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[VendettaRed07]

Also remember that Comey is Obama's fault.

Obama cost Hillary this election.

Obama didn't cost her shit. He did far more for her than any out going President in history and it still wasn't enough.


If anything Hillary cost Obama because now his legislation and legacy is being torn to shreds. He most likely more so regrets appointing her as Secratary of State than he regrets Comey

 

[krazen]

We're losing sight of the thread. We've already gone over ad nauseum; Bernie, Hilary's flaws, the media, Trumps hair color, etc.

But the fact that one of the most secretive organizations in the US, that has a history of going 'rogue'...actively did things to influence a presidential election?

Fucking scary.

Similar to the hacking...Yeah, we can debate points of the election probably forever the way this went and who (and how) they fucked up.

But the fact that institutions (foreign and internal) actively influenced an election... no matter how small a difference...again, fucking scary.

On both sides of the aisle there should be fireworks. All this talk of democracy...doesnt seem that democratic does it?

 

[Zips]

People really have trouble considering multiple factors at work it seems.

Hillary was flawed and made some bad mistakes, yes. Comey was blatant in his actions though, and quite possibly was the deciding moment.

Regardless - he needs to be punished, and more formal regulation of the CIA and any other agency that could do similar damage needs to occur.

My expectation is neither of those things will happen. America is a giant mess right now. I very much hope the damage is largely confined to your own borders. We've already got some people trying to pick up on Trump's lessons here in Canada though.

 

[Sulik2]

The fact the DNC is just rolling over and accepting the results of this election is just pitiful. The RNC would have fought this tooth and nail with this much evidence of foul play from Russia and the FBI, the DNC should too.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Dems to stop using emails?

Nah. Just if someone has that type of weight on their shoulders, even it it's bullshit, we gotta actually measure it like it could cost the election. But even then I think hillary still runs because everyone had her back. Maybe we're just in uncharted waters indeed.

 

[Melkezadek]

All of this is true.

Not a Bernie Bro by any means, but his message strongly resonated with a lot of people. Instead of pointing fingers (and no, I don't believe accusing Clinton of being a bad candidate or running a bad campaign is pointing fingers) the party should refocus their message and move forward. What I don't want to see is the party elite burying their head in the sand and looking to a convenient scapegoat on tap to justify an embarrassing defeat.

And the joint effort that Bernie and Clinton presented after he conceited should have resonated with the entire nation. Too bad no one cared to listen.

Their proposal to make public college free for those who make less than 100k a year, could have fundamentally transformed this nation. I think about all the inner city kids like me, who couldn't afford to go to college. Having access to a higher education to get better jobs could inspire the kid who didn't do so well in their senior year in highschool, but wants to pursue a better career. Now instead of working 2 jobs and needing to sell drugs just to live, he would've had an alternate path. Or rather an easier way to get there.

It breaks my fucking heart that no one cared more about this. What a tradegy.

 

[Wilsongt]

The fact the DNC is just rolling over and accepting the results of this election is just pitiful. The RNC would have fought this tooth and nail with this much evidence of foul play from Russia and the FBI, the DNC should too.

DNC and Dems don't control enough to start and investigation without it getting blocked

 

[legacyzero]

Tim Kaine 2020!

Lol

I do not deny that Clinton should have been less passive in that area. Nor do I deny that she was a flawed candidate.

However, mounting evidence suggests the opposite of the deflection you are attempting to execute here.

HUH? The evidence is her loss of the election.

Second most voted for candidate in American history, behind only Obama in 2008. "Voter couldn't swallow voting for her".

Yep. Mental gymnastics.

More Bernie worship. Every time.

Ironically, the same people will claim that "Hillary supporters" are "sheep". People just can't let it go.

Yea, let's ignore everything that's coming to light because we hate her so much. Beyond childish and the lack of empathy to those who will now suffer because of her loss depresses me.

I see that L is still too hot to hold. He was the better candidate. PERIOD. But Identity Politics and platitudes and "sexism" mixed with establishment meddling buried him.

Now we're ALL feelin the Bern, huh.

It's useless to argue with these people, they are just as bad as the alt-right zealots who blame everything on illegal immigration. The only difference is they don't actually vote. Everything is Clinton's fault, even all of the Bernie Approved™ candidates getting shellacked up and down the ballot. It's funny how they blame everything on Clinton's candidacy or campaign, yet ignore the fact that Bernie lost the primary because he was a shitty candidate that had no clue how to run a proper campaign.

Are you seriously comparing Bernie supporters to White Supremecists?

 

[VendettaRed07]

The fact the DNC is just rolling over and accepting the results of this election is just pitiful. The RNC would have fought this tooth and nail with this much evidence of foul play from Russia and the FBI, the DNC should too.

Why it was so smart of Trump to be coy with accepting the election results. Hillary and the media jumped all over it and gushed about the fairness of our elections and how shameful it was for him.

They had no political capitol after how much of a talking point that became to fight it without looking like hypocrites.

We were aware of the fact that Russia was tampering with the election beforehand and should not have dismissed the possibility of tampering in his favor like they did

 

[Inuhanyou]

Well, i atleast give the Democrats credit, atleast they are not blaming the voters directly anymore for not being inspired by, or not believing in their lackluster showing, as if they were owed the votes and demographics they didn't get without doing anything.

They had been doing that the entire campaign season already, basically shaming those people, the millennials, the lower class people, the two time Obama voters, and many of the half of eligible voters who didn't vote in general. and then expected to somehow gain their votes on the basis of fear mongering, which traditionally never works ever.

It would have been completely ridiculous for them to try now to still push that narrative even after they lost and ceded any moral or political ground.

Oh wait, they are still doing it? What a surprise.

 

[Azzanadra]

For once, the gaf collective is correct then.

I'm sick of this party making excuses. Nothing should have prevented Clinton from winning... Nothing.

Bloodborne robbed again... is there no justice!

But yeah I agree, it was the campaign through and through- sure Comey might have something to do with it, but if the campaign was competent they would have destroyed Trump regardless. I'm tired of blaming Comey/Bernie/poor people/the disenfranchised/the voters for the campaigns fuckups.

 

[Limit]

He was in a lose lose situation. If he hadn't said anything and there was indeed something serious there then he would have been blamed for being a dem lackey who didn't blow the whistle on time. Assuming Clinton had won, of course.

 

[Melkezadek]

Lol

HUH? The evidence is her loss of the election.

Yep. Mental gymnastics.

I see that L is still too hot to hold. He was the better candidate. PERIOD. But Identity Politics and platitudes and "sexism" mixed with establishment meddling buried him.

Now we're ALL feelin the Bern, huh.


Are you seriously comparing Bernie supporters to White Supremecists?

"Holding that L"?

I voted for Berie in the primaries. My family now is in a worse off spot because of Trump's election win.

This is real life with real consequences on innocent people. Enough of this politician worship bullshit.

I hate that these Bernie/Bust type supporters, because they try to be the voice of all former Bernie primary supporters. You don't represent my voice. When he lost the primary, I backed Clinton because her policy was closer to Bernie's. The democratic platform represented the values and policy I wanted to see implemented. I didn't have to like her. She wasn't going to deviate from the path of progress the Obama administration laid out. To think otherwise was just allowing yourself to believe she was that "untrustworthy". It's nonsense. Nothing but primary pettiness.

 

[Maxim726X]

Investigations into Comey's motivations and proper punishment, retaliation against Russia, keeping these factors in the mindshare of the American voter instead of going "yyyup" and sweeping it under the rug. When's the last time any of this shit was a top headline in the 24-hour cable news networks? All they're focusing on is Trump's circus of cabinet picks, just more masturbatory "oh my god he did what????" nonsense.

I agree with this on all counts... I don't want the party to lay down and die, but I also don't want them using these incidences as a crutch, preventing them from some much-needed soul searching. That's my larger point.

I hope that there are investigations into the FBI, the Russian interference, all of it. And if Trump or Comey were in any way complicit I hope they get hung out to dry.

 

[Kodros]

If Comey didn't come out and conclude that no new information was discovered before the voting started, then yeah, I'd say some people would have probably gotten swayed. But the last hour voters knew that nothing came out of that initial BS Comey announcement. Also, this email scandal has been in the news for a real long time so people either gave a crap or didn't give a crap well before he did that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Obama didn't cost her shit. He did far more for her than any out going President in history and it still wasn't enough.


If anything Hillary cost Obama because now his legislation and legacy is being torn to shreds. He most likely more so regrets appointing her as Secratary of State than he regrets Comey

I mean the democratic party lost more than the presidency under Obama's lead.
They can't even impeach trump if they wanted.

 

[Wilsongt]

He was in a lose lose situation. If he hadn't said anything and there was indeed something serious there then he would have been blamed for being a dem lackey who didn't blow the whistle on time. Assuming Clinton had won, of course.

He could have also not had been vague and mentioned the probe dealt with Anthony fucking Weiner and not Clinton.

 

[EatinOlives]

Lol

HUH? The evidence is her loss of the election.

Yep. Mental gymnastics.

I see that L is still too hot to hold. He was the better candidate. PERIOD. But Identity Politics and platitudes and "sexism" mixed with establishment meddling buried him.

Now we're ALL feelin the Bern, huh.


Are you seriously comparing Bernie supporters to White Supremecists?

Stuff like this is embarrassing. Here we have a litany of extremely eyebrow-raising issues that occurred during the election, many instances of foul play and incidents that are extremely worrisome and could be bad signs of things to come moving forward, and all people like you are interested in doing is stanning for your preferred candidate and pretending that he alone was the sole lord and savior of the election.

Where will you be when the same foul play occurs in 2020 and Bernie and Hillary have both been relegated to the back pages of political history? Still stanning for your bro and trashing Hillary? You're fervently ignoring all other factors because they're not convenient, all you can do is plug your ears and shout "MENTAL GYMNASTICS!"

I agree with this on all counts... I don't want the party to lay down and die, but I also don't want them using these incidences as a crutch, preventing them from some much-needed soul searching. That's my larger point.

I hope that there are investigations into the FBI, the Russian interference, all of it. And if Trump or Comey were in any way complicit I hope they get hung out to dry.

I agree, soul searching absolutely required, and the Democrats badly need new, young, exciting blood to be injected into their party. That's why I'm not at all excited about a possible Biden run in 2020. He's a fantastic politician but absolutely not what the party needs. After 4 years of what will be lame duck presidency from our Orange Asshole, we'll need a young and agile up-and-comer to run circles around him, not another old-guard Dad-type who's nearing 80.

But at the same time, stuff like what's in the OP is absolutely important, because the GOP will try to do the same in the future. Every effort of undermining votes will happen. If they succeed on that front to the extent that they want to, it won't even matter who the Democrats run.

 

[legacyzero]

"Holding that L"?

I voted for Berie in the primaries. My family now is in a worse off spot because of Trump's election win.

This is real life with real consequences on innocent people. Enough of this politician worship bullshit.

Same here. But no thanks.

Bernie supporters got shouted down here on GAF so bad, and then most refuse to see the obvious truth to why she lost.

 

[Maxim726X]

Same here. But no thanks.

Bernie supporters got shouted down here on GAF so bad, and then most refuse to see the obvious truth to why she lost.

I mean, he lost legitimately. By a lot.

Who cares? It's in the past... His candidacy is over and now we have to pick up the pieces. This in-party bickering isn't helping anything.

 

[StormKing]

Would Comey have been a problem if Clinton didn't have a private email server?

 

[legacyzero]

Stuff like this is embarrassing. Here we have a litany of extremely eyebrow-raising issues that occurred during the election, many instances of foul play and incidents that are extremely worrisome and could be bad signs of things to come moving forward, and all people like you are interested in doing is stanning for your preferred candidate and pretending that he alone was the sole lord and savior of the election.

Where will you be when the same foul play occurs in 2020 and Bernie and Hillary have both been relegated to the back pages of political history? Still stanning for your bro and trashing Hillary? You're fervently ignoring all other factors because they're not convenient, all you can do is plug your ears and shout "MENTAL GYMNASTICS!"

Oh come on. The same crooked shit happened in the Primary where Hillary and the DNC screwed Bernie over. And the same mental gymnastics happened even then.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I mean the democratic party lost more than the presidency under Obama's lead.
They can't even impeach trump if they wanted.

Elevating Hillary's incompitent friends like DWS and Kaine to head the DNC didn't have an insignificant role in this happening. But yeah I guess that part is still on him.

 

[EatinOlives]

Oh come on. The same crooked shit happened in the Primary where Hillary and the DNC screwed Bernie over. And the same mental gymnastics happened even then.

Like when she STOLE the Nevada delegates, m i rite???

smh, you're not trying to have any kind of conversation here. You're completely arguing off-topic, this is a thread about Comey's and by extension the FBI's involvement in the election, which is extremely concerning moving forward for future elections. You're hopelessly myopic.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Bloodborne robbed again... is there no justice!

But yeah I agree, it was the campaign through and through- sure Comey might have something to do with it, but if the campaign was competent they would have destroyed Trump regardless. I'm tired of blaming Comey/Bernie/poor people/the disenfranchised/the voters for the campaigns fuckups.

Jeezus people, what do you think is more important for the country to analyze in depth: the fact that a politician ran a crummy campaign or that the FBI directly involved itself in the political process? Why are people so willing to dismiss the most glaringly fucked up election with unfair influences FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC INSTITUTIONS? No let's bitch at Hill because she didn't go to more flyover towns.

She lost for a lot of reasons and some of them are fucking frightening.

 

[Stinkles]

Ironically, if they called for a reelection now, I'd pick Bernie, because it would look like an olive branch to the "economically anxious." And he'd be a fine president anyway.

And if he'd won the primary, I'd have voted for him happily.

But Busters are rewriting history now, rather than just ignoring it.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Bernie supporters got shouted down here on GAF so bad

If you look at the behavior of his supporters here and elsewhere, the reason for that should be readily apparent.

Oh come on. The same crooked shit happened in the Primary where Hillary and the DNC screwed Bernie over. And the same mental gymnastics happened even then.

See, it's shit like this that I'm talking about. The persecution complex some of you people have is ridiculous.

The DNC didn't screw Bernie over. His campaign got caught cheating and was punished accordingly. That's completely different from the director of the FBI inserting himself into the election in order to save his own skin, and you know it.

 

[Melkezadek]

Same here. But no thanks.

Bernie supporters got shouted down here on GAF so bad, and then most refuse to see the obvious truth to why she lost.

Even if all of that were true (I never got shouted down as a Bernie supporter. I suspect it probably had to do with conduct) why is that at the forefront of your mind?

The very real consequences to Hillary's loss on THE PEOPLE should be what we are discussing and care about. If you care about the issues Bernie stood for, that should be the priority. Not a GAFer who hurt your feeling in the primary.

 

[tedrotheredro]

Would Comey have been a problem if Clinton didn't have a private email server?

Considering they were digging like hell through the Clinton Foundation....yes.

 

[StormKing]

Why did Clinton make Debbie Wasserman Schultz her honorary campaign chair if she wanted Bernie supporters to vote for her?

 

[broncobuster]

Would Comey have been a problem if Clinton didn't have a private email server?

Yes. There is a reason other scandals waited till the after voting.

 

[Iorv3th]

Maybe I'm missing some other significant event in the election that happened between October 26th and November 8th. Can you point it out to me?

So that means the undecided voters that voted for hillary were also swayed by comey to vote for her then? Your attributing all the undecided votes for trump over this one issue. It is very disingenuous to claim that all undecided voters used this as a factor to push them over the edge to vote trump.

 

[Blader]

I see that L is still too hot to hold. He was the better candidate. PERIOD. But Identity Politics and platitudes and "sexism" mixed with establishment meddling buried him.

Are you seriously comparing Bernie supporters to White Supremecists?

Hmm.

So that means the undecided voters that voted for hillary were also swayed by comey to vote for her then? Your attributing all the undecided votes for trump over this one issue. It is very disingenuous to claim that all undecided voters used this as a factor to push them over the edge to vote trump.

Undecided voters who may have been leaning in Hillary's direction could've just been convinced to stay home. Or didn't care enough in the first place.

 

[EatinOlives]

Jeezus people, what do you think is more important for the country to analyze in depth: the fact that a politician ran a crummy campaign or that the FBI directly involved itself in the political process? Why are people so willing to dismiss the most glaringly fucked up election with unfair influences FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC INSTITUTIONS? No let's bitch at Hill because she didn't go to more flyover towns.

She lost for a lot of reasons and some of them are fucking frightening.

Agreed 100%. And let me quote this repeatedly for people who simply aren't getting it:

What do you think is more important for the country to analyze in depth: the fact that a politician ran a crummy campaign or that the FBI directly involved itself in the political process?

At some point, you all should put aside your personal feelings for Bernie/Hillary and realize that there's something a lot bigger here than simply one election. Nobody's making excuses for Hillary neglecting what ended up being important states, so y'all should stop making excuses for ignoring the FBI directly involving itself in the election.

 

[NHarmonic.]

I doubt anyone will address Comey specifically. The new gaf pattern is to defer the conversation to Clinton's flaws, or Bernie shoulda won, or bad sportsmanship, but just to be super clear:

The director of the FBI releasing a vague public statement he knew would be damaging to a candidate, and also knew was hot air, the week before the election is utterly bizarre.

Pretty accurate post. It's undebiable that all the shitfest with the FBI fucked the election, adding to the campaign or candidates flaws (if there actually were).

 

[legacyzero]

I mean, he lost legitimately. By a lot.

Who cares? It's in the past... His candidacy is over and now we have to pick up the pieces. This in-party bickering isn't helping anything.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned her position after the Primary for meddling in the Primary.

"Legitimately"

 

[dolabla]

She was a shit candidate. What's so hard to come to that conclusion?

Those last few weeks of the election were atrocious. I'm not sure I heard one policy on the economy, etc.

 

[Maxim726X]

Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned her position after the Primary for meddling in the Primary.

"Legitimately"

Yeah, I know. She did some shady shit and got removed.

So... He still lost the primary by millions of votes.

Honestly, you're acting like a child. There was no grand conspiracy here that snatched victory from Bernie's hands- He lost the south on Super Tuesday and could never recover. No conspiracy theory needed.

 

[EatinOlives]

She was a shit candidate. What's so hard to come to that conclusion?

Those last few weeks of the election were atrocious. I'm not sure I heard one policy on the economy, etc.

Why is it so hard to even consider the ramifications of the FBI meddling in a presidential election? Take Hillary out of the equation, it's still an extremely worrying event that could repeat itself in the future.

 

[Wilsongt]

Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned her position after the Primary for meddling in the Primary.

"Legitimately"

Let's not forget Donna Brazile leaking a primary question about Flint, MI to Hillary while she was about to do a primary debate in fucking Flint, Mi.

 

[Blader]

She was a shit candidate. What's so hard to come to that conclusion?

Those last few weeks of the election were atrocious. I'm not sure I heard one policy on the economy, etc.

Hillary gave a number of policy speeches, but news networks never carried them and preferred real-time coverage of Trump's plane sitting on the tarmac or an empty podium that Trump would be speaking from.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Jeezus people, what do you think is more important for the country to analyze in depth: the fact that a politician ran a crummy campaign or that the FBI directly involved itself in the political process? Why are people so willing to dismiss the most glaringly fucked up election with unfair influences FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC INSTITUTIONS? No let's bitch at Hill because she didn't go to more flyover towns.

She lost for a lot of reasons and some of them are fucking frightening.

We shouldn't also overlook when talking about this just how terrible Bill having a secret meeting with Lynch in the airport was and how it completely triggered the FBI who was silent about the situation before that. Doesn't excuse Comey's corrupt fuckery but it is a factor that put him in an unprecedented situation that gets overlooked here.

 

[Cipherr]

I doubt anyone will address Comey specifically. The new gaf pattern is to defer the conversation to Clinton's flaws, or Bernie shoulda won, or bad sportsmanship, but just to be super clear:

The director of the FBI releasing a vague public statement he knew would be damaging to a candidate, and also knew was hot air, the week before the election is utterly bizarre.

Agreed 100%. And let me quote this repeatedly for people who simply aren't getting it:



At some point, you all should put aside your personal feelings for Bernie/Hillary and realize that there's something a lot bigger here than simply one election. Nobody's making excuses for Hillary neglecting what ended up being important states, so y'all should stop making excuses for ignoring the FBI directly involving itself in the election.

These two posts sum up how I feel about this whole scenario. Real disgusting things are coming to light, and we are being blocked from discussing them because some folks still can't get over the outcome of the primaries. I couldn't care less about your feelings being hurt by some Gaffer back in May when today we are discussing the FBI directly influencing a U.S. election. There's something a little more important than your hurt feelings going on here.

 

[Wilsongt]

Hillary gave a number of policy speeches, but news networks never carried them and preferred real-time coverage of Trump's plane sitting on the tarmac or an empty podium that Trump would be speaking from.

Let's not forget the bait and switch free hour of publicity for a Trump hotel only for him to spend 20 seconds on the issue he media was more concerned with.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Would Comey have been a problem if Clinton didn't have a private email server?

If the email server hadn't been uncovered in the process of the Benghazi investigation, we'd have never stopped hearing about Benghazi.

At some point, "but I don't like Hillary!" has to stop being your response to all matters regarding American sovereignty and the integrity of its electoral process.

 

[Oni Jazar]

She was a shit candidate. What's so hard to come to that conclusion?

Those last few weeks of the election were atrocious. I'm not sure I heard one policy on the economy, etc.

Yeah it's almost like someone had changed the narrative and put her on the defensive.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It is very disingenuous to claim that all undecided voters used this as a factor to push them over the edge to vote trump.

I'm not claiming this at all, but your lack of a better explanation or general point about what happened in the last 11 days to swing those 3 states to Trump is also unconvincing.

The evidence is that a statistically significant number of swing voters were swayed by Comey's statements. Even if you think the polling numbers were off by 6 percentage points. 3 critical states were swung by less than 50k votes each. That's easily within the margins that could be affected by Comey's interference.

 

[Totakeke]

Would Comey have been a problem if Clinton didn't have a private email server?

"Would the woman have been raped if she was not attractive?" Is what I think when I hear this kind of statements. What Comey did should be treated independently of who the other party is.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Terrible attitude to take. This just fosters complacency and blocks much needed changes from within.

 

[sdornan]

Stop talking about Bernie vs. Hillary. I was a Bernie supporter, but he lost the primary. What is going on now with Russia is a much larger deal than the Dem primary. Fight for your country, not a candidate.