Support NeoGAF

[Crayolan]

For me, i'd be lovely if you controlled one IC at a time, while the other is cheering on him/her in the background, Brawl's Pokémon Trainer style. Then when the IC in play is KO'd, the other one comes cover for him/her, and so and so.

Don't know how viable it'd be, and implementation in DK's new stage would be tricky.

Why would you want to cut the IC's options in half? The whole point of the character is controlling 2 at once, which lets them do things no other characters can do.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Voting Vergil now that he's made his debut on a Nintendo platform through Project X-Zone 2.

Pretty sure he was in that Snk vs Capcom card fighter game on DS.

 

[BassForever]

It's sad that ice climbers is basically not even mentioned at this point. Such an interesting and unique character that was a part of smash for so long. Sure they may not be relevant anymore but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a place.

There are lots of characters I would love to see in smash but if I was making a roster from scratch ice climbers would have been one of my first choices.

We're not discussing Ice Climbers because their inclusion into smash or lack there of is due to technical limitation of the 3ds hard ware (and maybe due to 8 player smash on wiiu). If the 3ds could have handled ice climbers they'd already be in the game.

The only thing to discuss would be if there is a possibility of a solo popo/nana character who basically has the move set but is buffed/slightly reworked to be a solo act.

 

[Lights and Waves]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

I love you. I love this image. This is so beautiful.

 

[NeonZ]

Anyways, it's not going to happen. Many people wouldn't pay for a third person with Marth's moveset.

The same could be said about Lucas though. Ness himself isn't very popular, and Lucas is often seen as his clone from a Japan-only game that most people didn't play. Even in Japan, Mother 3 was less popular than its predecessors. Many people won't pay for him, and yet they're still making him DLC. He's presumably being added just because it should be easy to port him from Brawl.

Doesn't most of the FE fanbase (which is also huge in Japan) hate Roy?

The Western fanbase dislikes him, but Roy's game, in Japan, sold better than all FE games released after it, aside from Awakening.

 

[Ahnez]

Doesn't most of the FE fanbase (which is also huge in Japan) hate Roy? At best he'll eventually come back as an alt for Marth like Lucina was supposed to be for him.

I would say Roy's situation is something like Vaan's from Final Fantasy XII, not a terrible character, but completely overshadowed by the other games' main characters

 

[Richie]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

Pretty nifty! You also made me realize we have perfect space for another 4 characters after Mewtwo and Lucas, more than I was expecting. Also, that Ness and Lucas look like they're highfiving each other.

Holy fuck I was thinking about the same thing
Roflmao

If I wasn't a lazyballs I'd have substituted the clock with a Wii U glowing blue lol

Why would you want to cut the IC's options in half? The whole point of the character is controlling 2 at once, which lets them do things no other characters can do.

I don't -want- them in half. Ideally I'd want them as they've always been. But I love me the little guys and if they couldn't come in pair, my proposal is one way I'd accept 'em back in with open arms. What can I say? Those guys are endearing, don't want 'em absent.

 

[BassForever]

Thinking about it, Ness had no Lucas costume in spite of having his special moves as custom moves, likely due to the DLC being planned. Marth has Roy outfit colors... but those don't change his hair color. So, I guess it's fairly ambiguous (and there's still the small possibility they could just go with his Awakening costume, while both Marth's and Ike's had problems).

Anyway, I really think you're overestimating Lucas' popularity among Smash players. In spite of his unique normal moveset, it was very common to see him considered as just another clone in this forum itself. And he was from a Japan-only game on top of that. The fact that we're getting him at all suggests to me that, for returning veterans, ease to implementation is actually weighting quite a bit as far as these DLC character choices go, which is the main factor that makes me think we might get Roy too.



"One of the least popular"? Biding Blade sold more than every FE after it in Japan aside from Awakening. He's less popular among FE fans worldwide, since the games weren't localized until Blazing Sword, but his game at least was fairly popular in Japan.

You understand that just becuase Roy's game sold well in Japan does not mean Roy himself is popular among the Japanese FE fan base right? In his own game Roy is a mediocre character who can't promote until very late in the game when he gets the sword of seals 4 battles from the end.

 

[AdventureRacing]

On a slightly different note has there been much information about new stages or music. I feel like that would probably take less effort and I would almost be more keen for that than new characters. It's also a way to give representation for games or franchises which have basically been overlooked (like majoras mask).

 

[NeonZ]

You understand that just becuase Roy's game sold well in Japan does not mean Roy himself is popular among the Japanese FE fan base right? In his own game Roy is a mediocre character who can't promote until very late in the game when he gets the sword of seals 4 battles from the end.

Well, it's a better metric than to just randomly claim that he's unpopular. IS also pushed him as the leader of the FE6/7/8 combined army in Awakening's DLC (which meant that the FE6 characters were the ones getting the long allied conversations, while FE7's and 8's only had small battle quotes).

 

[TDLink]

The same could be said about Lucas though. Ness himself isn't very popular, and Lucas is often seen as his clone from a Japan-only game that most people didn't play. Even in Japan, Mother 3 was less popular than its predecessors. Many people won't pay for him, and yet they're still making him DLC. He's presumably being added just because it should be easy to port him from Brawl.

Lucas is actually pretty different though, unlike Roy. Additionally Lucas himself is somewhat popular (as is Mother 3) and has that fanbase behind him. Plus, as you say, Lucas was already in Brawl which is probably easier in terms of porting than Melee. Sakurai is also a big Mother 3 fan and likes Lucas. Roy was put into Melee to promote a new FE game.

It's a big difference.

 

[Richie]

On a slightly different note has there been much information about new stages or music. I feel like that would probably take less effort and I would almost be more keen for that than new characters. It's also a way to give representation for games or franchises which have basically been overlooked (like majoras mask).

All of my money for more stages.
N64 Pack, Melee Pack, Brawl Pack, 3DS/Wii U Version Pack.
I think it's pretty safe to assume we'll have stage DLC...
...Seeing how expensive the Mii costumes are, though, I wonder at just how much money we're looking for stage packs.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

Yea, no reason to require pages or put them on a single button or anything like that. There's plenty of room for all the characters they could ever want to add.

Thanks for this visual. I was unsure how the screen would look scaled, but it looks fine. They're actually going to have to do this long before they need to do it if they want to keep the menu order consistent, as Lucas requires an extra slot on the second row.

 

[Gravidee]

Definitely, but just like Inkling, I don't think we're going to see this happen until the next game (if at all). I think Elma would be a great second rep for Xenoblade though. I mentioned her earlier in the thread.

I'd like to see an Inkling as a character too, though the paint would probably be hard to deal with on a technical level so Sakurai would have to think hard about the moveset. Final smash could be something similar to Bowser Jr.'s I suppose. If Elma were in the game, I could see her final smash being one of the mechs from Xenoblade X. Maybe it could even be controlled in the same manner as the Landmaster tanks.

 

[Aaronrules380]

The same could be said about Lucas though. Ness himself isn't very popular, and Lucas is often seen as his clone from a Japan-only game that most people didn't play. Even in Japan, Mother 3 was less popular than its predecessors. Many people won't pay for him, and yet they're still making him DLC. He's presumably being added just because it should be easy to port him from Brawl.


The Western fanbase dislikes him, but Roy's game, in Japan, sold better than all FE games released after it, aside from Awakening.

Roy isn't really well loved in Japan either though. I mean, have you considered that the reason for the decline might be that people didn't like Roy's game much?

 

[Aaronrules380]

Well, it's a better metric than to just randomly claim that he's unpopular. IS also pushed him as the leader of the FE6/7/8 combined army in Awakening's DLC (which meant that the FE6 characters were the ones getting the long allied conversations, while FE7's and 8's only had small battle quotes).

The only reason anyone cares about Roy is because he was in smash bros once.

 

[NeonZ]

Lucas is actually pretty different though, unlike Roy.

I've had to argue in these forums themselves about how different Brawl's clones were, I know that. The impression I got from those conversations though is that the vast majority of the players don't care.

Lucas and Wolf seemed to be lumped right alongside Falco and Roy as "clones" by most people who posted on Smash's pre-release threads.

Additionally Lucas himself is somewhat popular (as is Mother 3) and has that fanbase behind him.

Binding Blade and Mother 3 sold about the same in Japan.

Plus, as you say, Lucas was already in Brawl which is probably easier in terms of porting than Melee.

They wouldn't need to port from Melee though, just tweak Marth.

Sakurai is also a big Mother 3 fan and likes Lucas. Roy was put into Melee to promote a new FE game.

Well, we don't know his opinion regarding Biding Blade specifically, but he seems to be a FE fan too. Although that vocal version of the FE theme in Brawl/SSB4 is actually based on a remix done for Binding Blade's tv promotion, and it's pretty much the only version of the FE theme in the game, not mixed with other bgm.

Roy isn't really well loved in Japan either though. I mean, have you considered that the reason for the decline might be that people didn't like Roy's game much?

Roy's game was basically a return to a more standard Fire Emblem mold, keeping some of the additions from FE4/5, like different class caps, and adding a few twists of its own, like supports, but making the overall map and unit design closer to FE3. The following games kept that mold while slowly (re)introducing other features. If FE6 had been rejected, I don't think they'd have taken that path.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I've had to argue in these forums themselves about how different Brawl's clones were, I know that. The impression I got from those conversations though is that the vast majority of the players don't care.

Lucas and Wolf seemed to be lumped right alongside Falco and Roy as "clones" by most people who posted on Smash's pre-release threads.



Binding Blade and Mother 3 sold about the same in Japan.


They wouldn't need to port from Melee though, just tweak Marth.


Well, we don't know his opinion regarding Biding Blade specifically, but he seems to be a FE fan too. That vocal version of the FE theme in Brawl/SSB4 is actually based on a remix done for Binding Blade's tv promotion.

Binding blade wasn't out when Melee was released in Japan. It was a promotional move for a game that wasn't released

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The only reason anyone cares about Roy is because he was in smash bros once.

But... there's a lot of characters that have this reason for existing in Smash. If Lucas wasn't in Brawl he would have had no chance what so ever of being DLC.

 

[Aaronrules380]

But... there's a lot of characters that have this reason for existing in Smash. If Lucas wasn't in Brawl he would have had no chance what so ever of being DLC.

The difference is Lucas has fans within his own series, and Roy doesn't

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Binding blade wasn't out when Melee was released in Japan. It was a promotional move for a game that wasn't released

Sakurai also liked the way he looked and thought his fire abilities made him stand out better from Marth than Leif.

The difference is Lucas has fans within his own series, and Roy doesn't

Is there any real measure to this? His game didn't sell badly at all and without a global release, has there been any real proof that he's particularly unliked?

Because a few Japanese discussions on DLC mention Roy often, at least from the translations I've seen.

 

[RGamer2009]

I think we will be getting 3 returning vets and 3 newcomers.

Vets include Mewtwo, Lucas, and Wolf.

My list for newcomers?

1st is King K. Rool, as he would be a unique heavy and give the DK series a much needed rep.

2nd is Ray MK I from the Custom Robo Series. His moveset would work beautifully in Smash, with guns, bombs, pods, and dash attacks rounding his moveset.

3rd is....I don't really care.

If they planned on adding another 3rd party rep, I would choose Simon Belmont from Castlevania. He is a retro character that could stand alongside Mega Man, Pac Man, and Sonic. His moveset is also not difficult to figure out with holy water, axes, and his trusty whip.

Paper Mario would be a unique Mario rep representing the RPG series using his partners, hammer and paper moves in battle.

If they wanted to be awesome, they could add ExciteBiker, another old school Nintendo Rep. He was actually briefly considered for Melee, but was replaced with the Ice Climbers instead.

 

[woopWOOP]

Roy already shares animations with Marth and like (Melee) Falco/Ganondorf plays pretty differently from Fox/C.Falcon (Lucina still plays way too similar to Marth).

I can see Roy getting in.
I'd end up throwing down 5 bucks to play him too. Hooray for veterans!

It's too bad he missed the Brawl boat tho, so big chance IF he becomes DLC they'll make sure he'll be a 1:1 copy of his Melee self without any extra changes (but atleast he'll keep his good old B-neutral then).

 

[Jaeger]

Voted for Ridley.

 

[NeonZ]

The difference is Lucas has fans within his own series, and Roy doesn't

I like how Roy's unpopularity is apparently an obvious assertion that doesn't need any kind of proof.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/afej/k_tohyo/index.html

At the time his game was released, at least, Roy won the official popularity poll among characters from his own game.

 

[L Thammy]

I feel like the profit that can be earned off of Roy DLC is pretty high. I've repeatedly heard that Melee vets are more requested than newcomers in Japan, and I'm sure Japan's not the only place with Melee nostalgia. Meanwhile, Roy can probably reuse a lot of animations. Sakurai's previously said that they don't need to spend as much time balancing clone characters as well.

So, I wouldn't be super surprised to see Roy brought back just because it's easy to do. Hopefully it will be in his Awakening costume because Kimihiko Fujisaka is fantastic. (It won't be though.)

I like how Roy's unpopularity is apparently an obvious assertion that doesn't need any kind of proof.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/afej/k_tohyo/index.html

At the time his game was released, at least, Roy won the official popularity poll among characters from his own game.

Aren't the lords always the most popular characters in their own games? That doesn't do much to prove that he isn't unpopular among the other lords in the series, or that he's popular among Smash fans.

 

[NeonZ]

Aren't the lords always the most popular characters in their own games? That doesn't do much to prove that he isn't unpopular among the other lords in the series, or that he's popular among Smash fans.

Like I had mentioned above though, Roy's game sold better than most of the FE games released afterwards in Japan, aside from Awakening (it also sold better than FE5). And he was the most popular character there. So, there isn't much space for him to be this despised character compared to other lords...

Anyway, here's solid proof. Popularity ranking of Awakening's bonus characters among Japanese players. This was published in the "Knights of Iris" book and is from the same poll that IS used to decide who'd get the pictures in Awakening's beach and hotsprings DLC, although it was a separate category.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=39475&p=2361751

1 - Marth
2 - Lyn
3 - Roy
4 - Eirika
5 - Sigurd
6 - Alm
7 - Ephraim
8 - Seliph
9 - Leif
10 - Ike

So, not counting Awakening characters, Roy loses to Lyn and Marth, but beats everyone else according to Fire Emblem's Japanese fanbase (Awakening had 120 characters from previous games, so the choices cover almost every popular character aside from a few exceptions). Of course, this is the "FE" fanbase.

 

[Azure J]

Whoa, Lyn is that top tier? Japan with the awesome calls.

Spoiler

Marth, Lyn, Ike & Hector dabess.

 

[L Thammy]

Ah, that's better. I wasn't disagreeing with your conclusion, I just don't think the Binding Blade poll was sufficient proof. What's more surprising than Roy being so high is Lyn, considering that that Rekka no Ken wasn't the first game in the series over there.

 

[jph139]

It's worth noting that Lucas - and Mother 3 in general - isn't as popular in Japan as Ness (and Earthbound). In general it's sort of an afterthought in comparison; I'm not familiar enough with Fire Emblem to say how Roy compares specifically, but I think they're in a similar boat. They're both Japan exclusive characters that were from relatively unpopular sequels that are widely perceived to be clones. If one can get in, I don't see why the other couldn't.

He's not really on my radar/wishlist at all, but I think he's second only to Wolf as far as Veteran DLC likelihood goes.

Wolf > Roy > Squirtle > Ivysaur > Pichu > Ice Climbers > Young Link

(I have no idea where Snake would factor into this at all.)

 

[GamerSoul]

Whoa, Lyn is that top tier? Japan with the awesome calls.

Spoiler

Marth, Lyn, Ike & Hector dabess.

That is impressive for what some would call a "tutorial Lord" . Imo, she really stands out compared to the other Lords in terms of style and story. I'm glad Japan sees that. Iirc, one of the upcoming FE games has another katana user as a main Lord . I wonder how he'll stack up against her Mani/Sol Katti skills. heh

 

[IntelliHeath]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

I really hope that they would rearranging clone corner with their proper franchise. I wonder what they would look like if they actually got rearranged in their proper placements.

 

[Neiteio]

I like the clone corner. Feels more right having them there, since they're more like slightly modified alternate versions of existing characters, anyways.

And man, I really want Wolf back. Trying not to expect him, since I don't want to set myself up for possible disappointment. But man, an E3 reveal with him and Star Fox WiiU would be perfect.

 

[Sponge]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

That's perfect. I would love if this was the final roster. Only character I could possibly think of that I'd want after this would be Bandana Dee.

 

[Bluth54]

All of my money for more stages.
N64 Pack, Melee Pack, Brawl Pack, 3DS/Wii U Version Pack.
I think it's pretty safe to assume we'll have stage DLC...
...Seeing how expensive the Mii costumes are, though, I wonder at just how much money we're looking for stage packs.

I really hope we have stage DLC, most of the stages in the Wii U game are not that great and it badly needs some good stages.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I really hope that they would rearranging clone corner with their proper franchise. I wonder what they would look like if they actually got rearranged in their proper placements.

It would be a tight fit. As much as I want it, having Lucina, Dark Pit and Lucas all in the same row would be pretty hard to figure out how to do.

I do wish there wasn't a clone corner though. They feel weird there and it's messy. Melee had the right idea with their clone placement, they even managed to logically get Ganondorf next to Falcon without it looking out of place.

 

[Green Mamba]

I don't think equivocating Lucas with Roy is correct at all. Lucas is the second Earthbound character period, which alone makes him more novel than a fifth Fire Emblem character who is also a second clone of Marth and the fourth straight Fire Emblem swordsman. I really do see Roy as a pretty hard sell, which is important when it comes to DLC.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

And man, I really want Wolf back. Trying not to expect him, since I don't want to set myself up for possible disappointment. But man, an E3 reveal with him and Star Fox WiiU would be perfect.

I can't really imagine Wolf not being DLC. It would just be way out of the ordinary to not have him, with Star Fox U coming out, him being super popular, a unique moveset, and just because he's Wolf, an important character in an important series who was planned for Melee and added to Brawl and it feels like he needs to be in Smash.

Orbital Gate was also designed in a way that doesn't exclude Wolf as DLC. They seem to have specifically planned the dialog assuming Wolf could potentially come back.

 

[Karsticles]

I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

Nice work. I wish Ridley were here, but this is a great roster.

I wonder how Nintendo is planning on Smash 4 DLC and the new Nintendo system being unveiled this year working together. I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 5 brought most of the Smash 4 assets over, and they had the biggest roster ever. At least, that's what they'll do if they are smart.

 

[Crocodile]

But... Lucas. You could have said the same thing before he was announced and now he's the most hyped character, like, ever.

A Japanese only, niche, character with a move set based on another character already in the game, with a small, but dedicated group of fans.

Who does that describe, Lucas or Roy?

Lucas was more important to Brawl than Roy was to Melee in terms of content and representation. More people have probably played and owned Brawl than Melee (I'm including the causal audience here of course). Mother 3 is more notorious amongst English speaking players than Roy's game due to the efforts of the Starmen crew. Lucas also isn't a clone - way too many people get their underwear in a twist over clones and I can guarantee that you'd get similar complaints if Roy were back (though of course some would be happy). I'm not convinced they are as similar as you think they are. Not saying Roy has zero chance of course but I really don't think Nintendo stands to gain as much bringing him back as Lucas or Wolf.

Looks like the patch is coming at 4AM est, or around then
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32d0kc/smash_wii_u_3ds_online_services_will_be_down_from/

There better be fucking patch notes Nintendo........

 

[Neiteio]

Nice work. I wish Ridley were here, but this is a great roster.

I wonder how Nintendo is planning on Smash 4 DLC and the new Nintendo system being unveiled this year working together. I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 5 brought most of the Smash 4 assets over, and they had the biggest roster ever. At least, that's what they'll do if they are smart.

I guess I missed the news, but Nintendo said they're unveiling a new handheld or console this year?

 

[Fandangox]

Looks like the patch is coming at 4AM est, or around then
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/32d0kc/smash_wii_u_3ds_online_services_will_be_down_from/

My only regret is that I never got to record all my Falcon Punches.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Yea, no reason to require pages or put them on a single button or anything like that. There's plenty of room for all the characters they could ever want to add.

Thanks for this visual. I was unsure how the screen would look scaled, but it looks fine. They're actually going to have to do this long before they need to do it if they want to keep the menu order consistent, as Lucas requires an extra slot on the second row.

Unless Lucas gets.. *shudder* ...put in the clone corner.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I don't think equivocating Lucas with Roy is correct at all. Lucas is the second Earthbound character period, which alone makes him more novel than a fifth Fire Emblem character who is also a second clone of Marth and the fourth straight Fire Emblem swordsman. I really do see Roy as a pretty hard sell, which is important when it comes to DLC.

Melee nostalgia is a hell of a drug, though, and not something to underestimate.

 

[Karsticles]

I guess I missed the news, but Nintendo said they're unveiling a new handheld or console this year?

Supposedly. It was discussed at the same time as Nintendo purchasing a mobile developer.

 

[Village]

Get out of here with your innovative solutions

Aww man.

* takes his mortal kombat X with its eventual scrolling CSS and leaves*

 

[Hatchtag]

I guess I missed the news, but Nintendo said they're unveiling a new handheld or console this year?

Man, Sakurai still working on Smash makes me less hyped for the likely NX reveal at E3 2016. No way it's gonna have a hype as hell trailer for a new Sakurai game as the first thing shown for it .

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I like the clone corner. Feels more right having them there, since they're more like slightly modified alternate versions of existing characters, anyways.

And man, I really want Wolf back. Trying not to expect him, since I don't want to set myself up for possible disappointment. But man, an E3 reveal with him and Star Fox WiiU would be perfect.

Neiteio, just imagine the introductory splash image

"WOLF
can't let you do that!"

 

[Crocodile]

I guess I missed the news, but Nintendo said they're unveiling a new handheld or console this year?

They only mentioned the "NX" to make it clear they were still actively in the dedicated video game hardware business during the mobile conference. There is no expectation we will learn more about what the "NX" is this year.

 

[GamerJM]

Supposedly. It was discussed at the same time as Nintendo purchasing a mobile developer.

They said they're unveiling it next year, though I could see them going back on their word.