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[WiiRevolution1]

On the discussions on last page:

I still believe that atleast one character will come. It has to. The fate of the world depends on it.

No but seriously, it'll come. Fuck deadlines, it'll come in the update without being announced or it'll come in random twitter/youtube video, but it will come. I believe. Tho I don't think it'll be in a Direct.

Also agree on the notion that anyone expecting Wolf is in for a dissapointment. It really seemed like Sakurai was done with veterans and Wolf was one of the last characters to get in Brawl. Tho if it happens great, but I really wouldn't expect it to happen.

Edit: also I see nowhere that the "2nd stage" had to come from an existing franchise. While likely, that BS needs to stop. >_>

 

[balladofwindfishes]

There would be literally no reason at all to add Lucas and Roy, who are less popular than Wolf, and not add Wolf, especially mere months before Wolf becomes the most relevant he's been since the Gamecube era. Arguably, he'll be more relevant now than he was when Brawl came out.

 

[Green Mamba]

Edit: also I see nowhere that the "2nd stage" had to come from an existing franchise. While likely, that BS needs to stop. >_>

While it could be from a new franchise, it won't be from a new franchise that also has a newcomer. The stage is suggested by a missing number in the site names for the DLC stages, and Suzaku Castle is not counted among the normal DLC stages (and as such does not have its own number) due to it being included with Ryu with no way of getting one without the other.

 

[WiiRevolution1]

There would be literally no reason at all to add Lucas and Roy, who are less popular than Wolf, and not add Wolf, especially mere months before Wolf becomes the most relevant he's been since the Gamecube era. Arguably, he'll be more relevant now than he was when Brawl came out.

All true, but still Nintendo (and Sakurai) goes by there own rules so I will wouldn't expect him. Just look at the reason why Fox isn't in Skylanders. Nintendo can be random at times.

But I'd be for all 3 possible veterans to make a comeback. But its always best not expect them.

Spoiler

Next character will be IC fully running on 3DS just to fuck with us.

Edit:

While it could be from a new franchise, it won't be from a new franchise that also has a newcomer. The stage is suggested by a missing number in the site names for the DLC stages, and Suzaku Castle is not counted among the normal DLC stages (and as such does not have its own number) due to it being included with Ryu with no way of getting one without the other.

That is true. But there are many stages they can do without a character. Splatoon for example if they aren't doing Inklings for dlc.

 

[jph139]

I think Mii Costumes are a lock, a second stage is likely, and a new character is possible. They're close to release, sure, but most of their DLC announcements have been held close to the chest. The only reason we know about this one so far in advance is the Mario Maker stage, and it'd make sense to throw that out there during the peak of their marketing for their biggest Fall game.

Sakurai has specifically stated he's minimizing updates - I can't imagine he'd push out a new stage, alone, a few weeks after Mario Maker is released, with NO other content. It'd be the definition of frivolous.

 

[Gleethor]

"New content approaching! Tune in to a special presentation from Mr. Sakurai on Tuesday, Sept. 29 at 9AM PST to hear all about the latest content update for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U! We're howling with anticipation!"

*presentation happens*

Sakurai: Due to the delay of Star Fox Zero, Wolf has been cancelled. The Mario Maker stage has no songs, thank you. No patch notes.

 

[Green Mamba]

If there is a second stage here I think it'd probably be a returning stage. I don't see them putting enormous work into new DLC stages due to them being inherently lower draws than characters. New stages for newcomer franchises are a necessity, and Mario Maker is a relatively smaller investment due to it using mostly old assets. Beyond that, I don't see a Splatoon stage with no Splatoon character, for instance.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Pichu standing on one foot during a smash is not a compelling reason to make people spend money on him :s

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If there is a second stage here I think it'd probably be a returning stage. I don't see them putting enormous work into new DLC stages due to them being inherently lower draws than characters. New stages for newcomer franchises are a necessity, and Mario Maker is a relatively smaller investment due to it using mostly old assets. Beyond that, I don't see a Splatoon stage with no Splatoon character, for instance.

I wouldn't mind a Brawl stage. Kind of weird we haven't seen those as DLC yet, although there's a limited number of them that could work on the 3DS. Frigate Orpheon and Pirate Ship (the two I'd consider the most popular to return as DLC), both have unused music from Brawl, along with both seeming like they can work on the 3DS.

 

[Grotte]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but getting veterans like Pichu or Wolf over a newcomer would be disappointing to me.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Wolf would be rad, but Pichu wouldn't be my cup of tea. I'd still buy him because Smash DLC but I'd rather have Ivysaur and Squirtle (I know they're not clones and thus easier to make and don't stand on their own blah blah blah).

 

[Neoxon]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but getting veterans like Pichu or Wolf over a newcomer would be disappointing to me.

Wolf's pretty much expected at this point. Not only is he popular, but he's the last somewhat unique veteran with no legal or technical reasons holding him back.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Wolf's pretty much expected at this point. Not only is he popular, but he's the last somewhat unique veteran with no legal or technical reasons holding him back.

Squirtle and Ivysaur are more unique (and popular) than Wolf and there are no technical or legal reasons to not bring them back. I do want Wolf back, though.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are more unique (and popular) than Wolf and there are no technical or legal reasons to not bring them back. I do want Wolf back, though.

Squirtle and Ivysaur are not more popular than Wolf.

 

[TheDinoman]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are more unique (and popular) than Wolf and there are no technical or legal reasons to not bring them back. I do want Wolf back, though.

You could argue that Wolf holds up better as his own character than either of those. Ivysaur in particular would of never been playable in Brawl without Pokemon Trainer. Pokemon also already has six characters under its belt while Star Fox only has two.

 

[Green Mamba]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are not more popular than Wolf.

Maybe among active Smash players but no way is Wolf more popular than them in general.

All said and done though, if we get fucking Roy back but not Wolf that would be unbelievably weak.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are not more popular than Wolf.

Pretty sure the starters of the first Pokémon generation are more popular and well known than any Star Fox character other than Fox himself.

You could argue that Wolf holds up better as his own character than either of those.

Sure thing.

The "amount of playable characters" argument is really weak though, especially when Fire Emblem, out of all franchises, have 5 playable reps.

 

[Grotte]

Wolf's pretty much expected at this point. Not only is he popular, but he's the last somewhat unique veteran with no legal or technical reasons holding him back.

You're probably right.
It's just that most of the DLC so far has been stuff thats already in other smash games and I want to play something new.
The Mario Maker stage for example is something I'm looking forward to.

 

[TDLink]

Squirtle and Ivysaur are not more popular than Wolf.

Squirtle is definitely more well known and popular than either Ivysaur or Wolf. Ivysaur is also almost certainly more popular than Wolf. They're gen 1 pokemon...I mean, come on.

When it comes to what characters Smash players wants to see back, maybe that's a different story. Although I would argue that both Squirtle and Ivysaur are much more unique.

That said, Wolf is pretty much a given at this point while I find any additional pokemon somewhat unlikely.

 

[Platy]

GUYS GUYSE !

Look ! a new leak =O

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmcrica/status/647839972565712896

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Pretty sure the starters of the first Pokémon generation are more popular and well known than any Star Fox character other than Fox himself.

Maybe among active Smash players but no way is Wolf more popular than them in general.

All said and done though, if we get fucking Roy back but not Wolf that would be unbelievably weak.

Squirtle is definitely more well known and popular than either Ivysaur or Wolf. Ivysaur is also almost certainly more popular than Wolf. They're gen 1 pokemon...I mean, come on.

In general, but that's like saying Young Link is more popular than Wolf because Link is a more popular character.

Smash works differently than that. Wolf is usually one of the most popular cut vets in Smash, versus Ivysaur, whose usually the least popular. Outside of Smash popularity very rarely translates to Smash popularity.

 

[jph139]

I think a Squirtle amiibo would sell a LOT more than a Wolf amiibo, for starters.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think a Squirtle amiibo would sell a LOT more than a Wolf amiibo, for starters.

They're probably only going to make 15 Roy Amiibos, total, so Amiibo sales hardly seem like they'd matter when making DLC.

 

[Neoxon]

You're probably right.
It's just that most of the DLC so far has been stuff thats already in other smash games and I want to play something new.
The Mario Maker stage for example is something I'm looking forward to.

Given that the mystery second stage is listed separately, I wouldn't get your hopes up for a newbie in this update (or at least a newbie not from a franchise with characters in Smash 4 already).

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Yeah I think getting Squirtle and Ivysaur back would be rad. Just clean up their Brawl models, give them new Down Specials, simple Final Smashes, and call it a day if you wanna go the easy route. And people would buy them up because Pokémon (and Gen 1 starters at that).

Charizard is fun but imo he was the least fun to play of the three. Also his old forward air was more fun I think.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Ivysaur is an oddball. The only reason Ivysaur was even in Smash, was because of a gimmick that required it to be in the game. It basically got in on a technicality, while it never would have gotten in at all had the switch gimmick thing not been core to Pokemon Trainer existing.

Squirtle would be awesome to bring back.

For Ivysaur, maybe make the character "Pokemon Trainer and Ivysaur" and have them work like Brawl, with Red giving commands and being in the background, but Ivysaur being the character. This way, both Red and Ivysaur get to come back, along with a hint of their old gimmick. On the 3DS, maybe limit it to one trainer or something.

 

[kirby_fox]

Really if Sakurai pulls out all the stops, we're going to get everyone but Snake and Young Link back.

I can only imagine they saw a lot of people wanting Ice Climbers back, and maybe he urged them to keep trying. They were finished on Wii U, it's just figuring out how to get 3 DS to work.

They just have to use magic so it works...

 

[balladofwindfishes]

He basically turned the physics engine off and they still wouldn't run. It's not happening.

 

[kirby_fox]

He basically turned the physics engine off and they still wouldn't run. It's not happening.

MAGIC!

Spoiler

I'll never give up hope

 

[TheDinoman]

The "amount of playable characters" argument is really weak though, especially when Fire Emblem, out of all franchises, have 5 playable reps.

See, here's the thing about that: no series has ever surpassed Mario in terms of physical character slots. Yes, some series like Pokemon or Zelda cheated in terms of actual playable characters through transformations, but as far as selectable character slots on the CSS goes, no franchise has ever had more than Mario.

Mario currently has seven characters (I'm only talking about the main series with the Mushroom icon; Yoshi and Wario have their own symbols so they represent their own series each) while Pokemon has six. Adding both Ivysaur and Squirtle would boost Pokemon's roster slots to eight, overtaking Mario. Unless Sakurai decides to add yet another mainline Mario character, I can't see Pokemon getting that many characters.

 

[kirby_fox]

See, here's the thing about that: no series has ever surpassed Mario in terms of physical character slots. Yes, some series like Pokemon or Zelda cheated in terms of actual playable characters through transformations, but as far as selectable character slots on the CSS goes, no franchise has ever had more than Mario.

Mario currently has seven characters (I'm only talking about the main series with the Mushroom icon; Yoshi and Wario have their own symbols so they represent their own series each) while Pokemon has six. Adding both Ivysaur and Squirtle would boost Pokemon's roster slots to eight, overtaking Mario. Unless Sakurai decides to add yet another mainline Mario character, I can't see Pokemon getting that many characters.

Captain Toad and Daisy confirmed.

 

[Regulus Tera]

GUYS GUYSE !

Look ! a new leak =O

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmcrica/status/647839972565712896

Speaking of which, I just saw a video talking about the possibility that Crash makes it in because... the GBA games are coming to the Virtual Console?


I think Crash Bandicoot is the only character uglier than K. Rool. In all of history.

 

[TDLink]

Really if Sakurai pulls out all the stops, we're going to get everyone but Snake and Young Link back.

I can only imagine they saw a lot of people wanting Ice Climbers back, and maybe he urged them to keep trying. They were finished on Wii U, it's just figuring out how to get 3 DS to work.

They just have to use magic so it works...

n3DS/Wii U exclusive characters imo. Or just make them Wii U only honestly.

 

[Dr. Buni]

See, here's the thing about that: no series has ever surpassed Mario in terms of physical character slots. Yes, some series like Pokemon or Zelda cheated in terms of actual playable characters through transformations, but as far as selectable character slots on the CSS goes, no franchise has ever had more than Mario.

Mario currently has seven characters (I'm only talking about the main series with the Mushroom icon; Yoshi and Wario have their own symbols so they represent their own series each) while Pokemon has six. Adding both Ivysaur and Squirtle would boost Pokemon's roster slots to eight, overtaking Mario. Unless Sakurai decides to add yet another mainline Mario character, I can't see Pokemon getting that many characters.

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't coming back. To be fair, I don't really care that much about them, but they wouldn't be hard to bring back, Pokémon is popular, so... I can't think of any reasons to not release the starters as DLC. I doubt Sakurai would look at the roster and decided to not release them just because Pokémon would have more characters than the Mario series.

n3DS/Wii U exclusive characters imo. Or just make them Wii U only honestly.

Not going to happen and it shouldn't. And I speak as someone who only really cares about Ice Climbers as far as veterans are concerned.

 

[Regulus Tera]

n3DS/Wii U exclusive characters imo. Or just make them Wii U only honestly.

There's no point in making them n3DS/Wii U only when the majority of players are on the 3DS version. Time spent developing the Ice Climbers is better spent developing characters they can sell in every platform.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Actually, if adding Ice Climbers to ONLY the Wii U version would be easy (hint: it is because they already had them working on the Wii U), then it should absolutely happen. Parity is good, except when it makes shit like this happen. Ice Climbers are ready to include in the Wii U version as far as we've been told.

I don't think Sakurai would, but it's horse shit that an easy to include popular veteran should have to sit on the fuckin sidelines because of something that is completely arbitrary.

Sorry, but the way the situation worked out with ICs in particular is maddening. Absolutely maddening. 3DS players can't play Ice Climbers. Bummer. Doesn't mean Wii U players shouldn't be allowed to play them when, again, they're already up and running and ready to go.

 

[Richie]

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't coming back. To be fair, I don't really care that much about them, but they wouldn't be hard to bring back, Pokémon is popular, so... I can't think of any reasons to not release the starters as DLC. I doubt Sakurai would look at the roster and decided to not release them just because Pokémon would have more characters than the Mario series.

Yeah, 'sides Sakurai always counted the transformations as their own characters (as he should, really) so as far as he's concerned Pokémon's already had as much as 2 characters more than Mario in the past, CSS slots be darned.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Maybe they actually want to surprise us for once. Or maybe we're just getting the Mario Maker stage and nothing else. Who knows?

 

[Richie]

Actually, if adding Ice Climbers to ONLY the Wii U version would be easy (hint: it is because they already had them working on the Wii U), then it should absolutely happen. Parity is good, except when it makes shit like this happen. Ice Climbers are ready to include in the Wii U version as far as we've been told.

I don't think Sakurai would, but it's horse shit that an easy to include popular veteran should have to sit on the fuckin sidelines because of something that is completely arbitrary.

Sorry, but the way the situation worked out with ICs in particular is maddening. Absolutely maddening. 3DS players can't play Ice Climbers. Bummer. Doesn't mean Wii U players shouldn't be allowed to play them when, again, they're already up and running and ready to go.

We don't know if this was before 8 Player Smash through...

 

[Zubz]

Speaking of which, I just saw a video talking about the possibility that Crash makes it in because... the GBA games are coming to the Virtual Console?

I think Crash Bandicoot is the only character uglier than K. Rool. In all of history.

I agree that the logic used in this video was faulty (Plus the original video he cited looks pretty choppy). And I'm used to people here bashing K. Rool, as well as characters I like (RIPley). However, I'm not just going to stand by while someone calls Crash ugly!

... Or I will because everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and much like K. Rool, his design was driven by a company being unaccustomed to 3D tech and trying to make due with what they could pull off, so I can't object if someone calls either character ugly for both of those reasons. Still, even if I maintain that the characters I want most from the Ballot are Wonder Red, Bayonetta, or Ridley, I'd being giggling like a schoolgirl if we got Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I agree that the logic used in this video was faulty (Plus the original video he cited looks pretty choppy). And I'm used to people here bashing K. Rool, as well as characters I like (RIPley). However, I'm not just going to stand by while someone calls Crash ugly!

... Or I will because everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and much like K. Rool, his design was driven by a company being unaccustomed to 3D tech and trying to make due with what they could pull off, so I can't object if someone calls either character ugly for both of those reasons. Still, even if I maintain that the characters I want most from the Ballot are Wonder Red, Bayonetta, or Ridley, I'd being giggling like a schoolgirl if we got Crash Bandicoot.

If Sonic the Hedgehog's the Poochie to Mario then Crash Bandicoot is the Poochie to Sonic.

Actually, if adding Ice Climbers to ONLY the Wii U version would be easy (hint: it is because they already had them working on the Wii U), then it should absolutely happen. Parity is good, except when it makes shit like this happen. Ice Climbers are ready to include in the Wii U version as far as we've been told.

I don't think Sakurai would, but it's horse shit that an easy to include popular veteran should have to sit on the fuckin sidelines because of something that is completely arbitrary.

Sorry, but the way the situation worked out with ICs in particular is maddening. Absolutely maddening. 3DS players can't play Ice Climbers. Bummer. Doesn't mean Wii U players shouldn't be allowed to play them when, again, they're already up and running and ready to go.

You also have to remember about 8-Player Smash. The game already goes to great lengths to have eight characters functional in a handful of stages as is. Sixteen Ice Climbers is a whole other problem in the making.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

We don't know if this was before 8 Player Smash through...

Okay, I don't know how to start about saying this without sounding like a snobby know it all but

I know some things about computers, and how the Wii U works, and how the Ice Climbers' AI works from what I've read and looked at personally (Computer Science masters student, if that means anything), and I would be flabbergasted if the Wii U could not run 8 Ice Climbers.

The IC AI is not some super-intricate neural network. It's clearly more nuanced than Luma, but it's still really kinda simple. I cannot possibly imagine (again, from what I know from personal computing study experience, both in general and looking at the Wii U hardware specifically) the Wii U having difficulty doing it.

The issues that the game already has with 8 Player Smash is mostly an optimization problem. In a controlled environment, the Wii U can (99.9% sure) handle a simple stage and 8 ICs. It sure can handle all the items that can spawn during fights (especially ATs and Pokémon).

*pushes up glasses* I guess

 

[Richie]

Okay, I don't know how to start about saying this without sounding like a snobby know it all but

I know some things about computers, and how the Wii U works, and how the Ice Climbers' AI works from what I've read and looked at personally (Computer Science masters student, if that means anything), and I would be flabbergasted if the Wii U could not run 8 Ice Climbers.

The IC AI is not some super-intricate neural network. It's clearly more nuanced than Luma, but it's still really kinda simple. I cannot possibly imagine (again, from what I know from personal computing study experience, both in general and looking at the Wii U hardware specifically) the Wii U having difficulty doing it.

The issues that the game already has with 8 Player Smash is mostly an optimization problem. In a controlled environment, the Wii U can (99.9% sure) handle a simple stage and 8 ICs. It sure can handle all the items that can spawn during fights (especially ATs and Pokémon).

That so? I know jack about programming so I'll take your word for it lol. That said I think the best chance Popo and Nana have is in a potential remaster for the NX.

Also, never caught this gem before, bless Smash's Facebook page and its gift for trolling.

 

[Zubz]

If Sonic the Hedgehog's the Poochie to Mario then Crash Bandicoot is the Poochie to Sonic.

You also have to remember about 8-Player Smash. The game already goes to great lengths to have eight characters functional in a handful of stages as is. Sixteen Ice Climbers is a whole other problem in the making.

But Sonic already has a Poochie!

But I see what you mean, even if all 3 games are solid in their own right, and I'm personally a fan of all 3.

And that's true about the Ice Climbers, sadly. From the sounds of it, both dropping the Ice Climbers and making 8-Player Smash were last minute decisions; I doubt they tested the Ice Climbers in 8-Player Smash at all. I still hope they might find a nice alternative to get them in without making Popo his own character, like making the IC's sprites, but despite running perfectly on the GameCube and Wii, it seems like a portable game/8-Player Mode is just too much (Er... Too little?) for them. Which, again, is incredibly disappointing, even if it's understandable.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You also have to remember about 8-Player Smash. The game already goes to great lengths to have eight characters functional in a handful of stages as is. Sixteen Ice Climbers is a whole other problem in the making.

The Ice Climbers appear to have been cut very late, while 8 player appears to have been added very early, considering it's core to classic mode and several stages are specifically designed for it. I'm not really sure 8 Player had anything to do with Ice Climbers.

 

[EdgeXL]

Please consider voting for Banjo in Smash Bros! Phil Spencer indicated a willingness to let him cross over for this game.

https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Please consider voting for Banjo in Smash Bros! Phil Spencer indicated a willingness to let him cross over for this game.

https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/

Phil Spencer has no say. Nintendo isn't going to want to advertise one of their competitor's IP, especially since they'd have to pay Microsoft royalties for every Banjo Amiibo sold.

 

[Sponge]

Please consider voting for Banjo in Smash Bros! Phil Spencer indicated a willingness to let him cross over for this game.

https://cp.nintendo.co.jp/us/

Honestly? I'd rather have Yooka-Laylee in the game instead of Banjo, but only when Yooka-Laylee actually comes out. I'd rather Nintendo work with Playtonic since they actually wanna do stuff with Nintendo.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Okay, I don't know how to start about saying this without sounding like a snobby know it all but

I know some things about computers, and how the Wii U works, and how the Ice Climbers' AI works from what I've read and looked at personally (Computer Science masters student, if that means anything), and I would be flabbergasted if the Wii U could not run 8 Ice Climbers.

The IC AI is not some super-intricate neural network. It's clearly more nuanced than Luma, but it's still really kinda simple. I cannot possibly imagine (again, from what I know from personal computing study experience, both in general and looking at the Wii U hardware specifically) the Wii U having difficulty doing it.

The issues that the game already has with 8 Player Smash is mostly an optimization problem. In a controlled environment, the Wii U can (99.9% sure) handle a simple stage and 8 ICs. It sure can handle all the items that can spawn during fights (especially ATs and Pokémon).

*pushes up glasses* I guess

In the best case, Nana's AI is pretty simple, since she just mimics Popo with a bit of a delay. However, the worst case, where she gets separated from Popo is a different matter altogether. I don't know how Nana's AI is implemented internally, but I'd guess in that case the complexity approaches that of an entirely separate AI controlled character, albeit one who prioritizes getting back to Popo over fighting other characters. When you consider the fact that people have discovered that Nana actually seems to respond to the CPU player levels in Melee (apparently it doesn't get cleared when you switch a slot from CPU to human), I'd say it's pretty likely that Nana's "separated" AI is probably heavily based on the standard CPU AI. That would mean, in the worst case, you would be effectively dealing with 16 characters on the screen. With all of the interactive elements of stages that get cut in 8 player mode, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that the Wii U may have some issues if you effectively double the load placed on the system by the characters.

Not saying you're wrong, necessarily (AI isn't my strong point), but I'm not sure that your assessment of Nana's AI as "simple" (relative to normal, CPU controlled characters, of course) is completely on the mark.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Whenever you want to post on Twitter, Nintendo of Japan.

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