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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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balladofwindfishes
Member
I find it funny that people who said "Villager can't be in, they're in the background!" during the Brawl days and felt validated because it ended up being true have now almost been made fools of because not only does Villager appear in Smash alongside Smashville, but other background characters appear playable as well (like Toon Link, and if Dreamland 64 gets in, then Dedede as well).
I mean, technically that's the clone from Other M, so...
stan423321
Member
When Inklings are in the play, the Inkling gear for Miis is replaced by Alfonzo instead.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I like how the inkling miis essentially came with an automatic "LONK" face already.
I propose we name the mii inklings "ONKLONGS" to honor this time old tradition.
RomanceDawn
Member
Don't forget Duck Hunt!
If this Smash has taught anyone anything it's that our(their) stupid rules and patterns don't apply.
When was the time between E3 2008 and November 2008 considered over a year long?
It wasn't formally revealed until much later, but Nintendo announced "Animal Crossing Wii" in 2006 (or maybe even 2005). We don't even know if a Wii U Animal Crossing exists.
... Oh yeah. The Dog can use itself as a platform. Canonically, Ridley fighting a larger Ridley makes a hell of a lot more sense.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Miis need to be allowed to be randomed in general. They never show up when using the random button, which seems pointless as they could just pick a random Mii.
dangeraaron10
Unconfirmed Member
Something tells me that we might see Ridley eventually. Call it a hunch, but Sakurai has at least once said a character wouldn't work, and then that character get in. Just look at Ryu, which Sakurai used as an example of how he doesn't like to pick characters from other fighting games, and now we have Ryu's music in the data. He knows that Ridley is popular and he might sit down and try to make something work for him if he hasn't already, and he knows damn well that he's popular and his inclusion would shock a lot of people, especially after most of them accepted the fact he's not getting in because of that interview.
I say that because I trust Sakurai as far as I can throw him, which is why he's so awesome.
In fact, if it wasn't for that interview explicitly saying Ridley can't work, I'd be flying the Ridley flag instead of K. Rool, but the other reptilian villain is a good compromise. I was waiting for NewGAF to accept my account at the time, but I was lurking back when Ridley hype and desire was at its height.
I say that because I trust Sakurai as far as I can throw him, which is why he's so awesome.
In fact, if it wasn't for that interview explicitly saying Ridley can't work, I'd be flying the Ridley flag instead of K. Rool, but the other reptilian villain is a good compromise. I was waiting for NewGAF to accept my account at the time, but I was lurking back when Ridley hype and desire was at its height.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Ridley, unlike Villager, Miis and Ryu, isn't not in Smash because Sakurai didn't feel he fit in Smash due to his character traits or genre. He's not in Smash because he literally cannot fit in Smash. He doesn't scale down well at all without looking ridiculous because his proportions are all over the place. They tried making it work, it didn't. Project M tried to make it work, it didn't.
Some dude made a mod where Ridley clips all over the place, has insane range, looks bad and basically cemented what Sakurai had been saying all along and people had been joking about for years (and yet people parrot that this mod is proof Ridley can work, when it does just the opposite).
Ridley is too big.
Maybe the next Metroid will release with a Ridley that can scale down well.
Ridley, by design of his character, would be great at recovery, have great range and be quick and powerful. His closest peer in Smash is probably Mewtwo or Charizard. Mewtwo because of his great recovery, great range, great power and decent air speed. And yet Mewtwo is light as a feather with a garbage excuse it's a result of his powers being at full strength for Smash or something. Charizard is silly in Smash. He's flying type and known to be a very good flier and has really garbage recovery in Smash, which he had to have because he also needed to be heavy and powerful. Unfortunately for Ridley, he needs to be heavy, quick, good at jumping, have good range and high power. Even as a medium weight, he'd be tricky to balance without it being weird (like if they had to limit how far his tail stretched to attack, it'd look weird). Can you imagine Ridley giving up his aerial movement so he could be powerful and have range? Or give up his power so he can have good air speed and recovery? And he really can't even give up his range because his limbs are so long, he'd have to artificially end his attacks mid way to not go to full range.
Some dude made a mod where Ridley clips all over the place, has insane range, looks bad and basically cemented what Sakurai had been saying all along and people had been joking about for years (and yet people parrot that this mod is proof Ridley can work, when it does just the opposite).
Ridley is too big.
Maybe the next Metroid will release with a Ridley that can scale down well.
Ridley, by design of his character, would be great at recovery, have great range and be quick and powerful. His closest peer in Smash is probably Mewtwo or Charizard. Mewtwo because of his great recovery, great range, great power and decent air speed. And yet Mewtwo is light as a feather with a garbage excuse it's a result of his powers being at full strength for Smash or something. Charizard is silly in Smash. He's flying type and known to be a very good flier and has really garbage recovery in Smash, which he had to have because he also needed to be heavy and powerful. Unfortunately for Ridley, he needs to be heavy, quick, good at jumping, have good range and high power. Even as a medium weight, he'd be tricky to balance without it being weird (like if they had to limit how far his tail stretched to attack, it'd look weird). Can you imagine Ridley giving up his aerial movement so he could be powerful and have range? Or give up his power so he can have good air speed and recovery? And he really can't even give up his range because his limbs are so long, he'd have to artificially end his attacks mid way to not go to full range.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
maybe they'll make a Ridtroid. Or a Metley.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Too bad vets don't get poster-like special art.
Because this would be amazing to see recreated in Smash 4 with Roy (and Mewtwo)
It's also kind of funny/cute Pichu is just hanging off Bowser's horn and he doesn't seem to mind at all.
Just replace Young Link with Toon Link and Ice Climbers with a crouched Sheik (only Melee character not pictured). Pichu is out of the way in the image anyway, so there wouldn't be a hole to fill in the image with him gone. Or have Jr out of the Clown Car sitting on dad's horns.
Also this is probably where Doc gets his one new victory animation from.
Because this would be amazing to see recreated in Smash 4 with Roy (and Mewtwo)
It's also kind of funny/cute Pichu is just hanging off Bowser's horn and he doesn't seem to mind at all.
Just replace Young Link with Toon Link and Ice Climbers with a crouched Sheik (only Melee character not pictured). Pichu is out of the way in the image anyway, so there wouldn't be a hole to fill in the image with him gone. Or have Jr out of the Clown Car sitting on dad's horns.
Secretly want this to stealth confirm once and for all Toon Link is just Young Link so I can stop getting in 15 page arguments on Reddit about it
Also this is probably where Doc gets his one new victory animation from.
KLatin Scelus
Member
Don't really care for Splatoon, so I'm probably not going to focus on the costume DLC. They do look spot on though, just like the X and Proto Man costumes. I like it!
In terms of aesthetics, that's a matter of opinion. I think he looks fine, especially since he's hunched over all of the time in Metroid games. The huge range and power is compensated by his size and weight making him easy combo fodder. Ridley could be a good spacing character, but getting up close and personal could be his weakness.
The only consistent trait about Ridley is that he's bigger than Samus, that's it. Almost every other aesthetic about him from his appearance, size, and color varies in almost every Metroid game.
Plus, Ridley scales pretty well with the big characters when they have Super Mushrooms.
As for his aerial game, Ridley has been shown in multiple 3D Metroid games that he's a competent fighter on the ground. If making Ridley being an aerial-focused character doesn't work, so be it, as you said Charizard and Mewtwo aren't represented perfectly in Smash, neither is Ganondorf or Wario, why does Ridley need to be perfect?
And as I have stated multiple times, they can always make a Smash-exclusive version of Ridley. He's had different appearances in the Metroid games, they can get away with it.
In terms of aesthetics, that's a matter of opinion. I think he looks fine, especially since he's hunched over all of the time in Metroid games. The huge range and power is compensated by his size and weight making him easy combo fodder. Ridley could be a good spacing character, but getting up close and personal could be his weakness.
The only consistent trait about Ridley is that he's bigger than Samus, that's it. Almost every other aesthetic about him from his appearance, size, and color varies in almost every Metroid game.
Plus, Ridley scales pretty well with the big characters when they have Super Mushrooms.
As for his aerial game, Ridley has been shown in multiple 3D Metroid games that he's a competent fighter on the ground. If making Ridley being an aerial-focused character doesn't work, so be it, as you said Charizard and Mewtwo aren't represented perfectly in Smash, neither is Ganondorf or Wario, why does Ridley need to be perfect?
And as I have stated multiple times, they can always make a Smash-exclusive version of Ridley. He's had different appearances in the Metroid games, they can get away with it.
Scaling Ridley down is the issue, not scaling the other characters up.
SuperLeviathan
Member
The only really awkward proportions are in the arms, which can easily be modified.
But sakurai chooses what version of the character to put in smash, or he makes a smash-version of that character. So the fact that Ridley looks fine when he's the same size as bowser and charizard means that even the current boss could be shrunk down and look decent.
The main problem is that sakurai got stuck on the other M design, while the right Ridley was in the Melee opening cinematic. Just put an other M coat of paint on tail-less charizard-sized Ridley.
"Oh but that's not Ridley" tell that to ganondorf! sakurai just personally likes Ridley better as a boss. He could be tweaked into a Smash version of Ridley, but then he isn't like the games anymore. Sakurai wants big scary Ridley that you see as bosses.
Sakurai also wants ganondorf to jog around the stage.
RomanceDawn
Member
Come on man. Ridley literally can't fit? Literally?
Everything you just spouted is completely subjective. Brawl Ridley scaled down looks weird. The Ridley from Project M looks pretty darn good in my opinion, he is slouched and hunched just like in every cannon appearance. Being big but hunched over gives the illusion that he is huge. Give him certain moves or traits that also give the illusion of flight. Like Mewtwo for instance, the way runs and jumps gives him the illusion of flight with out actually flying. To a lesser extent Charizard with 3 jumps and flair blitz as well.
Clipping is such a silly issue when you consider all the stages and various heights of platforms that are littered throughout. Like 75 Meters for instance, some characters easily clip a few set of platforms. What do you say about really low platforms clipping through every character like in Yoshi's Island Brawl? Even Ganondorf's head clips through the lower platforms on Battlefield, at least in Brawl anyway. That point is completely invalid considering the diversity of stage sizes, body types and platforms available to play with. It's the same kind of silly reasoning as "How would Little Mac throw someone? He has gloves!" or "Pikachu shouldn't be able to back throw Bowser because he's too big! It would just look weird!" Just stop.
Your reasoning behind his abilities being a bad fit for Smash are said as if it's the gospel. That is seriously my Jr high smash discussion right there. I remember people saying Mewtwo can't be in Smash because he can fly, he is too powerful and he can just use his powers to force people off the stage. I mean come on. Long arms and a long tail mean absolutely nothing if used properly. Why can't Ridley's tail act like Link's arrow but with less range? Why can't he have one or 2 long range Smash attacks like Palutena or Mega Man? His tilts can be just as long as DK's and all would be right in the world. People need to look at what we have now and use a little imagination when considering how Ridley could work.
Then his proportions, what his neck? That neck was done away with in Other M and the thicker version looks so much better scaled down. Ridley can have a huge body and wings no bigger than Charizard's. And it's totally cannon too because Ridley was depicted with small wings in every 2D Metroid, in game and the official art. The tail? Give it no hurt box when inactive and allow it to stretch over his body like a scorpion. It can still be very long without actually moving too far away from Ridley's body and as long as it functions like a tethered projectile it can go as far as the creators want. You balance something like that with charge animations, slow start ups, cool downs, what ever. We already have examples in the game of how the tail can work. He doesn't have to have a forward tilt like Mewtwo or Charizard but with absolutely insane range.
I like how you bring up all the things people complain about for Charizard, note that it doesn't completely fit the character but for what ever reason the same traits could never be done for Ridley. Yeah we complain but at least he is there. Ridley doesn't have to be good at everything. I hate the way Diddy is represented in Smash and I wish Ganondorf had an energy ball projectile but I am glad they are in the game.
We have no evidence that Sakurai tried to make it work, we know he considered it, but as far as having an actual playable version him we just don't know. You make it sound like black magic would be necessary to include him at all where as Sakurai made it sound like if he were scaled down he just didn't like what the outcome would be. It's not much different than Sakurai not sure how to implement Pac Man as a character for Brawl at Miyamoto's request. We know he didn't like the idea of fighting game characters and here we are now with Ryu most likely right around the corner.
I don't think there is much chance for Ridley at all in this game but you gotta knock it off with the "concrete" rationale. If Sakurai really wanted to(which he doesn't) he would do it, even if we ended up with some strange monstrosity like Melee Bowser skate boarding all over the place because Sakurai couldn't come up with a decent run animation.
MrSaturn99
Member
ridley will never be playable..........
RomanceDawn
Member
And this too is a possibility. Though I think at some point things will change especially of a new Metroid depicts him very differently. I don't mean in just size either, but with personality.
KLatin Scelus
Member
I was wandering when you were going to say that. lol
Well that blows my mini essay out of the water, fuck!
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
almost 4 years ever since they announced Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U.
stan423321
Member
The whole "Ridley, actually, is quite big" thing gave me a very weird dream/nightmare. Nintendo announcing Metroid Another M at E3, getting positive press for some reason, then a huge pre-release leak showing that the game is all about cloning Ridleys, then GAF discussing whether that was deliberately done to put him in Smash in smaller form or not.
I have no idea on what to make of the possibility of Ridley being in anymore
On the one hand, it's been dismissed multiple times and some concessions have to be made that Sakurai seems to think is contrary to the spirit of the character. (Which i disagree with, but I'm not in charge so my opinion doesn't count for shit as far as that goes)
On the other, Sakurai has backpedaled on a few of his decisions at a later time, and stranger characters have been made. Also Ganondorf is still pretty unfaithful to his source material from a moveset perspective.
We've been holding on to this vain hope ever since the Brawl days, and I imagine that there were a handful who have been wanting him since even earlier.
On the one hand, it's been dismissed multiple times and some concessions have to be made that Sakurai seems to think is contrary to the spirit of the character. (Which i disagree with, but I'm not in charge so my opinion doesn't count for shit as far as that goes)
On the other, Sakurai has backpedaled on a few of his decisions at a later time, and stranger characters have been made. Also Ganondorf is still pretty unfaithful to his source material from a moveset perspective.
We've been holding on to this vain hope ever since the Brawl days, and I imagine that there were a handful who have been wanting him since even earlier.
Green Mamba
Member
Ridley discussion will live on, likely forever, or until he becomes a Smash character, whichever comes first. Sakurai's incredibly misguided attempt at placating Ridley fans in SSB4 has only, rightly, fanned the flames. I'm not entirely certain he can work as a playable character, but Pyrosphere's Ridley is not the answer.
KLatin Scelus
Member
I would never say any popular Nintendo character will never be playable, or is guaranteed to be playable.
I would say all characters, Toad, Ridley, King K. Rool, Inklings, whatever, their chances would be from 1%-99%, but never an absolute 0% or 100%.
I would say all characters, Toad, Ridley, King K. Rool, Inklings, whatever, their chances would be from 1%-99%, but never an absolute 0% or 100%.
RomanceDawn
Member
Tail reach, wings, and flight seem to be the most difficult concept for people to imagine being worked into a playable Ridley. As much as I want and argue for Ridley I do somewhat understand the initial hesitation against it.
I think most of the fan made Ridley movements are ok but usually I feel like they do go over board with the tail for standard attacks. I'm going to draw up my own move set and then associate them with similar moves that are already in the game. Of course it runs the risk of not being completely unique but If Ridley had his Super Metroid "pogo tail" people might think its too good until they realize Greninja pretty much does the exact same thing already.
I think most of the fan made Ridley movements are ok but usually I feel like they do go over board with the tail for standard attacks. I'm going to draw up my own move set and then associate them with similar moves that are already in the game. Of course it runs the risk of not being completely unique but If Ridley had his Super Metroid "pogo tail" people might think its too good until they realize Greninja pretty much does the exact same thing already.
MrSaturn99
Member
I actually maybe sorta wouldn't mind this.
Maybe. I dunno. With Other M being a thing that exists, I'd be wary of any new direction Metroid would take.
LMAO
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Lunchbillion
Member
Oh Ridley debates, how I missed you.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Playing Splatoon really gave me a lot of good idea about Inkling's moveset, and best part is that there are even more weapons in the full game, so Inkling really have a lot of weapons and moves to draw from.
Too bad that we might have to wait for long time to see them as playable charter.
Too bad that we might have to wait for long time to see them as playable charter.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
No you only have to slap him once or twice and make him fight for you because that is totally something Ridley would do.
Yeah; even if another character ends up being shown first (Probably another popular Ballot character that doesn't make it as DLC), they're at least "First Trailer" tier.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
RE: Popularity
let's look at Jojo for example.
Japan really, really loves
Jojos part 3 (Stardust Crusaders) and 5 (The Golden Wind). If popularity were to be used, say in Super Jojo Brothers, 3 and 5 would clutter the character select if we simply base things on popularity.
Yeah you could argue 1 didn't have much way of characters, but somehow you're screwed in the head if you don't include best Nazi from 2 in a fighting game but put in a character who became irrelevant in part 5.
Which is why that popularity can definitely be a bad thing.
that's more to do with ganondorf being a "vet" than anything else really
to be fair isn't that what mother brain did
let's look at Jojo for example.
Japan really, really loves
worst
Yeah you could argue 1 didn't have much way of characters, but somehow you're screwed in the head if you don't include best Nazi from 2 in a fighting game but put in a character who became irrelevant in part 5.
Which is why that popularity can definitely be a bad thing.
that's more to do with ganondorf being a "vet" than anything else really
to be fair isn't that what mother brain did
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, getting Ridley to fight for you is so out of character that I can't take any argument to that effect seriously.
While I don't particularly want to campaign for Ridley's viability or lack thereof yet again, it would be a shame if the world never witnessed his absurdly cute sleeping animation.
I wouldn't be surprised either - the longevity of their respective franchises aside, it feels very similar to the Mii / Villager's Brawl absence. Though Splatoon's dismal sales might dampen their chances, despite them clearly being set up in the same paradigm as Pikmin and Animal Crossing in terms of prominent IP - hopefully Splatoon's failure will be treated as an extension of the Wii U's, rather than a sign of its lack of viability as a franchise.
I can kind of see where it came from, seeing as he's fought for Mother Brain, the faceless High Command and Metroid Prime throughout the series; with his corpse also used as a puppet for the X; but seeing as each instance was associated with the shifting allegiances of the Space Pirates themselves, he doesn't seem to have personally betrayed anyone. He's actually a very caring and loyal person.
I wouldn't be surprised either - the longevity of their respective franchises aside, it feels very similar to the Mii / Villager's Brawl absence. Though Splatoon's dismal sales might dampen their chances, despite them clearly being set up in the same paradigm as Pikmin and Animal Crossing in terms of prominent IP - hopefully Splatoon's failure will be treated as an extension of the Wii U's, rather than a sign of its lack of viability as a franchise.
I can kind of see where it came from, seeing as he's fought for Mother Brain, the faceless High Command and Metroid Prime throughout the series; with his corpse also used as a puppet for the X; but seeing as each instance was associated with the shifting allegiances of the Space Pirates themselves, he doesn't seem to have personally betrayed anyone. He's actually a very caring and loyal person.
Waluigilicious
Member
Bomberman is as ready as ever! I just wish more people voted for him. I feel that's the one thing holding him back. He's the most retro yet recognisable relevant to Nintendo's history character left.
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