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[Neiteio]

Man I love playing as Ryu. The Smash team handled him so well. Props to them.

Ryu mirrors are a lot fun since it sort of feels like a Street Fighter match. Playing the fireball game and then baiting the player to jump in so you can punish with up smash or shoryuken.

Ryu makes me excited for whatever newcomer(s) Sakurai might make next. So much genius packed into one character!

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Well I didn't say my observation of the particular K. Rool fans in this very topic were respectful, I was talking about the remainder of my posts (including the rest of the one in which I made said observation).

And you are certainly exaggerating. Do you know why very few people were extremely vocal about Rosalina? Because the mainline of Mario characters were already there. We had Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and the side-series characters of Wario, Yoshi and Donkey Kong. Not counting Wario as a Mario character (since he mainly represents his own 2 series more so than the Mario series), we even went down one Mario character in the transition from Melee to Brawl - Dr. Mario.
There just wasn't a lot of expectation for an additional Mario character; the last time the roster changed, it went down, and people felt uneasy about making speculations on very recent characters such as Bowser Jr. and Rosalina, while Toad was disregarded because he's very generic, even more so than Yoshi (who has a plethora of unique abilities).
Additionally, Rosalina's status as spin-off character was all but secure early on. She got skipped in a Mario Tennis game because of time restraints (Luma got in instead) and she wasn't made a playable but a boardmaster in one Mario Party game. However, since then, she's become a fan favourite in Mario Kart Wii and especially 7.

In regards to Smash, I've seen plenty of people suggest Rosalina, though, and not only as a costume. Again, personally, I expected her to be a costume at best given the track record for Mario characters and the recency of the character. For me, IF we were to get a new Mario character, it was either between her or Jr. - little did I know, eh? However, the moment she was revealed for 3D World I knew she was gonna be playable in Smash (and I argued as much back then).

Suggesting that the character wasn't popular or didn't have (m)any supporters prior to her reveal is being in denial. They just weren't as vocal or didn't have as many expectations simply because the character is both recent and from a series that had been reduced by one character before. Nobody truly expected a Mario newcomer, let alone 2, and Dr. Mario returning. That's why the discussions were fairly quiet about her, and Mario characters in general.

So you ignored 95% of my post and instead focused your attention on something I already acknowledged as being true. Uh... okay.

Rosalina was never highly requested, but she has always had a vocal fanbase. They just assumed that Sakurai wouldn't add yet another Mario character, and he surprised us all by adding both Rosalina AND the Koopalings.

 

[Kouichi]

Ryu makes me excited for whatever newcomer(s) Sakurai might make next. So much genius packed into one character!

I knew he'd do something unique with Ryu given his origins and legacy, but not to the extent they went with adding weak/strong attacks AND Street Fighter inputs! Something simple like an EX bar is all I, and most, expected. Smash 4 really does have the best set newcomers with all their unique moves and gameplay mechanics.

And yet Toad's many playable appearances get him a fat old goose egg and because Sakurai made that choice, he gets dumped on for being generic while Rosalina gets paraded around as like the "logical" next step. This post will probably get some response where people downplay his uniqueness or whatever as if it were objective that he couldn't have a great moveset, all because they don't have to defend what didn't pan out. That's the point here

Heck, if we're talking Dixie's cred, she's been in 3-5 main games playable.

Development constraints are a thing too, even if the fanbase's "slots" argument is a load of phooey.

Or maybe some people do have actual reasons for believing Rosalina was a great choice and their reasons are in no way a part of this weird retroactive conspiracy theory some of you keep tossing around.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I wish Magicant was ported to the Wii U as DLC or something.

I'd like to see this song used.

I think it's a better version of the song than the one actually in Smash, more true to the original, and has an "other world" way about it that fits Magicant.

And Smash is no stranger to using Mother songs from albums (like half the New Pork City soundtrack is from the Mother3i Album).

 

[kirby_fox]

I wish Magicant was ported to the Wii U as DLC or something.

I'd like to see this song used.

I think it's a better version of the song than the one actually in Smash, more true to the original, and has an "other world" way about it that fits Magicant.

And Smash is no stranger to using Mother songs from albums (like half the New Pork City soundtrack is from the Mother3i Album).

Don't count on it. I think I can finally understand some of the things going on in the decisions made. They wanted to keep the characters the same on each so that it'd be a lot easier to create a roster and not have everyone wish one character was ported over. Stages they figured would be acceptable, and a good way to make the 2 titles different enough along with Smash Run. That way people would buy both games and still have different experiences.

This is also why I laugh at all the "Oh they're obviously porting Smash to the NX" shit that everyone keeps bringing up. Nintendo has yet to release an upgraded version with DLC added, the only ports we really had that feel similar were the New Play ports that added new controls for games from GCN.

People are jumping way ahead of themselves with all this NX talk and are going to wind up disappointed when we don't get a Smash game for another 4 years.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well some stage needs to get You Call This a Utopia and Humoresque of a Little Dog.

You don't just cut my two favorite Brawl Mother songs like that.

On that note, Omega New Pork City would be a sight to see. That'd actually probably look really cool with the giant city in the background.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The discussion really though is, is Nintendo smart enough to understand the value of a semi-sequel to Smash on Wii U/3DS, or will they release it way too late again?

 

[kirby_fox]

Well some stage needs to get You Call This a Utopia and Humoresque of a Little Dog.

You don't just cut my two favorite Brawl Mother songs like that.

On that note, Omega New Pork City would be a sight to see. That'd actually probably look really cool with the giant city in the background.

I'd love to see a bunch of stages return. Where's Pirate Ship and Termina for crying out loud? Give me Saffron City and Fourside back too.

But I can understand Sakurai's views on this. Doesn't mean I agree with them, and a part of me wishes the 3DS version didn't exist because I'd be super curious what we would've gotten if it didn't.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'd love to see a bunch of stages return. Where's Pirate Ship and Termina for crying out loud? Give me Saffron City and Fourside back too.

But I can understand Sakurai's views on this. Doesn't mean I agree with them, and a part of me wishes the 3DS version didn't exist because I'd be super curious what we would've gotten if it didn't.

Ice Climbers
5 Pikmin
A third of the sales

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Yeah it makes sense why in a business sense they made those sacrifices, it just sucks that they had to at all.

 

[kirby_fox]

Ice Climbers
5 Pikmin
A third of the sales

Imagine: Smash not being on 3DS actually spurred Wii U sales resulting in the Wii U lasting a lot longer. On top of that, Roy, Mewtwo, Lucas and Ryu were part of the base game and the DLC is brand new characters and a few returning ones.

 

[Neiteio]

Imagine: Smash not being on 3DS actually spurred Wii U sales resulting in the Wii U lasting a lot longer. On top of that, Roy, Mewtwo, Lucas and Ryu were part of the base game and the DLC is brand new characters and a few returning ones.

Yeah, sometimes I wonder how much the 3DS version undercut the WiiU version's sales (and WiiU sales, by extension). No way to know for sure.

 

[oreomunsta]

Can we talk about how amazing Ryu is?

Ryuuuuuuuuu

Shor yu ken talk all about the best DLC fighter yet :]

The fact that he is in, and works so well, still leaves me dumbfounded

 

[Neiteio]

Shor yu ken talk all about the best DLC fighter yet :]

The fact that he is in, and works so well, still leaves me dumbfounded

Ryu is so fun. Everything about him. Even if you don't do command inputs, etc, and just stick to Smash 101, he's still a blast. He's a character that's rewarding for anyone with any level of skill or investment.

Now I'm wondering what it would've been like if, at E3 2013, they had shown Mega Man -and- Ryu, for a one-two Capcom PUNCH. Probably best that Mega Man had his moment, but how amazing that would've been.

 

[Boss Doggie]

That isn't Xabungle, it's Dougram. And the fat one's a Scopedog with Dougram's head. I thought you surfed /m/.

Oh, my bad.

Spoiler

I don't watch Dougram

 

[dangeraaron10]

Why is it that fans of K. Rool are always so full of hatred, so vile and toxic? It's utterly disgusting..

Hey, don't throw us all under the bus, now. We don't think with a hive mind.

Edit: And to be clear, I'm fully supportive of female characters. I was ecstatic when Lucina (and Robin) got in over Chrom when I was absolutely sure he was getting in, because I actually liked Lucina as a character. As for Rosalina, she's cooler than Peach I think, and we get Bowser Jr. anyway so I have nothing to gripe about. And also I'd love for a DK bundle including Dixie and K. Rool with a Gangplank Galleon stage. That would basically be the love letter to the DK series in Smash and you wouldn't really need anything else.

 

[oreomunsta]

Ryu is so fun. Everything about him. Even if you don't do command inputs, etc, and just stick to Smash 101, he's still a blast. He's a character that's rewarding for anyone with any level of skill or investment.

Now I'm wondering what it would've been like if, at E3 2013, they had shown Mega Man -and- Ryu, for a one-two Capcom PUNCH. Probably best that Mega Man had his moment, but how amazing that would've been.

Imagine, if you will, a door. Through this door, we see a hype hole. The exotic, incredible counterpoint to the black hole. Rather than devour matter and energy, the hype hole expulses both relentlessly.

GAF approached critical threshold hype levels when Megaman was revealed. If Ryu was, too, our existence would have compacted into a hype hole and been reduced to pure, destructive hype.

 

[BGBW]

Let's look at who else is there.

• Wolf is obviously coming, or at least there's a 99% chance of him coming.
• King K. Rool hasn't been used in a DK game in years, so he has no chance without the ballot (which doesn't matter in this particular case, since he's rocking the ballot anyway)
• Wonder Red's game bombed hard, see King K. Rool (but unlike Rool, Wonder Red's success in the ballot is up in the air)
• Isaac's game is dead (see Wonder Red, but at least he isn't an Assist Trophy anymore)
• Nintendo burned most of their third party bridges, including Konami. Not to mention the shit that Konami is going through right now (& Kojima being on his way out). As such, I don't think Snake will ever return.

You get the idea. The only ones that may have a chance are Pichu (if they take the Roy approach) & the Chorus Kids (assuming they didn't have any Ice Climbers issues & time constraints were their only issue). Maybe Squirtle & Ivysaur, but that'd be a bit overkill for Pokémon reps (though to be fair, the same logic applies to Pichu).

You'd think in a Nintendo fan dedicated thread the concept that Nintendo has no characters wouldn't appear but here it is.

I, on the other hand, welcome Chibi Robo and his electric cable whip into the fray with open arms (or fingers since he's so small).

 

[NeonZ]

As a female that wants more females, I must say ZSS was probably added due to her uh...sexiness factor.

I mean adding a "character" that just appears at a game over screen or at the end is about the most random thing. I am not a huge Metroid player but I may be wrong, but in Metroid she doesn't seem like all that much. Tho I do belive you play as her in the end of one of the games so I may be wrong. (Fusion?) but that still doesn't seem like enough to add her in Smash or even back in the day tack her on to an already existing character. It just seemed so random in Brawl for her to be shieked on.

Zero Suit Samus, with her stun pistol, is playable from the start of the added content to Metroid Zero Mission (Metroid 1 remake) for GBA (which is also from where the Varia suit design in Brawl comes from). After a while you recover the power suit though.

And despite my love of the character, Rosalina seems like an odd choice before Toad or Paper Mario. I ain't complaining, but even with the way they were pushing her it just seemed random. Like Snake, a favor Sakurai did for someone.

Toad seems to suffer from Sakurai apparently considering him unfitting as a playable character. It's not a matter of Rosalina over him, it's just a matter of him not being added at all. Remember, back in Brawl, there was just no new Mario character. He has never actually confirmed that openly, but that really seems to be the case. He likely considers him on the level of generic enemies, like goombas and koopas, since Toad was never built up as an unique character in Japan, while the old cartoons were very influential in making the western fans see Toad as a character on his own.

Most other female characters are only in because they are a custom character. And as much as I'm glad Robin and Villager are in its kinda feels sad for some reason. Tho its understandable because theres just not alot of female characters that are popular enough or revelent enough to warrant a spot unless they just keep adding Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem characters.

The sad thing about female Robin in Smash is that Smash Bros basically killed her anyway due to the Amiibo only featuring male Robin. IS used to do an excellent job of keeping Robin's design ambiguous and attempting to place both genders on the same level, but Smash basically killed that. Male Robin in STEAM, Male Robin in Fire Emblem Fates, Male Robin in Mario Maker...

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So there were rumors before that Heihachi was planned for Smash 4, but was cut because Namco didn't want to.

It actually was Sakurai who didn't want to. He didn't think his gameplay would translate into a good Smash moveset.

I kind of wonder if that was just an excuse to not add a slightly lesser known fighting game character before the king of fighting games himself, Ryu.

If Namco helps with Smash 5, I could see Heihachi getting in. Especially with Pokken coming out.


Sakurai also published some books on the design process for Smash 4, so we may find a bunch more information on cut characters.

 

[BGBW]

That's because you know who will be Namco's second rep...

 

[Boss Doggie]

Klonoa?

Valkyrie for more goddess shenanigans?

 

[mStudios]

.

I can see Namco doing Smash 5 again.

Also

Ryu > Heihachi

The sad thing about female Robin in Smash is that Smash Bros basically killed her anyway due to the Amiibo only featuring male Robin. IS used to do an excellent job of keeping Robin's design ambiguous and attempting to place both genders on the same level, but Smash basically killed that. Male Robin in STEAM, Male Robin in Fire Emblem Fates, Male Robin in Mario Maker...

Lets be honest here. Sakurai does not control the Amiibos toys. If Nintendo wanted a female robin, they would make her. Sakurai has nothing to do with it. (Hell, he included female robin in the cast, when he coulda easily just include the male one).
Could he have said something? Yes
Was Sakurai the one who didn't include her? Doubt it

Same goes for the WiiFit Amiibo, we only got the Female one. Let Sakurai have a break.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

For all the stuff I give them for cutting Fourside, Humoresque and Utopia, the Mother series really is one of the best represented series in the game for music. All three games are represented well with music.

Series as a whole: Pollyanna, Snowman
EBB: Magicant, Bein' Friends/Mother Medley
Earthbound: Onett, Smiles and Tears
Mother 3: Porky's Theme, Smashing Song of Praise, Love Theme

That's some amazing coverage. Especially when other series with only 3-4 games manage to struggle to represent them all with music (like Animal Crossing, Punch Out and Kid Icarus).

Fourside would be another one for the Earthbound pile, Utopia would be another Mother 3 and Humoresque would rep the whole series. Oh well.

 

[HeavyMetalLover91]

For all the stuff I give them for cutting Fourside, Humoresque and Utopia, the Mother series really is one of the best represented series in the game for music. All three games are represented well with music.

Series as a whole: Pollyanna, Snowman
EBB: Magicant, Bein' Friends/Mother Medley
Earthbound: Onett, Smiles and Tears
Mother 3: Porky's Theme, Smashing Song of Praise, Love Theme

That's some amazing coverage. Especially when other series with only 3-4 games manage to struggle to represent them all with music (like Animal Crossing, Punch Out and Kid Icarus).

Fourside would be another one for the Earthbound pile, Utopia would be another Mother 3 and Humoresque would rep the whole series. Oh well.

Semi-related but do we know which songs were in past Smash games but left out in this one? Is there a list anywhere? Im curious as this could give us some kind of idea about what stages could be potential dlc, fourside being one of them perhaps?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Looking at Wolf (and his data in the smash wiki), it'd be interesting to see how he translates into 4 assuming he gets in. In Brawl he falls fast and transitions from ground to air rather quickly, with risky but dangerous moves (and a powerful down smash).

 

[BGBW]

Sakurai says: “From now until the end, it is going to be fan service”

HD panties confirmed.

 

[Neoxon]

Sakurai says: “From now until the end, it is going to be fan service”

HD panties confirmed.

So basically after the last two placeholders (likely Wolf & whoever), they're gonna go balls-out with the ballot picks.

 

[Boss Doggie]

someone should make a thread about the complete interview

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm glad he mentioned Roy's actor.

That dude is SPOT ON from Melee. Like, nearly identical in all aspects to his Melee voice. Voice actors usually have a hard time getting back into characters they haven't done in 15 years, so I was pretty impressed by this.

 

[Zubz]

So there were rumors before that Heihachi was planned for Smash 4, but was cut because Namco didn't want to.

It actually was Sakurai who didn't want to. He didn't think his gameplay would translate into a good Smash moveset.

I kind of wonder if that was just an excuse to not add a slightly lesser known fighting game character before the king of fighting games himself, Ryu.

If Namco helps with Smash 5, I could see Heihachi getting in. Especially with Pokken coming out.


Sakurai also published some books on the design process for Smash 4, so we may find a bunch more information on cut characters.

Heihachi would've been incredible! I can see why he was cut, but he was still really fun to play as in PSASBR; I could only imagine what they'd do for him in Smash! If Namco gets another rep and they choose him over Klonoa, Lloyd, or a Soul Calibur rep, I'd be fine with that. And that book'd be nice to see, too. I mean, we might finally know how the Chorus Kids were supposed to work!

Sakurai says: “From now until the end, it is going to be fan service”

HD panties confirmed.

Oh man, I can't wait to see what they do for the Ballot picks now! I mean, for starters, I'm somehow more certain we're getting K. Rool than before. But if they're trying to go for "fan service" characters... Maybe they will bite the bullet and go for the Inklings or Banjo.

Spoiler

Or he meant "literally," so Chrom, Bayonetta, and/or Shantae.

 

[Neoxon]

Heihachi would've been incredible! I can see why he was cut, but he was still really fun to play as in PSASBR; I could only imagine what they'd do for him in Smash! If Namco gets another rep and they choose him over Klonoa, Lloyd, or a Soul Calibur rep, I'd be fine with that. And that book'd be nice to see, too. I mean, we might finally know how the Chorus Kids were supposed to work!



Oh man, I can't wait to see what they do for the Ballot picks now! I mean, for starters, I'm somehow more certain we're getting K. Rool than before. But if they're trying to go for "fan service" characters... Maybe they will bite the bullet and go for the Inklings or Banjo.

Spoiler

Or he meant "literally," so Chrom, Bayonetta, and/or Shantae.

I doubt they'll attempt Banjo with all the potential legal troubles between Nintendo & Microsoft (more on Nintendo's end), but the Inklings have a good shot even without the ballot.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

"Several" makes it sound like there's more than the two people assumed they would end with.

 

[Neoxon]

"Several" makes it sound like there's more than the two people assumed they would end with.

I never said they'd end with the two. I said they'd stop non-ballot characters with the two placeholders & do another wave of ballot picks next year.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I never said they'd end with the two. I said they'd stop non-ballot characters with the two placeholders & do another wave of ballot picks next year.

I wasn't talking about you. People are Reddit were convinced that the two extra slots meant that exactly 2 characters were coming and no more.

 

[Boss Doggie]

have they forgotten that the slots thing don't matter since the "empty" areas adjust when new characters come in

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

K. Rool here we come!

Also even if Wolf isn't from before the ballot, which would suck, he has probably an even better chance at winning the ballot thanks to his support all over the world and Japan's love for veterans.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

"From now until the end, it is going to be fan service"

Oh really?

Okay, this is what I'm thinking:

- Wolf and potentially Pichu before the ballot ends
- 3-5 ballot characters, including King K. Rool, Isaac, Inkling, Dixie Kong, and an unexpected third party character
- A Gangplank Galleon stage containing new arrangements by David Wise

Spoiler

Would be the game of forever for me.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Semi-related but do we know which songs were in past Smash games but left out in this one? Is there a list anywhere? Im curious as this could give us some kind of idea about what stages could be potential dlc, fourside being one of them perhaps?

I made this post a few months ago, it took awhile to find (I edited out songs now used for DLC)

I only counted actual stage songs, not events or boss fights. I included rips from other games though.

64

-Brinstar
-Sector Z
-Super Mario Bros

Melee

-Battlefield
-Balloon Trip
-Saria's Song
-Fourside
-Super Mario Bros
-Super Mario Bros 2
-Jungle Japes

Brawl

-Main Theme (Vocal Version)
-Main Theme (Melee, Brawl Version)
-Ground Theme 2 (Super Mario Bros.)
-Underground Theme (Super Mario Bros.)
-Gritzy Desert
-The Map Page / Bonus Level
-DK Jungle 1 Theme (Barrel Blast)
-Termina Field
-The Great Sea (Original version)
-Molgera Battle
-Opening / Menu (Metroid Prime)
-Checker Knights
-Forest / Nature Area (Original version)
-Wild Pokemon Battle! (Diamond / Pearl) (Brawl version)
-Humoresque of a Little Dog
-You Call This a Utopia?!
-Mike's Song (Japanese and English)
-Mona Pizza's Song (Japanese and English)
-Ai no Uta (Japanese and French)
-Tane no Uta
-Balloon Trip (Brawl version)
-Power-Up Music (Wrecking Crew)
-Douchuumen (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
-Mii Channel
-Wii Shop Channel
-Charge! (Wii Play)
-Shaberu! DS Cooking Navi
-Everything from Metal Gear
-Scrap Brain Zone
-Emerald Hill Zone
-Sonic Boom
-Super Sonic Racing

3DS (new songs added not on Wii U)

-Green Greens (Original)
-Castle Lololo (Original)
-Float Islands (Original)
-Bubble Clouds (Original)
-Mt Dedede (Original)
-Dark Pit (Mission Version)
-Reset Bomb (Mission Version)
-Lumiose City (Original)

 

[Boss Doggie]

stop giving me hope damn it!

 

[dangeraaron10]

Sakurai says: “From now until the end, it is going to be fan service”

I'm liking what I'm seeing.

Let's get some K. Rool and Isaac up in here!

 

[FleenerW]

I'm liking what I'm seeing.

Let's get some K. Rool and Isaac up in here!

Been dreaming of Isaac even before Brawl.

LET'S GO HHNNGGGHhhasdfjkl;

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I just realized this is the first game in the entire series where we'll be able to recreate the iconic Classic Mode fight between the Mario Bros on Peach's Castle.

You couldn't do it in Smash 64 because of Team Colors and the stage never appeared again.

10 year old me would have flipped out being able to recreate Classic Mode fights. I was always frustrated there was no way to make Mario metal or DK giant or have teams without Team Colors.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Sakurai says: “From now until the end, it is going to be fan service”

HD panties confirmed.

Sound like two more characters.

"Several" makes it sound like there's more than the two people assumed they would end with.

I don't know. It sound sketchy at best.

Heihachi would've been incredible! I can see why he was cut, but he was still really fun to play as in PSASBR; I could only imagine what they'd do for him in Smash! If Namco gets another rep and they choose him over Klonoa, Lloyd, or a Soul Calibur rep, I'd be fine with that. And that book'd be nice to see, too. I mean, we might finally know how the Chorus Kids were supposed to work!

Alright, if Heihachi is going to keep his missile level 3 for final smash, then I'm all in for that!

 

[Masked Man]

The SG guys and I talked about that "several characters" line, and we all agreed he's thinking about 2 or 3 at most.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Oh hey so this is where you guys were.

 

[IntelliHeath]

The SG guys and I talked about that "several characters" line, and we all agreed he's thinking about 2 or 3 at most.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I already set my expectation that we are getting two more.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

I dunno what to expect...you've got the Mario's and all but would they really just take two characters from such a long ballot?

 

[RomanceDawn]

I dunno what to expect...you've got the Mario's and all but would they really just take two characters from such a long ballot?

They might but you gotta understand the data from that ballot will be referenced for years to come! As a matter of fact we will hear years form now in an interview how they chose some characters who did well in the ballot for the NX version of Smash.

Get ready for New Play Control: Super Smash Bros ThWiiDU Game Of The Year Ultimate Anniversary Directors Cut Addition Battle and Knuckles.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

He said "several characters have been planned", which means that... several characters have been planned. However, the ballot doesn't end until October, which suggest to me that they have planned to release 2-3 characters before the ballot ends.