's and 50's, and the younger generation (zoomers and gen alpha) haven't even heard of the name Sega, apart from those 3 Sonic movies that came out recently.

The only 3RD party publisher that was financially secure enough to launch a new console, was Activision, and MS bought them. Not even Take-Two can afford to build a console ecosystem, take care of R&D, logistics and maintanence of digital/retail supply chains, as well as an online storefront and playing infrastructure, when they can just pay these platforms 30%, and call it a day. It's the easier, risk averse route, of "what could happen?" if the console fails against 30+ (20+ for Xbox) year loyal installed bases of the current big 3.

Not happening anytime soon, most likely, never.

we are entering the second half of the year, wait for the year to end before being so pessimistic

 

[TheMan]

I would settle for software compilations of Saturn and DC games for modern consoles. The world does not need to see Sega flounder with their version of the Ouya

 

[BlackTron]

I don't think so. It was noisy, it looked like a toy, the controller is poorly designed, the VMU is superfluous and 128kb, the modem increases the price. There is a consensus among Sega fans that the VMU and modem could have been replaced with more RAM or more GPU power.

My response to this post is the second time I've ever been moderated...

 

[BlackTron]

How could the VMU have been replaced with more RAM if the VMU did not even come in the box and therefore did not contribute to the cost of the system? It's like saying PS1 memory cards could have been removed to add more RAM. How did SEGA fans arrive at such a "consensus"?

 

[ROJM]

Every console that flops, flops because it was poorly engineered, which is why an architect like Hideki Sato is directly responsible for Sega's near bankruptcy. This guy was the architect of the Sega Saturn no single man did more harm to Sega than he did.

You didn't even KNOW who he was until I brought him up. The same guy also designed Genesis and DC. So your stance against the main engineer of consoles at SEGA shows you were clearly not around at the time when these systems were out, and do not know what actually went down during that period. Stop wasting my time. The fact you brought up the saturn design when it was the management that messed things up, which any longterm fan KNOWS, shows you don't know what you are talking about. Your argument is troll like. You want SEGA to make a new system which indicates that you are a fan of SEGA hardware design. Yet you call the guy who created the majority of these systems a loser. Therefore you cannot possibly be a fan of SEGA consoles which therefore contradicts you wanting a new system. This thread let alone your comments on this topic smells of attention seeking. Now stop wasting my time. I won't be reading or responding from a person who has no clue on the topic at hand. But I'm sure the gullible and your fragile ego to save face will require you to get the last word on an argument I'm no longer participating in.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

How could the VMU have been replaced with more RAM if the VMU did not even come in the box and therefore did not contribute to the cost of the system?

These are decisions made in the early stages. "Should we use more RAM?" "No, let's make a memory card with a small screen."

How did SEGA fans arrive at such a "consensus"?

They think about these things seriously. There are a lot of them in the comments of videos related to the Dreamcast architecture.
Sega Lord X Let's Save the Sega Dreamcast etc

 

[ROJM]

No, We SEGA fans think you're a SEGA-hating, SONY-loving troll. That's our consensus

Exactly. And long time, no see.

 

[AJUMP23]

Sega should only make HW again in the console business if they want to cease to exist as a company.

 

[BlackTron]

These are decisions made in the early stages. "Should we use more RAM?" "No, let's make a memory card with a small screen."

You cannot show how these are correlated in any way shape or form. For example, maybe Nintendo would decide to use a smaller SSD so they can add more RAM. Thought process: "they can always add a SD card, so let's lock in the RAM using that same money without changing the price".

What is the thought process here? How did that trade off work? At this time, you needed a way to save games. The industry wide solution was memory cards. I don't remember the price of a PS1 card, but the N64 card was 19.99 and it didn't do anything. The DC memory card was also 19.99, but added a screen and buttons. It was the same tech as a Tamagotchi which cost about the same amount, only this allowed you to send games to the VMU or have a screen in the controller.

If they had removed the VMU, how would that translate to any cost savings that resulted in additional RAM? Well, it wouldn't.

They think about these things seriously. There are a lot of them in the comments of videos related to the Dreamcast architecture.
Sega Lord X Let's Save the Sega Dreamcast etc

Show me.

 

[ROJM]

The reality is, SegaSammy had the chance to release a system decades ago. Xbox is not a big hitter in japan and they could have easily let SEGA create a new hardware system for home markets to replace it as the third gunner in japan or the rest of asia. Guess what...they didn't. Any hardware creation was done for the arcades and now thats been minimised. Severely. All the sammy management are interested in is content creation. Any hardware they heavily invested in is on the pachislot/panchinko/ slot machines aka fruit machines side of the business which their latest acquisition in GAN reaffirms that. Everything on the SEGA side is for licensing and cross promotion platform purposes. As long as SegaSammy era of SEGA continues, there wont be a new SEGA system. And since SEGA sems to be moving away from console to digital content and distribution, the era of game systems as well kow it probably wont be around in 20 years time.

 

[RAIDEN1]

The reality is, SegaSammy had the chance to release a system decades ago. Xbox is not a big hitter in japan and they could have easily let SEGA create a new hardware system for home markets to replace it as the third gunner in japan or the rest of asia. Guess what...they didn't. Any hardware creation was done for the arcades and now thats been minimised. Severely. All the sammy management are interested in is content creation. Any hardware they heavily invested in is on the pachislot/panchinko/ slot machines aka fruit machines side of the business which their latest acquisition in GAN reaffirms that. Everything on the SEGA side is for licensing and cross promotion platform purposes. As long as SegaSammy era of SEGA continues, there wont be a new SEGA system. And since SEGA sems to be moving away from console to digital content and distribution, the era of game systems as well kow it probably wont be around in 20 years time.

Well yeah I mean let's not forget the Sega brand is lucky to be alive today, Sammy was the one to keep it alive, otherwise Sega could quite easily have ended up like 3DO, Commodore, Atari...

 

[Mozza]

Unlike Atari, which made its return to consoles in 1993 after spending half a generation away from it, Sega has not yet made its return and many generations have passed.

However, Sega has something that Atari from 1993 never had, which is a legion of die-hard fans. Modern Sega also has dozens of tested franchises capable of sustaining its business (Valkyria Chronicles, Metaphor, Persona, LaD, Sonic, Bayonetta, Alien, Total War, PSO2, Border Break) something they didn't have before, the luck of a Sega console depended on Sonic, today if a Sonic is bad in sales there is Persona to cover.

Arcade board Sega Alls (Amusement Linkage Live System) a good design for a Sega console would be the middle ground between this case and the Saturn.
vertical console has no Sega DNA.

I've been observing the direction of the industry for a while now and it's undeniable that fans of Sega consoles have become more active in remembering the company's past failures. Yes, a new console is needed, we are alive, Sega is making a profit, they cannot want us to play Sega Genesis until the end, that is not the attitude of a company towards its fans.

If I may say so, it's worth it for Sega fans to protest in front of the company's headquarters to change this reality and draw the company's attention to our cause.

Yes, Atari went bankrupt but we can't compare it to Sega which has the Pachinko market to cover a possible flop. But honestly I doubt it will flop, it's impossible to sell less than 5 million year by year.

Yes a legion of die-hard fans that did not buy their last console lol. Unless of course you mean legion as in 5000.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Exactly. And long time, no see.

Yep, nice to see you mate. It's been a long time since the SEGA nerd/bits days LOL

 

[tr1p1ex]

how about just make some quality games. Make Sega Great Again.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

how about just make some quality games. Make Sega Great Again.

Sega is at its peak in sales and game quality, the next Shinobi will be the best in the series, bro this is no longer that weak Sega that many of us know
the winds are different now, explain to him Fat Frog .

 

[BlackTron]

So your stance against the main engineer of consoles at SEGA shows you were clearly not around at the time when these systems were out, and do not know what actually went down during that period. Stop wasting my time.

This is the impression I always get from this guy. He has this weird fascination with Sega that seems to stem more from YouTube videos than having actually been there. He just parrots stuff he hears online. Like if anybody on YouTube actually said DC made the mistake of trading RAM for the VMU. Don't fall for that edgelord view bait filler so easily. It's like all the Switch 2 hate YouTubers, only it's easy to tell they are wrong because you are actually alive for it.

 

[Mobilemofo]

Nostalgia generally doesn't equate to sales. This applies to sega. Even back then, I never bought the 32x as I thought it was a bad idea. Never knew how bad it would be after that tho. Christ.

 

[cartman414]

First time I hear about this consensus lol.

The Dreamcast was superb, very well engineered. It had great hardware at a great price, and was pretty easy to develop for coming from PS1/Saturn/N64. VMUs were okay, and the modem as well. I actually used it back in the day to play Q3 and PSO (and going on the web) so it made sense for it to be included in my opinion. Chu Chu Rocket was offered to everyone (at least in France) and was an online game.

The controller was big, for sure. Could have been better. But it worked and the layout was fine. And the stick was very good + analog triggers. You could definitely play in very good conditions racing games and FPS with it, among other types of games.

We know that Capcom got the rights and the will to re-release many (arcade ports to) Dreamcast games in the Capcom Collection 2, so maybe this makes it possible to hope for a Dreamcast mini with the likes of Power Stone 2, Star Gladiator (not VGA compatible though) and Project Justice, in their console versions. Would be very cool !

The layout was an inferior middle ground. Only 4 face buttons and no 2nd analog stick. Not to mention an inferior d-pad.

 

[cireza]

The layout was an inferior middle ground. Only 4 face buttons and no 2nd analog stick. Not to mention an inferior d-pad.

It was perfectly fine for the time. No game needed 2 sticks, excepted FPS, and the 4 face buttons just worked for movement for these games. The dpad is fine, I played countless hours of fighting games on this dpad.

 

[intheinbetween]

SEGA is (probably) a healthy gaming company, I don't think it would be a smart business decision to take the risks of investing in a proprietary hardware platform for this exclusives.

It's not going to happen.

 

[tylrdiablos]

I want to say I'd be happy with a Dreamcast mini... but I know I'd buy it and it'd sit there untouched like the NES and SNES mini's I purchased.

 

[BlackTron]

I think the only thing that caused consternation (among Sega fans) back then was that the controller only had 4 face buttons. Remember we are going from the Saturn 6 button pad, and even Genesis had one. I don't think it had any effect commercially, certainly less than the way the controller looked which people didn't really like. I mean, shit even N64 had 6 face buttons...

We can talk about many reasons DC failed but one reason it did not fail was poorly engineered hardware. It has to be one of the best engineered consoles of all time, especially given the resources available of the day and the final price tag. If anyone thinks it was engineered badly it sure as hell isn't Sega fans. Perhaps modern day video game "experts" who weren't even alive then.

 

[BattleScar]

I hear Elon is in the market for starting a new video game company as another one of his pet projects/ money sinks. He could instead just buy Sega and then release the Sega Galaxia: a console that plays every Sega console and arcade game ever made.

Imagine the possibilities - The Sega Galaxia: Elon Musk Signature Edition

Nice logo

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

It was perfectly fine for the time. No game needed 2 sticks, excepted FPS, and the 4 face buttons just worked for movement for these games. The dpad is fine, I played countless hours of fighting games on this dpad.

I know your style of being a fan, you basically like things just because they are what they are.
You know that 2 analog sticks are better than 1, but since the Dreamcast controller only has one analog stick by mind pressure, you end up defending the indefensible. This means that you could not participate in the creation of a new Sega console, as the final design would be a potential flop repeating the same mistakes.

 

[cireza]

This means that you could not participate in the creation of a new Sega console, as the final design would be a potential flop repeating the same mistakes.

Bro, this is your attention seeking dreamland here, not mine. You can fantasize making a new SEGA console that would be perfect by your own criteria as much as you want, knock yourself out ! I have no intention of being a part of it. And no, you don't know me.

Back then, which was 1999-2001, having two sticks was absolute NOT a MUST HAVE like it is nowadays. I don't recall that people were like "oh my god where is the second stick ?" when they picked the controller for the first time. Because I lived through this period, which doesn't look like it is your case. It wasn't the norm, but that's logical, as the vast majority of the games did not need a second stick at all. Only the PS1 had two sticks, and that was only the later revision of the controller. Most players were stuck with the base controller. The modern FPS layout was pretty much invented by the Saturn Analogic Controller, and the Dreamcast was exactly this same layout, but it worked much better with 4 face buttons instead of 6... which is exactly what everybody did in the end.

 

[Hero_Select]

Noone one is going to buy a Sega console to play another mediocre Sonic game

 

[Badlucktroll]

i want the sega saga to continue

 

[snapdragon]

SEGA technically has the assets to launch a new system. There's enough Sonic fans out there to do it. Add Atlus, among others you could feasibly have enough of a userbase to have a strong launch. If SEGA had a proper management that would be able to utilise what they got. Maintaining it though and adding new users to buy the system after the launch year is the issue.

The problem with this type of debate is reality and people ignoring that reality because they have little to no understanding on what SEGA is today.

1. Its not up to SEGA whether they want a new system, its up to Sammy who actually OWNS SEGA.
Sammy management that runs SegaSammy have no interest in making home console systems. Believe it or not, this topic actually came up within five years into the SEGASammy era, when what was left of the old guard at SEGA lobbied Sammy to let them go back into the console business. This was when, thanks to the panchinko/pachislot money, Sammy was throwing their cash around which they invested into letting SEGA europe buy The Creative Assembly as well as SEGA of america make all its contract deals and buying expensive licenses like Marvel and Alien or the PG deal. The result was the old stalwarts left SEGA or were fired depending who you talk to after Sammy refused. The president of SEGA of america at the time got backlash from fans because he mentioned this in a interview as well as the fact Yu Suzuki was no longer at the company. As long as sammy is in control, as well as the stockholders there will not be a new SEGA system.

2. Many of the people who could have created a new system are not in SEGA.
When SEGA scrapped the DC, a lot of the factories that SEGA owned that mass produced the system, including previous systems and hardware, were mostly closed down. The ones that weren't were the ones involved in arcade manufacturing and they are no longer what they use to be either. Financially in order to produce a new system, SEGA not only has to spend on R+D but they have to invest in manufacturing and the staff needed to do it. Then on top of that, the main console designers aren't there anymore. None of the current staff have engineering experience and hasn't worked in a culture where hardware was prominent in SEGA. So even if they did return the system will not be as SEGA as people would want it to be.

3. The SEGA fanbase.
The SEGA fanbase is not what it was back in the 90s and half of it is SEGA's fault. SEGA does not have a united fanbase like Sony and Nintendo has. Even capcom. The issue SEGA has and what they are trying to fix, is that what SEGA has at the moment are fans of games they PUBLISH and not fans of th SEGA brand. A sony fan or nintendo fan is most likely going to buy any type of first party game they will put out. Even if the customer is not a fan of a game genre that these companies make, they would try it because they are fans of the brand and all that comes with it. Thats what makes or break a successful new IP launch for these companies. That use to be the same for SEGA when they were a console producer. But SEGA screwed it up. The first and continuing screw up is the fracturing between fanbases between people who were fans of SEGA's arcade games and people who were fans of SEGA game consoles. During the saturn era and earlier in the genesis era, SEGA started to keep certain games as arcade exclusives and not port them. This continued into the saturn era and the DC era and became a glaring hole in their current third party era. Without regular ports it kept SEGA from gaining new arcade fans while the arcade fanbase had little to no interest in buying a system for a game that SEGA was updating in the arcades regularly anyway. Especially when those games didnt have a port. So when you have a fractured fanbase divided by two platforms(added by other circumstances like what happened to the arcade market in the west) and your not doing anything to bring them together(by not porting the game people want) you leave money on the table to a degree.

The second mistake was SEGA's failure to maintain and grow its console userbase after the Dreamcast. When SEGA went third party not all of their fanbase went with them. Half of them quit since they couldnt fathom playing a SEGA game on a non SEGA system. To them including myself, we believed SEGA had the best hardware, SEGA been making consoles as far as many of us could remember. And now SEGA is dropping hardware and making games for companies that tried to put it out of business? There was no way any of those guys were going to buy a nintendo system to play SEGA games. EVER. The PS2 situation was that many SEGA fans blamed sony for the DC's demise and the news that VIRTUA FIGHTER 4 would be a PS2 exclusive was the straw that broke the camel's back. Add to the fact that the DC was a great system with great games and which had won many SEGA fans back to the company after the western Saturn fiasco and their experience in gaming up to that point was whoever had the best games usually had success. But that didn't happen this time. To them it was no longer a gamers world it had become dominated by casuals who thought sony created video games. So they either quit gaming altogether, some migrated to PC gaming, some went to what was left of the arcades. The fans that did stay behind went with the Xbox because they thought SEGA would be strongly supporting it. When they didn't, that was it. While SEGA had success on PS2 and gamecube, it wasn't driven by actual SEGA fans but by people who never played or had limited experience with SEGA. Because a lot of the SEGA dev studios were allowed to pick and choose which system they wanted to make games for, and not follow an all platform for key game franchises that companies like capcom sometimes favoured, they lost a lot of fans who were into the SEGA brand.

This leads to the current situation. A lot of the people buying SEGA games today are not SEGA fans but are fans of certain games that SEGA publishes. There is little to no cross over as these fans only buy these games they are a fan of from SEGA. They wouldn't buy a brand new title from them. Which is why (partially) games like Binary Domain flopped and most other attempts to launch new IP has stalled. Sonic fans are only interested in Sonic. Most of the sonic fanbase today were nintendo gamers who brought Sonic when it first appeared on gamecube the GBA and then the Wii and NDS. The SEGA acquired Total War and Football Manager titles and the fanbase they have will only buy those titles and less likely would buy a SEGA game (for various reasons). Like A Dragon may be different but from i've seen a lot of the newer fans that joined in are just in for that series. Atlus doesnt have this problem because they have managed to maintain and grow their userbase where you can see the growth of their franchises, some of which were never million unit sellers, now reach that point or launch a successful launch of a new IP. Where SEGA failed was to ensure that any game, new and old was collectilvy branded under the SEGA brand and fully integrated especially the fanbases that these games have. A complete opposite on what tookplace during the Genesis era where games not even made by SEGA are still remembered as being SEGA.

As for the nostalgia SEGA fans or claim to be one, the reality is there's not enough of you around. We haven't been sustaining the company during the SEGAsammy era. The idea that SEGA is making a return to satisfy us, is delusional. They not. They trying to get new customers into the brand. Thats why JSR and Crazy Taxi will be GAAS style titles. That's why VF has been rebranded and going in the direction they going in. That's why they haven't bothered to return Phantasy Star to what it was in the 90s. The difference is, they not marketing these upcoming games as their own thing but under the banner of SEGA.

So even if SEGA launched a SEGA system, how many of these fans today would buy it and not just stick with the company hardware producer they really are a fan of? This new era strategy from SEGA is their attempt to address that, most likely trying to create new fans for the brand who will be fans of the brand and securing at least cross game pollination where they would buy a new IP from SEGA which the current userbase doesnt in large numbers.

summarized it perfectly

If I were Sega, I would honestly try to export Sonic fans to other Sega IPs. For example, a new NiGHTS Game would be heavily inspired by Sonic artistically and would have a ton of bonus stages based on Sonic levels, The game would also be a fast-paced platformer with a dedicated time attack mode

This could work for JSR as well, based on how popular Sonic skins were in bomb rush cyberfunk

 

[BlackTron]

I know your style of being a fan, you basically like things just because they are what they are.
You know that 2 analog sticks are better than 1, but since the Dreamcast controller only has one analog stick by mind pressure, you end up defending the indefensible. This means that you could not participate in the creation of a new Sega console, as the final design would be a potential flop repeating the same mistakes.

I'm a fan of the NES. But because 4 buttons are better than 2, I have no say in how to make a good Nintendo console.

"But Tron, two buttons were enough at the time. The SNES with shoulder buttons and all that had never been done yet""

We don't talk about that here

Edit: Ok sorry. The dual shock was indeed in existence, but that shouldn't take away from the point I am making. It wasn't even the default pack-in controller. At this time, a second analog stick was not "standard kit". The industry had only just arrived at making a single stick standard kit, and was still grappling with new ways of making games and how to handle all the new complexity in new control schemes. Mario 64 and Ocarina were very influential games for 3D, and neither used a second stick.

Later on, the Wii removed the stick completely and only granted one with an add-on accessory. Finding the balance of usability and simplicity is a big deal. Nobody knew that it would be settled on as dual analog at the time of DC. There is also cost - it's a hall stick and it only cost thirty bucks. We can call it an error on hindsight but it was far from an obvious one at the time.

 

[p_xavier]

First time I hear about this consensus lol.

The Dreamcast was superb, very well engineered. It had great hardware at a great price, and was pretty easy to develop for coming from PS1/Saturn/N64. VMUs were okay, and the modem as well. I actually used it back in the day to play Q3 and PSO (and going on the web) so it made sense for it to be included in my opinion. Chu Chu Rocket was offered to everyone (at least in France) and was an online game.

The controller was big, for sure. Could have been better. But it worked and the layout was fine. And the stick was very good + analog triggers. You could definitely play in very good conditions racing games and FPS with it, among other types of games.

We know that Capcom got the rights and the will to re-release many (arcade ports to) Dreamcast games in the Capcom Collection 2, so maybe this makes it possible to hope for a Dreamcast mini with the likes of Power Stone 2, Star Gladiator (not VGA compatible though) and Project Justice, in their console versions. Would be very cool !

Now I have the song in my head.

 

[cartman414]

Bro, this is your attention seeking dreamland here, not mine. You can fantasize making a new SEGA console that would be perfect by your own criteria as much as you want, knock yourself out ! I have no intention of being a part of it. And no, you don't know me.

Back then, which was 1999-2001, having two sticks was absolute NOT a MUST HAVE like it is nowadays. I don't recall that people were like "oh my god where is the second stick ?" when they picked the controller for the first time. Because I lived through this period, which doesn't look like it is your case. It wasn't the norm, but that's logical, as the vast majority of the games did not need a second stick at all. Only the PS1 had two sticks, and that was only the later revision of the controller. Most players were stuck with the base controller. The modern FPS layout was pretty much invented by the Saturn Analogic Controller, and the Dreamcast was exactly this same layout, but it worked much better with 4 face buttons instead of 6... which is exactly what everybody did in the end.

The Saturn analog pad had a less bulky form and the same superior d-pad. If you were ok with the DC d-pad, that's fine, but it was still a marked downgrade from the Saturn one.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

Microsoft brought on many SEGA of America staff to launch XBOX.