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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot

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IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
If anyone doubts Inklings will be in as either DLC or Smash 5, Splatoon is on track to outsell Smash 4 Wii U in Japan.

In 14 weeks, Splatoon is beating Smash 4 Wii U's 14 week sales in Japan.

It's not really surprising that Splatoon is going to out-sell Smash Wii U. There is no doubt that Inkling would be in the game but it's just matter of when. When I'm going to host Smash 5 Prediction Contest, I actually expect to see like 80% or higher for Inkling.
 

Dr. Buni

Member
Ridley is never going to be playable, unfortunately.

The thing is that even assuming Metroid Prime 4 ever becomes a thing and that Sylux have a major role in the game, I still can't see it being added to Smash's roster.
 

jph139

Member
In a different universe where Other M was better received and sold better, Adam 100% would have been in Smash 4.

Like, no question in my mind at all, if the game was better, he would have been in.

Yup - I can imagine Sakurai looking at him, thinking about the absolute bomb, and throwing him in the trash.

I'm feeling the same way about Federation Force as well. It feels like a way to expand the Metroid universe with new playable characters, but with all of the backlash Nintendo is probably reconsidering that approach.

A chibi Trooper with a Blast Ball mech Final Smash would be cool though. I'd be on board.
 

Golnei

Member
The thing is that even assuming Metroid Prime 4 ever becomes a thing and that Sylux have a major role in the game, I still can't see it being added to Smash's roster.

If Tanabe's to be believed; they're the future of the Metroid series - Federation Force is just leading up to the culmination of Samus and Sylux's tragic, erotic and violent affair in Prime 4. Being added to SSB5 would be similar to Rosalina in that regard, riding off a wave of relatively recent prominence as they're promoted from a supporting character to the series' main cast.

Federation Force is going nowhere and none of the Hunters characters will ever be seen again
 
I could see Prime 4 focusing on the pirates efforts to try and rebuild Metroid Prime and Dark Samus in a post-Phazon galaxy and Sylux appears somewhere. This would put Metroid in a position to have Dark Samus AND Sylux added, giving Metroid two more deserved characters.

If Sylux appeared in a second Prime game, one of the main ones, he'd instantly jump up to being a good pick for Smash. Right now he's one hunter of a bunch of other hunters and Hunters isn't really a "proper" Metroid game anyway.

I wouldn't even mind if they focus the entire Metroid series around the Prime universe, even making a side scroller out of the same world. It's a better crafted world with more unique species and locations. The "main" Metroid series has only really ever had two locations (Zebes and that other planet), just either revisited or re-purposed as a simulation of the environment.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Which is funny how Japanese-centric the roster is. This game we managed to get a couple of bones tossed at us with Little Mac and Duck Hunt, but still, very much Japanese based. DLC seems to be mostly Japanese based as well, being vet heavy, two of which are Japanese only characters.

Diddy still remains the only non-Japanese character. Although other than the DKC crew, I think only Dark Samus is the only other non-Japanese character they could potentially even add. Nintendo doesn't have a lot of development outside of Japan, especially on new IPs and characters.

I always found it weird that people are being obsessed with how Japanese centric the roster is. It actually don't matter because that's where the company founded in and started their video game business. Nintendo don't really have any western company working for them until Radical Entertainment and Rare Ltd.

Yeah, Nintendo is a Japanese company with few western IP so no one argued about that. What you implied that roster is Japanese-Centric is completely wrong. Most of the characters actually have world-wide appeals to the audience. In fact, some games actually sold better in Western.

I think we should try to avoid to labeling the roster, "Japanese Centric" because it's nonsense due to the fact that Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Wii Fit, Animal Crossing, etc actually have world wide appeals. I'm not sure about Metroid but I think Metroid, Duck Hunt and Punch Out are really popular in Western than they actually are in Japan.

My perspective is early Fire Emblem characters and Mother 3 characters are only Japanese-Centric characters that made in the roster; which are Roy, Marth, and Lucas.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
It'll probably happen after Sakurai leaves the series. But it'll definitely happen someday, regardless.

If Project M team struggled to make Ridley work in the game without breaking the game then I don't think anyone would.

Ridley would have a chance to become playable character only if new game in Metroid actually have different design for Ridley, and it actually fit in Smash Bros. I know some people would be furious about it if they didn't get classic Ridley.
 

Russ T

Banned
If Project M team struggled to make Ridley work in the game without breaking the game then I don't think anyone would.

u wot now

Sorry, I think it's patently absurd to compare a professional game development studio's ability to implement a character to a fan-made mod, no matter how good that mod might be...
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
u wot now

Sorry, I think it's patently absurd to compare a professional game development studio's ability to implement a character to a fan-made mod, no matter how good that mod might be...

No, I'm using that as example to point out how difficult it is to make Ridley as playable character. Take a look at what Sakurai said about Ridley in few articles so If Ridley didn't have awkward proportion then he would have better chance to become playable character. I'm pretty sure that Sakurai tried to input Ridley in the past.
 

Golnei

Member
Right, Ridley.

There's no insurmountable technical barrier preventing him from getting in - that's been argued time and time again - but what's even more apparent is that he will never be playable as long as Sakurai directs the series. It's clear that he sees Ridley as an important aspect of Metroid, seeing as he's been included in every game since 64; but the constant relegation to various non-playable roles and the explicit confirmation that he feels a playable role would not suit the character suggests that won't translate into ever making the roster. And Ridley isn't really anywhere near notable enough to be a mandatory or heavily suggested inclusion from outside sources - he'll probably have even less of a role in future hypothetical Smash games not directed by Sakurai.

I wouldn't even mind if they focus the entire Metroid series around the Prime universe, even making a side scroller out of the same world. It's a better crafted world with more unique species and locations. The "main" Metroid series has only really ever had two locations (Zebes and that other planet), just either revisited or re-purposed as a simulation of the environment.

The 2D Metroid 'universe' is indistinct enough that they can largely be reconciled - the Prime-influenced aesthetics of Chozodia being an example - though I agree that the Prime series' method of worldbuilding and ethos behind always introducing new locations is far superior to the formula of 'Zebes, SR388 and a bunch of space stations'.

Higgs did a lot more than Adam though, also people tend to like him.

Anthony is really more of a 'lesser evil' kind of situation. If he were in Prime 3, he'd have been lumped in with the other bland but largely inoffensive NPCs. Though he is the aspect of Other M which I'd be least opposed to being acknowledged in future games, along with the Metroid hairpins (that should have been in Style Savvy).

If Project M team struggled to make Ridley work in the game without breaking the game then I don't think anyone would.

Project M team? Wasn't it just one unaffiliated guy doing most of the work, with some minor animation touchups from a single PM animator?

And issues with proportions and animation are a given, considering he's working off ripped, altered Other M models and animations, not original work. Professional developers could easily use that template to create a viable Ridley - he's impossible for completely different reasons.

HQnLKXU.png
 

Russ T

Banned
No, I'm using that as example to point out how difficult it is to make Ridley as playable character. Take a look at what Sakurai said about Ridley in few articles so If Ridley didn't have awkward proportion then he would have better chance to become playable character. I'm pretty sure that Sakurai tried to input Ridley in the past.

Well, the way you phrased it implied Project M was the be-all end-all of implementing characters...

At any rate, I don't for a second believe it can't be done. I fully believe it's a challenging proposition. It's just a matter of desire to overcome that challenge.

There's no insurmountable technical barrier preventing him from getting in - that's been argued time and time again - but what's even more apparent is that he will never be playable as long as Sakurai directs the series. It's clear that he sees Ridley as an important aspect of Metroid, seeing as he's been included in every game since 64; but the constant relegation to various non-playable roles and the explicit confirmation that he feels a playable role would not suit the character suggests that won't translate into ever making the roster. And Ridley isn't really anywhere near notable enough to be a mandatory or heavily suggested inclusion from outside sources - he'll probably have even less of a role in future hypothetical Smash games not directed by Sakurai.

No, that I agree with! Well, the part about Sakurai, anyway. I said as much in some follow-up posts. Sorry, I didn't really expect this to turn into a big thing, so I didn't think it worth fully explaining my thought process. I was just being silly. :D

Dunno if I agree that he's not notable enough. At the very least, he's the second biggest character in the Metroid universe. I suppose if they continue Not Making Metroid, then yeah, he wouldn't ever be important enough.

(Kinda like K Rool (except obviously better), who hasn't been in anything for a long time, and hopefully never will be.)

EDIT: I should also, I guess, point out that I'm not a huge fan of Metroid. I like the games I've played well enough, but I have no great passion for the series. I just think Ridley would be a cool character to play as. :D
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
he's impossible for completely different reasons.

There is no way that we would know why he wouldn't able to become playable character. It might be one/few of those reasons, balance issues, proportion, moveset, etc. Also it could be because he's too big. :p

Well, the way you phrased it implied Project M was the be-all end-all of implementing characters...

At any rate, I don't for a second believe it can't be done. I fully believe it's a challenging proposition. It's just a matter of desire to overcome that challenge.

Yeah, I should have explain more so it was completely my fault.
 
I think the dudes from Federation Force are more likely than Ridley, Dark Samus or any named character among the Hunters or Other M's marines.
 
In a different universe where Other M was better received and sold better, Adam 100% would have been in Smash 4.

Like, no question in my mind at all, if the game was better, he would have been in.

I really don't think so. He's still ultimately a character that's made like, one or two (if you count the AI in Fusion) game appearances in the Metroid series as a whole and probably will never appear as a physical human being again due to what happened near the end of Other M's story.

Maybe he or Anthony could of been an assist trophy, though.
 
I really don't think so. He's still ultimately a character that's made like, one or two (if you count the AI in Fusion) game appearances in the Metroid series as a whole and probably will never appear as a physical human being again due to what happened near the end of Other M.

Maybe he or Anthony could of been an assist trophy, though.

It wouldn't really be much different than Sheik in Melee.

This is assuming that Other M was a better game and not the worst game in the series both critically and commercially.

Although, even given Other M's badness, I was surprised Anthony wasn't an Assist Trophy. Or even a regular trophy. Which is really strange since that random forgettable machine boss got a trophy. Actually, looking at the trophies for Metroid, they're all terrible lol. Brawl's were a million times better. All the hunters, a few Prime trophies, some suits. A lot better than 99% model rips from Other M of random characters and then a recycled Prime trophy from Brawl. If they were recyling Brawl trophies, why doesn't the 3DS have the Hunter and Fusion trophies from Brawl? Considering they're handheld games. Instead the 3DS has... junk and the worst gravity suit in the series.
 

Dr. Buni

Member
Sheik has the fact she is Zelda transformed going for her. Plus, she comes from the most popular/well known Zelda game. Though her inclusion in Melee was a bit weird anyways.

Adam is just a character that no one seem to like from a game that very few people seem to like. I have even read stuff like people using Adam (computer)'s presence in Fusion as a negative point against the game lol. So even if Other M was a better and more well received game, it is hard to picture him being popular enough to warrant a spot in Smash. I find easier to picture Anthony Higgs being playable even.
 
It wouldn't really be much different than Sheik in Melee.

This is assuming that Other M was a better game and not the worst game in the series both critically and commercially.

Although, even given Other M's badness, I was surprised Anthony wasn't an Assist Trophy. Or even a regular trophy. Which is really strange since that random forgettable machine boss got a trophy.

The thing about Sheik is that she's the alter ego of the second most important character in the Legend of Zelda and also its name sake. She mainly got into Melee as a component of Zelda, and is essentially a carry over from the days Smash had transformation based characters. She would of never been added as her own character slot in Melee. A similar thing with Zero Suit Samus, really.

Someone like Adam is a completely different and unrelated character from Samus, while ZSS is her alter ego, basically. In general, I believe the only character playable in Smash who's

A. made only one game appearance
B. wasn't the protagonist of their own game (Lucas, Ness, Shulk, etc)
C. wasn't apart of an already important character in a previous game (ZZS, Sheik)

would have to be Dark Pit. But he was an alternate costume who happened to become his own character slot alongside Doc and Lucina for various reasons. If not for that, he would of not been playable on his own.
 
(Kinda like K Rool (except obviously better), who hasn't been in anything for a long time, and hopefully never will be.)

Jesus Christ can you be any more of a passive aggressive jerk

Like is it some physical compulsion you have to not let a single opportunity to bash Rool go by without taking it?

I'm bookmarking this post so I can laugh at you whenever K. Rool comes back so ya
 
I always felt people were really too hard on K. Rool.

I mean yeah, it's one thing to not expect him to be in Smash due to not having an important role in the DK series for a long awhile, but down right wanting the guy to stay dead and buried and to never be in Smash is just rather...K. Rool (get it?)

If he gets a revival between Smash 4 and 5 I could definitely seeing him in the running, yes.
 
I wonder why Retro cloned K Rool to lead the Snowmads, rather than just having K Rool in viking gear.

Frederik is the exact same character, and literally nothing about Tropical Freeze would have changed if it was K Rool. There's no reason he can't lead an army of penguins and walruses instead of crocodiles. He already led an army that had beavers, vultures and bees...
 

Dr. Buni

Member
Jesus Christ can you be any more of a passive aggressive jerk

Like is it some physical compulsion you have to not let a single opportunity to bash Rool go by without taking it?

I'm bookmarking this post so I can laugh at you whenever K. Rool comes back so ya
Geez, you are too sensitive about K. Rool.

If there's one thing I learned about SmashGAF is that being annoyed at someone bashing a character won't stop them from keep on bashing the character.
If he gets a revival between Smash 4 and 5 I could definitely seeing him in the running, yes.
I am thinking his bests chances of a revival is exactly in Smash.
 

Russ T

Banned
Jesus Christ can you be any more of a passive aggressive jerk

Like is it some physical compulsion you have to not let a single opportunity to bash Rool go by without taking it?

I'm bookmarking this post so I can laugh at you whenever K. Rool comes back so ya

Haha I was just joshin' around. No malice intended!

I believe I've stated before that I'm not averse to his inclusion, by any stretch. I would never vote for him, but I think it'd be cool for all his fans to finally get some recompense.

Sorry. ):
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah it is weird there is no anthony higgs trophy

Anthony is really more of a 'lesser evil' kind of situation. If he were in Prime 3, he'd have been lumped in with the other bland but largely inoffensive NPCs. Though he is the aspect of Other M which I'd be least opposed to being acknowledged in future games, along with the Metroid hairpins (that should have been in Style Savvy).

metroid hairpins? wat

also Higgs could be cool, like he has a jetpack and fires ice beams! and one of his taunts is flipping the visor!
 
Everyone bashes Pichu, my one true love. ;_;

Not really. He actually has surprising support, especially in the last month or so.

What I think happened was...
1. People came to terms with Snake and Ice Climbers not returning. This left Pichu in second place for vets behind Wolf by default. Because those other two poke-guys nobody even remembers were in Smash.
2. People saw Roy work out so well as a semi-clone, meaning the old arguments about Roy and Pichu being useless and boring hold no weight anymore.
3. He's the last clone not in Smash 4 and the last character to never leave Melee. This is fairly significant.

He's starting to get a fair bit of support in Japan, and I've been noticing Pichu topics almost daily popping up on Reddit.

I wouldn't really doubt at all that Pichu stands a decent chance of being DLC. He's the most likely in line behind Wolf, at least as far as vets go. And since DLC has mostly been vets so far, I don't see that changing going forward.
 

Sponge

Banned
I wonder why Retro cloned K Rool to lead the Snowmads, rather than just having K Rool in viking gear.

Frederik is the exact same character, and literally nothing about Tropical Freeze would have changed if it was K Rool. There's no reason he can't lead an army of penguins and walruses instead of crocodiles. He already led an army that had beavers, vultures and bees...

Part of me believes it's not Retro but Tanabe or Miyamoto that is restricting use of the Kremlings. I don't have anything to back that up with though.
 
Haha I was just joshin' around. No malice intended!

I believe I've stated before that I'm not averse to his inclusion, by any stretch. I would never vote for him, but I think it'd be cool for all his fans to finally get some recompense.

Sorry. ):

Okay thanks for that at least :)

With Ridley Sakurai has to go before he'll be added. People like to say that he just needs to get a design that's not a pain to animate to be added in Metroid, but thing is that Other M Ridley, ugly as he was, WAS that design. And he still got turned into a boss cuz 'hurr durr he must have big wings and fly permanently.'
 

Russ T

Banned
and that's why DKC3 sucks, along with the idea of Diddy replacement

Frankly, DK's replacement in DKC2 pisses me off more. He is one of my favorite Nintendo characters, but I've never been a fan of any other characters from the Rare universe. Games are great to play, of course (and that music, yum, yum), but... ):
 
I wonder why Retro cloned K Rool to lead the Snowmads, rather than just having K Rool in viking gear.

Frederik is the exact same character, and literally nothing about Tropical Freeze would have changed if it was K Rool. There's no reason he can't lead an army of penguins and walruses instead of crocodiles. He already led an army that had beavers, vultures and bees...
Yeah, I was really hoping I would get to the end of Tropical Freeze and find out that Frederik was secretly K. Rool in disguise. It would have been a really epic revival, and even could have included a sequel hook for DKCR3 with K. Rool building a Kremling ermy behind the scenes.

K. Rool is in such a weird situation. His absence from the Returns games seems to indicate that Nintendo doesn't want to use him, but he also made a completely random appearance in Mario Baseball. I don't exactly expect him to show up as character DLC for this, unless he does really really well on the poll, but I feel like he has to show back up in the DK series eventually. And at that point his Smash newcomer trailer is only a matter of time.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Frankly, DK's replacement in DKC2 pisses me off more. He is one of my favorite Nintendo characters, but I've never been a fan of any other characters from the Rare universe. Games are great to play, of course (and that music, yum, yum), but... ):

DK's kidnapping along with Diddy (and Dixie) stepping up to the plate as heroes are DKC2's biggest draws. The entire experience is hella memorable because of that.
 

Russ T

Banned
DK's kidnapping along with Diddy (and Dixie) stepping up to the plate as heroes are DKC2's biggest draws. The entire experience is hella memorable because of that.

I can't say I have any concern for the story of the DKC games. I just wanna play as my man DK!

He's rad.

I do get that that's what some people like, though, which is why my opinion is so often at odds with other fans of DKC.
 
Yeah, I was really hoping I would get to the end of Tropical Freeze and find out that Frederik was secretly K. Rool in disguise. It would have been a really epic revival, and even could have included a sequel hook for DKCR3 with K. Rool building a Kremling ermy behind the scenes.

K. Rool is in such a weird situation. His absence from the Returns games seems to indicate that Nintendo doesn't want to use him, but he also made a completely random appearance in Mario Baseball. I don't exactly expect him to show up as character DLC for this, unless he does really really well on the poll, but I feel like he has to show back up in the DK series eventually. And at that point his Smash newcomer trailer is only a matter of time.

The fact he got a DLC costume is pretty significant I'd say. There's only a handful that have been made of actual characters, Nintendo ones at least, and it seems pretty left field of all the characters they make first they make a K.Rool one, especially since he's a western character and has been underutilised in the last decade. His support goes all the way back to Melee - same with Dixie, and his supporters have always been pretty vigilant.

I still think that he has a shot. The Mii outfit doesn't mean much since Samus and a couple of other playable characters have Mii outfits too. The Mii outfit also gives us an idea of what he would actually look like in Smash 4's style...heck, maybe a model's already been worked on and they used that to translate into his Mii outfit to test the waters or something.

But it's annoying how much Nintendo's Japanese studios and developers kinda turn their nose up at western character designs and concepts, even though largely they are quite ugly or don't compare to the Japanese style in their execution, but Rare characters like Dixie and K.Rool are still quite memorable. They're not overdesigned - and over the years when other teams have took over managing them they've redesigned them slightly anyway to better merge with their other properties.

I do think that the DKC country games while unique at the time do look terrible, especially nowadays. They aren't as timeless in artstyle as you see in games like Yoshi's Island or Mario World, and in the same vein, seeing Killer Instinct next to Street Fighter II, but they were still experimenting with things the guys overseas were too reluctant to try.

I kinda went off on a tangent there, but I do hold a special place in my heart for Rare's characters that were left in custody of Nintendo like Dixie, K.Rool, Krystal et cetera. There's lots of support for them here and consistently has been, and whenever we see poll results it seems Japanese fans are the same!

I think it might just be Nintendo themselves steering clear of any Rareware association altogether after the split, but since Retro are a western studio you'd imagine they'd be less inclined to ignore Rare's input to the franchise and listen to fans (which they did - revisiting the music in TF) but I guess they just wanted to try something fresh and have their own chance to contribute to the universe, which is fair enough really. Would definitely be nice to see K.Rool in a third game by them though since I'm sure he's itching for revenge on the Kongs by now.
 

Azure J

Member
Other than what you've mentioned, what western-created Nintendo characters even exist?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, there aren't many. Seems a bit disingenuous to call the roster "Japan-centric" when, well, of course it is, Nintendo is Japan-centric.

Suppose they could pull in the Startropics kid? Maybe something from Battalion Wars? Ah geez I dunno. Problem is even if there are Western-developed Nintendo IPs, they're very rarely big enough to warrant inclusion.

Made alongside Punch-Out by Genkyo Takeda.

Aaaaaand, I'm late to post a reply again it seems.
 
Retro's CEO is literally following the K. Rool for Smash Twitter account haha

They will probably put in Kremlings next game or so, they just wanted to show they can make cool--pun intended--enemies first, and had to redo it after Country Returns because nobody liked their tikis :p
 
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