Support NeoGAF

[Dr. Buni]

I would be happy to see those three characters tho. I would be okay if we are going to get RARE LTD Bundle; those 3 characters with two stages, one stage from Banjo & Kazooie and Gangplank Galleon.

However, I'm not sure if we would get Gangplank Galleon as stage because we haven't got Bowser Castle stage yet. Paper Mario stage don't count.

Yeah, me too. I am a "supporter" of them all Banjo & Kazooie's stage would probably be Spiral Mountain or Gruntilda's Lair, I think.

I would actually prefer K. Rool's stage to be The Flying Krock from DKC2, even though Gankplank Galleon is more iconic.

I guess that's good thing that I don't really care about voice clips (I think you probably know why)

Yeah, I know why.

Adeleine would have had the potential for a really unique moveset. If she had become a recurring character after her first few appearances instead of stopping with 64, she'd be almost guaranteed at some point; provided Sakurai could overcome his seething hatred towards Kirby games he didn't direct.

The potential for an unique moveset is one of the best things about Ado in Smash. She could have been some sort of summoner and having a few paintbrush moves as well (perhaps her specials would be "summons" and her smash attacks would use the paintbrush). Oh well, the bold part means she wouldn't have any chance even if she was a regular character in the Kirby games.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Waddle Dee? I always felt that Kirby franchise is already perfect as it is with trifecta.

I agree, but Waddle Dee has been a semi-popular request in Japan for a long time. I mean I guess there's maybe Krystal and Toad, but that's about it in terms of first party newcomers. The only glaring omissions for me personally are K. Rool and Dixie, mainly because they both should have been playable by now. Toss Inkling in there and the roster is pretty much perfect, give or take a few characters.

 

[BGBW]

If any generic baddy is getting in first it'll be Goomba.

 

[Zubz]

I am not sure if I want him back without his Brawl voice clips ):

This is why we need voice packs.

If any generic baddy is getting in first it'll be Goomba.

But what about K. Rool?

Spoiler

That's a joke, I actually love the character, but I'm a sucker for low-hanging fruit. I'll see myself out.

 

[Dr. Buni]

That reminds of people suggesting a generic Space Pirate as Metroid's second (okay, third) rep in Smash 4.

This is why we need voice packs.

Voice packs would be neat.

 

[kirby_fox]

That reminds of people suggesting a generic Space Pirate as Metroid's second (okay, third) rep in Smash 4.

Voice packs would be neat.

Someone wanted one of the generic wasp enemies on one site, and legit voted for it. I don't remember which one, it was when I made that huge photoshop of potential choices for characters.

 

[Kjellson]

Just add Marx as a fourth Kirby character.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I want him back as well - it's just that your specific phrasing seemed a little...familiar.

It wasn't intentional. I think I'm infected now.

Yeah, me too. I am a "supporter" of them all Banjo & Kazooie's stage would probably be Spiral Mountain or Gruntilda's Lair, I think.

Ooooo. Gruntilda's Lair. That would be wicked.

 

[Ahnez]

Just add Marx as a fourth Kirby character.

A character creepier than Villager

Are you sure you want this?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Thinking of only 6 songs for a Banjo-Kazooie level is hard.

Banjo-Kazooie Medley: Remix, Main Theme, Grunty's Lair, Treasure Trove Cove, Gobi's Desert, Mad Monster Mansion, a touch of Rusty Bucket and ending with Click Clock Woods. Done by the king himself, Grant Kirkhope.
Click Clock Words Medley: Remix. A remix is the only way this perfect songs gets best represented, because all four versions need to be in the game with singing bees and bird sounds and parrot squawks. Again, Grant Kirkhope. I'm pretty sure this is one of his favorites.
Freezeezy Peak: Original
The Final Battle: Original
Hailfire Peaks (Fire Side): Original
Showdown Town: Original

There's just too many great songs to contain in 6 slots. This is one of those stages that needs like, ten billion songs to adequately rep the series. The Banjo Kazooie series is famous for its music, and the music of the series is as much a part of it as the characters and stages. Even Nuts n Bolts is no slouch for music. Was really close to putting Jiggoseum there, but Showdown Won because Jiggoseum has Hailfire in it already. Finding just one song from Tooie was hard too, and I didn't even get to include a Diddy Kong Racing song or Grunty's Revenge like I originally thought. Or even a song from the DS Viva Pinata! I couldn't even fit Spiral Mountain or Grunty's Theme or even the main theme of the series lol.

There's no way Banjo is ever getting into Smash... but it's always been a childhood dream of mine to have Banjo in Smash. Since Melee. If there was ever a game I can distinctly say I have most nostalgia for, it's Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Top of the Lair should definitely play in a Banjo-Kazooie stage. I would switch Freezeezy Peak for Rusty Bucket Bay also.

Oh and it is Banjo & KAZOOIE, stop ignoring her please.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Banjo-Land might work as a replacement for the Final Battle, just to rep even more stages.

Except it's nearly 7 minutes long lol.

Or use the remixed Mumbo's Mountain that is unused from Nuts n Bolts and a relic of the original remake of Banjo and Kazooie. And yet it sounds basically complete.

I remember reading something that Kirkhope had tears in his eyes when he left the recording studio for Nuts n Bolts for the last time, knowing this was the last time he would work on the series he helped shape the identity for. And I really get that feeling from the soundtrack, as it's one of his best and it's dripping with musical references and amazing medleys.

On an unrelated note, Nintendo sent out marketing emails about an hour ago advertising that Smash has DLC and check out the eShop.. They are going hard on DLC this last few weeks.

 

[IntelliHeath]

On an unrelated note, Nintendo sent out marketing emails about an hour ago advertising that Smash has DLC and check out the eShop.. They are going hard on DLC this last few weeks.

Yeah, it seem that they are pushing Smash Downloadable contents pretty hard. It actually made me wonder if Downloadable Contents wouldn't able to meet Nintendo's expectation with the sales?

 

[Neoxon]

Some guy on Reddit has a "tin-foil hat-tier" theory as to why we're being bombarded with advertisements for the previous Mii Costume wave on our Wii Us & emails.

Haven't you noticed how this package of costumes and stages has been shoved in your face recently? The e-shop, emails, tweets, and more lead me to believe this: this package is underselling, and Nintendo wants to sell as many as possible before new upcoming DLC arrives soon! I have my reasons to believe that this package is underselling as well. For starters, the most obvious reason is its lack of new fighters. Most people only go for the fighters anyway, so a pack of mii costumes and retro stages might not appeal. Secondly, this wave is the only one not announced in a Direct. Sure, we may have gotten little snippets of the new stages in the latest Smash Direct, but it was overshadowed by, you guessed it, the new characters. Since Directs generate a lot more viewers, hype, and publicity, a wave not shown in a Direct is one not as hyped and widespread. But you may be asking, how does underselling DLC tie into the recent marketing push for it? It's simple: new DLC is releasing very soon that will overshadow this costume wave! After all, wouldn't Nintendo want to make as much money as possible on previous packages before moving on to something greater???
TL;DR: Nintendo is heavily advertising older DLC because new content is coming soon that will overshadow the current waves

 

[IntelliHeath]

Some guy on Reddit has a "tin-foil hat-tier" theory as to why we're being bombarded with advertisements for the previous Mii Costume wave on our Wii Us & emails.

Look like that I'm not only one that felt that way.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The previous pack not doing well makes sense. Was barely advertised, doesn't have any fighters, and are just two old stages. The stages aren't comp viable either. They weren't in Melee either, so that's a generation that might be too young to remember it.

Really only appeals to people who either want to own everything or have 64 nostalgia.

The Mii costumes still have the issue of "there's nobody to show these off to" because of the FG Mii ban. Also a lot of people may have taken these costumes the wrong way, being bitter the fighter they voted for got downgraded to a Mii costume.

Dreamland was an extremely popular stage from two previous Smash games, is very comp viable (often considered one of the most balanced in the series) and came in a patch with multiple fighters, so probably got a lot of sales from people caught up in the hype.

They really need to try and get fighters into updates. Even if it's just Pichu or whatever. Fighters bring people to the shop and from there they make other purchases. Use clones to get people in, if they can't work on proper fighters consistently.

Next time, don't release news about your DLC on the Twitter page of NoJ. Not the best marketing strategy.

 

[Zubz]

Some guy on Reddit has a "tin-foil hat-tier" theory as to why we're being bombarded with advertisements for the previous Mii Costume wave on our Wii Us & emails.

Most of the ads I've seen haven't been for that last pack, though. Between Facebook and Twitter, I've seen one for Ryu, one for Ryu and Lucas, and one for all 3 characters and the costumes that came out in June (I explicitly remember it because I've seen a different "Izzat Akira?" post each time that one's shown up). Meanwhile, I haven't seen any ads for the DLC being discussed. Which further proves the Reddit guy's/Ballad's point about it not being advertised at all, but not that it's the reason we're seeing all these ads.

I'm bullheaded, though. I still think they slapped old ads over the new ones they were going to show at PAX before delaying the content.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Most of the ads I've seen haven't been for that last pack, though. Between Facebook and Twitter, I've seen one for Ryu, one for Ryu and Lucas, and one for all 3 characters and the costumes that came out in June (I explicitly remember it because I've seen a different "Izzat Akira?" post each time that one's shown up). Meanwhile, I haven't seen any ads for the DLC being discussed. Which further proves the Reddit guy's/Ballad's point about it not being advertised at all, but not that it's the reason we're seeing all these ads.

I'm bullheaded, though. I still think they slapped old ads over the new ones they were going to show at PAX before delaying the content.

The most recent email blast they sent out today, was for the late July update. That's the ad that sparked that thread.

 

[Regulus Tera]

And in today's "my dad works at Nintendo or so" rumours:

It sounded plausible until the second post.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Uh. Does Japan even care about Waddle Dee?

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Lack of moveset potential is literally the least of K. Rool's worries.

OMG DKCR3 CONFIRMED!!

 

[kirby_fox]

Most of the ads I've seen haven't been for that last pack, though. Between Facebook and Twitter, I've seen one for Ryu, one for Ryu and Lucas, and one for all 3 characters and the costumes that came out in June (I explicitly remember it because I've seen a different "Izzat Akira?" post each time that one's shown up). Meanwhile, I haven't seen any ads for the DLC being discussed. Which further proves the Reddit guy's/Ballad's point about it not being advertised at all, but not that it's the reason we're seeing all these ads.

I'm bullheaded, though. I still think they slapped old ads over the new ones they were going to show at PAX before delaying the content.

I've only seen ones that have the new fighters or are coupled with a bunch of costumes for Miis. I have a crazier theory...

- The original plan was to have DLC with a character out every two months starting with Mewtwo. That would give us April, June, August, and October before the ballot ended. This would give us 4 new characters throughout the year.

- Something happened. I'm guessing they saw the leaks, had the characters done and thought releasing them at E3 would garner more sales than sitting on them for months.

- As a result, this caused more issues for the team since they had not planned having to support the game in a tighter span of time. Fans are now expecting more characters than originally planned before the ballot even ends.

- This has lead to two results: 1) they are now having to quickly put together things in order to create support for the game. This lead to less people focusing on free updates like the tournament mode, and instead focusing on creating costumes or characters. 2) They have no characters planned besides what we got, and are simply moving forward early ballot characters to release at the end of the year. This will leave a gap in DLC filled with easy-made costumes of fan favorites.

- If we follow pattern 1-- the team is actually giving us more than what they had originally planned. This could mean we're going to get more DLC characters and stages- however, they will be fairly simple. This almost guarantees cut vets that can be ported from Brawl.

- If we follow pattern 2-- the team is going to be giving us Mii costumes as replacements for expected DLC. This will likely disappoint a lot of fans expecting more characters since we got the random three dropped.

How does this connect to the current ad promo? Marketing had already planned for characters to be released in late August as that was the original date planned. The ads were simply changed as much as they could (I've seen a TON of Ryu related ones personally, making me think Ryu was probably the one releasing in August with Roy originally hitting in October).

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Alright guys, which one of you is this?

the icon makes me think it's dril's mother

 

[Boss Doggie]

you know what would make a better add-on over Wolf?

Shirtless Wolf.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Some guy on Reddit has a "tin-foil hat-tier" theory as to why we're being bombarded with advertisements for the previous Mii Costume wave on our Wii Us & emails.

As I said before, if they want the Mii costumes to sell more, they should patch the game allowing Mii Fighters to be used in online matches (For Fun/For Glory). As it is now, there's little reason to spend money on Mii costumes, I think. I only really bought the Inkling and K. Rool costumes to "show there's interest on the characters".

Anyways, hopefully

Spoiler

Shovel Knight

new content will be announced soon indeed.

Uh. Does Japan even care about Waddle Dee?

Supposedly Bandana Dee is one of the most requested characters in Japan along K. Rools, Dixies and a few others.

 

[PK Gaming]

you know what would make a better add-on over Wolf?

Shirtless Wolf.

I just wanna say your current avatar is amazing

I'm not into the bara furry thing, but Buff God Tyrantrum is just incredible

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Uh. Does Japan even care about Waddle Dee?

Japan is the reason we're even homoring his inclusion. He's apparently one of the most requested in Japan.

I've only seen ones that have the new fighters or are coupled with a bunch of costumes for Miis. I have a crazier theory...

- The original plan was to have DLC with a character out every two months starting with Mewtwo. That would give us April, June, August, and October before the ballot ended. This would give us 4 new characters throughout the year.

- Something happened. I'm guessing they saw the leaks, had the characters done and thought releasing them at E3 would garner more sales than sitting on them for months.

- As a result, this caused more issues for the team since they had not planned having to support the game in a tighter span of time. Fans are now expecting more characters than originally planned before the ballot even ends.

- This has lead to two results: 1) they are now having to quickly put together things in order to create support for the game. This lead to less people focusing on free updates like the tournament mode, and instead focusing on creating costumes or characters. 2) They have no characters planned besides what we got, and are simply moving forward early ballot characters to release at the end of the year. This will leave a gap in DLC filled with easy-made costumes of fan favorites.

- If we follow pattern 1-- the team is actually giving us more than what they had originally planned. This could mean we're going to get more DLC characters and stages- however, they will be fairly simple. This almost guarantees cut vets that can be ported from Brawl.

- If we follow pattern 2-- the team is going to be giving us Mii costumes as replacements for expected DLC. This will likely disappoint a lot of fans expecting more characters since we got the random three dropped.

How does this connect to the current ad promo? Marketing had already planned for characters to be released in late August as that was the original date planned. The ads were simply changed as much as they could (I've seen a TON of Ryu related ones personally, making me think Ryu was probably the one releasing in August with Roy originally hitting in October).

I actually think all four characters were planned for E3, but the Club Nintendo ending thing caused them to need to prioritize Mewtwo and release him (rushed) earlier.

I think the real reason that DLC seems to have slowed down is because of Iwata. Sakurai wants to say it's not affecting him or his team's work, but it must have. He had such an impact on Sakurai and the Smash series, none of them probably took his death lightly. For a few weeks there in August morale must have been at an all time low.

It's pretty evident a DLC Direct was planned for the second batch as well. The Mii costumes had a trailer that felt ripped right from a Direct. They may have even had a character planned that the week or two delay from Iwata's death caused to be pushed out a bit (to September). The last patch felt rushed and sort of just "thrown together." Peach's Castle is missing music, and the music of the stages is messed up in Sound Test and out of order compared to older DLC which is properly placed. The fact that it was announced on NoJ's Twitter and only briefly mentioned by NoE (and ignored by NoA) really felt... off. Like nobody really even knew what was going on.

I think that Reddit dude is on point with them pushing older packs now, so the new DLC doesn't cause sales to end of the older DLC. I think the anniversary is the next "proper" DLC, and the late July pack was just a bonus sort of thing.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Well we have Character Pack 1 if it makes any sense.

Speaking of which, does that pack include Suzaku Castle?

I just wanna say your current avatar is amazing

I'm not into the bara furry thing, but Buff God Tyrantrum is just incredible

*kemobara, there's a difference!

Also if you want

(I didn't draw it of course)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Well we have Character Pack 1 if it makes any sense.

Speaking of which, does that pack include Suzaku Castle?

Yes, otherwise there would be no way to get it if you bought that pack. Also I'm pretty sure the game assumes you have the stage with Ryu for 3DS Classic Mode, so I'm not sure how that would work if you lacked the stage.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I've always felt Parasol Waddle Dee would be a hilarious joke character.

Peach's Castle is missing music

Huh?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Huh?

Every DLC stage has 6 songs. Peach's Castle has 5. It seems likely Overworld from SMB was cut (Mushroom Kingdom from Melee), for whatever reason.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Every DLC stage has 6 songs. Peach's Castle has 5. It seems likely Overworld from SMB was cut (Mushroom Kingdom from Melee), for whatever reason.

Patterns are one thing but it's not like we were ever promised six songs, although I guess it is weird the SMB1 theme isn't with the other NES Mario themes.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Patterns are one thing but it's not like we were ever promised six songs, although I guess it is weird the SMB1 theme isn't with the other NES Mario themes.

Peach's Castle is worth less than the other DLC stages because it lacks as much content as the others. Except it's priced the same, making it less of a value than the others.

I don't think the 3DS stages should be priced the same as the Wii U ones for this reason as well. They just don't come with as much content.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If anyone doubts Inklings will be in as either DLC or Smash 5, Splatoon is on track to outsell Smash 4 Wii U in Japan.

In 14 weeks, Splatoon is beating Smash 4 Wii U's 14 week sales in Japan.

 

[Neoxon]

If anyone doubts Inklings will be in as either DLC or Smash 5, Splatoon is on track to outsell Smash 4 Wii U in Japan.

In 14 weeks, Splatoon is beating Smash 4 Wii U's 14 week sales in Japan.

I don't think any of us doubted the Inklings' chances to get in Smash eventually, but this is just icing on the cake. Is Smash normally bigger in the West than it is in Japan?

 

[Ryce]

Is Smash normally bigger in the West than it is in Japan?

Much bigger.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Much bigger.

Which is funny how Japanese-centric the roster is. This game we managed to get a couple of bones tossed at us with Little Mac and Duck Hunt, but still, very much Japanese based. DLC seems to be mostly Japanese based as well, being vet heavy, two of which are Japanese only characters.

Diddy still remains the only non-Japanese character. Although other than the DKC crew, I think only Dark Samus is the only other non-Japanese character they could potentially even add. Nintendo doesn't have a lot of development outside of Japan, especially on new IPs and characters.

Companies like Next Level Games and Retro make games, but they're using older, Japanese developed IP. Actually, I think NLG and Retro are the only two non-Japanese companies making Nintendo games big enough to be in Smash.

 

[Dr. Buni]

If anyone doubts Inklings will be in as either DLC or Smash 5, Splatoon is on track to outsell Smash 4 Wii U in Japan.

In 14 weeks, Splatoon is beating Smash 4 Wii U's 14 week sales in Japan.

If there's a character that is a "shoe-in" for Smash, it is the Inklings. I don't think I ever saw someone saying they don't have any chances.

 

[thechristoph]

Which is funny how Japanese-centric the roster is.

Other than what you've mentioned, what western-created Nintendo characters even exist?

 

[Russ T]

Other than what you've mentioned, what western-created Nintendo characters even exist?

Yeah, there aren't many. Seems a bit disingenuous to call the roster "Japan-centric" when, well, of course it is, Nintendo is Japan-centric.

Suppose they could pull in the Startropics kid? Maybe something from Battalion Wars? Ah geez I dunno. Problem is even if there are Western-developed Nintendo IPs, they're very rarely big enough to warrant inclusion.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Other than what you've mentioned, what western-created Nintendo characters even exist?

Krystal, forgot about her.

Other than that, not really anyone notable. Just the DKC family, Krystal and Dark Samus.

And a bunch of random nobodies like the robots from Strikers, Rundas, General Scales and Krunch. Probably some smaller eShop games I'm forgetting.

Western devs use Nintendo IPs well, but they never really get the chance to create new ones. All the western characters are just side characters or villains from already established Japanese series. Diddy and Dixie are the only ones that have ever been main characters.

Every company I thought was North American based ended up being Japanese. Genius Sonority, Dimps and Camelot. I had thought they weren't Japanese, but all three are.

So yea, Next Level Games and Retro holding up the Nintendo western front. And NLG isn't even owned by Nintendo.

Maybe something from Battalion Wars? Ah geez I dunno. Problem is even if there are Western-developed Nintendo IPs, they're very rarely big enough to warrant inclusion.

BW isn't even a Western IP. Just another game in the Nintendo Wars series.

 

[Russ T]

BW isn't even a Western IP. Just another game in the Nintendo Wars series.

I know, but it was a western-developed game. Shrug.

Other than that, not really anyone notable. Just the DKC family, Krystal and Dark Samus.

These are people that shouldn't be in Smash, anyway, so good job Nintendo.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Dark Samus is literally the only hope for a rep the Metroid series has.

I know, but it was a western-developed game. Shrug.

I didn't know this until you brought the game up. It would explain why the character designs and writing didn't have the same feeling as Advance Wars.

 

[BGBW]

Eddy from Fluidity

 

[Boss Doggie]

B-but Anthony Higgs!

 

[balladofwindfishes]

B-but Anthony Higgs!

In a different universe where Other M was better received and sold better, Adam 100% would have been in Smash 4.

Like, no question in my mind at all, if the game was better, he would have been in.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Good thing Other M wasn't well received, because Adam as a character is 100% literal garbage.

 

[Golnei]

Good thing Other M wasn't well received, because Adam as a character is 100% literal garbage.

He was an okay computer, I guess?

Dark Samus is literally the only hope for a rep the Metroid series has.

A regular Metroid will be playable before Dark Samus.

Really, unless Metroid Prime 4 manages to become an unprecedented success and turn Sylux into a beloved icon, I think the Metroid series is essentially set for playable characters for all foreseeable future games. The series doesn't lend itself to fostering recurring, viable Smash Bros. characters; and forcing them to represent the franchise further at the expense of more appropriate choices in a ballooning roster is a waste of resources.

Though it'd be much easier to accept that it if Metroid's non-playable representation was better - its enemies and assist trophies are basically all SSB4 got right.

 

[Russ T]

The series doesn't lend itself to fostering recurring, viable Smash Bros. characters

Well except for Ridley, tho.

 

[Golnei]

Well except for Ridley, tho.

Viable.