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[tirkaroKujo]

Speaking of Level 5, I have a slight feeling that business wise, Nintendo themselves would probably push for Jibanyan over Layton

NoA in particular has been pushing the Yo-Kai Watch franchise HARD across social media and advertising, and I'm pretty sure if they had a say in it, they'd demand Jibanyan to be included in a heartbeat. I'm going to assume that, due to the recent erratic actions of the Pokemon company, Nintendo REALLY wants a new Pokemon on their hands that they can more easily control. And there would be no better advertising than Jibanyan in Smash.

It probably all comes down to Sakurai, and whether or not he wants to include a popular-but-unproven-outside-of-japan franchise over the current "Hall of Fame" approach with a legacy franchise that has no real future (as it's sort of wrapped up by this point, we dont talk about Layton 7) but is nonetheless a well-known name everywhere.

 

[Clov]

Speaking of Level 5, I have a slight feeling that business wise, Nintendo themselves would probably push for Jibanyan over Layton

NoA in particular has been pushing the Yo-Kai Watch franchise HARD across social media and advertising, and I'm pretty sure if they had a say in it, they'd demand Jibanyan to be included in a heartbeat. I'm going to assume that, due to the recent erratic actions of the Pokemon company, Nintendo REALLY wants a new Pokemon on their hands that they can more easily control. And there would be no better advertising than Jibanyan in Smash.

It probably all comes down to Sakurai, and whether or not he wants to include a popular-but-unproven-outside-of-japan franchise over the current "Hall of Fame" approach with a legacy franchise that has no real future (as it's sort of wrapped up by this point, we dont talk about Layton 7) but is nonetheless a well-known name everywhere.

While I'd prefer Layton, a Yokai Watch character would be far more likely given how massive the franchise is in Japan right now, and how Nintendo's Western branches are trying to make it big over here. I wonder how well it's doing?

 

[Chronoman]

10 years ago, I would say Konami would be a no brainer, especially over a company like Level 5. But times are changing. Konami is barely a game company anymore or wants anything to do with the kind of gaming Smash celebrates.

 

[RedColumn]

I decided to put the roster together with colored backgrounds.
Can't wait for full roster!

I love it! it looks great

For curiosity, here is how the result of this brainstorm ballot is going (first 12):

https://www.tricider.com/brainstorming/2srOXE2n99x

People really like Isaac :O

 

[kirby_fox]

I wouldn't expect a character that isn't widely known or popular after Cloud. Layton or Jibanyan I'm not sure would fit.

At the same time I'm expecting the unexpected. It's only 15 days to December.

Edit: Hey RedColumn, not sure why but I can't vote in that poll ya got there. Says access denied when I tried to apply a vote. Maybe throw one on for Ice Climbers for me, it's the only one I voted for in the ballot.

 

[Chronoman]

I wouldn't expect a character that isn't widely known or popular after Cloud. Layton or Jibanyan I'm not sure would fit.

At the same time I'm expecting the unexpected. It's only 15 days to December.

Edit: Hey RedColumn, not sure why but I can't vote in that poll ya got there. Says access denied when I tried to apply a vote. Maybe throw one on for Ice Climbers for me, it's the only one I voted for in the ballot.

Yokai is the most popular series in Japan right now. Layton is the most popular puzzle game ever. Level 5 is getting bigger and bigger. Level 5 fits in this game. Moreso than Konami right now.

 

[Drago]

Layton is funny because I feel as if most people (in the west, anyway) consider him a first party Nintendo character already. He was always pushed as one in the US and especially in Europe. It wasn't until just a few years ago that I found out he wasn't actually their character, but Level-5s. Like, if he was actually a proper Nintendo character he would have been a shoo-in for Smash 4, but he's not. If he got in as a guest character he would feel more like an overdue Nintendo character to me and probably a lot of other people (not that I can prove that, of course).

He's one of the very few guest characters left that I would like to see in the game (Rayman is probably the only other one) but I don't think he's really big enough to make it. Besides, I'm not sure L5 has any real plans for the series going forward other than that weird mobile card game...

 

[RedColumn]

Edit: Hey RedColumn, not sure why but I can't vote in that poll ya got there. Says access denied when I tried to apply a vote. Maybe throw one on for Ice Climbers for me, it's the only one I voted for in the ballot.

I think the server is not working good right now (or we crash it)... since the poll is getting more and more votes, the site is going really slow or not showing. Its a free third party polling system, so.. nothing that I can do.

Its going to be open until the broadcast is open, so later on I guess will be more calm. I did vote for you though

56 Isaac... so many fans :|. More than 650 votes already.

 

[MagnesD3]

Should try sending that to smashboards if you want numbers to sky rocket. I also like how they call wolf half a clone when it's more like 12% a clone.

 

[Javier]

Some Miiverse drawings:

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm2QwdDg

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm5hQ-Eg

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm2vKDxw

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm5wxMQg

 

[BKSmash]

It's kind of unbelievable how much love Banjo Kazooie got for this ballot, and I loved every second of it.

 

[Sponge]

It's kind of unbelievable how much love Banjo Kazooie got for this ballot, and I loved every second of it.

and all it took was Phil Spencer telling us he'd be okay with it Really warms my old heart.

 

[PK Gaming]

Some Miiverse drawings:

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm2QwdDg

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm5hQ-Eg

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm2vKDxw

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkm5wxMQg

These are seriously great

I love the fanart that accompanies a new character

 

[Boss Doggie]

Should try sending that to smashboards if you want numbers to sky rocket. I also like how they call wolf half a clone when it's more like 12% a clone.

who's calling wolf a clone, I want to check em

 

[Chronoman]

Wolf is not a clone, he is just extremely boring and adds nothing to the roster.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wolf is not a clone, he is just extremely boring and adds nothing to the roster.

Point me to a character who fights like a feral character. No, none of the Pokemon do that.

 

[Chronoman]

Point me to a character who fights like a feral character. No, none of the Pokemon do that.

I can argue Charizard fights a bit like that. Bowser fight a bit like that. His specials are more or less copies, same final smash.


He is a villian, I do like that. I am not begging for him to come back. I would rather have someone new like Inklings.

 

[Regulus Tera]

who's calling wolf a clone, I want to check em

The same people calling Cloud an Ike clone.

 

[Chronoman]

The same people calling Cloud an Ike clone.

Cloud has a completely unique game mechanic. Nobody can say that with a straight face.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Cloud has a completely unique game mechanic. Nobody can say that with a straight face.

I'm not making this up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SD-pt8sNsU

 

[Chronoman]

I'm not making this up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SD-pt8sNsU

Stupidity. Cloud is the only character whose special moves have the potential to get stronger.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

There's only so many moves you can give to a character wielding a comedy oversized sword. Some are going to match Ike or Shulk.

Also Ryu has a few random animations he shares with other characters, like hit stun or whatever. Mewtwo doesn't share any, which is actually pretty interesting. I guess there wasn't any character they could use as a base for Mewtwo.

Stupidity. Cloud is the only character whose special moves have the potential to get stronger.

Other than Lucario?

 

[Chronoman]

Cloud shares no special moves with ike, different final smash, mostly different normals, unique mechanic. He is like 2% an Ike clone.

 

[Chronoman]

There's only so many moves you can give to a character wielding a comedy oversized sword. Some are going to match Ike or Shulk.

Also Ryu has a few random animations he shares with other characters, like hit stun or whatever. Mewtwo doesn't share any, which is actually pretty interesting. I guess there wasn't any character they could use as a base for Mewtwo.



Other than Lucario?

The way it works appears to be different.

 

[Draxal]

I wouldn't expect a character that isn't widely known or popular after Cloud. Layton or Jibanyan I'm not sure would fit.

At the same time I'm expecting the unexpected. It's only 15 days to December.

Edit: Hey RedColumn, not sure why but I can't vote in that poll ya got there. Says access denied when I tried to apply a vote. Maybe throw one on for Ice Climbers for me, it's the only one I voted for in the ballot.

Jibanyan would def fit in Japan (hence Japan bitching about Cloud being for foreigners).

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Cloud shares no special moves with ike, different final smash, mostly different normals, unique mechanic. He is like 2% an Ike clone.

Well yea, Cloud is as much of a clone as Little Mac, Ryu and Captain Falcon are. I imagine stuff like being launched is going to be shared with Ike or Shulk, because nobody notices any characters sharing that junk and it saves work.

The way it works appears to be different.

Yea, but you said the only character to power up their specials.

 

[MagnesD3]

who's calling wolf a clone, I want to check em

Its a con listed on that poll.

Its pretty disheartening that Wolf probably wont get in as DLC when Lucas and roy characters whose games havent even come over to the west and are less popular then wolf have gotten in and a character like Cloud who honestly realistically shouldnt be in (even though he's cool) are in. The additions in smash 4 havent appealed to me really at all including the dlc and thats a shame.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I can argue Charizard fights a bit like that. Bowser fight a bit like that. His specials are more or less copies, same final smash.


He is a villian, I do like that. I am not begging for him to come back. I would rather have someone new like Inklings.

Nah, Charizard is a Pokemon. They don't really fight... feral. I guess you could excuse Bowser, but for me, he lacks that feel of being a character who goes wild. Like he's a slow, lumbering kaiju than a beastman gone wild.

 

[Chronoman]

For me the perfect remaining dlc is cloud, inkling, k rool, shovel knight. I could go to sleep happy with that

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Its a con listed on that poll.

Its pretty disheartening that Wolf probably wont get in as DLC when Lucas and roy characters whose games havent even come over to the west and are less popular then wolf have gotten in and a character like Cloud who honestly realistically shouldnt be in (even though he's cool) are in. The additions in smash 4 havent appealed to me really at all including the dlc and thats a shame.

Nah, Wolf will get in

- Sakurai knows fans will be disappointed if he doesn't. After Lucas, Roy and Mewtwo came back, it was completely obvious and expected for Wolf to return. Especially Lucas and Roy, as Wolf is arguably more popular than they are.
- Wolf will be more relevant next year than he was when Brawl was released.
- He was requested enough for Brawl that they added him in when they had time at the end. His popular hasn't really gone down, if anything it has gone up.
- Wolf can be ported from Brawl and updated accordingly, just like Lucas was. Remove some balance changes to frame timing, and Lucas is basically frame perfect to 95% Brawl's animations. Even if they don't want to port Wolf for whatever reason, he only requires 75% of the work of a normal character.
- There... just aren't really that many potential New Comers. I mean, we've basically exhausted the entire library of major and old Japanese companies (other than Konami), so there's a bunch of Nintendo characters left, and other than Inklings, nobody really stands out as a heavy hitter for DLC. Let alone two or three of them to fill up the last DLC update.
- It's convenient to have the voice actors in for Zero to just throw together some lines for Wolf and maybe some rival lines for Fox and Falco if they really feel like going all the way.
- Wolf is basically free money.

Wolf isn't exactly a big deal as far as generating hype (kind of like Roy). So that's probably why he's so late compared to the other vet DLC. That, and Zero was supposed to release now, which would have lined up better than this awkward half a year lag between Wolf's potential release and Zero's release.

 

[Man God]

Pichu is much more important than wolf.

 

[Ryce]

Jibanyan would def fit in Japan (hence Japan bitching about Cloud being for foreigners).

I really hate those "What Japan thinks about ____!" articles because a handful of cherrypicked comments aren't representative of anything. Imagine Japanese gamers spreading the myth that "America loves Baby Gold Toadette Jr." because of a single YouTube comment.

I'm not singling you out, but the sentiment that "Cloud was added for foreigners" has picked up surprising traction on various forums over the last few days, and it's driving me crazy. Famitsu readers voted Final Fantasy VII as their second favorite video game of all-time in a 2006 survey. Cloud was added for everyone.

 

[ffdgh]

Wolf is not a clone, he is just extremely boring and adds nothing to the roster.

Eh that statement can be said for many other characters depending on a person's opinion.

Best space animal.
Don't touch his damn voice.

 

[Green Mamba]

The only character who adds nothing to the roster is Dark Pit.

 

[Dr. Buni]

The only character who adds nothing to the roster is Dark Pit.

And Lucina.

 

[Green Mamba]

And Lucina.

Lucina at least has "Marth with training wheels" to her resume. What does Dark Pit have? "Pit with worse arrows and a side B that sends them this way instead of that way?"

 

[DICKS AHOY]

The only character who adds nothing to the roster is Dark Pit.

Dr. Mario is at least a playable reminder that FLUDD sucks.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Lucina at least has "Marth with training wheels" to her resume. What does Dark Pit have? "Pit with worse arrows and a side B that sends them this way instead of that way?"

Good in one very specific match up with Rosalina.

 

[ffdgh]

Lucina at least has "Marth with training wheels" to her resume. What does Dark Pit have? "Pit with worse arrows and a side B that sends them this way instead of that way?"

Who doesn't love earlier horizontal ko's?

Dark pit main benifit is giving pit an alternate custom moveset for standard B and Side B without the hassle of regular customs.

 

[Green Mamba]

Maybe Dark Pit's claim to fame is making the random button twice as likely to make you choose Pit over any other character, lol.

 

[MagnesD3]

I agree Dark Pit and Lucina should die in a fire, as well as all the lazy down B counter special moves.

 

[PK Gaming]

Dark Pit is whatever

Laziest character ever, sure, but he's there for people who prefer him over Pit. Hell, when you get tired of Pit you can swap over to him.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Or you get particularly frustrated at Luma and want to punch it violently over the edge of the stage.

Funny enough, that one specific niche has made it so I see way more Dark Pits being used in tournaments than regular Pit.

When your one very specific niche is against a top tier character, it manages to make you worth using.

 

[TheDinoman]

I agree Dark Pit and Lucina should die in a fire, as well as all the lazy down B counter special moves.

I kinda agree with this. The only Smash 4 newcomers that really warranted a counter of sorts were Little Mac and Shulk. Countering attacks is a big part of Punch-Out!!'s gameplay and Shulk has the ability to see the future and a counter is probably the most practical way to implement that.

 

[DecoReturns]

People still mad about Dark Pit?

let Sakurai admire his previous work with a little fun.

Who knows, maybe some little kid has Dark Pit as his Favorite character...maybe.

 

[ffdgh]

Well there's the alternative of making all the down B counters like timber counter...

Or you get particularly frustrated at Luma and want to punch it violently over the edge of the stage.

Funny enough, that one specific niche has made it so I see way more Dark Pits being used in tournaments than regular Pit.

When your one very specific niche is against a top tier character, it manages to make you worth using.

Anything that makes that annoying meat shield less of a pain is good to me.

 

[TheDinoman]

I'd like Dark Pit more if he had more statistical differences from Pit. When you look at Fox and Falco in Melee, they may share attack animations but they feel like different characters. One can't play Falco in the same way they can play as Fox. DP is just Pit but very slightly modified.

 

[SaikyoBro]

I'd like Dark Pit more if he had more statistical differences from Pit. When you look at Fox and Falco in Melee, they may share attack animations but they feel like different characters. One can't play Falco in the same way they can play as Fox. DP is just Pit but very slightly modified.

I'm with TheDinoman on this one, I remember briefly considering the possibility of Dark Pit as a Kid Icarus character but with him using different weapons than Pit since one of the big draws of Uprising was the game having a huge arsenal.

I wasn't shocked that he ended up being a clone instead, but it is pretty surprising how few differences there are with him and Pit. His movesset is pretty straight-forward and easy to alter, he could've been more about single-hitting attacks than Pit's many multi-hit ones.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Sakurai bringing Roy back and not Wolf is kind of unimaginable to me. Even if both could be considered clones in Melee and Brawl (which Wolf isn't), Wolf was still the much more unique character. Besides, Fox and Marth both already had clones/semi-clones in Smash 4 with Falco and Lucina before Roy was added as DLC, so Wolf bringing nothing new to the table is not an excuse. Roy brings even fewer new things to the table and was added just because people wanted him back, but even more people wanted Wolf back. Also, Wolf is infinitely more important to his franchise than Roy... a franchise that undeservedly only has 2 reps now after having 3 in the previous game, while Fire Emblem had 4 reps before Roy was added. Basically, there's no way Wolf isn't coming back if Sakurai uses the same reasoning he did with the other DLC vets.

 

[Man God]

Don't care. Let Wolf burn if it means getting Pichu.