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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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balladofwindfishes
Member
Anthony was too good of a character for Other M.
I liked him because Metroid has its roots in 80s action-horror-scifi movies and the token goofball black guy is so cliche of those movies, he works really well. He's one of the only aspects of Other M that remembers its Metroid roots as an off-brand Alien game.
In a world where Other M was a really good game and sold really well and he was a well written good character, Adam would have been a shoe in for Smash 4.
As it stands now, Dark Samus is Metroid's only chance. And she's an assist trophy... so that kind of leaves Metroid stuck with nobody or an awkward situation of turning an AT into a playable character.
I liked him because Metroid has its roots in 80s action-horror-scifi movies and the token goofball black guy is so cliche of those movies, he works really well. He's one of the only aspects of Other M that remembers its Metroid roots as an off-brand Alien game.
In a world where Other M was a really good game and sold really well and he was a well written good character, Adam would have been a shoe in for Smash 4.
As it stands now, Dark Samus is Metroid's only chance. And she's an assist trophy... so that kind of leaves Metroid stuck with nobody or an awkward situation of turning an AT into a playable character.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
wait who's Boson
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson
Edit: hopefully people stop bitching that Awakening has too many reps: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=164788149
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
oh the atom guy
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Two "reps" for one game still seems excessive. And before you say "Lucina doesn't count because she's a clone", they could have easily given that slot to Alph or Funky Kong or something.
Still not as bad as Kid Icarus, though. Palutena wouldn't have been playable if Uprising was directed by anybody else. And now that Kid Icarus already has three characters, the chances of Hades becoming playable are next to zero, and he's the best Nintendo villain in decades.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The difference between Alph and Lucina is that Lucina is one the most popular charactera in the most popular entry of her franchise. Alph is a literally who.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We've had two reps for the same game from larger series, other times.
In Melee with Ganondorf and Sheik and every single Smash bros game ever with Red/Blue reps.
I don't really see any issue with Lucina or Dark Pit. They're just clones, they don't matter much at all besides offering a slightly different character and 2 more runs through Single Player modes.
Alph not being a clone is an entirely other issue and I don't know where the Funky Kong stuff comes from as Funky couldn't even be a clone (in the Smash 4 sense) since he walks and stands completely different from DK.
In Melee with Ganondorf and Sheik and every single Smash bros game ever with Red/Blue reps.
I don't really see any issue with Lucina or Dark Pit. They're just clones, they don't matter much at all besides offering a slightly different character and 2 more runs through Single Player modes.
Alph not being a clone is an entirely other issue and I don't know where the Funky Kong stuff comes from as Funky couldn't even be a clone (in the Smash 4 sense) since he walks and stands completely different from DK.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Sheik was a transformation for Zelda that became her own character long after the fact. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all. I'd rather have fewer characters than have clones that take up precious "slots" because everybody is so fixated on the toxic "reps" mindset. A good character is a good character. Period. Hades support is pretty much non-existent because people think "lol we have too many Kid Icarus reps already".
False. Funky Kong's body shape is basically identical to DK's, which is probably why he was playable in Mario Kart Wii. And as you can see from the clip below, he "walks" in a similar fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5mCexfMrRg
balladofwindfishes
Member
Did you seriously just say Smash has "slots" on its roster that clones take up???
Gonzo The Great
Banned
No, you misconstrued the point I was trying to make. People say "Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus have too many reps" because of the clones, and refuse to support other characters in the series. Where is the campaign to get Hades in Smash? Where is the campaign to get Anna in Smash? I do think having two characters from Awakening is a bit much, but Lucina is a legitimate character with her own fanbase. Dark Pit is basically just a Sakurai OC, and his inclusion could potentially prevent characters like Hades and Medusa from getting in.
Is underboob the reason why people are so adamant about Ridley?
So what is everyones reveal predictions for E3? Based on the fact we have 4 unrevealed DLC characters, I believe its possible we are going to get 2-3 announced at E3
I predict:
-Ryu since we got a major 3rd party reveal the past two E3s
-Wolf revealed alongside the new Starfox Wii U
Roy will be revealed at the FE concert in July
I predict:
-Ryu since we got a major 3rd party reveal the past two E3s
-Wolf revealed alongside the new Starfox Wii U
-Ice Climbers. I have a gut feeling they will be there.
Roy will be revealed at the FE concert in July
balladofwindfishes
Member
How come nobody ever says Mother has too much representation in Smash?
Mother, by the size of it, is a series that deserves an assist trophy and maybe a music remix, at best. 2/3 of its games never left Japan. It never really sold that well, all three games came out late in their system's life. Its peers are games like Custom Robo.
And yet Mother has two characters (one has been around since day 1), two items, two assist trophies, a subspace boss, four stages across the series and almost as many music remixes as much larger series like Animal Crossing.
I think people have it stuck in their mind about this perceived Sakurai bias and try to pretend Kid Icarus is any different from Mother, when it's not. In fact it's larger than Mother, and has a similar representation as Mother and yet KI is over repped and Mother is fine. And yea, maybe KI is a little heavy with items, but that's about it, really.
I'm not saying we should cut Mother content. I just think people are too stuck in thinking Sakurai has a bias. This is the man that was afraid to add more Kirby reps because he didn't want to seem bias. And Dedede and Metaknight could have both been in Smash 64, honestly, they're really important.
I do think KI is perfectly repped right now with Pit and Palutena, with Dark Pit as a bonus.
direct_quote
Member
Up and atom!
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Again, you're completely missing the point. Though I do like how you brought up Mother, because it's another victim of the "reps" mindset. Many people feel that the series is adequately "represented" already, so they haven't been campaigning for characters like Porky or Kumatora, even though both of them would bring a lot to the table. And no, Meta Knight is not "really" important. He's arguably one of the most disposable characters on the roster. Seniority tends to cloud reality. Dedede though? I agree with you there.
Donkey Kong Country is by far the most "underrepresented" series in Smash, not including series' that haven't been represented thus far. Thankfully this seems to be a widespread mindset, given all the support K. Rool has been receiving. Dixie has received her fair share of support as well, but supporting K. Rool has the added benefit of proving to Retro Studios that people want the Kremlings back, whereas Dixie is already "back". There is no doubt in my mind that both characters deserve to be playable, but I have to support to K. Rool first.
Meta Knight is a major recurring antagonist and occasionally playable character in one of Nintendo's biggest series. He's the third most popular character in a series that easily warrants having three characters in Smash Bros. He's far from disposable.
balladofwindfishes
Member
imo Zelda is the most underrepresented series in Smash, roster wise.
No new comers since Melee (no, Toon Link doesn't count) for the third largest series in Smash...
No new comers since Melee (no, Toon Link doesn't count) for the third largest series in Smash...
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Now? Probably not. I don't believe in cutting any characters, but I also don't believe Meta Knight is as important as people think. He started appearing in more games after his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but before that he was primarily just a secondary boss. balladofwindfishes was arguing that both Dedede and Meta Knight should have been playable in Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 64.
Meta Knight:
Kirby's Adventure (boss)
Kirby's Pinball Land (cameo)
Kirby's Avalanche (boss)
Kirby Super Star (boss)
King Dedede:
Kirby's Dream Land (final boss)
Kirby's Adventure (boss)
Kirby's Pinball Land (final boss)
Kirby's Avalanche (final boss)
Kirby's Dream Land 2 (boss)
Kirby's Block Ball (final boss)
Kirby Super Star (boss)
Kirby's Dream Land 3 (boss)
They're not even comparable.
Newcomers for the sake of having newcomers isn't something I think Sakurai should do. Zelda already has the 3 important characters represented (Link, Zelda, Ganon) and doesn't need any other reps. Sheik and Toon Link are just extras and don't really even need to be on the roster.
This doesn't mean Zelda is "underrepresented", it has all the reps it needs. Same with some other series too, like Kirby and Mario.
balladofwindfishes
Member
There's no shortage of possible Zelda reps and the characters in Smash are kind of getting stale. Three games in a row with roughly the same representation is a little boring, especially for a series as huge as Zelda.
Big blue boar Ganon and Impa are both well known, long standing Zelda characters.
I thought Mario was underrepresented in Brawl as well for the same reason. It actually lost a character from Melee to Brawl (which luckily came back) and got no newcomers.
NeonZ
Member
Metaknight had a lot more presence in his appearances in the adventure/platforming Kirby games though. In Kirby's Adventure, he not only had a boss appearance near the ending, but also appeared giving items to the player or sending a bunch of his grunts to fight Kirby. Comparatively, Dedede only appeared for the boss fight itself.
In Kirby Super Star, in the subgame where Metaknight is a villain you also get tons of Starfox-like dialogue from him and his henchmen during the playthrough, while the sub game with Dedede as a villain only has him in the opening narration and then the "final" boss battle itself (although Dedede also gets the racing subgame).
That kind of thinking really makes new installments in the series less exciting for Zelda fans though. And it's really arbitrary too. Other series have no problem getting characters that only appear in one game, so why not Zelda? There's also the obvious absence of Ganon, which is limited to a final Smash that uses a version that only appeared in a single game and was completely different from any other one.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The majority of Kirby representation in Smash is from Super Star anyway, so Metaknight's significant role in that game plays a big part in why he's an obvious choice for Smash.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I'd like to see Tingle. He's the only Zelda character not named Link or Zelda who has actually starred in his own game. They probably didn't even consider him since he's so reviled in the West, but after the release of the Hyrule Warriors DLC, I think the overall public perception is starting to change. Unfortunately, he's already an Assist Trophy right now, but he could be promoted next game like Little Mac.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
You mean the two Kirby platformers that were directed by Sakurai? I have nothing against Meta Knight as a character, but I think his "importance" is definitely overstated. Not that importance matters, otherwise Rosalina wouldn't be in the game. I just find it funny how people prop up Meta Knight as being some major antagonist, then the same people will dismiss K. Rool and Ridley for other reasons. The game needs more villains. There's no question about it. I'll even take the bipedal version of Mother Brain from Super Metroid.
balladofwindfishes
Member
How funny would it be if we got a giant character mode in Smash and got Mother Brain instead of Ridley lol
I'm talking about now, not during the time of Smash 64. A lot has happened with Meta Knight since 1999.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
My hope for SSB5 is that they try incorporating "giants" into the roster somehow. Other fighting games have them, and it will open up the floodgates for seemingly unorthodox, yet "important" Nintendo characters.
Petey Piranha
Beast Ganon
Ridley
Mother Brain
Andross
Heavily Armed Porky
Emperor Bulblax
There is a lot to work with.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You'll get Mega Mushroom Mario and you'll like it!
Beast Ganon isn't really often shown as being that big. Other than the 3D games, but a Beast Ganon would certainly be the blue boar with a spear. He's really not any bigger than Bowser is in some games and he can scale down easily.
Majora might be a better giant Zelda rep.
I'm trying to think of a huge popular Pokemon that isn't in a pair and I'm drawing a blank except Rayquaza.
Beast Ganon isn't really often shown as being that big. Other than the 3D games, but a Beast Ganon would certainly be the blue boar with a spear. He's really not any bigger than Bowser is in some games and he can scale down easily.
Majora might be a better giant Zelda rep.
I'm trying to think of a huge popular Pokemon that isn't in a pair and I'm drawing a blank except Rayquaza.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Yeah, you're probably right. Beast Ganon can easily be scaled down to regular size, but I was basing that on Ganondorf's Final Smash. Aside from K. Rool and Ridley, Beast Ganon and Hades are the villains I want to see most.
Zelda -> Great Fairy
Kirby -> Whispy Woods (lol)
Pokémon -> Groudon
HO BOY bulblax would be insane! I've always liked huge characters like Giga Bowser whole playing with mods and stuff, I think Nintendo has enough giants to warrent trying to figure out how to make them fun to fight.
I'd also love to see Giga Bowser, Giant Donkey Kong and Metal Mario in Smash as "smash series" reps. Put them where the clone corner currently is and you've got a cool selection of bosses with a Mortal Kombat trilogy style "boss row" of big guys.
balladofwindfishes
Member
- Giga Bowser
- Ridley
- Majora
- Knightmare
- Rayquaza
- Metal Face
- Porky
- Andross 64
- Medusa
- Death Egg Mech
Yea, that addition could be fun, but might require an entire new roster. They'd probably limit it to only four or so characters.
lol Bulbax is a little smaller than Pikachu.
They could even scale Demise up a tad and have him work.
- Ridley
- Majora
- Knightmare
- Rayquaza
- Metal Face
- Porky
- Andross 64
- Medusa
- Death Egg Mech
Yea, that addition could be fun, but might require an entire new roster. They'd probably limit it to only four or so characters.
lol Bulbax is a little smaller than Pikachu.
They could even scale Demise up a tad and have him work.
All this talk of series "reps" and I bet at some point Sakurai stopped caring about that and focused more on who he thought was popular and warranted a different moveset.
He after all finally added MK and Dedede into the same game, then turned around and did it again with his next Smash title and Kid Icarus.
He after all finally added MK and Dedede into the same game, then turned around and did it again with his next Smash title and Kid Icarus.
Well Kirby isn't zelda or Mario,but its still popular, also he made kirby. So your statement doesn't mean much.
And while you could have a point about KI, he probably just put them in there because he made the new ki.
Also I don't like typing KI because I think Killer Instinct instead of Kid Icarus, and while I am thinking correctly, I now wish the KI soundtrack was in smash
Boar Ganon is just another form of Ganon. He would make for a good rep, but I don't exactly feel like Ganon representation is lacking since we have Ganondorf (though I would like if Ganondorf's moveset was revamped).
Impa is a side character and always has been a side character. She's arguably the most important side character in the series, but as a side character she doesn't need to be in Smash. I know, Rosalina, a side character, is in the game, but I don't agree with her inclusion either.
Well if we're thinking about fan bases then think about the fans who have zero characters from their favorite series repped in Smash. I'd much rather have new characters from completely unrepped series than B-tier characters from a series which already has 4 characters and 1 clone.
GiantBreadbug
Member
My real problem with Dark Pit is how he uses the damn Guardian Orbitars. Like, just reskin the attack to use a different weapon. They went through the trouble of modeling the Electroshock Arm, why not use the Gemini Orbitars or something? Pittoo was close to having at least aesthetically unique specials.
Also I say separate Alph from Olimar and give him Rock Pikmin instead of Purples and let him use the SS Drake in his FS. I'd be down with that.
Also I say separate Alph from Olimar and give him Rock Pikmin instead of Purples and let him use the SS Drake in his FS. I'd be down with that.
Because kirby platforms have been a lot more relevant to folks than DK ones? His design is good. There was a cartoon that wasn't widely regarded as a failure unlike DK, that sakurai over saw himself. DK hasn't been Country for a while and when it came back K rool, was gone and during that period kirby is still very much a thing. Kirby arguably doesn't have a bad game. so all memories are pleasant
There are reasons
Some I didn't list because they sound mean , but there are reasons. Why people like regard metaknight more than rool
It’s obviously not going to happen with DLC, but would you guys be for or against the inclusion of secondary guest characters in a future Smash Bros.? I’m talking about Tails, Eggman, Wily, Chun-Li, M. Bison, and so on. We’re running low on true Nintendo all-stars, but there are some big names left to be gleaned from the already represented third-parties.
Personally, I think the impact of a third-party series might be diluted if it were to receive a second or third character, but I don’t think I’d be upset if it actually happened.
Personally, I think the impact of a third-party series might be diluted if it were to receive a second or third character, but I don’t think I’d be upset if it actually happened.
You know, when you put it like that, you make Meta Knight sound like Boba Fett. But by the time Brawl came along, he'd been playable in Nightmare in Dreamland and he was the primary antagonist of Amazing Mirror
until a big eyeball monster took over (it's not a spoiler if it's obvious but tagging anyway).
That and he's had plenty of presence in advertising. Look at the Nightmare in Dreamland box!
Secondary guest characters for third-party companies would be okay; following the precedent of Ryu, but I'd rather not have any individual third-party series represented with more than one character - at most, some third-party characters could be given more extensive alts, including things like Metal Sonic, Ms. Pac-Man, Evil Ryu and Protoman. In addition, I don't think the well of IP will be all that barren if the next installment is planned for release in a few years - it'll skew towards more recent releases by necessity, but I don't think they'll have that much difficulty when new franchises, new characters from existing ones, promoted Assist Trophies and previously-absent third parties are all taken into consideration.
And since the next game will be exclusive to mobile devices, Konami's renewed co-operation and Snake's subsequent return will likely generate a lot of interest as well.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Define "relevant". Number of releases? DK wins. Sales? DK wins. Yeah, K. Rool is fat and ugly, so not everybody is going to like his design. Fair enough. The DKC cartoon was never regarded as a failure. In fact, the entire first reason was recently released on DVD while Kirby of the Stars is MIA. Unlike DK, the Kirby series has had the same developer since the very beginning. DK was in limbo during the GCN era due to the Rare buyout, leading people to fabricate a narrative that the DKC games were overrated, Rare was a terrible developer, and all of the characters they designed were ugly and worthless. No other franchise has been screwed over as badly as DK has; to have its main developer be forcibly taken away without an ideal replacement in sight. So yeah, there is some truth to what you are saying in that regard, since Kirby was flourishing while DK was being passed around from developer to developer. If the buyout never happened, it's pretty obvious that the DK representation in Smash would look a lot different.
Here is something that admins of DK Vine were discussing in an episode of the Kongversation:
Kirby platformers with Meta Knight:
Kirby's Adventure
Kirby Super Star
Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror
Kirby: Squeak Squad
Kirby Super Star Ultra
Kirby's Epic Yarn
Kirby's Return to Dream Land
Kirby platformers without Meta Knight:
Kirby's Dream Land
Kirby's Dream Land 2
Kirby's Dream Land 3
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
Kirby: Triple Deluxe
DK platformers with K. Rool:
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble
Donkey Kong Land
Donkey Kong Land 2
Donkey Kong Land III
Donkey Kong 64
Donkey Kong Country (GBC)
Donkey Kong Country (GBA)
Donkey Kong Country 2 (GBA)
Donkey Kong Country 3 (GBA)
DK platformers without K. Rool:
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
New Play Control!: Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
You're counting the GBA and GBC ports as well as the Land games? Also, in three of the Kirby games you listed, Meta Knight is playable. He's also playable in Canvas Curse and in Triple Deluxe,
Dark Meta Knight is a secret boss.
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