Support NeoGAF

[balladofwindfishes]

Sorry peeps, the Direct dream is dead for now.

I think we still have 10 hours or so before it's truly dead.

Unless it's a Sunday Direct ohohohoho

I think if they were going to add clones, they'd release character bundles together. Their individual release makes me really doubt they'll release any new clones as DLC.

They could just set them at 2 dollars or something really cheap.

 

[Draxal]

I think a lot of people, like King K. Rool and Ridley supporters, in part are bothered because Sakurai just doesn't want to add villains as much!

Wolf
Captain Syrup
King Hippo
Wart
Kamek
Dry Bowser (as a costume)
Mr. L (as a costume)
King K. Rool
Ridley
Dark Samus
Fawful
Count Bleck
Waluigi
Porky
Masked Man
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Cloaked Nightmare
Cackletta
Yuga
Dr. Wily
Dr. Eggman
Heihachi
Dark Monita
Boshi (as a costume)
Darkrai (not a villain perse but fills a villain role often)
Ganon
Ashnard (or something)
Samurai Goroh
Medusa
Hades

There are just so many villains, and all we've got for even kind-of-villains are (and for some I'm being real generous)

Bowser
Meta Knight (despite his recurring role as a protagonist, he served as a villain enough times to be on this list)
Bowser Jr.
Koopalings
Donkey Kong (again, generous)
Wario
Ganondorf
Mewtwo (famously seen as a villain by many people, and at best a dangerous opponent)
King Dedede
Dark Pit (villain enough)

We need more than this :[

The fire emblem villain would be Camus (pretty much Char Aznable of Fire Emblem) or the Black Knight.

Honestly, Fire Emblem villains are way down the list of characters that I would add to the game, as for Lyn if she were to make it I guess she could be a Takamaru clone (bow instead of shurikens).

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think if they were going to add clones, they'd release character bundles together. Their individual release makes me really doubt they'll release any new clones as DLC.

Well, and while Lucas and Roy are fairly different (Roy at least now), they were released in bulk w/ Ryu so I could see that happening.

The fire emblem villain would be Camus (pretty much Char Aznable of Fire Emblem) or the Black Knight.

Honestly, Fire Emblem villains are way down the list of characters that I would add to the game, as for Lyn if she were to make it I guess she could be a Takamaru clone (bow instead of shurikens).

TBH I don't really recall Fire Emblem stuff much, as far as villains go anyway. :v I just like Ashnard's design

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Or were they released in bulk because they were fairly minor veterans?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Or were they released in bulk because they were fairly minor veterans?

Couldn't it be the same principles though? Low-key clone characters would not be satisfactory for players if they were released one-by-one. That said though, Lucas and Roy were really popular in the polls, is it fair to call them minor?

 

[Boss Doggie]

There is no dream

 

[Neoxon]

Our last hope is an info dump on social media.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Couldn't it be the same principles though? Low-key clone characters would not be satisfactory for players if they were released one-by-one. That said though, Lucas and Roy were really popular in the polls, is it fair to call them minor?

Lucas never had a poll really, as he was announced at the same time as the ballot.

I think Lucas and Roy are in a different "tier" of vet than Wolf, Mewtwo, Snake and Ice Climbers, and seem more close to Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu.

I guess it's like a "big" vet would be the ultra popular ones that nearly everyone wants to see back, versus more minor characters that people would like back, but don't necessarily have the mass appeal.

But yea, I think they'd either release the clones all at once at the very end as bonuses, or price them super cheap, likely both.

 

[Starphoenix]

I think we still have 10 hours or so before it's truly dead.

Unless it's a Sunday Direct ohohohoho

It's close to evening in Japan, right? I'm not sure a Nintendo Direct has ever had less than at least a day and a halfs notice before airing. Could be wrong about that.

 

[Sponge]

Our last hope is an info dump on social media.

I'm holding out for it but I'm willing to bet at best we'll get an announcement next week instead of this one.

 

[Geminosity]

Villains bring about a different edge than protagonists do. I think a lot of people found it pretty cool to be able to play as Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and Bowser in Melee, because they're just such different characters. Mewtwo and Ganondorf have their wicked laughs, and Bowser has his deep roars. So on one hand, it's that they offer personality types and character types that we don't really see in protagonists. On the other hand, they offer somewhat different moveset styles as well. Before Bowser, the only real character like him was DK, but even DK was a speedy character. Ganondorf and Wolf were more powerful versions of characters who they are based on (the later only mildly), etc. Villains often have hard-hitting attacks, or use dark/evil magic, or sneaky attacks. For instance, you know who would have been better than a lot of the Fire Emblem cast in this game? Many of its villains.

Problem is all that is just a grab-bag of stuff that's not really specific to villains. Dark magic, to pick out an example that seems more extreme on the surface, is happily wielded by Robin, Tharja, Midna, Ashley and tonnes of pokemon to name a few non-villain examples and again there are lots of villains who don't use dark magic too. If someone says "I would like more dark magic users" then we have something a bit less subjective to deal with, but 'villains' is kind of a airy thing outside of 'main antagonist' but looking at how varied our protagonists are it's not a very concise definition

I think the idea is that to many people the most important character after the main hero would be the villain or rival that opposes that character, or the villain might be even more important in some cases. So, villains should have priority over supporting cast.

That doesn't seem to be a common view in Japan though. For example, many merchandising lines feature very little material related to villains, with the ones that give some focus to them, like Gundam, being a big exception. I guess that would also explain some of Sakurai's choices, like how Zelda (and Sheik) made it to Melee as an unique character while Ganondorf only was a last minute extra.

Yup, but this is because I think the character is more important than the vague category of 'villain' as not every antagonist is really that fleshed out or interesting, serving as merely more of a plot device or obstacle for the protagonist. Some 'villains' however ARE interesting, charasmatic or whatnot. It seems limiting to just batch them all together under a vague category like 'villain'.

I guess I am one of the few people that doesn't give a shit about the character "representing" something as long as the character is interesting and plays good. Yeah sure all of us aren't villains, but at the same time I'm a male but I'm not a plumber who can inadvertently shoot fireballs from my palms.

I wasn't aware 'plumber' was a physical trait you could be born with You don't see people asking for more playable coders in games because it's a vocation/skill and not a fixed attribute.
Also anyone can shoot fire from their hands if they grab a fire flower from what little I've observed of the mario universe :3

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's close to evening in Japan, right? I'm not sure a Nintendo Direct has ever had less than at least a day and a halfs notice before airing. Could be wrong about that.

Haven't they done that before? I remember some Direct being announced the day before at like 6pm EST. I think it was the April one that announced Mewtwo.

 

[IntelliHeath]

It's close to evening in Japan, right? I'm not sure a Nintendo Direct has ever had less than at least a day and a halfs notice before airing. Could be wrong about that.

I think it's 2:30am right now.

Edited: y'all should temper your expectations!

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think ultimately, the best point made is "this is a game about toys fighting, it'd be like playing He-Man without Skeletor"

 

[Boss Doggie]

I wasn't aware 'plumber' was a physical trait you could be born with You don't see people asking for more playable coders in games because it's a vocation/skill and not a fixed attribute.
Also anyone can shoot fire from their hands if they grab a fire flower from what little I've observed of the mario universe :3

What about being an anthropomorphic wolf or a gorilla named after some hooved animal, or an inanimate object brought to life by powers-that-be? But like I said I don't really give much shit about it as long as it doesn't become an arbitrary focus - the focus should always be the character providing something interesting when being played.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Maybe they'll upload the Inkling trailer stealthily like the Mario Maker one

 

[A Link to the Past]

Maybe they'll upload the Inkling trailer stealthily like the Mario Maker one

*pat pat*

 

[Starphoenix]

I think it's 2:30am right now.

Yeaaaahhh. It's not happening, guys. Better hold out till the 30th.

 

[Green Mamba]

Duh. Nintendo time doesn't run on hope and maybes.

 

[Neoxon]

Maybe they'll upload the Inkling trailer stealthily like the Mario Maker one

There there. We have another week before the Smash dream is dead, there's still hope.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why is there so much stuff that needs to be announced that they aren't announcing? ._.

Not even Smash related. Or even related to a leak or anything. Like, the first mobile game was supposed to be out in the Fall. We know basically no Amiibos being released after November. Mario and Luigi, Mario Tennis and AC:Amiibo Party are coming in a few months/a month and we know nothing about them. Mario Maker has some announced future costumes coming soon, but we have no idea when or what else that update will have...

This can't possibly be an effective marketing technique.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Also, we need Teleroboxer in Smash. Virtual Boy is the only console Nintendo's published a game for that doesn't have a rep!

 

[Green Mamba]

"Maybe next week."

 

[Neoxon]

"Maybe next week."

Was this an actual quote from Twitter?

 

[Green Mamba]

Was this an actual quote from Twitter?

No, I'm just repeating the same excuse I see every time the hype doesn't pan out.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Why is there so much stuff that needs to be announced that they aren't announcing? ._.

Not even Smash related. Or even related to a leak or anything. Like, the first mobile game was supposed to be out in the Fall. We know basically no Amiibos being released after November. Mario and Luigi, Mario Tennis and AC:Amiibo Party are coming in a few months/a month and we know nothing about them. Mario Maker has some announced future costumes coming soon, but we have no idea when or what else that update will have...

This can't possibly be an effective marketing technique.

Ever since Iwata died, they've been running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Nothing is announced in a timely manner, and it's usually posted at random on Twitter. Not a good time to be a Nintendo fan.

Also, we need Teleroboxer in Smash. Virtual Boy is the only console Nintendo's published a game for that doesn't have a rep!

They should just give Wario a black and red alternate color scheme. You know, to make up for the fact that they removed four alts for no reason.

 

[javadoze]

For the next DLC character, we don't need Wolf, the Inklings, or Ashley.

We need the people's champion...

Spoiler

I actually feel like he has a lot of potential moveset-wise.

 

[backlot]

They should just give Wario a black and red alternate color scheme. You know, to make up for the fact that they removed four alts for no reason.

ROB's Virtual Boy color scheme is the best.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I can just imagine all the people making YouTube videos and charts about how a Black and Red Wario costume is a reference to Red Star Mario in Galaxy. And not the Virtual Boy.

Like the bizarre idea that pink Greninja isn't just pink Greninja (as most non-Pikachu/Mewtwo colors are made up) but it related to Lickilicky for who knows what reason (they both have tongues I guess?).

Even Sakurai sometimes retcons costumes or forgets where they really came from (hello pink Samus costume), but fans seem to just make up explanations sometimes. Or ignore actual plausible references like mustard Mewtwo being a knicknamed shiny skin from Pokemon Stadium like half of his other costumes are alts from Stadium.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I wish every character had sixteen costumes. Eight Classic Wario colours, eight Biker Wario colours, eight Alph colours, eight Olimar colours, two colours for each Koopaling/Bowser Jr., etc.

That said, I'm rather annoyed that they've not yet given any non-Mii costumes as DLC!

 

[PK Gaming]

Remember when Wario alone was special?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And now he's not even special at all, as Little Mac has the honor of having the most costumes for who knows what reason.

 

[Geminosity]

What about being an anthropomorphic wolf or a gorilla named after some hooved animal, or an inanimate object brought to life by powers-that-be? But like I said I don't really give much shit about it as long as it doesn't become an arbitrary focus - the focus should always be the character providing something interesting when being played.

Oh, it definitely shouldn't be the only reason the character exists / is included. That's a pretty bad reason in itself. That's how you end up with 'token' characters :/
A character first and foremost should be interesting.

Funnily enough though, the examples you give though kind of highlight the issue... for all the imaginative deviation they show from being a white male human, they're still male in a roster that's stacked with males with exclusively male DLC being added so far
I wish I could type something insightful here to get across why I care ( I can't speak for anyone else after all) but it just feels like I'd be splurging out a giant novel that would utterly fail to get anything valuable across. (admittedly I'm tired as all heck right now and kinda ill so that doesn't really help me in making particularly eloquent posts at the moment XD )

I think ultimately, the best point made is "this is a game about toys fighting, it'd be like playing He-Man without Skeletor"

I keep forgetting about the toy thing. It almost feels like they kind of dumped that motif the further into the series they went. That said I don't think I actually ever owned both sides of a 'conflict' when it came to toys when I was little... I kind of just liked one or other and stuck with those Then again, who's the villain in a Barbie set?
None of that invalidates what you're saying, it's just more me thinking aloud XD

 

[MrSaturn99]

Remember when Wario alone was special?

F-flab.

 

[NotLiquid]

I think we still have 10 hours or so before it's truly dead.

Unless it's a Sunday Direct ohohohoho

I mean, it could happen. They've done them before. That and a Sunday Direct would make some sense due to maintenance time.

No, I'm just repeating the same excuse I see every time the hype doesn't pan out.

Well at this point it's practically all but guaranteed that Nintendo has to announce something due to the universal system maintenance and the bits of content that have been seeping out, so whether the Smash rumor is true in all of this is left to see. It's all just a matter of when they make their major announcement.

 

[Zubz]

Why is there so much stuff that needs to be announced that they aren't announcing? ._.

Not even Smash related. Or even related to a leak or anything. Like, the first mobile game was supposed to be out in the Fall. We know basically no Amiibos being released after November. Mario and Luigi, Mario Tennis and AC:Amiibo Party are coming in a few months/a month and we know nothing about them. Mario Maker has some announced future costumes coming soon, but we have no idea when or what else that update will have...

This can't possibly be an effective marketing technique.

The Mario Maker stuff was leaked/datamined as well, right (Barring Arino and the Famitsu costumes)? It's hella clear they're sitting on a Direct and a half right now, but only the nigh-imminent games they're not advertising (Like Mario Tennis) is nonexistent marketing. The rest is just confusing because we know just enough to realize they have an announcement waiting, but little about things beyond surface details. It's enough that the headlines have already been made, but the stories are little more than a shrug.

I still think they don't know what to do about Directs without Iwata. But at this point, they're starting to wait too long; no one can replace Iwata, but they can announce the Direct with Microsoft Sam at this point, or even just do another Twitter dump. They just need to make those holiday announcements they've been sitting on, or else they're going to lose sales at the most crucial time of the year for them!

 

[Green Mamba]

It's all just a matter of when they make their major announcement.

Of course, but after a while you kind of forfeit your ability to say you saw it coming.

 

[BGBW]

And now he's not even special at all, as Little Mac has the honor of having the most costumes for who knows what reason.

Because they could literally recycle all the colours and slap them on his wireframe model The only unique costume Wireframe Mac has is the green training suit. They couldn't do that with Wario.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Does anybody even use Wireframe Mac? I haven't seen it once.

 

[NotLiquid]

Does anybody even use Wireframe Mac? I haven't seen it once.

I use it the few times I use Mac.

I.e once every four months maybe.

 

[KelpPlankton]

Does anybody even use Wireframe Mac? I haven't seen it once.

i see wireframe hoodie mac quite a lot, he's creepy

 

[Red Arremer]

I use it when I play Mac, which is only in single player.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Because they could literally recycle all the colours and slap them on his wireframe model The only unique costume Wireframe Mac has is the green training suit. They couldn't do that with Wario.

They only had to make four new colors to bring Wario to 16. They ended up making 3 new colors to consolidate his biker colors anyway.

 

[Hatchtag]

Does anybody even use Wireframe Mac? I haven't seen it once.

Nah, no Mac main uses it because its his most overused costume. Which thus makes it his most underused costume. Its weird but that's why it is.

 

[Neoxon]

And the TP HD thread died with the dream.

Daddy Sakurai pls

 

[J@hranimo]

And the TP HD thread died with the dream.

Daddy Sakurai pls

To be honest, was the dream ever real?

 

[Neoxon]

To be honest, was the dream ever real?

It was to me, even if I didn't openly admit it.

 

[Triforce141]

Remember what happened back in March when there was a thread about when the next Direct would happen and people going nuts? That thread got shut down too, and then the Direct itself was announced for April 1st, not too long after.

Nintendo prepares themselves for Directs and major announcements when NeoGaf threads like that gets locked.


*tinfoil hat goes off*

 

[Neoxon]

Remember what happened back in March and is going nuts about when the next Direct would happen? That thread got shut down too, and then the study itself was announced for April 1st.

Nintendo prepares themselves for Directs and major announcements when NeoGaf threads like that gets locked.


*tinfoil hat goes off*

So threads have to be sacrificed for us to get Directs?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

To be honest, was the dream ever real?

Well, it's pretty clear Twilight Princess HD is happening, it's just when it would be announced that caused the craziness.