sixteen-bit
Member
lol french swordfish NPC?
also, punching bag from Galaxy Fight and Waku Waku 7 spotted
also, punching bag from Galaxy Fight and Waku Waku 7 spotted
Skullgirls- New Characters, Painwheel and Valentine, Announced [Full Roster Revealed]
- Thread starter El Sloth
- Start date
sixteen-bit
Member
Sadako (Ringu)/S-ko (Guilty Gear) and ABA (Guilty Gear) in this pic:
HotGarbage
Member
Wahahaha that move is amazing. Also Valentine looks pretty great.
DiscoShark
Banned
Clear!
Credits to Mr.X of SRK for compiling these links and Crocodile for earlier translation
Credits to Mr.X of SRK for compiling these links and Crocodile for earlier translation
SolarPowered
Member
More shots of Valentine at work:
She is such a pretty character to look at with all those hit confirm sparks and the blood coming off her bonesaw haha. Also, I noticed how similar her aerial kick is to Ibuki's move in Street Fighter. LOL @ the little hammer that doctors use on people's knees for reflex tests.
Fake edit: The stages also look sooooo good now. The background characters add a TON to the atmosphere for sure.
She is such a pretty character to look at with all those hit confirm sparks and the blood coming off her bonesaw haha. Also, I noticed how similar her aerial kick is to Ibuki's move in Street Fighter. LOL @ the little hammer that doctors use on people's knees for reflex tests.
Fake edit: The stages also look sooooo good now. The background characters add a TON to the atmosphere for sure.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I don't have a problem with Skullgirls' aesthetic choices, but their defense against sexism complaints is a bit weak
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...complaints-are-misplaced-and-shallow-chivalry
Some real circular talking there. I especially liked "well the eeeevil characters are the most sexual ones"
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...complaints-are-misplaced-and-shallow-chivalry
Some real circular talking there. I especially liked "well the eeeevil characters are the most sexual ones"
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I do think it's ironic when the only people complaining about sexualization/objectification are males. It was even mentioned last page that one of the character designers(?) is female.
So far I'm just seeing blatant arbitrary reasoning sprinkled with a spattering of "sexualization" and "objectification" without proper context/reasoning.
I propose that a new thread be created for this type of discussion just so this thread can be filtered out. It's really a shame to have to sift through the thread just to find something about the actual game.
On the subject of the actual game it looks like it's coming a long fairly well. I've been sitting on the fence about whether I'll be getting it or not but I'm leaning towards a yes. Having a good fighting game on PC would be pretty good for me, maybe if Skullgirls does well there it might incentivize other publishers to put fighting games on the PC as well.
So far I'm just seeing blatant arbitrary reasoning sprinkled with a spattering of "sexualization" and "objectification" without proper context/reasoning.
I propose that a new thread be created for this type of discussion just so this thread can be filtered out. It's really a shame to have to sift through the thread just to find something about the actual game.
On the subject of the actual game it looks like it's coming a long fairly well. I've been sitting on the fence about whether I'll be getting it or not but I'm leaning towards a yes. Having a good fighting game on PC would be pretty good for me, maybe if Skullgirls does well there it might incentivize other publishers to put fighting games on the PC as well.
HotGarbage
Member
This sounds like a good idea. The subject has always popped up from time to time (Soulcalibur threads for instance) but I've not seen a thread dedicated to discussing the issue/getting it out of GAF's collective system.
I just think its irritating how whenever you complain about the art style the response is "our lead artist is a woman!" because it's not about that.
Skullgirls is an awesome game, simple as that, but people judge a book by its cover. The issue here is people passing off an otherwise great game as nothing more than gimmicky fanservice. To me thats a shame because there is so much that is right about the game and I want to see it succeed in the competitive circuit and not just become some "hee hee look what I got" game for 14 year olds to show their friends.
I think KOFXIII is a good example of having some cheesecake but having an otherwise balanced roster. Mai's pendulum tits are obvious fanservice, but the entire game isnt like that so I feel it's easier for people to take the game seriously as a competitive title.
People probably think this is BS but look at games like Arcana Heart 3. Sure there is a fan base for it and there is a lot of talk of it being a great game, but I know a ton of people who just point and laugh because of all the over the top fanservice and wont touch it with a 10 ft pole.
Anyway, I am not trying to bitch up a storm here, I just hate how if you have any criticism of the art style you're immediately belittled and your thoughts are passed off as "shallow chivalry."
Skullgirls is an awesome game, simple as that, but people judge a book by its cover. The issue here is people passing off an otherwise great game as nothing more than gimmicky fanservice. To me thats a shame because there is so much that is right about the game and I want to see it succeed in the competitive circuit and not just become some "hee hee look what I got" game for 14 year olds to show their friends.
I think KOFXIII is a good example of having some cheesecake but having an otherwise balanced roster. Mai's pendulum tits are obvious fanservice, but the entire game isnt like that so I feel it's easier for people to take the game seriously as a competitive title.
People probably think this is BS but look at games like Arcana Heart 3. Sure there is a fan base for it and there is a lot of talk of it being a great game, but I know a ton of people who just point and laugh because of all the over the top fanservice and wont touch it with a 10 ft pole.
Anyway, I am not trying to bitch up a storm here, I just hate how if you have any criticism of the art style you're immediately belittled and your thoughts are passed off as "shallow chivalry."
sixteen-bit
Member
haunts telling it like it is.
I dunno what getting all worked up about the art style is supposed to accomplish at this stage, anyway. Don't like it? Don't play it. I don't really care for MK's art style, and it plays a big part in why I can't get into that game. It's "unfair," but aesthetics ARE a big part of these games. You can complain about it or you can get on with your life. I'd look like a mighty big prick if I made a point of trying to derail every MK thread into a discussion of how unpleasant and gross it looks, right?
If y'all really want to have the discussion about the blurry lines between "sexy" and "exploitative," hey, go for it. Just try not to have it out in every thread about Skullgirls on every site.
For what it's worth, their lead animator seems annoyed at that line of defense, too.
If y'all really want to have the discussion about the blurry lines between "sexy" and "exploitative," hey, go for it. Just try not to have it out in every thread about Skullgirls on every site.
For what it's worth, their lead animator seems annoyed at that line of defense, too.
I love you!
darkblade77
Member
I agree that the defense of Skullgirls in that article was pretty empty. I'd rather they had just said "yeah, even if we don't think it's a big deal there is stuff widely considered to be cheesecake in there, deal with it".
Most of the time the artstyle has been complained about in NeoGAF it has come from people who are seriously thinking about the game and honestly want to see it do well, like Criminal Upper and haunts right there.
But IMO there's no real solution to be made here, and that's what I think frustrates people more than anything else. The designs are already part of character identity--have been for a while--and the majority of the cast at launch is finalized now. The topic as it relates to Skullgirls is pretty much a dead end, unless it's about what they decide to send out as DLC or what may go into Skullgirls II. And to people who have been following this game for some time now, they've known what the immediate cast will(probably) look like for at least half a year or more. It just comes off as beating a very dead horse.
And above everything else, the point that this aspect of VG "female sexualization" is not unique to Skullgirls at all is the most salient. It really needs to be its own topic.
Most of the time the artstyle has been complained about in NeoGAF it has come from people who are seriously thinking about the game and honestly want to see it do well, like Criminal Upper and haunts right there.
But IMO there's no real solution to be made here, and that's what I think frustrates people more than anything else. The designs are already part of character identity--have been for a while--and the majority of the cast at launch is finalized now. The topic as it relates to Skullgirls is pretty much a dead end, unless it's about what they decide to send out as DLC or what may go into Skullgirls II. And to people who have been following this game for some time now, they've known what the immediate cast will(probably) look like for at least half a year or more. It just comes off as beating a very dead horse.
And above everything else, the point that this aspect of VG "female sexualization" is not unique to Skullgirls at all is the most salient. It really needs to be its own topic.
How do you guys feel about other developers taking this route of releasing more old school true 2D fighters on XBLA/PSN? I personally would love to see Capcom release a brand new IP with maybe a smaller roster than say SF4 or Marvel but has the look and feel that is closer to 3s and CVS2.
If Skullgirls does well I think that kind of thing could become a reality. Seems like the big devs are a little hesitant about dumping a bunch of resources into creating sprites when so much is riding on big disc-based releases.
If Skullgirls does well I think that kind of thing could become a reality. Seems like the big devs are a little hesitant about dumping a bunch of resources into creating sprites when so much is riding on big disc-based releases.
NinajHeartless
Member
I would love this.
More new IPs and variety in the fighter genre is always welcome. Also XBLA and PSN releases mean consumers don't need to spend $60 to try out these new ideas and IPs which is awesome for cheap bastards like me!
SolarPowered
Member
Original fighting game projects and old school games through PSN/XBL from big pubs/devs? I'll pony up the cash every time if they offer it.
I know the old school games are an easy lock, but I have no idea if Capcom has it in them to put out original content in this genre anymore. I certainly don't see them doing original 2D work, but I have no problem with them making small 2.5D fighters with tons of features and reasonably priced DLC characters.
I think SNK could REALLY shine here too. I'd love to see them make a full fledge HD fighter with a smaller cast(shoot, they could totally make a smaller KOF with nice big sprites) and tons of extra features like online training mode, uploads and all the bells and whistles.
Seems like a good way to test the waters for extra modes and new IPs for sure.
Poorfate got it right just now.
It does come off as annoying if that is the only thing that people can contribute to the thread. Some folks like Criminal upper, haunts and others make it a point to offer something besides that which is much better. Being one dimensional in such a small thread with a game that needs breathing room just leads to people getting pissed off.
The last time I'll talk about this subject.
I don't think it'll make much traction against the 3 big points:
1) Doing 2D sprite animation, especially the old-style seen in KOF, etc. is a ton of work and takes a lot of money/time/manpower to do it right. Especially when you're doing it in HD resolutions. Heck, KOF12 & 13's art was clearly started when we were still using 480i as a standard, and look how long it took them!
2) Games with 3D animation on a 2D plane, like the Children Of Battle Fantasia (SF4 & Marvel 3), can be made by the skilled 3D art & animation teams already employed by the developers, using familiar tools and practices.
3) The big devs like Capcom & SNK are explicitly relying on their catalogue of existing characters & series. New IPs are always considered risky, and a new IP in a niche, flooded genre requiring skillsets they may have to hire a whole new team for? That's a heck of a lot of risk for a company that loves to play it safe, like Capcom, and let's not get started on SNK and its pachislot cash.
I love this idea. It would be really cool they decided to make these little cheap fighters to try out some experimental stuff that they think would be too risky to put in a typical Street Fighter game.
I wonder if Ono is watching how well this game does so as to pitch the new Darkstalkers he wants as a downloadable game to remove some of the risk from gambling on a new one.
Karsticles
Member
I would rather Capcom keep releasing expansions for MvC3. I love huge, huge rosters.
If Capcom is going to any new fighting games, and that game is going to be 2D, it better be Darkstalkers 4. That games does not belong in 3D.
Personally, I think it'd be the perfect way for a KoF XIII-style CVS (SVC?) game to be made. Start off with the core characters, grow the game over time, and hit that massive roster in the end. Get rid of stupid game-changing glitches as the game grows, tighten up failed ISMs or Grooves or whatever, and maybe even bring the systems of you other fighters in, with character from those games, as the game grows.
I've wished SNKP would make the Online "arcades" their new home for years, and they've tried, but mostly with refreshed older products. I'd have loved to see them start off with simple, inexpensive stuff (like maybe a 5 dolllar HD version of Cyberlip or something, lol), and then build money/resources for the definitive experiences (Metal Slug Z HD, GAROU 2!)
I kinda like and dislike the fact that digital games will probably be much bigger going into future console generations, though. One one hand, I like the fact that the download platform could be just as viable as disk-based releases.
On the other hand, I like the "convenience" of my digital games. I like the fact they're arcadey, and more about replays of quality content, rather than huge time-sinks with lots of repetative elements added in for passing.
Whichever way it goes, however, I think SG's is the first of a potential trend, maybe not brought on by itself, but by the shifting of the gaming marketplace. I do hope some of it's concepts and ideas have a real effect on the industry, as it could really help fighters ease into "the future" smoother, than stubbornly holding on to things like the traditional "Arcade -> Console" path, or the overall mishandling of DLC.
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In a way, I love the "Cheap" fighters of the past, and I wouldn't mind seeing them get a chance to return. Your Techromancers, Power Instincts, and Rage of Dragons, and Breakers of the world, lol.
Oh, SG's gets props for Tossing Bonus-Kun into a background, too!
My concern is what happens when the consoles stop being supported. This is a big reason why I'd want a PC release. Xbox1 already has been discontinued support-wise, you can play XBL with those games anymore. The 360 will follow in a few years, as will the PS3.
I do think for fighters to survive and grow, they need to get out of the arcades, which are dying and a decaying model.
I do think for fighters to survive and grow, they need to get out of the arcades, which are dying and a decaying model.
Metal Gear?!
Member
I think this is a good explanation of why the lead designer's defense is so weak:
http://www.themarysue.com/how-not-to-defend-cheesecake-in-a-video-game/
http://www.themarysue.com/how-not-to-defend-cheesecake-in-a-video-game/
You're making an all-female pretty girl moe fighter, just without a Japanese artist. You might as well own up to the fact that it's just as indefensible as Arcana Heart or whatever.
CountAntonius
Member
I think this is a much better fit for the genre then full retail discs. Small entry fee more time to balance the games and add long time revenue with DLC characters/stages/etc.
oh and they can be on a 3d engine as well. I don't see Capcom ever going back to2d.
sixteen-bit
Member
No way, not from Capcom.
CountAntonius
Member
Why not? They did it for Megaman. I think they will see with each retail fighting game they release the sales numbers will get smaller and smaller. With as much work as they have put into their re-releases of SF2 and 3SOE I can see them just making one from scratch.
also was color editor ever in the works for this game?
as for all the talk about the games art yes it's banking partly on sexuality who cares. It focusing most on gameplay isn't that what this thread should be focusing on as well?
SolarPowered
Member
Name something new they've made for the genre in the last five years not involving Street Fighter and Mahvel.
I'd like to be proven wrong. I'd like to have a big old cauldron of crow put on my table, but I don't see it happening. SNK and ASW on the other hand...
Did you just quote the entire article?
jeez
Criminal Upper
Banned
The real main problem is not so much the art style, but making the cast all female. It's such a weird decision that will only hurt sales amongst the FGC, no matter how good it plays. It will always draw comparisons to Pretty Fighter/Arcana Heart, etc. That's the reality.
Like I've said countless times before, I'm still gonna support the game (in more ways than one) but I still wonder what the thought process was behind making a choice that will repel like, 90% of the community.
Like I've said countless times before, I'm still gonna support the game (in more ways than one) but I still wonder what the thought process was behind making a choice that will repel like, 90% of the community.
CountAntonius
Member
Well because those two games have sold very well. I don't think future big budget fighting titles will be as profitable for them. I'm being more hopeful than saying "yes it will happen" but smaller digitally distributed titles seem like the perfect fit for fighting games. If Capcom doesn't think so hopefully another company will(aside from Reverge) and they will be more likely to get my money.
Yeah I agree with this. Honestly I don't think all of this was thought up before this game started becoming watched as closely as it is now. From what I remember this was just a guys characters he's been dreaming up for years. It was his vision and his tastes, not some huge corporate company focus testing etc. He found the right partners and Skullgirl is happening. Not sure why people are giving them so much grief over it.
They have mentioned men will be in the game eventually, perhaps making some of these characters known soon with some official character art will bring in some of those stubborn gamers not attracted to an all girl game.
sixteen-bit
Member
There was that Sengoku Basara fighting game on PS2, but it was developed by Arc System Works. Capcom only published.
Criminal Upper
Banned
The decision was made years ago I believe, when it was a dojin 3rd-rate Guilty Gear clone. The Skullgirls concept was around before 2003. I remember playing a beta of the game way back when.
sixteen-bit
Member
That was more than 5 years ago and thus disqualified from SolarPowered's criteria.
Buying the game day one and might even double dip, but I completely agree.
Nope, nothing really I can disagree with here. Though as has been kind of touched upon already, I think frustration comes from the fact that it's beating a horse that's been hit with an atomic bomb at this point; it accomplishes nothing. Not to mention the discussion can't/shouldn't change anything about the game, the game does nothing that is outside the range of variation seen in tons of other games and, most importantly, has nothing to do with how good the game might/will be.
Personally, I find the aesthetics kind of silly/wacky/funny/cartoony with a touch of horror rather than titillating. I have no idea how common a viewpoint this is though.
I think this is awesome and would support this trend. I do feel a bit pessimistic regarding Capcom specifically following this path. I can't remember when exactly it was but I remember watching an interview with Ono over the Capcom stream at an event a while back and someone on the stream chat asked him about new fighting game IPs. Ono's response basically boiled down to "LULZ"
I'm pretty sure it comes about because the creative directive for the game doesn't come from a committee trying to figure out how to sell the most copies of a game (not saying that's a bad thing) but rather as the mostly singular vision of one artist. I'm pretty sure "I better put in at least one teleporting asshole with shades in my game or it won't sell" never crossed his mind at any point.
EDIT: On a different note, I've seen some people think I meant Valentine uses the KO'd bodies of the players with her cadaver based attacks. That may be true, unlikely given the cadavers are male, but nothing in the article actually says that and it wasn't what I meant by my translation. I'm assuming the actual source is "hammerspace" but the way its worded says she picks'em, off the ground. Also, WOW I'm on Iplaywinner.com & SRK! *bow*
SOOO much. Somehow, this makes me think abotu how fun it'd be to have a Cardfighters Clash Online game... I'd be the first in line to play a KoF RPG too, but anywho...
It really doesn't matter much though. That's what re-releases are for!
But really, I think DLC games will be better-respected going to next gen, than what happened last gen. The systems will still be around for years, too, and by the time they phase out, the next iteration will possibly be out.
Actually, Capcom was very "DLC games HO!" at the beginning of this gen. I could see them taking onto DLC-izing their fighters, if the money proved to be there. If not the JP arm, then at least some experiments from the USA side.
I think they're more likely to do it than, say, ASW or Namco Bandai. They have much more invested into the DLC space, when it comes to original game content.
darkblade77
Member
So good.
And I would mark out for a 2D KOF RPG like you don't even know. I heard they made something like that for the PSX? Obviously it probably never came down here but anyway.
SolarPowered
Member
That would actually be a nice change of pace.
Filia- Main character of the story. Extremely rushdown centric character reminiscent of the classic MvC style that persists to this day, fights by making all kinds of tools provided to her by a Parasite that looks like hair. These tools weapons to vehicles and even animals like an octopus. A total keeper and certainly more unique than a hobo in a Gi(Even though I love that Hobo! <3).
Cerebella- Probably one of the best grapplers made alongside Potemkin and Vanilla MvC3 She Hulk. Double jumps, small air dash, ACTUAL COMBOS, long range hypers for DHC purposes, fights using two gigantic arms that are separate entity(screams Guilty Gear) and is the daughter of the Mafia that keeps fucking over everyone(Ms. Fortune, Squigly, probably Parasoul's family) and has a large role in the innerworkings of the kingdom.
Peacock- Arguably the most unique character of the bunch. Reminiscent of Darkstalkers characters in her tough past, inhuman body(Hello Hsien-Ko) and crazy zoning style that draws references from more games/movies/fighting gam charaters/old cartoons than most of us can count. Teleports, gigantic bombs, gangsta ass beatdowns(check her level 3), walking projectiles(classic bob-ombs lol!) and a penchant for killing anything that annoys her. Also central to the story as a military experiment that was designed to protect the kingdom from the Skullgirl.
Parasoul- Princess of the kingdom, leader of a private elite military force and one of the most traditional fighting game characters in the game aside from maybe Filia. Classic zoner with good pokes, strong midrange zoning, projectile based gameplay, shorthops, no air dashes, BB Hood inspired level 3, roman cancel soldiers(Guilty Gear here), sniper calls from behind the scenes, crazy bodyguard soldiers who'd take bullets/lasers for her and soldiers who grab you and drag you across the stage on a motorcycle. Pretty bitchin' character.
Ms. Fortune- Thief who lost her friends and got cut to pieces by the mafia over a stolen jewel that gives an undying body. She can rip her limbs off at will, she tosses her head on the stage and uses it to nibble at you, smack your knees or even snaps you out of the stage by swinging it with her tail at you like a golfball. Terrible puns, Wolverine inspired rushdown, rekkas ahoy, Carl(blazblue) inspired left-right mixups utilizing her head and headless body.
Painwheel- Another experiment meant to take down the Skullgirl. The mind of a girl and the body of a monster. Crazy metal rock inspired moveset and hypers that would make most people hurt by just looking at her perform them. She has a flight mode, multi hitting super armored normals/specials that absorb damage and toss it back even harder, an aerial level 3 and a creepy spider crawler level 1.
Valentine- The first villain of the bunch who uses a crazy amount of tools at her disposal including a bone saw, needles that effect move recovery(and many other crazy things not yet revealed) and an assortment of medical tools(can't identify everything yet). The first ninja styled character in the game an absolute poking monster that uses corpses for tools.
Who would you take out for some shoehorned guy?
I had a bit of fun writing this so don't take it as me being aggressive haha.
I'd like to see something developed by one of Capcom's studios preferably. May have to search up on this game later just to see it in action though. ^^
Damn, you've been around for a while haha.
I'm pretty sure that is Squigly and it does explain why she needs more time/tech in order to be fleshed out properly.
They were DLC ho!, but it didn't translate to much outside of Street Fighter related projects in the fighting game genre. That Darkstalkers 1 release makes me wonder just a tiny bit though....
Oh, and regarding the bit about Namco/ASW... you are probably right about Namco. ASW seems to be a little more forward thinking and they did manage to actually make a new successful IP with BlazBlue. Out of the three... I'd say Capcom would be more likely to make a move in the DLC realm with ASW following right behind them.
Urban Scholar
Member
I don't know if I'm the only one but I like to read the character info about the fighters as they release. Valentine sounds crazy and she looks like it...kudos!
On the terms of art, I often imagine that is goes hand in hand with the world envisioned. Skull Girls as is ok in my book.
Right now I think the more exposure this game gets good or bad is a positive. More people will be willingly to see what's it's about. Built up hype must be built.
On the terms of art, I often imagine that is goes hand in hand with the world envisioned. Skull Girls as is ok in my book.
Right now I think the more exposure this game gets good or bad is a positive. More people will be willingly to see what's it's about. Built up hype must be built.
CountAntonius
Member
That's awesome thanks for that write up. Definitely liking Parasoul and Valentine gameplay wise. Did I read somewhere parasoul is a charge character?
Criminal Upper
Banned
Thanks for that recap! I've read about the characters and watched videos too! But thanks for the help! You're a super helpful guy.
But yeah, I never said "shoe-horn" anyone into ANYTHING and I don't know why finished characters need to be taken out to do that. I certainly never said that either.
Way to stuff words into people's mouths that they never said.
Pretty sure he's just playin' with ya dude.
CountAntonius
Member
Oh god the knee!
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Jesus, that picture of the knee fucked up my train of thought. lol. I feel bad for anyone getting hit with that.
I would hope that this does well enough to spark some interest in the more "traditional" sense, regarding fighters. I don't see Capcom taking the initiative in making a new fighting game IP. They have plenty that they don't work with as is.
I would hope that this does well enough to spark some interest in the more "traditional" sense, regarding fighters. I don't see Capcom taking the initiative in making a new fighting game IP. They have plenty that they don't work with as is.
SolarPowered
Member
Man, the response to the artist being mentioned got so stupid that she actually spoke up a bit. People are really silly sometimes...
I also had no idea who the lead animator was(been wanting to ask), but I ran into her blog a few days ago and I LOVE some of her work(decided to replace my Steam avatar with one of her drawings). I can totally understand how the cast turned out now and I bet she probably had a hand in sexing Alex' characters up a bit to boot LOL!
Here is the SRK Skullgirls wiki for the curious.
heh...
no thanks!
I also had no idea who the lead animator was(been wanting to ask), but I ran into her blog a few days ago and I LOVE some of her work(decided to replace my Steam avatar with one of her drawings). I can totally understand how the cast turned out now and I bet she probably had a hand in sexing Alex' characters up a bit to boot LOL!
I'm totally not kidding here. I think this woman has a better eye for the imaginary curves than most of us do.
Yeah, she is a charge character.
Here is the SRK Skullgirls wiki for the curious.
Thanks for the compliment, but you gotta relax haha...
Shoot, I even complimented how he does us a favor by not being one dimensional in regards to the gender issue.
heh...
Sharp knees?
no thanks!
Jesus christ man.