fixed it up for ya
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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
fixed it up for ya
So I decided to go ahead a post my idea for Isaac's move set. Feel free to disregard in case someone posted a better one.
Normals
For starters, since Isaac and the other warrior characters in the game can use swords, axes, and maces, maybe Isaac could have all 3 incorporated into his normal attacks:
Light Combo: Single-hit with either 1.) a light sword, would be similar to Marth/Lucy's or 2.) a long sword, would cause more knockback and damage (think Dorf's punch).
Forward tilt: Quick strike with a mace.
Forward Smash: A jumping slash in the vein of his critical hit animation from the games. Large arc, could potentially hit short hopping opponents at the cost of vulnerability during the jumping animation.
Up: Straight upward hit with the mace.
Up-Smash: Slow swing with an axe. Powerful, but slow start up.
Down: Scoop Psyenergy - Small hand scoops up dirt, causes small pop up damage.
Down-Smash: Earthquake Psyenergy - Isaac pounds the ground with his fist, causing pillars on both sides of him to rise up, causing pop-up. Was debating on making Earthquake his side-b, dunno what you guys think.
Aerials
Neutral: Thorn Psyenergy - Similar to ZS Samus, whips a briar in front of him.
Forward: Big axe swing, would probably spike.
Back: Backward slash with a light sword.
Up: Catch Psyenergy - Isaac shoots a hand out at an upward angle. If the hand catches an enemy, it'll throw them straight down. Not sure about this, maybe straight up or forward?
Down: Swing with a mace, similar to Marth's swing, would cause pop up at larger damage percentages.
Okay, so here's the big idea I wanted to pitch at you guys:
Djinn System
The Djinn system would strictly affect Isaac's specials (my attempt at balancing him). To begin:
Down B: Flint ->Granite->Petra->Bane
Isaac would have 4 yellow djinn symbols above his hp meter a la Little Mac, one for each djinni. In the games, the djinn have 3 modes: Set (Ready to use), Standby (The Djinni's been used and can either be manually set at the cost of a turn, or saved as a stock for a summon) and Recovery (djinni was used for a summon, will auto set in a set amount of turns). For Smash, Isaac gets one use of each djinn, in that order I listed. After using all four, you have to wait for a awhile before you can Down B again.
Now hear me out. At the cost of essentially gaining an extra 4 specials, each djinni use reduces the power of the other specials. When all 4 are gone, they lose a significant amount of strength and would do no knockback - the Up-B's pretty much only good for recovery. This would not affect his normals, but the recovery time for the Down-B would be long, maybe 30 seconds - a minute. Curious as to what you guys think of this system.
Flint: Powerful single slash, stronger than a smash attack.
Granite: Increased defense, a la Shulk's Shield Art
Petra: Completely stuns enemy by turning them to stone. Enemy has to mash to get out, leaving them open for attack.
Edit: Sorry, forgot Bane!
Bane: Weak hit, but causes poison damage over time.
As for the rest:
Neutral B: Gaia Psyenergy - Causes a tiny stream of light to appear. Holding the button down would allow you to move the light around to aim the attack. Releasing the button causes a column of energy and rocks to rise upwards. Only works on solid surfaces.
4 Djinn = Grand Gaia (Large blast radius, big pop up) 2djinn = Mother G. (medium radius, reduced damage, slight pop up) 0 djinn = Gaia (light damage, no pop up).
Forward B: Move Psyenegy - Same as his AT version; pushes enemy back, does no damage.
4 = Almost full-screen, pushes enemy very far, 2 = Medium range, 0 = Very short distance, hand disappears almost as soon as you attack.
Up-B: 2 ideas:
Growth Psyenergy: Tether, similar to Ivysaur's & ZS Samus'.
4 = Vine can tether onto opponents, similar effect to Falcon's Falcon Dive. 2 = Vine loses grabbing effect on opponents, can still do damage. 0 = No damage at all, only good for recovery.
Spire Psyenergy: Isaac rides on top of pointed stone spires. Use the control stick to move around. Press B again to drop the spires. After a short time, the spires will automatically drop, along with Isaac.
4 = Stone Spire(Powerful, pops enemy up) 2 = Clay Spire (Less Damage) 0 = Low damage, no pop up).
Sorry for the wall of text. If I get around to it, I'd like to include drawings like some other fine people did for Andy, K.Rool and the like. Anyway, feel free to discuss/ignore!
Normals
For starters, since Isaac and the other warrior characters in the game can use swords, axes, and maces, maybe Isaac could have all 3 incorporated into his normal attacks:
Light Combo: Single-hit with either 1.) a light sword, would be similar to Marth/Lucy's or 2.) a long sword, would cause more knockback and damage (think Dorf's punch).
Forward tilt: Quick strike with a mace.
Forward Smash: A jumping slash in the vein of his critical hit animation from the games. Large arc, could potentially hit short hopping opponents at the cost of vulnerability during the jumping animation.
Up: Straight upward hit with the mace.
Up-Smash: Slow swing with an axe. Powerful, but slow start up.
Down: Scoop Psyenergy - Small hand scoops up dirt, causes small pop up damage.
Down-Smash: Earthquake Psyenergy - Isaac pounds the ground with his fist, causing pillars on both sides of him to rise up, causing pop-up. Was debating on making Earthquake his side-b, dunno what you guys think.
Aerials
Neutral: Thorn Psyenergy - Similar to ZS Samus, whips a briar in front of him.
Forward: Big axe swing, would probably spike.
Back: Backward slash with a light sword.
Up: Catch Psyenergy - Isaac shoots a hand out at an upward angle. If the hand catches an enemy, it'll throw them straight down. Not sure about this, maybe straight up or forward?
Down: Swing with a mace, similar to Marth's swing, would cause pop up at larger damage percentages.
Okay, so here's the big idea I wanted to pitch at you guys:
Djinn System
The Djinn system would strictly affect Isaac's specials (my attempt at balancing him). To begin:
Down B: Flint ->Granite->Petra->Bane
Isaac would have 4 yellow djinn symbols above his hp meter a la Little Mac, one for each djinni. In the games, the djinn have 3 modes: Set (Ready to use), Standby (The Djinni's been used and can either be manually set at the cost of a turn, or saved as a stock for a summon) and Recovery (djinni was used for a summon, will auto set in a set amount of turns). For Smash, Isaac gets one use of each djinn, in that order I listed. After using all four, you have to wait for a awhile before you can Down B again.
Now hear me out. At the cost of essentially gaining an extra 4 specials, each djinni use reduces the power of the other specials. When all 4 are gone, they lose a significant amount of strength and would do no knockback - the Up-B's pretty much only good for recovery. This would not affect his normals, but the recovery time for the Down-B would be long, maybe 30 seconds - a minute. Curious as to what you guys think of this system.
Flint: Powerful single slash, stronger than a smash attack.
Granite: Increased defense, a la Shulk's Shield Art
Petra: Completely stuns enemy by turning them to stone. Enemy has to mash to get out, leaving them open for attack.
Edit: Sorry, forgot Bane!
Bane: Weak hit, but causes poison damage over time.
As for the rest:
Neutral B: Gaia Psyenergy - Causes a tiny stream of light to appear. Holding the button down would allow you to move the light around to aim the attack. Releasing the button causes a column of energy and rocks to rise upwards. Only works on solid surfaces.
4 Djinn = Grand Gaia (Large blast radius, big pop up) 2djinn = Mother G. (medium radius, reduced damage, slight pop up) 0 djinn = Gaia (light damage, no pop up).
Forward B: Move Psyenegy - Same as his AT version; pushes enemy back, does no damage.
4 = Almost full-screen, pushes enemy very far, 2 = Medium range, 0 = Very short distance, hand disappears almost as soon as you attack.
Up-B: 2 ideas:
Growth Psyenergy: Tether, similar to Ivysaur's & ZS Samus'.
4 = Vine can tether onto opponents, similar effect to Falcon's Falcon Dive. 2 = Vine loses grabbing effect on opponents, can still do damage. 0 = No damage at all, only good for recovery.
Spire Psyenergy: Isaac rides on top of pointed stone spires. Use the control stick to move around. Press B again to drop the spires. After a short time, the spires will automatically drop, along with Isaac.
4 = Stone Spire(Powerful, pops enemy up) 2 = Clay Spire (Less Damage) 0 = Low damage, no pop up).
Sorry for the wall of text. If I get around to it, I'd like to include drawings like some other fine people did for Andy, K.Rool and the like. Anyway, feel free to discuss/ignore!
Starphoenix
Member
That balance patch comes out this week as well, right?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Edited: Never mind. It wouldn't work.
Dimitri LH
Member
Supposedly, the diddy shall fall.....
by giving him the random brawl tripping mechanic that has a 50% of activating even if hes just standing still......too evil?
Starphoenix
Member
Cool. Just wanted to double check. I'm actually really excited for this patch. Never thought the day would come. Guess I'd just enjoy seeing what new changes are made to the characters since I've been playing around with so many of them lately.
Karsticles
Member
Ah, mea culpa!
balladofwindfishes
Member
I have a feeling some untapped character is just waiting for this patch to nerf Diddy and not touch them so they can rise up and get their chance.
I have good feelings about Mii Brawler. I don't think they'll touch him, balance wise, but I can easily see him rising up to take Diddy's place. There's something brewing with Mii Brawler, from what I've seen, his biggest weakness is a lack of use and confusion over whether tournaments should allow Miiss or not, not any major flaw with his abilities.
Once everything becomes standardized and Miis are more common and allowed more frequently at tournaments, I think Mii Brawler has the potential to rise up to Diddy level and be the new Diddy.
I have good feelings about Mii Brawler. I don't think they'll touch him, balance wise, but I can easily see him rising up to take Diddy's place. There's something brewing with Mii Brawler, from what I've seen, his biggest weakness is a lack of use and confusion over whether tournaments should allow Miiss or not, not any major flaw with his abilities.
Once everything becomes standardized and Miis are more common and allowed more frequently at tournaments, I think Mii Brawler has the potential to rise up to Diddy level and be the new Diddy.
Dimitri LH
Member
Still crossing my fingers that this patch is more of a "buff a lot of people" patch instead of "nerf Diddy and a few others" patch.
Exciting times are ahead
Same here, as much fun as I having joking about diddy, im actually okay with the current balance atm....its not perfect but its alright.
PadWarrior
Member
Still crossing my fingers that this patch is more of a "buff a lot of people" patch instead of "nerf Diddy and a few others" patch.
Exciting times are ahead
I want Mario to get armor on all his moves.
Oh man, it's too perfect
Dimitri LH
Member
.........
[INTERNALLY SCREAMS]
Friggin down throw comboes and humongous up smash hitbox......mumble grumble.
I could be happier with some lower tiers getting some buffs *my goddess!*, but yeah overall the balance is pretty decent.
Dear god....Mario for Top Tier. That would be disgusting!
I'm glad the patch doesn't worry me too much now that I use so many different characters. In previous games I used to mostly play Pikachu in competitive matches but now I'll alternate between Pikachu, Zelda, Peach, Lucina, Jigglypuff, Mr. Game & Watch, Kirby, Yoshi, Falco and more... I'm sure they won't ALL be nerfed...
Right? Sakurai pls
PadWarrior
Member
Troubled Bat
Member
You bastard! You just doomed Kirby and Falco for me!
It has ridiculous end lag as well and hits so fucking hard. Freaking Mario...
Starphoenix
Member
Same here. I use R.O.B, Ike, Shulk, Mega Man, Yoshi, Little Mac, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Capt. Falcon, Villager, and Sonic; so my list of options are pretty good if one of them get the stick.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
What's that? I have all sorts of things to do but don't wanna do them yet? I'll make some movesets then because I can. With crude drawings too!
Dixie I imagined playing as someone who can stun opponents a lot, but has drawbacks if you don't land the attack. Along with that she has mad air game, as she does in the DKC games. Her standard attacks would use her hair of course.
B standard - Bubble Gun would stun from afar, but like Diddy's Peanut Pop Gun it can explode and leave her stunned instead.
B Up - Summoning a special barrel that shoots her into the air and then lets her glide down with her hair. Can't use any attacks, but can dodge- leaving you open until you get back on stage.
B over - Using her hair she spins like a helicopter sideways, ramming into opponents for damage and stun. If she misses though, she's left stunned for a short time instead from being dizzy.
B Down - Using her hair she ground pounds like DK, but instead of damage it stuns opponents. Don't get above her, the hair can cause damage as it goes up!
Final - Grabbing her opponent with her hair she stuns them, grabs her barrel blast and punches them with a mighty force with the blasters.
K Rool has some decent air game too, with all that hopping around he does. For a heavyweight, he can do decent while in the air. His standard attacks are reminiscent of Bowser and Charizard, but with the kind of flair you'd only find with K Rool.
B standard -- your typical crown throw
B up - using a helicopter (as he did as a mad scientist) he gets a short lift. The helicopter does minor damage if you get caught in the blades.
B down - Similar to Bowser's down special, he leaps in the air and belly flops onto the ground. Depending on where you are below him depends on the damage. If you hit B multiple times, he can bounce when he hits the ground.
B over - Cannonballs are dangerous! K Rool scrunches up and goes forward in the air as though he was launched by his own cannon. But be careful, if you hit a wall you take recoil and if you land on the stage, you're left vulnerable. Get up as fast as you can.
Final - Taking out the blunderbuss for a short time, you can use all that's at your arsenal. Gas, spiked cannonballs, or fly around on it and damage opponents as you run into them.
For the record, I endorse no one. If I'm bored later, maybe I'll do some more crude drawings.
Dixie I imagined playing as someone who can stun opponents a lot, but has drawbacks if you don't land the attack. Along with that she has mad air game, as she does in the DKC games. Her standard attacks would use her hair of course.
B standard - Bubble Gun would stun from afar, but like Diddy's Peanut Pop Gun it can explode and leave her stunned instead.
B Up - Summoning a special barrel that shoots her into the air and then lets her glide down with her hair. Can't use any attacks, but can dodge- leaving you open until you get back on stage.
B over - Using her hair she spins like a helicopter sideways, ramming into opponents for damage and stun. If she misses though, she's left stunned for a short time instead from being dizzy.
B Down - Using her hair she ground pounds like DK, but instead of damage it stuns opponents. Don't get above her, the hair can cause damage as it goes up!
Final - Grabbing her opponent with her hair she stuns them, grabs her barrel blast and punches them with a mighty force with the blasters.
K Rool has some decent air game too, with all that hopping around he does. For a heavyweight, he can do decent while in the air. His standard attacks are reminiscent of Bowser and Charizard, but with the kind of flair you'd only find with K Rool.
B standard -- your typical crown throw
B up - using a helicopter (as he did as a mad scientist) he gets a short lift. The helicopter does minor damage if you get caught in the blades.
B down - Similar to Bowser's down special, he leaps in the air and belly flops onto the ground. Depending on where you are below him depends on the damage. If you hit B multiple times, he can bounce when he hits the ground.
B over - Cannonballs are dangerous! K Rool scrunches up and goes forward in the air as though he was launched by his own cannon. But be careful, if you hit a wall you take recoil and if you land on the stage, you're left vulnerable. Get up as fast as you can.
Final - Taking out the blunderbuss for a short time, you can use all that's at your arsenal. Gas, spiked cannonballs, or fly around on it and damage opponents as you run into them.
For the record, I endorse no one. If I'm bored later, maybe I'll do some more crude drawings.
PadWarrior
Member
Taken 4 LOL
Starphoenix
Member
I swear the more I see out of K. Rool supporters from GAF and Smashboards the more I'm convinced this is becoming a kult for people.
Dimitri LH
Member
Gonzo The Great
Banned
balladofwindfishes
Member
K Rool's fans feel like the Geno cult, except K Rool actually stands a chance to be added.
I haven't really seen this much push for a character since the Brawl days
I haven't really seen this much push for a character since the Brawl days
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
what about those rabbits Nintendo like to use
Starphoenix
Member
A Mother fan like yourself shouldn't be insulting people for being passionate.
Difference between passion and... Those videos. Also, I am a fan who happens to like EarthBound, not a Mother fan. Big difference. >_>
Put_Brawl_Marf_In_Smash_4
astarisborn94
Member
One idea I have for King K. Rool is Kredits as a Final Smash. After King K. Rool plays dead, a parody of the Super Smash Bros. 3DS & Wii U credit scene is used which damage opponents and can send them flying off the stage at high enough damage. It's a really unique idea that I'd loved to see implemented should he gets in and it's a popular idea in the Kremling Kutthroats thread on Smashboards.
This is why I am putting my push towards characters on King K. Rool; he's the last newcomer I'm interested in that has a shot of getting in a Smash game and if he doesn't get in, I'm pretty sure Nintendo won't be looking at Bomberman, Ray, or Ridley anytime soon.
Also I'm not going to concern myself over the CSS and how it would affect the roster. Nintendo and Sakurai will add as little or as much as they feel is worth the effort.
What I myself would love to see is a Mega Man music pack containing music not just from Classic, but also X, Battle Network, and other subseries. I would instantly buy that even if they charged high price.
Same here. As much as I'd liked to see Banjo-Kazooie playable (the first game was one of the first five games I remember playing and Banjo-Tootie would probably be in my Top 5 N64 games), there is no way I can see Microsoft or Nintendo working out something to get Banjo-Kazooie in Smash; plus I have a feeling Spencer only said it because it would promote Banjo-Kazooie on Xbox.
This is why I am putting my push towards characters on King K. Rool; he's the last newcomer I'm interested in that has a shot of getting in a Smash game and if he doesn't get in, I'm pretty sure Nintendo won't be looking at Bomberman, Ray, or Ridley anytime soon.
Well we did get two themes of Tetris in Brawl and Smash Wii U. What I would love to see is a Tetris stage thought; I'm half-surprised we didn't get that.
Same here; I'm impressed by how well this is. My favorite is the Lord Fredrik skin which I would use if that got in alongside King K. Rool.Someone did some really cool color palettes for K. Rool. I feel like Sakurai would do something different, but I think these are well done.
Like I said, I am thinking we will get five or six characters including Mewtwo and Lucas. I am betting on Wolf and two more newcomers being added. I also expect Wolf to be confirmed at E3 and two to three characters to be added after E3 with hopefully one of them coming out of the ballot. Should a second DLC be shown at E3 thought; my expectations will be six or seven characters. Five to seven characters seems pretty realistic to me.
Also I'm not going to concern myself over the CSS and how it would affect the roster. Nintendo and Sakurai will add as little or as much as they feel is worth the effort.
I don't think we'll just be getting one newcomer. Given how long this poll is lasting (half a year for this poll), I don't think they would be taking suggestions from fans for so long just to put in one newcomer. If we were to get four, I'd agreed, but more than that and I can't see us getting a fourth veteran over a second newcomer; let alone four veterans instead of a newcomer. I do think that if we get six thought that a fourth veteran is more likely than a third newcomer.
No more playable Miis. I'm already disappointed by how uninteresting the Mii Fighters are; I don't want anymore Miis; especially if they also feel generic.
Not that I expect this to happen, but this looks really nice. I actually have tried to organized the same CSS without the clone corner but it didn't turn out well.I did a quick select screen mockup using my top four requests, keeping the same ordering method as the regular game (chronological multi-reps, chronological one-offs, last minute clones). I hate the “clone corner,” but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
This is my third most wanted newcomer for DLC. I've always thought that Custom Robo would be a great fit for Smash and I love robot characters. Like with Bomberman and Squirtle, I would actually campaign for them if I felt they had more than a wet fart chance of getting in.2nd is Ray MK I from the Custom Robo Series. His moveset would work beautifully in Smash, with guns, bombs, pods, and dash attacks rounding his moveset.
One thing worth noting is that every other massive fan base characters either already got their characters (Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Lucas), is almost certainly getting it (Wolf), or is not happening as DLC (Ridley which already collapsed to a large extent). Now that we know the outcome of Mewtwo, Lucas, Ridley, and probably Wolf, these fan bases are lending their support towards King K. Rool as he's the last one with such a huge fan base. If there is any fan base that could get their character in due to the ballot, it is King K. Rool. Any other plausible additions would be added due to other reasons (unless we factor in veterans but that's a different story entirely).
Nintendojitsu
Banned
Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
That looks really nice
I really want that puppet.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Brawl Marf: Mall Cop.
Masked Man
I said wow
Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
Looks gorgeous! This would really be the perfect Smash.
Bacon_Boss
Member
I still really want Chrom, but i'd want him to be a unique character. My concept:
Chrom, Lance Lord
Lance + Shield(you know which shield).
Would be even more tip damage heavy but i wouldn't mind him knocking people around with the side of the thing, no throwing though.
His final smash could be:
Training Accident
Chrom Blindfolds himself and swings Falchion to his left and right, hitting random pieces of furniture, sending splinters to all sides of the stage. First he hits a training dummy, then a bed, finally he nails Frederick square in the back shattering his armor for full a final, strongest rain of shrapnel.
Chrom, Lance Lord
Lance + Shield(you know which shield).
Would be even more tip damage heavy but i wouldn't mind him knocking people around with the side of the thing, no throwing though.
His final smash could be:
Training Accident
Chrom Blindfolds himself and swings Falchion to his left and right, hitting random pieces of furniture, sending splinters to all sides of the stage. First he hits a training dummy, then a bed, finally he nails Frederick square in the back shattering his armor for full a final, strongest rain of shrapnel.
Can you move Yoshi away from the middle of the Mario section?Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
I'm happy to see someone understand how the CSS works, haha. It bugs me when I see people add characters randomly because they don't see the pattern.Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Why would they need to be in the same row? So long as the multi-rep series and single-rep series are in chronological order independent of each other, the select screen can accommodate literally any roster possibility. It's impossible to break that "pattern," which is probably why Sakurai chose it in the first place -- future proofing the game for any potential DLC.
Ignore the sloppiness of certain tiles:
Thanks! It look pretty good but I doubt that it would happens. I have a weird feeling that we are going to get DLC button that would work just same as Mii Button.
It's still not perfect, there are other issues such as Yoshi being mashed in the middle of the Mario characters, Rosalina being in front of Bowser Jr, and the Pokemon not being listed by Pokedex number (other than Pikachu who should always be in front).
I don't understand how they could do this when everything else about the screen is so well thought-out.
astarisborn94
Member
That is such a good picture. I wonder what the responses are.
Masked Man
I said wow
Ah, by "perfect" I just meant regarding the roster itself--although I would certainly love a playable Captain Toad.
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