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[balladofwindfishes]

I think the Ridley shadow was the tipping point into insanity for a lot of people.

I just don't understand how a subtitle "more bosses will appear!" after a segment on bosses, with a giant shadow of Ridley on Ridley's stage somehow meant that he was actually playable, and that he wasn't just teasing another boss... which is exactly what he said he was teasing. People wanted Ridley so badly they hyped up a misinterpreted announcement and then blamed Sakurai and his devilish ways when it turns out he was teasing pretty much exactly what Ridley's function was, a boss.

People liked to point to the ZSS fake out to "prove" that Ridley was playable, but there were significant differences. For starters, ZSS was announced 5 seconds after the fake out, so nobody was mislead for any real period of time. Further, he didn't even say "More Assist Trophies appear!" with a shadow of ZSS and then made ZSS playable. If he had done that, sure maybe Ridley was playable, but it wasn't like that at all.

You know what was super trolly about that Direct? Talking about breaking up transformation characters and then making me painfully wait until the end of the video for my boy Charizard. I was super worried he wouldn't be back when he wasn't shown with the other transformations.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I think the Ridley shadow was the tipping point into insanity for a lot of people.

I just don't understand how a subtitle "more bosses will appear!" after a segment on bosses, with a giant shadow of Ridley on Ridley's stage somehow meant that he was actually playable, and that he wasn't just teasing another boss... which is exactly what he said he was teasing. People wanted Ridley so badly they hyped up a misinterpreted announcement and then blamed Sakurai and his devilish ways when it turns out he was teasing pretty much exactly what Ridley's function was, a boss.

People liked to point to the ZSS fake out to "prove" that Ridley was playable, but there were significant differences. For starters, ZSS was announced 5 seconds after the fake out, so nobody was mislead for any real period of time. Further, he didn't even say "More Assist Trophies appear!" with a shadow of ZSS and then made ZSS playable. If he had done that, sure maybe Ridley was playable, but it wasn't like that at all.

People like to say "trolololo Sakurai"... but I've never really seen it. Sure he likes to tease and joke around, but I've never actually see him outright trick people for malicious purposes as some people like to pretend he does. Saying "Aww... ZSS is cut" and then 2 seconds later confirming her, or showing off a Mii hat of Metaknight and then Metaknight himself the next day, those are more like Sakurai. It's not really mean spirited or even "trolly" it's just joking around and teasing fans and then immediately letting them in on the "joke" before they it gets to the point of people feeling angry.

...and stuff like showing off Ridley's shadow during the part specifically dedicated to Boss characters apparently confirming Ridley as playable being a troll move... is just people with unrealistic expectations warping a fairly obvious piece of the trailer into something it never was and was never meant to be. And that's generally what I think most people consider as Sakurai "trolling."

People misinterpreted an innocent bit of news, or going all crazy and over analyzing every little detail. They've gotten themselves into a loop where they think Sakurai is some mustache twirling troll and so every innocent announcement must have an angle and then when it doesn't it reaffirms to them that Sakurai is some kind of crazy person who messes with everyone for laughs... when it's just not like that at all.

Thank you.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I mean, I think we all kinda go along with Sakurai the Trollmaster in a joking way. But the people who thing he does shit just to anger people are actually crazy.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKrXu85tgQA

 

[Boss Doggie]

I think the Ridley shadow was the tipping point into insanity for a lot of people.

I just don't understand how a subtitle "more bosses will appear!" after a segment on bosses, with a giant shadow of Ridley on Ridley's stage somehow meant that he was actually playable, and that he wasn't just teasing another boss... which is exactly what he said he was teasing. People wanted Ridley so badly they hyped up a misinterpreted announcement and then blamed Sakurai and his devilish ways when it turns out he was teasing pretty much exactly what Ridley's function was, a boss.

People liked to point to the ZSS fake out to "prove" that Ridley was playable, but there were significant differences. For starters, ZSS was announced 5 seconds after the fake out, so nobody was mislead for any real period of time. Further, he didn't even say "More Assist Trophies appear!" with a shadow of ZSS and then made ZSS playable. If he had done that, sure maybe Ridley was playable, but it wasn't like that at all.

You know what was super trolly about that Direct? Talking about breaking up transformation characters and then making me painfully wait until the end of the video for my boy Charizard. I was super worried he wouldn't be back when he wasn't shown with the other transformations.

Yeah, he was very obvious on that fact that Ridley was going to be a boss, but many, many people did mental gymnastics to twist that fact.

 

[Red Arremer]

In retrospect, yes, it was a bit silly to think that the Direct footage of Ridley's shadow was an indication of him to be playable.

But you have to understand. I've been wanting Ridley for well over 10 years now. I've wanted him in Melee, Brawl and now Smash 4. And honestly, it wasn't that much of "mental gymnastics" to think that the tease might've been hinting at a playable.

Again, here was the arguments I'd made:
- For a boss character, he was too idle, plus he had what looked like a grab animation.
- Sakurai had been avoiding mentioning Ridley by name, and has been dropping various ambiguous hints in his daily pics.
- The trophy theory (while in the end being incorrect) had some merit.

I never deluded myself that all of this circumstantial evidence was proof that Ridley was going to be playable, but that he was likely to become playable. And given the interviews we've learned about, it seems that Ridley was at the very least planned for this game's roster, but didn't work out in a satisfactory manner. Who knows, the shadow we saw in that Direct might've been a prototype for the playable Ridley?

So in conclusion, I've come to accept that Ridley will never be playable in Smash Bros. His time was now, he did not make it, and it's very unlikely Sakurai will change his mind, even if Ridley ends up being the most requested character

Spoiler

(lol as if Metroid is ever gonna have that much support)

.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I forgot about the Trophy theory.

That and the Ridley shadow one were just rough.

 

[Kouichi]

The trophy theory hurt my soul.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Yeah the trophy theory was really painting the target red.

 

[BatDan]

The trophy theory hurt my soul.

I didn't see that one. What's the trophy theory?

 

[MrSaturn99]

I didn't see that one. What's the trophy theory?

this

 

[Fandangox]

this

At least give them a bigger image lol

 

[MrSaturn99]

At least give them a bigger image lol

It was the first one that popped up on Google.

and it doesn't deserve to be bigger any dang way

 

[BGBW]

The trophy picture technically works if you take the Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS splits as new characters (though numbering in past games counted these as separate characters).

Some people honestly took it personally as if Sakurai was out to torment Ridley fans personally despite there being loads of information we half knew not being shown for ages.

 

[Fandangox]

It was the first one that popped up on Google.

and it doesn't deserve to be bigger any dang way

It was a dumb theory, but whoever was curious about it won't be able to read it with that.

 

[BatDan]

At least give them a bigger image lol

Wow, that's pretty awful.
The only ones they even got right were Lucina and Palutena, and a lot of people predicted the latter since Sakurai loves to use his characters. And people figured Chrom would be in over Lucina, not expecting Robin.

I thought it was obvious from the get-go that Ridley was going to be a boss character. Since they showed his shadow RIGHT AFTER talking about the Yellow Devil. I guess some people just can't be reasoned with.

 

[BGBW]

I thought it was obvious from the get-go that Ridley was going to be a boss character. Since they showed his shadow RIGHT AFTER talking about the Yellow Devil. I guess some people just can't be reasoned with.

That and the PotD where he basically out right said Ridley would make an appearance.

 

[Red Arremer]

Do we really need to beat further on a dead horse?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

okay, I wasn't even a ridleyperson, but I did find the whole situation with him at least a little trolly

I mean, it was very kinda odd, the way they didn't just show ridley being a boss. Like, just fucking show him. If teasing him as a boss all that time was supposed to be a good time for his fans, then I don't understand

Just maybe don't rub the salt in the wounds for Ridley fans. I know if it were my favorite character and the same thing happened, especially given the nature surrounding ridley and stuff, I would have probably gone a little crazy too

But freaking out when he was not playable is pretty silly. As it is whenever we get the final roster and people start throwing tantrums

 

[Fandangox]

okay, I wasn't even a ridleyperson, but I did find the whole situation with him at least a little trolly

I mean, it was very kinda odd, the way they didn't just show ridley being a boss. Like, just fucking show him. If teasing him as a boss all that time was supposed to be a good time for his fans, then I don't understand

Just maybe don't rub the salt in the wounds for Ridley fans. I know if it were my favorite character and the same thing happened, especially given the nature surrounding ridley and stuff, I would have probably gone a little crazy too

But freaking out when he was not playable is pretty silly. As it is whenever we get the final roster and people start throwing tantrums

Shockingalberto said it best but I think its pretty much that he was just doing a smash version of this:

 

[BatDan]

Shockingalberto said it best but I think its pretty much that he was just doing a smash version of this:

IT'S PIKACHU!

 

[Fandangox]

IT'S PIKACHU!

One of my personal favorites, the offscreen capture makes it all better.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Shockingalberto said it best but I think its pretty much that he was just doing a smash version of this:

Well I'm sure that's what he thought he was doing. I'm not saying he was going "mwahahaha, let's make those ridley fans squirm"

But come on dude, you have to know that playing "who's that smash character" first of all in a series like smash where everyone takes their characters so seriously, and then a fanbase like ridley's who has had a rough go of things is kinda suspect

Like, go ahead and play guess the boss, but do it with someone else. Not Ridley though.

 

[Fandangox]

Well I'm sure that's what he thought he was doing. I'm not saying he was going "mwahahaha, let's make those ridley fans squirm"

But come on dude, you have to know that playing "who's that smash character" first of all in a series like smash where everyone takes their characters so seriously, and then a fanbase like ridley's who has had a rough go of things is kinda suspect

Like, go ahead and play guess the boss, but do it with someone else. Not Ridley though.

I mean the context of the tease pretty much made it obvious he was talking about a boss, plus he did it with someone else too, Metal Face.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I mean the context of the tease pretty much made it obvious he was talking about a boss, plus he did it with someone else too, Metal Face.

Yeah, what I'm saying is maybe don't do that with Ridley. Sure, most people were able to go "oh okay ridley is a stage hazard" but people who are very invested in Ridley were not able to do that. When he teased Metal Face, there wasn't this huge fanbase of Metal Face fans who started hoping he'd be playable (though there were some people I remember thinking it was going to happen). Ridley is kinda different.

Like, I can sympathize. It's a joke that's funny to everyone except Ridley fans, and it seems like it doesn't need to be beaten into the ground anymore.

 

[BGBW]

Ridley fans have had a rough time? No more than fans of other characters. If anything they've had a better time consider he was in the Melee opening, multiple appearances in SSE and now a stage boss.

Meanwhile fans of say Panel de Pon have an item and a reference in Kirby's moveset and that's pretty good going all things considered. What do Wave Race fans have? A trophy. Wow.

it's a self written sob story. Ridley fans are not special.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I was watching a For Glory montage last night and Mewtwo was just thrown in there like any other character.

It still hasn't really settled with me yet that Mewtwo is just another character and not a huge massive future release just waiting to happen that everyone is hyped about. Mewtwo is just like everyone else, used like everyone else and is basically integrated into the game as if he was a normal character (except customs).

I think DLC characters are going to take some time to sink in for me before I stop getting excited just seeing them being used, like it's a huge deal, and I treat them like everyone else.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Ridley fans have had a rough time? No more than fans of other characters. If anything they've had a better time consider he was in the Melee opening, multiple appearances in SSE and now a stage boss.

Meanwhile fans of say Panel de Pon have an item and a reference in Kirby's moveset and that's pretty good going all things considered. What do Wave Race fans have? A trophy. Wow.

it's a self written sob story. Ridley fans are not special.

I don't think Wave Race and Panel de Pon are really comparable to Ridley, like at all. I

And having characters that you desperately want playable appear in side roles is not anything that great.

Ridley fans aren't "special" I guess, but the situation is particularly shitty. It's a character who, in theory would make a really amazing fighter and has the pedigree to be included, but it just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Green Mamba]

Making Ridley into an especially obnoxious stage hazard that you have to beat up to fight for you is a pretty misguided attempt at placating Ridley fans.

That said, no sympathy for Ridley fans who carried the torch after he was shown as a shadow in the direct.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Shockingalberto said it best but I think its pretty much that he was just doing a smash version of this:

That reminded me of shilouette arguments how we would be familiar of Daisy, Peach and Rosalina's shilouette and they had good chance became playable characters or something like that.

 

[MagnesD3]

Let's just end the Ridley talk as it painfully reminds me how much I don't like most of the newcomers...

 

[GiantBreadbug]

That reminded me of shilouette arguments how we would be familiar of Daisy, Peach and Rosalina's shilouette and they had good chance became playable characters or something like that.

I think that argument was used to say something like Rosalina shouldn't be playable because she was so similar to Peach.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Pyrosphere is the most broken stage in all of Smash Bros. and I love it for all the wrong reasons.

That Ridley stock icon still gets me.

 

[BGBW]

Let's just end the Ridley talk as it painfully reminds me how much I don't like most of the newcomers...

OK. Let's talk about Villager and Wii Fit Trainer instead...

Speaking of WFT, her announcement was the first bit of salt in regards to Smash 4. Geoff was well annoyed at E3. The series just seems to bring out that side to people.

 

[NeonZ]

I mean, it was very kinda odd, the way they didn't just show ridley being a boss. Like, just fucking show him. If teasing him as a boss all that time was supposed to be a good time for his fans, then I don't understand

Looking back, I wonder if the issue wasn't that Sakurai initially planned more bosses but ended up cutting them? The direct really made it seem like we'd get quite a few bosses in the final game, but what is there? Ridley, Yellow Devil and Metal Face, less bosses than Brawl. Two which had early reveals in that Direct, and another one who had been included in a character reveal video. It reminds me of how Metaknight ended up being the only one with a character specific theme in Brawl just because Sakurai actually said he'd get it early on while talking about character specific victory themes. He obviously dropped the idea, but kept Metaknight's since it had been revealed.

So, he couldn't really show Ridley because there wasn't much else to show aside from him, leaving him only to teasers until almost launch.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The only other boss we know was planned were the cut Doctor Mario stage, Viruses.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

OK. Let's talk about Villager and Wii Fit Trainer instead...

Speaking of WFT, her announcement was the first bit of salt in regards to Smash 4. Geoff was well annoyed at E3. The series just seems to bring out that side to people.

I remember how disappointed I was when Sakurai said in the Brawl Iwata Asks that he thought an AC character wasn't suited for fighting (and everyone went along with it despite that sentiment clearly being bullshit). Animal Crossing is one of my favorite series and I wanted a character from it so badly, but began to buy into the "never gonna happen cause sakurai said" stuff.

Then, as the camera zoomed in on that Animal Crossing village with the blinking mailbox... I think that might have been my biggest freak out ever watching a game trailer.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

The only other boss we know was planned were the cut Doctor Mario stage, Viruses.

This better be DLC. I've been wanting a proper Dr. Mario stage since Melee.

 

[MrSaturn99]

You could probably count the Flying Men and the Dark Emperor from the 3DS version.

 

[Red Arremer]

OK. Let's talk about Villager and Wii Fit Trainer instead...

Speaking of WFT, her announcement was the first bit of salt in regards to Smash 4. Geoff was well annoyed at E3. The series just seems to bring out that side to people.

I think that the early reveal of Wii Fit Trainer helped her in the long run, though. She's been slowly accepted into the fold as a newcomer, and I think that a lot of initial haters ended up liking her because she just fits the mold of a Smash character so well.
She's obviously a wacky choice, and utterly unexpected, but it's the good kind of wacky and unexpected. Most of the salt over her inclusion ebbed over the weeks after that E3 trailer of hers.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Let's just end the Ridley talk as it painfully reminds me how much I don't like most of the newcomers...

Heh, never change!

I think that argument was used to say something like Rosalina shouldn't be playable because she was so similar to Peach.

Oh yeah. That's right.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This better be DLC. I've been wanting a proper Dr. Mario stage since Melee.

There's certainly enough music in Smash 4 to work without even needing to make more music or rip from games.
Fever
Chill
Chill V2
Lip's Theme
Tetris Type A
Tetris Type B

And that's without even touching game rips. The NES version of Fever and maybe some Dr Luigi tracks would work just fine and you'd have a stage with a great selection of music.

 

[IntelliHeath]

So are we acting as if Roy and Ryu are 100% confirmed? I hate to be the boring voice of reason here, but they aren't yet. As interesting as those files are, they don't outright confirm anything. There's going to be a lot of disappointment around here if E3 comes to pass and neither one of them is revealed.

you know me, I don't.

I remember how disappointed I was when Sakurai said in the Brawl Iwata Asks that he thought an AC character wasn't suited for fighting (and everyone went along with it despite that sentiment clearly being bullshit). Animal Crossing is one of my favorite series and I wanted a character from it so badly, but began to buy into the "never gonna happen cause sakurai said" stuff.

Then, as the camera zoomed in on that Animal Crossing village with the blinking mailbox... I think that might have been my biggest freak out ever watching a game trailer.

Yeah, I was mind blown that Villager finally got in as playable character. I gave up on few characters because Sakurai said so. Boom, the opposite just happened.

I just made the gif last night

 

[Boss Doggie]

That reminded me of shilouette arguments how we would be familiar of Daisy, Peach and Rosalina's shilouette and they had good chance became playable characters or something like that.

I think that argument was used to say something like Rosalina shouldn't be playable because she was so similar to Peach.

Which is weird because when you look at the silhouettes, DAISY is closer to Peach in shape than Rosalina. Were people having poor eyesight there?

 

[BGBW]

I thought the problem with Animal Crossing was that Katsuya Eguchi felt it wasn't appropriate for the series to have a playable fighter. Of course I could be remembering things wrong.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I think people should also remember that devs change their minds over time.

 

[Star Falcon]

I was watching a For Glory montage last night and Mewtwo was just thrown in there like any other character.

It still hasn't really settled with me yet that Mewtwo is just another character and not a huge massive future release just waiting to happen that everyone is hyped about. Mewtwo is just like everyone else, used like everyone else and is basically integrated into the game as if he was a normal character (except customs).

I think DLC characters are going to take some time to sink in for me before I stop getting excited just seeing them being used, like it's a huge deal, and I treat them like everyone else.

Seamless integration is a good thing though, right? I was doing some single player stuff on the weekend gone for challenges like Smash Tour, All Star, Crazy Orders etc and Mewtwo is included in all those just like every other character. It's like he was there all along.

The lack of customs is a bit annoying though.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I thought the problem with Animal Crossing was that Katsuya Eguchi felt it wasn't appropriate for the series to have a playable fighter. Of course I could be remembering things wrong.

I think Eguchi was all for it, Sakurai just said no on the grounds that it was "out of place" or some such bullshit.

Cue (queue?) the image from the Iwata asks with Villager and a Nintendog.

What actually probably happened is he didn't have time, and then made up the "out of place" thing. See how he said one of the reasons Ice Climbers didn't return was because they weren't appearing in any new games. I know he also mentioned the 3DS, but he really could have just left it at that.

I think Sakurai just sometimes feels obligated to make something up about why a particular character wasn't included.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I knew Sakurai just had to change his mind about Villager for Smash 4 with how big and vital Animal Crossing had become. Not to mention, his moveset practically makes itself.

Needless to say, I walked away very pleased from the reveal when my two most wanted newcomers (Villager and Mega Man) were shown.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Seamless integration is a good thing though, right? I was doing some single player stuff on the weekend gone for challenges like Smash Tour, All Star, Crazy Orders etc and Mewtwo is included in all those just like every other character. It's like he was there all along.

The lack of customs is a bit annoying though.

Yea, just hasn't settled in with me that Mewtwo isn't a big deal anymore and is just a regular part of Smash.

Other than customs (and his bad CSS placement), they did a really good job integrating Mewtwo into the game.