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Sonic CD (Retro Engine) |OT| Where We're Going, We Don't Need Backbone

A

AgentOtaku

Member
Bought PS3 version. OMG everytime I hear that opening to Palm Tree Zone with the children cheering, I grin like a little kid (^___^)

Such an amazing port that i'm almost tempted to buy on 360 just to give more monies and send the right message.
 
S

Suairyu

Banned
So not only is the special stage framerate decent now, but the UFO scaling is accurate. Thank fuck for that. Took me a moment to adjust as I'd previously been using the trick (wait until it looks like it's just behind you) to judge when to jump into a UFO.
 
E

Eric C

Member
The Xtortionist said:
OK, I just beat it for the first time. Relax guys, I've been out of town.

This might just be the best re-release of a classic game ever. I played with the "sharp" graphics filter and everything looked amazing. Dare I say Sonic's sprite almost looked like it was made in native HD. "Smooth" was a bit blurry, and "nostalgic" was obviously pixelated (but not bad). Framerate was godlike. And the fact that the game has both soundtracks is ridiculous in of itself. Finally, even the achievements look like a labor of love from someone who knows the game very well.

Taxman and whoever else worked on this outdid themselves. I almost feel guilty for only paying $5. If I frequently played on other platforms, I'd happily double-dip just to say "thanks for doing a great game justice in an era of cheap cash-ins".

Ruby, I hope you're listening because I want you to personally tell the Sonic CD/Retro Engine team I said "thanks", and tell the higher-ups at Sega to devote a team to creating content on this engine. Old games (S3&K?), new games (a real Sonic 4), I don't even care. The tech is great and deserves a lot of love. Don't let it go to waste.

thank you based taxman
Click to expand...

Both. I want the all the old games remade with the Retro Engine in 16X9 and 60fps.

Since Sega already used the "Sonic 4" name maybe they should instead make "Sonic and Knuckles 2" with the Retro Engine. Or maybe even "Sonic CD 2". Then Sega could just let "Sonic 4" die a quiet death. I only hope Taxman is just as good at designing levels as he was at getting the physics perfect, it would've been nice to see that new stage he was designing for "Sonic CD".

I still think Sega should've saved the "Sonic 4" name for a 4-player game similar to NSMBW or Rayman Origins

RagnarokX said:
I wish there was a mix and match option for the soundtracks.

Intro and Ending/Credits = US
Everything else = JP
Click to expand...
YES THIS ^

SEGA PATCH THE GAME TO HAVE THIS COMBO MUSIC OPTION!
 
Q

qq more

Member
Wow, I think an enemy survived the robot generator destruction. Faced that one pink enemy with spikes on top in the fourth level in the present.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
qq more said:
Wow, I think an enemy survived the robot generator destruction. Faced that one pink enemy with spikes on top in the fourth level in the present.
Click to expand...

I believe destroying the generator only gets rid of most enemies in the present.
In the future there are absolutely none.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
As soon as I started the game and watched the intro...I had to try to force myself to stop smiling. But I couldn't! I had the biggest smile on my face. Is there something wrong with me? :(
 
B

Ben Morales

Member
Say what you will about the US soundtrack, but I love it! I haven't heard it in a while and it still holds up IMO. Some songs remind me of Tangerine Dream or Brian Eno.
 
M

MechaX

Member
The funny thing about Wacky Workbench is that if you added in bottomless pits, you would essentially have a modern/dimps Sonic level.

Also, man, Metallic Madness Act 3 kinda kicked my ass.

And these physics... Holy fucking shit, momentum actually mattering? I missed this kind of shit in Sonic games.
 
V

vid

Member
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
 
I

iavi

Member
vid said:
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
Click to expand...

No, you get it. You just don't like it.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
andymcc said:
you know, until your review, it never really occurred to me that there is actually only one bottomless pit in the game. lol
Click to expand...

Most of the classic games didn't have them. Sonic 2 had a few and Sonic 3 & Knuckles had even less. Heck, even Sonic 1 didn't have that many. But then 3D came along and it was pit city.
 
B

Ben Morales

Member
vid said:
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
Click to expand...

It took me a while to love this game. I liked exploring in previous Sonic games but I really enjoyed trying to for speed records. In this game, you are meant to explore every nook and cranny of the huge levels. Once I made myself forget about speed, and focus on exploration and precision (for those pesky enemies), it became a log of fun for me. And if you want to play for speed, just hit up Time Attack mode so you don't have to worry about time travel.
 
A

Alphahawk

Member
Just beat it (Bad ending): It's interesting. I actually kind of like the fact that the levels purposely make it hard for Sonic through time, it adds kind of a metagame on top of the whole thing. That said a lot of the level design is just bad, Metallic Madness is challenging for all the wrong reasons. Honestly some of the levels feel like rom hacks,the way elements are just haphazardly thrown together without any consideration or whether it makes sense or not.

On the bright side The bosses are interesting and the special stages kick ass. Sonic CD is not the best entry in the franchise but it's still a cool cliffnote in Sonic's history.
 
S

secretanchitman

Member
vid said:
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
Click to expand...

and here i am thinking i was the only one that didnt "get it." looks like sonic 3 is still my favorite sonic game of all time.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
vid said:
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
Click to expand...

No, you're right. Sonic CD was hyped as the Holy Grail of Sonic games even back in the day, and I believed the hype until I bought the PC version nearly 15 years ago, and realized it was, in fact, not a very good game at all. The time travel mechanic is a chore, the level design is shit, visual aestethics are generally ugly and 'busy', the bosses are all terrible except for the Metal Sonic race, and enemy placement must have been designed by someone who was constantly drunk. Music is good though.
 
J

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
Combichristoffersen said:
No, you're right. Sonic CD was hyped as the Holy Grail of Sonic games even back in the day, and I believed the hype until I bought the PC version nearly 15 years ago, and realized it was, in fact, not a very good game at all. The time travel mechanic is a chore, the level design is shit, visual aestethics are generally ugly and 'busy', the bosses are all terrible except for the Metal Sonic race, and enemy placement must have been designed by someone who was constantly drunk. Music is good though.
Click to expand...

heyyyy we get it you don't like it
 
B

B_Rik_Schitthaus

Banned
Combichristoffersen said:
No, you're right. Sonic CD was hyped as the Holy Grail of Sonic games even back in the day, and I believed the hype until I bought the PC version nearly 15 years ago, and realized it was, in fact, not a very good game at all. The time travel mechanic is a chore, the level design is shit, visual aestethics are generally ugly and 'busy', the bosses are all terrible except for the Metal Sonic race, and enemy placement must have been designed by someone who was constantly drunk. Music is good though.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my view on the game.
All the Megadrive games are far superior, in fact CD is the first bad Sonic game.
 
R

renitou

Member
Statler: That was wonderful!
Waldorf: Bravo!
S: I loved it!
W: That was great!
S: Well, it was pretty good.
W: Well, It wasn't bad.
S: There were parts that weren't very good, though.
W: It could've been a lot better.
S: I didn't really like it.
W: It was pretty terrible.
S: It was bad.
W: It was awful!
S & W: Boo! Boo!
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
vid said:
For close to twenty years, I've heard that Sonic CD was one of the best 2D Sonic games and that it was a must play for any fan. I am convinced that this entire thing has just been an elaborate prank on me.

It seems like pretty much every single stage is designed specifically to punish you for going fast, which sends some crazy mixed signals since the whole time travel mechanic relies on Sonic being able to maintain his high velocity. Of course, if you DO managed to pull off a successful time jump, then it becomes a strange game of 'Where's Waldo' to find a hologram?

GAF, am I just not 'getting it'?
Click to expand...

It's simple.

The object of Sonic CD is not to go zoom, zoom, zoom until you hit the sign at the end of the stage.

There is an element of exploration at hand in Sonic CD. You can't just mindlessly run as fast as you can all over the place and expect to get the best ending like in the later games. The placement of the enemies and spikes and other obstacles was intentionally put there to trip you up.

Sonic CD is all about finding just the right location and technique to build up speed for an extended amount of time so you can get to the past/future.


Of course, you CAN just zoom through the levels if that's how you wish to play it(god only knows why) but playing the game this way might lead to some frustrating moments because of the enemy placement and spikes and whatnot.
 
B

BlazeHedgehog

Member
SonicMegaDrive said:
It's simple.

The object of Sonic CD is not to go zoom, zoom, zoom until you hit the sign at the end of the stage.

There is an element of exploration at hand in Sonic CD. You can't just mindlessly run as fast as you can all over the place and expect to get the best ending like in the later games. The placement of the enemies and spikes and other obstacles was intentionally put there to trip you up.

Sonic CD is all about finding just the right location and technique to build up speed for an extended amount of time so you can get to the past/future.

Of course, you CAN just zoom through the levels if that's how you wish to play it(god only knows why) but playing the game this way might lead to some frustrating moments because of the enemy placement and spikes and whatnot.
Click to expand...

My problem in all of this is that Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't actually built to be a straight platformer, but that's what Sonic CD treats itself as. As I mentioned in my Sonic Generations video review, Sonic is a finely tuned balance of speed, platforming, and exploration.

Sonic CD almost entirely cuts the speed out, focusing exclusively on exploration and platforming. It frequently PUNISHES you for going too fast. The only way to actually go fast in Sonic CD is with diligent memorization - the levels are such a noisy, jumbled mess in terms of design that there's no way to "accidentally" go fast. You have to know where every jump, enemy, and spike pit is - not unlike something like Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Bros. isn't intended to be a "fast" game (though it definitely can be played that way with enough practice).

People can celebrate Sonic CD for this all they want, but they're not celebrating what made the Sega Genesis games so special. Platforming in the Genesis games work as part of a larger game design canvas; but it's not good enough to carry the entire game by itself. When people cite a problem with the Sega Genesis games, it's always because Sonic is too heavy with regards to air control and such; there's too much momentum to him versus a character like Mario or Mega Man. That's a side effect of Sonic's speed - that element of building momentum has to be there for Sonic to feel "fast", because you're acutely aware of what "slow" is and witness Sonic transition between the two states over time.

(That's actually a larger problem with Modern Sonic games sometimes not feeling fast, at least to me, because "fast" is the only speed Sonic has anymore, and either you grow numb to it or you become overwhelmed by it and stop playing).

Sonic CD is blissfully unaware of this fact and has you hopping around all over the place. Some of its level design even plays against Sonic's momentum directly, which just ends up frustrating. Might as well make a Mega Man level where shooting something will kill him.
 
ULTROS!

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I really like how the game looks but all I want to say is... Fuck you Metal Sonic for being nearly impossible to kill without getting hit.
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
SonicMegaDrive said:
It's simple.

The object of Sonic CD is not to go zoom, zoom, zoom until you hit the sign at the end of the stage.

There is an element of exploration at hand in Sonic CD. You can't just mindlessly run as fast as you can all over the place and expect to get the best ending like in the later games. The placement of the enemies and spikes and other obstacles was intentionally put there to trip you up.

Sonic CD is all about finding just the right location and technique to build up speed for an extended amount of time so you can get to the past/future.


Of course, you CAN just zoom through the levels if that's how you wish to play it(god only knows why) but playing the game this way might lead to some frustrating moments because of the enemy placement and spikes and whatnot.
Click to expand...

This is a problem when it interferes with the "fun" of the game. Which is pretty important factor for me.

IpsoFacto said:
No sir, you are not. It's one of the things that throw me off. At any given time you can complete a stage in either 50 seconds por almost 10 minutes, particularly some of the later stages which are hard as f*** because you have no clear way of knowing how to get through them.

You might also have to do a lot of backtracking, since you have Past-Present-Future elements, which also very different from what you'd expect.
Click to expand...
That's kind of a relief to hear. The way everyone was hyping this game up made it seem odd I was getting as frustrated as I was, or that I was finding the visual aesthetics as grating as I was. Still it's interesting to finally get to play one of the earlier harder to obtain games in Sonic's history..

Now that I understand the time mechanics a little better though, the game is making a little bit more sense which helps.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Sega1991 said:
My problem in all of this is that Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't actually built to be a straight platformer, but that's what Sonic CD treats itself as. As I mentioned in my Sonic Generations video review, Sonic is a finely tuned balance of speed, platforming, and exploration.

Sonic CD almost entirely cuts the speed out, focusing exclusively on exploration and platforming. It frequently PUNISHES you for going too fast. The only way to actually go fast in Sonic CD is with diligent memorization - the levels are such a noisy, jumbled mess in terms of design that there's no way to "accidentally" go fast. You have to know where every jump, enemy, and spike pit is - not unlike something like Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Bros. isn't intended to be a "fast" game (though it definitely can be played that way with enough practice).

People can celebrate Sonic CD for this all they want, but they're not celebrating what made the Sega Genesis games so special. Platforming in the Genesis games work as part of a larger game design canvas; but it's not good enough to carry the entire game by itself. When people cite a problem with the Sega Genesis games, it's always because Sonic is too heavy with regards to air control and such; there's too much momentum to him versus a character like Mario or Mega Man. That's a side effect of Sonic's speed - that element of building momentum has to be there for Sonic to feel "fast", because you're acutely aware of what "slow" is and witness Sonic transition between the two states over time.
Click to expand...
so you're reviewing the game under the banner of what you think it should be about, as opposed to what it's actually about?

would you penalize re4 for the same way as well?
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Sega1991 said:
My problem in all of this is that Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't actually built to be a straight platformer, but that's what Sonic CD treats itself as. As I mentioned in my Sonic Generations video review, Sonic is a finely tuned balance of speed, platforming, and exploration.

Sonic CD almost entirely cuts the speed out, focusing exclusively on exploration and platforming. It frequently PUNISHES you for going too fast. The only way to actually go fast in Sonic CD is with diligent memorization - the levels are such a noisy, jumbled mess in terms of design that there's no way to "accidentally" go fast. You have to know where every jump, enemy, and spike pit is - not unlike something like Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Bros. isn't intended to be a "fast" game (though it definitely can be played that way with enough practice).

People can celebrate Sonic CD for this all they want, but they're not celebrating what made the Sega Genesis games so special. Platforming in the Genesis games work as part of a larger game design canvas; but it's not good enough to carry the entire game by itself. When people cite a problem with the Sega Genesis games, it's always because Sonic is too heavy with regards to air control and such; there's too much momentum to him versus a character like Mario or Mega Man. That's a side effect of Sonic's speed - that element of building momentum has to be there for Sonic to feel "fast", because you're acutely aware of what "slow" is and witness Sonic transition between the two states over time.

(That's actually a larger problem with Modern Sonic games sometimes not feeling fast, at least to me, because "fast" is the only speed Sonic has anymore, and either you grow numb to it or you become overwhelmed by it and stop playing).

Sonic CD is blissfully unaware of this fact and has you hopping around all over the place. Some of its level design even plays against Sonic's momentum directly, which just ends up frustrating. Might as well make a Mega Man level where shooting something will kill him.
Click to expand...

Sonic CD has more speed than Sonic 1 and the level design doesn't punish speed as long as your reflexes are good Similarly you don't need memorization to just play the game and run through, provided you have good reflexes. People like Sonic CD because it's flat out a good game, not because it abandons any one aspect of Sonic. On the contrary, the balance of speed, exploration, and platforming that you talk about with the other Sonic games is actually best realized in CD, because oh how evenly it treats those three, while bringing the pinball element more front and center.

But even if penalizing the game as what you feel it should be, versus what it is, that doesn't take anything away from the game, nor should it.

secretanchitman said:
and here i am thinking i was the only one that didn't "get it." looks like sonic 3 is still my favorite sonic game of all time.
Click to expand...

For the hate that Sonic CD gets for being slower, Sonic 3 is actually worse in terms of having mechanics and level design that are made specifically to inhibit your speed and momentum. There are mechanics and level design decisions that in Sonic 3 either bore me to tears or drive me up the wall.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Sega1991 said:
My problem in all of this is that Sonic the Hedgehog wasn't actually built to be a straight platformer, but that's what Sonic CD treats itself as. As I mentioned in my Sonic Generations video review, Sonic is a finely tuned balance of speed, platforming, and exploration.

Sonic CD almost entirely cuts the speed out, focusing exclusively on exploration and platforming. It frequently PUNISHES you for going too fast. The only way to actually go fast in Sonic CD is with diligent memorization - the levels are such a noisy, jumbled mess in terms of design that there's no way to "accidentally" go fast. You have to know where every jump, enemy, and spike pit is - not unlike something like Super Mario Bros., and Super Mario Bros. isn't intended to be a "fast" game (though it definitely can be played that way with enough practice).

People can celebrate Sonic CD for this all they want, but they're not celebrating what made the Sega Genesis games so special. Platforming in the Genesis games work as part of a larger game design canvas; but it's not good enough to carry the entire game by itself. When people cite a problem with the Sega Genesis games, it's always because Sonic is too heavy with regards to air control and such; there's too much momentum to him versus a character like Mario or Mega Man. That's a side effect of Sonic's speed - that element of building momentum has to be there for Sonic to feel "fast", because you're acutely aware of what "slow" is and witness Sonic transition between the two states over time.

(That's actually a larger problem with Modern Sonic games sometimes not feeling fast, at least to me, because "fast" is the only speed Sonic has anymore, and either you grow numb to it or you become overwhelmed by it and stop playing).

Sonic CD is blissfully unaware of this fact and has you hopping around all over the place. Some of its level design even plays against Sonic's momentum directly, which just ends up frustrating. Might as well make a Mega Man level where shooting something will kill him.
Click to expand...


I'll say this at first. Sonic CD is, and has been, my favorite video game for many years, nearly 18 now to be exact.

In those years I've never felt I was at all restricted in how fast the game felt to me. Nor have I ever felt like I was being penalized for going fast. It doesn't feel any slower paced than the Genesis games, unless you choose to take the exploratory route. Maybe it's because I've got all the enemy patterns down to a pulse at this point, but even when I first played it, the hazards in the game were never severe enough to the point where the game became an exercise in frustration.

Sonic CD is a bit like Sonic 1, actually. There are times when you are supposed to go fast, and there are times when you're supposed to take it slower. That's the balance that I've always preferred in my Sonic games, and it's why Sonic 1 and CD are my favorites in the series.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Zen said:
People like Sonic CD because it's flat out a good game, not because it abandons any one aspect of Sonic. On the contrary, the balance of speed, exploration, and platforming that you talk about with the other Sonic games is actually best realized in CD, because oh how evenly it treats those three, while bringing the pinball element more front and center.
Click to expand...

Yes, emphasis on all of this. Agreed 110% completely.

All of this is why Sonic CD is, time and time again, the Sonic game that I continue to come back to after playing each one hundreds of times over the years. It's the one that still feels the freshest and most fun to play after all this time.

Oh, and I also like that it still provides a bit of a challenge, where other Sonic games have become so second nature as to becoming completely mindless to play. Yeah, just blasting through the game as fast as possible can make the game seem very simple, but the task of having to actually 'explore' each act can be both a fun and challenging experience, even after having done it dozens of times.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
just finished my first playthrough. just played normally and got the bad ending. replaying now and doing proper exploration and getting the time generators - having way more fun this way as well.

also playing with the american soundtrack, kinda ho-hum so far but willing to give it a chance.
 
L

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Chinner said:
just finished my first playthrough. just played normally and got the bad ending. replaying now and doing proper exploration and getting the time generators - having way more fun this way as well.

also playing with the american soundtrack, kinda ho-hum so far but willing to give it a chance.
Click to expand...

I wasn't even trying to play 'properly' and I realized I got all of the time stones before act 2 of quartz quadrant. Who needs time travel? :p
 
C

Chinner

Banned
well thats kind of the beauty of it too, you can get the good ending in different ways. i was referring more as to treating it like a sonic 1 and trying to navigate and explore the enviroment, as opposed to like sonic 2-3 & knuckles.
 
S

Suairyu

Banned
Chinner said:
well thats kind of the beauty of it too, you can get the good ending in different ways. i was referring more as to treating it like a sonic 1 and trying to navigate and explore the enviroment, as opposed to like sonic 2-3 & knuckles.
Click to expand...
If you think Sonic CD is closer to how Sonic 1 plays than Sonic 2&3 then you're off your rocker.

Sonic CD is so different from all mainline Mega Drive games.
 
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