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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot

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B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Red Arremer said:
Might just be a poorly compressed picture. Undo the calamity that is your mammaries, lads, for it's just as likely that it's nothing.

I like how this is the second time today I used "undo the calamity that is your mammaries"
Click to expand...
That doesn't fix the stage select screen not working like that

If this was a 4chan leak, it would have been shot down already

Zubz said:
The menus for this game are just a mess, anyway. I doubt anything's being hidden here. We might just get Mario Maker this month, then Wolf or whatever next month.
Click to expand...
The stages aren't added by hand, it's an automatic process, so it doesn't really matter how much of a mess the menus are. The map tile would be centered.

Even the 3DS automatically centers the stages.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Awesome stage based on an awesome game, but can't help but think it's silly that we now have two Mario stages that are partially 1 to 1 recreations of New Super Mario Bros. U 1-1's visuals.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Red Arremer said:
Do you have the piece of the code that says it can't work that way? If so, please show it to me.
And have you considered they might just put it that way so they don't have to rearrange it in case they release another stage?



Source?
Click to expand...
I don't need the code to know how every other DLC has lined up. Not even DLC, the stock maps also are always centered.

It would be impossible for it to not be automatic. The game has no idea what stages you unlock in what order or what DLC you own. It's not going to hand make a set up for every single combination. They don't even need to bother rearranging it for future stages because it's automatic. If you owned Mario Maker and no other DLC, the stage wouldn't still be sitting in that spot.

They'd have to specifically set up the stage select screen to ignore the auto placement for this one specific stage, and that's entirely arbitrary and pointless.

Unless it's some quirk with 6 stages, specifically, which would... odd.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Of course the locations of the stages are dependent on which ones you bought and the game puts the ones you have accordingly in a specific order. But that's not the point I'm making.

My point is that you have absolutely no idea whether or not DLC stage #6 the player owns is or is not supposed to go below Miiverse and Peach's Castle, because you don't know how that specific slot is programmed/placed.
The game does not arrange the initial slot placement of the stages, that's up to the UI programmers. If the UI programmers decided DLC stage #6's slot isn't central (e.g. to avoid having to rearrange its position when DLC stage #7 comes out), then it won't be central. It's as easy as that. There is no automation in the process of where the UI programmers put a stage slot.

I would suggest to stop claiming your assumptions to be 100% fact, when they are not, and can be easily explained in other ways.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
If they programmed it to work that way instead of arranging it automatically, Smash is a poorer coded game than I had thought.

You don't make an ever expanding GUI that requires you to manually arrange placement like that.


I'm a front end web developer that works with fluid layouts every day :/
 
S

Sponge

Banned
Green Mamba said:
Awesome stage based on an awesome game, but can't help but think it's silly that we now have two Mario stages that are partially 1 to 1 recreations of New Super Mario Bros. U 1-1's visuals.
Click to expand...

There's also two stages with Mario World visuals now, except one is actually the sprites from the game.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
balladofwindfishes said:
If they programmed it to work that way instead of arranging it automatically, Smash is a poorer coded game than I had thought.

You don't make an ever expanding GUI that requires you to manually arrange placement like that.


I'm a front end web developer that works with fluid layouts every day :/
Click to expand...
It seems like Sakurai had no intention of doing DLC initially, & was possibly talked into it.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Neoxon said:
It seems like Sakurai had no intention of doing DLC initially, & was possibly talked into it.
Click to expand...
The game auto centers stock stages as well, it's just not as noticeable because there are more of them. As you unlock stages it adjusts itself as needed, moving stages to new rows.

This would be the only exception between both versions of the game for a stage not centering

I also doubt DLC wasn't planned early on. Miiverse has several remixes, including a few on the CD, so it was planned well in advance, and yet it comes after Dreamland on the select screen. Dreamland's music is also arranged in sound test like a stock stage, rather than the DLC stages which just tack it onto the end of the series.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
You're assuming a lot of stuff again! Now, let me tell you some things about coding UI because it seems like you don't really understand how this works, particularly because you consider it bad coding apparently.

First of all, I'm not sure if the developers know how many more stages they will have. They probably didn't at the start of the DLC development, though they might do by now. Thus, they were not able to program the amount of "stage slots" (I'm gonna continue calling those slots for all purposes here now) in advance.

Furthermore, DLC stages aren't simply stacked onto the game like some sort of Lego. The stage has to be implemented into the code, including the UI. All of the UI's aspects have to be manually included. The game itself can't code the pointers for music, preview images, etc., this has all to be done manually. That includes rearranging the selection screen, unless they put in placeholders for additional stages. That's why the stage selection screen got rearranged with every stage that has been released. They rearranged the slots manually to fit the new stages. If the DLC stage screen selection was built for 5 stages, it can't just magically hold 6.
Of course the game automatically detects which stages you have and will arrange them properly for you depending on how many you have, but that was also put in by the UI programmers. They coded the game so that it would display those stages in orderly fashion depending on what you own because that's what they wanted it to do.

The game itself can't create code that makes a stage appear in the selection screen. I have no idea why you think that a game not writing itself is "poor coding".
 
G

Geminosity

Member
Neoxon said:
It seems like Sakurai had no intention of doing DLC initially, & was possibly talked into it.
Click to expand...
Intended DLC or not, the smash UI in general is kind of an atrocity to anyone with even a remotely passing interesting in User Experience :s

You know something is wrong when I can pass my 3DS with smash loaded up on it to a group of 5 seasoned gamers with the challenge "find the game mode 'trophy rush'" and still be laughing at their combined attempts a good 5 minutes later :p
 
S

Starphoenix

Member
Geminosity said:
Intended DLC or not, the smash UI in general is kind of an atrocity to anyone with even a remotely passing interesting in User Experience :s

You know something is wrong when I can pass my 3DS with smash loaded up on it to a group of 5 seasoned gamers with the challenge "find the game mode 'trophy rush'" and still be laughing at their combined attempts a good 5 minutes later :p
Click to expand...
The only reason I want an NX-edition of Super Smash Bros is to fix the UI. My word does it really ruin the joy of the new stages for me. >_>
 
S

Sponge

Banned
It's probably not wise to assume but considering a Mario Maker stage is coming I'm feeling even better about Wolf's chances. I can definitely see him coming in November to help advertise Star Fox Zero.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Red Arremer said:
You're assuming a lot of stuff again! Now, let me tell you some things about coding UI because it seems like you don't really understand how this works, particularly because you consider it bad coding apparently.

First of all, I'm not sure if the developers know how many more stages they will have. They probably didn't at the start of the DLC development, though they might do by now. Thus, they were not able to program the amount of "stage slots" (I'm gonna continue calling those slots for all purposes here now) in advance.

Furthermore, DLC stages aren't simply stacked onto the game like some sort of Lego. The stage has to be implemented into the code, including the UI. All of the UI's aspects have to be manually included. The game itself can't code the pointers for music, preview images, etc., this has all to be done manually. That includes rearranging the selection screen, unless they put in placeholders for additional stages. That's why the stage selection screen got rearranged with every stage that has been released. They rearranged the slots manually to fit the new stages.
Of course the game automatically detects which stages you have and will arrange them properly for you depending on how many you have, but that was also put in by the UI programmers. They coded the game so that it would display those stages in orderly fashion depending on what you own because that's what they wanted it to do.

The game itself can't create code that makes a stage appear in the selection screen. I have no idea why you think that a game not writing itself is "poor coding".
Click to expand...

The game actually can "make code" that adds a stage to the selection screen. That's how it should work. They should be able to just have the thing be handed an image and a pointer to the stage and the system takes care of where it goes. It's just ordering images with a click event for a button press. The stage select screen isn't literally handling every facet of the stage system, it's just a pointer that tells the proper stage loading system that it needs to load this stage. That's an image and a reference to an ID, nothing more is needed.

If I had a GUI I had to make that had to have tiles centered and I never knew how many tiles I'd have or what order they'd be added to the list, the most sane approach is to let the system do all the lifting and organizing. It'd be a huge hassle to need to add more code every single time a new tile got added. And even more of a hassle to ensure the order remained the same for people who didn't get the new tiles.

That's how fluid GUIs work. We know this is how the stage selection screen works because this is how it's consistently worked since the game released. It's a fluid and dynamic GUI.
 
G

GiantBreadbug

Member
Two things:

1) I just watched the Japanese SMM stage trailer and noticed that it didn't have a separate page for DLC stages. They're just in the main page. And, the bottom row isn't centered again like in the English trailer.

2) I'm not sure if this was in the English trailer, but during the montage a gloved hand is placing blocks for one of the stages.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
Two things:

1) I just watched the Japanese SMM stage trailer and noticed that it didn't have a separate page for DLC stages. They're just in the main page. And, the bottom row isn't centered again like in the English trailer.

2) I'm not sure if this was in the English trailer, but during the montage a gloved hand is placing blocks for one of the stages.
Click to expand...

It probably just picks a random hand from Super Mario Maker. There are a couple gloved variants.
 
D

Drago

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
Two things:

1) I just watched the Japanese SMM stage trailer and noticed that it didn't have a separate page for DLC stages. They're just in the main page. And, the bottom row isn't centered again like in the English trailer.
Click to expand...

I think if you only have one (maybe two) DLC stage(s), it will show up in the regular stage menu and not the extras. Haven't watched the JP DLC video but it's probably the case there.
 
G

GiantBreadbug

Member
Pokemaniac said:
It probably just picks a random hand from Super Mario Maker. There are a couple gloved variants.
Click to expand...

Ooooh I hadn't been playing SMM long enough to see the gloved ones.

Also, I like all the stages on one screen better than having a separate page. Or maybe in the footage they showed not all the built in stages had been unlocked.

Also Drago all the DLC stages were there.

KH74bZNh.jpg


Edit: NEVERMIND just not all the stock stages are unlocked
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
Ooooh I hadn't been playing SMM long enough to see the gloved ones.

Also, I like all the stages on one screen better than having a separate page. Or maybe in the footage they showed not all the built in stages had been unlocked.

Also Drago all the DLC stages were there.

KH74bZNh.jpg


Edit: NEVERMIND just not all the stock stages are unlocked
Click to expand...

The hand is actually a setting. Click one of the sticks in the editor to change it.
 
G

Gleethor

Member
There's no real reason to not center the stage on the CSS, every other variant of it is centered. My take is there will be one other new stage in this update.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
The game actually can "make code" that adds a stage to the selection screen. That's how it should work. They should be able to just have the thing be handed an image and a pointer to the stage and the system takes care of where it goes. It's just ordering images with a click event for a button press. The stage select screen isn't literally handling every facet of the stage system, it's just a pointer that tells the proper stage loading system that it needs to load this stage. That's an image and a reference to an ID, nothing more is needed.

If I had a GUI I had to make that had to have tiles centered and I never knew how many tiles I'd have or what order they'd be added to the list, the most sane approach is to let the system do all the lifting and organizing. It'd be a huge hassle to need to add more code every single time a new tile got added. And even more of a hassle to ensure the order remained the same for people who didn't get the new tiles.

That's how fluid GUIs work. We know this is how the stage selection screen works because this is how it's consistently worked since the game released. It's a fluid and dynamic GUI.
Click to expand...

Exactly, this even happens with characters and unlocking characters/downloading DLC. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

Red Arremer said:
Of course the locations of the stages are dependent on which ones you bought and the game puts the ones you have accordingly in a specific order. But that's not the point I'm making.

My point is that you have absolutely no idea whether or not DLC stage #6 the player owns is or is not supposed to go below Miiverse and Peach's Castle, because you don't know how that specific slot is programmed/placed.
The game does not arrange the initial slot placement of the stages, that's up to the UI programmers. If the UI programmers decided DLC stage #6's slot isn't central (e.g. to avoid having to rearrange its position when DLC stage #7 comes out), then it won't be central. It's as easy as that. There is no automation in the process of where the UI programmers put a stage slot.

I would suggest to stop claiming your assumptions to be 100% fact, when they are not, and can be easily explained in other ways.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make sense outside of very sloppy coding. It's not fact, but the burden of proof is on you when every instance of the GUI seems to center new items.

GiantBreadbug said:
Ooooh I hadn't been playing SMM long enough to see the gloved ones.

Also, I like all the stages on one screen better than having a separate page. Or maybe in the footage they showed not all the built in stages had been unlocked.

Also Drago all the DLC stages were there.

Edit: NEVERMIND just not all the stock stages are unlocked
Click to expand...
Yeah having seen DLC stages installed on a console without any secret stages unlocked the bottom is centered so I do think it's likely something is up here.
 
M

Masked Man

I said wow
Suzaku Castle is not included in the list of stages since it comes coupled with Ryu, suggesting the missing Stage 4 will come from a pre-existing Smash 4 franchise. Sector Z for Wolf? Ship Deck for K. Rool? Who knows!

PK Gaming said:
Fuel for what fire?
Click to expand...

The furnace of the Smash Hype Train!
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Hatchtag said:
Hell yeah hell yeah. Looking forward to seeing what it is.
C'mon Fountain of Dreams. Or better yet Shadow Moses Island, because MGSV has rocketed Snake into being my most wanted vet.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be Shadow Mose Island because it's going to be bundled with Snake.
 
R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
So I was wondering how much money I would have to hand out just to get the Mii costumes I wanted (ie the character-specific, non-generic ones), and it turns out it's around twenty bucks.

...I'm not buying a single Mii costume ever.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Javier said:
The other stage is obviously Saltspray Rig.
Click to expand...

It would be bundled if that were the case. The stage is from a series that already has a stage or won't be tied to a character.

Unless for whatever reason Splatoon was getting two stages. Which wouldn't be out of the question, just not expected. Or they offer an unbundled stage and character.

It's probably either a 64 stage, a Brawl stage, or another new stage. Please be Pirate Ship.
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
BGBW said:
We could still get a new stage with a new character, it just won't be the mysterious DLCstage4.
Click to expand...
There isn't any room for another stage at the moment. The Super Mario Maker stage & the one that's hidden is looking to be all we're getting.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
GiantBreadbug said:
KH74bZNh.jpg
Click to expand...

I like how this screenshot is even more damning than the other one, because we know exactly how this many stages line up, since this is the stock map arrangement.

Same amount of maps if you unlock all the maps (without Miiverse), so this is how it should be arranged
t0A2KNK.jpg
Click to expand...

Although the editing is a bit better on this image, probably because there's just a giant blob of orange there.

Why didn't they just turn off the DLC to make the video? Unless they planned on announcing it at the same time as Mario Maker and the plans changed and this was a last minute edit to remove the other stage. That actually seems likely.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
The fact the stage perhaps hints towards slopes for Mario Maker means this could have been part of a larger video. Would have started off as an update about Mario Maker and then lead to a Smash update and then brings it all together for the video we got. Is this the first smash update that didn't start with the fire?
 
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