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[AniHawk]

i just beat every level and i think that's about it for me. final time is 8:48.

the good parts: first, for me, were the controls. a lot of the times i fucked up was due to me thinking sonic wouldn't go exactly where i wanted him to, so i gave him a little extra push or something. instead he just did what i wanted him to. so that was nice, and it took a little bit to accept that there wasn't any twitchy nonsense going on.

next, there were some good, creative ideas present. i like the concept of the twisty turny world in 3d offering a new type of exploration in a 3d platformer. people say this copied super mario galaxy, but super mario galaxy 1 or 2 never attempted what sonic lost world was able to pull off in some of its levels. i also liked the twisty turny stuff in 2d altering more skill-based platforming. to go back to the controls, i found myself not holding down the run button and just letting normal walking sonic handle a lot of those segments, especially later in the game. i think the parkour stuff was a nice addition too. i think it could be expanded upon, but it worked well in 2d and 3d. the kick took a few tries to get used to, but i don't mind that either.

and for the more negative stuff... well there's nothing i'd say is outright bad, just underwhelming. but the thing i felt this game lacked the most was an identity. secret rings was that game with the running forward with the wii remote. sonic unleashed was the game that had the werehog and the better daytime stages. sonic colors centered around the wisp transformations and exploration. sonic generations was about the best of 2d and 3d sonic. sonic lost world seems that it's going to take the gravity or at least the pipe idea and make a game out of it, but there's probably less than a third of the game devoted to that style of gameplay. then you have the inside pipe levels, which are more skill based. then there are the 2d levels which sort of resemble the pipe levels, but are more methodical and less about twitch reactions than the 3d inside-pipe levels. in addition to those are just weird ideas like sonic flying up towards the sky and half of the shit in the eighth world.

it's overall just very disjointed. it's like a third the people making the game wanted an exploration-based sonic platformer in 3d space. another third wanted to use the same idea to make a 2d skill-based platformer. and the final third really wanted a true sequel to sonic colors. none of these ideas are bad, but they aren't given a lot of room to grow. the least necessary are the wisp powers. an entire game built around twisty 3d tubes would have been pretty great. somewhere it loses the plot. however, the third zone of the eighth world is pretty fantastic- i'll give it that. it's a shame that a level that good wasn't the sort of thing we saw in the rest of the game.

another thing that adds to the haphazard feeling is the length of each level. this is especially annoying near the end of the game where each level can take over twenty minutes, including deaths. it turns each one into a gauntlet of challenges that have no relation to one another. the transition from 3d to 2d gameplay is jarring, and the game would have done better with more zones and shorter levels, similar to colors. it would have also benefited from a lack of predictability. the level -> boss -> level -> boss structure got old fast, especially when the boss fights weren't especially difficult.

i think i liked enough of it that it was an overall enjoyable experience, but it isn't even like secret rings, a game with flaws i find sort of endearing. lost world just feels like sonic generations for the 3ds. it's almost indifference.

 

[DeVeAn]

WHy does everyone have a problem with this level? On the internet I mean. In the real world everyone I've got to play this level loves it. And by everyone I mean 3 people if I'm counting myself.

It was fun in a challenging, addicted-to-win sort of way. You have to be precise, and I would get stuck at a certain point and kept trying it over and over until I figured out the best path forward. Honestly I think it's a cool idea because sonic spinning in snow means he becomes a snowball. I guess it doesn't make sense in the sense of..why is Sonic a snowball? But, this is not the game to be thinking that way. At least imo. It controls well, it's just tricky. You have to go in knowing that if you try to spin dash in the tight areas you are SOL. But I found some neat tricks, like if you are getting caught with the little bad guys that blow wind at you, if you spin dash and aim it at them you will kill them and survive.

I dunno. Just thought it was a pretty decently designed level.

Well you are right on what you say, for myself though I don't want to play an entire level in a Sonic game as a snowball. I mean people never want to play as the "friends" but a snowball instead. That is my thing It breaks my brain. Sonic the snowball. It doesn't matter if it works my brain sends signals saying this is bullshit. Glad people are enjoying it though as I think the developers want us to have fun...I think.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Well you are right on what you say, for myself though I don't want to play an entire level in a Sonic game as a snowball. I mean people never want to play as the "friends" but a snowball instead. That is my thing It breaks my brain. Sonic the snowball. It doesn't matter if it works my brain sends signals saying this is bullshit. Glad people are enjoying it though as I think the developers want us to have fun...I think.

I think this whole snowball thing would have worked better as a simple stage gimmick rather than building an entire stage out of this one idea. That's whats bullshit to me. So many ideas that should have been either left out or used on a small scale.

 

[Zalman]

I hated Secret Rings

Good thing this game isn't nearly as bad as Secret Rings. I did not enjoy that one at all.

 

[Terrible Majesty]

i just beat every level and i think that's about it for me. final time is 8:48.

the good parts: first, for me, were the controls. a lot of the times i fucked up was due to me thinking sonic wouldn't go exactly where i wanted him to, so i gave him a little extra push or something. instead he just did what i wanted him to. so that was nice, and it took a little bit to accept that there wasn't any twitchy nonsense going on.

next, there were some good, creative ideas present. i like the concept of the twisty turny world in 3d offering a new type of exploration in a 3d platformer. people say this copied super mario galaxy, but super mario galaxy 1 or 2 never attempted what sonic lost world was able to pull off in some of its levels. i also liked the twisty turny stuff in 2d altering more skill-based platforming. to go back to the controls, i found myself not holding down the run button and just letting normal walking sonic handle a lot of those segments, especially later in the game. i think the parkour stuff was a nice addition too. i think it could be expanded upon, but it worked well in 2d and 3d. the kick took a few tries to get used to, but i don't mind that either.

and for the more negative stuff... well there's nothing i'd say is outright bad, just underwhelming. but the thing i felt this game lacked the most was an identity. secret rings was that game with the running forward with the wii remote. sonic unleashed was the game that had the werehog and the better daytime stages. sonic colors centered around the wisp transformations and exploration. sonic generations was about the best of 2d and 3d sonic. sonic lost world seems that it's going to take the gravity or at least the pipe idea and make a game out of it, but there's probably less than a third of the game devoted to that style of gameplay. then you have the inside pipe levels, which are more skill based. then there are the 2d levels which sort of resemble the pipe levels, but are more methodical and less about twitch reactions than the 3d inside-pipe levels. in addition to those are just weird ideas like sonic flying up towards the sky and half of the shit in the eighth world.

it's overall just very disjointed. it's like a third the people making the game wanted an exploration-based sonic platformer in 3d space. another third wanted to use the same idea to make a 2d skill-based platformer. and the final third really wanted a true sequel to sonic colors. none of these ideas are bad, but they aren't given a lot of room to grow. the least necessary are the wisp powers. an entire game built around twisty 3d tubes would have been pretty great. somewhere it loses the plot. however, the third zone of the eighth world is pretty fantastic- i'll give it that. it's a shame that a level that good wasn't the sort of thing we saw in the rest of the game.

another thing that adds to the haphazard feeling is the length of each level. this is especially annoying near the end of the game where each level can take over twenty minutes, including deaths. it turns each one into a gauntlet of challenges that have no relation to one another. the transition from 3d to 2d gameplay is jarring, and the game would have done better with more zones and shorter levels, similar to colors. it would have also benefited from a lack of predictability. the level -> boss -> level -> boss structure got old fast, especially when the boss fights weren't especially difficult.

i think i liked enough of it that it was an overall enjoyable experience, but it isn't even like secret rings, a game with flaws i find sort of endearing. lost world just feels like sonic generations for the 3ds. it's almost indifference.

thanks for this. i wanted a game like colors except better, but this whole disjointed and lacking identity or even something special to remember it by gives me the impression that sonic can do better than lost world. you saved me time and money. im going to wait for sm3dworld. also buying w101 when it drops in price. Thanks GAF.

 

[qq more]

Good thing this game isn't nearly as bad as Secret Rings. I did not enjoy that one at all.

Yeah I doubt Lost World is going to be a terrible game. It looks okay at worst.

 

[RobbieNick]

Beat the WiiU version!

Spoiler

Playing the bonus levels in the hidden 8th zone now. (The tornado level should have been the bonus levels instead of Circus Atari IMO.)

OVERALL IMPRESSIONS:

Unlike Nintendo and their mostly "play it safe" Mario, Sega has not been afraid to experiment with Sonic in 3-D. This is partially due to the fact that finding a proper 3-D formula for the Hedgehog has been tough. Still, they could have played it safe and kept with the same formula made popular with Sonic Generations and the daytime levels of Sonic Unleashed, but instead they had a huge variety of ideas (some inspired by other games) and wanted to see if these hodge podge of ideas could make for one solid game and for the most part, it really works.

O-kaaay it looks like I'm writing a few review then after that last paragraph.

The strongest parts of the game are the levels themselves. They are great in variety and only use one idea for a level about twice for the most part. There are full cylindrical tube like levels where you can explore everyhwere and it's open and wide. These area are a lot of fun and really allow you to explore the level. Finding branching paths everywhere. Windy Hill Zone one is the best example of this.

Then, there are more classic, 2-D levels that feel more like Sonic colors levels but add some variety in the designs. There are also inner-tube caverns that remind me a bit of the bonus levels in Knuckles Chaotix and what Sonic game would be complete without grinding on rails? This time they are far less annoying and more like cart rail levels you'd see in Donkey Kong Country. There no handing holding this time as jumping from rail to rail requires a bit more skill to aim right on the rail. While a little tough, this also allows you to skip over a rail or two if your skilled enough.

And skill is the name of the game. This Sonic game is far more of a traditional platformer with some untraditional methods. This requires some skill on the players part which leads me to my main gripe with the game. There are a ton of new moves in Sonic's repertoire this time around. e doesn't automatically run on his own, but requires the player to hold the ZR button to run or the ZL Button to spindash. You also have several new moves B button for double jump only, A for jump/homing attack, Y and X for a mid-air kick or stomp move if there are no enemies around.

With all these new moves, you'd think the game would have some sort of tutorial level or even Omachao to help explain to you how the game works. Sadly, that's not the case here. There's a ? with little ballons around it to tell you something, but you'll barely notice it and have to use the touch screen to read it. This leads to more confusion about the way Sonic controls than even the Wonderful 101 had! This is the only Sonic game that had me begging for Omachao.

That said, once you get the hang on the controls, there's great fun to be had here. Having the run button separate really does give you much better control of Sonic and helped me slow down at just the right times. Even the most difficult of levels has it's fun and charm to it. (I know a lot of people who were frustrated by the snowball level, but I enjoyed it immensely myself.) At times it has a very "Mario Galaxy" vibe to it while other times, it feels very original. Overall, there wasn't a single level I hated. There were one or two that were "Mah" but nothing that made me want to throw my controller.

Speaking of difficulty, I will say that it tends to be a bit spotty near the second half. There are moments when you'll need a fair amount of lives to get through. Sadly, they are hard to come by as for some unknown reason,Sonic Team decided that "Hey, you know how we've been giving out 1UPS for every one hundred rings in EVERY FUCKING SONIC GAME SINCE THE VERY FIRST?! Yeah, let's not do that anymore." Instead, you'll have to find 1ups hidden throughout the levels. Leading you to find stages where you can farm them to make the latter half of the game easier. This also makes the rings useless outside of needing them to grab when you are hit. They are not even used for currency. Ten rings? Two hundred rings? What's the difference now?

Also, it should be noted that while the levels can be tough in the latter half, the Deadly Six are almost always a push over. I think they did this purposely since in the latter half of the game, they are meant to look more of a threat as once of Eggman's machine's is making them stronger and they need to show it. That said, Zavok is the only boss I ever had a tough time with while everyone else is a cake walk. This is not the case with the 3DS version where the boss fights are tougher and more traditional. (But half the levels suck in that game. Also, the final boss will really give you a "Deja-Vu" feeling and is very unoriginal.

Also, the game really, really wants you to rescue Sonic's critter friends now. You'll have to rescue thousands of them just to unlock the later levels just to progress. This isn't near as bad as the moon/sun levels from Unleashed though. Whatever capsules you don't unlock in the main game, you can unlock more playing these optional "Circus Atari" like levels you can find on the map. while kinda weak, they are completely optional and feel like they were put there just for the hell of it. I never needed to replay through an older level to grab critters to unlock a later level because I'd always check out the circus levels now and then. Also, the critters help unlock hidden "?" levels you'll find later in the game.

Then there are the Wisps. As Yoda might say "I am wondering...why are you here?" They aren't used often and rarely are they even needed. The story never explains how Eggman got them back either. Add to it the fact that half the Wisps use a cheap gimmick from the Gamepad and you'll realize this game would have probably been better without them or at least used them in a better manner that makes sense. This is one of the few things the 3DS version gets right.

The main story is done by the same writers as Colors and Generations. Meaning you'll still get a more Saturday morning vibe to the dialouge. Nothing groan worthy as far a jokes go and every character has a cool moment/ Before you go labeling it as "kiddy" , you should know that once the Deadly Six are freed and take over, the story starts to get to take a darker turn. We see Sonic doubt himself a bit after some screw ups, Tails get pissed off and a bit arrogant and we get a good glimpse into Eggman's persona. Orbot and Cubot still make for the best minions Eggman's ever had in either game form or cartoon. The third act really ramps up the danger. As a whole while the dialogue is still a little "meh" it feels like a story that Archie Sonic comic scribe Ian Flynn might write. It's a shame there's no option to replay cutscenes this time.

While the game's main length is only about 6-7 hours, there more to come back for. There's the standard time attack, red rings to collect and unlock Chaos Emeralds, leaderboards, co-op, a link with the 3DS version and some hidden bonus levels that are REALLY experimental and put outside of the main game. I found the game enjoyable enough that I'll be coming back for more.

Overall, Sonic Lost World is pretty daring in experimenting with some new ways to play with Sonic but partially at the cost of more difficult to handle controls that may turn off some players. The levels are an absolute blast, but there are also some bad ideas thrown into the mix. It feels like a game that had too many ideas tossed around and almost none rejected. Still, at the end of the day, it's one of the most platform-centric and different Sonic games I've played in a long time and the positives far outweigh the negatives. It's not quite as good as Generations or Colors, but it's up there.

POSITIVES:

A wide variety of fun and experimental levels.

Parkouring is fun and the controls are solid once you get the hang of them.

Great music.

Strong, solid story..

Co-Op

Miiverse Item sharing.

A great surprise after beating the game.

NEGATIVES

1 ups are hard to come by and rings are almost useless.

Boss fights are way too easy and the final boss is directly copied from a previous game.

Are those circus levels even needed?

SCORE = B


EDIT:I'm not done with the 3DS version yet, but here's my impressions so far.

POSITIVES:

Controls are tighter and parkouring is better than the Wii U version.

Actual Grading at the end of a level.

Early levels are fun and done well.

Boss fights feel like boss fights and not cake walks.

NEGATIVES:

Bonus levels are the dumbest ones yet with Sonic flying in space in all directions and you have to collect Orbs using the gyroscope in the Wii U. This means you have to turn off the 3-D and stand around aiming all over looking like and idiot.

Later levels are frustrating, poorly designed and a chore.

Cutscenes are so cropped as to look like crap.

Fuck you Frozen Factory Zone 3 straight to hell!!

Overall, DIMPS did a good job with the mechanics of the game, but at times failed horribly at the level design. It's frustrating because there are some fun levels here, but others are soooo bad I want to throw my 3DS out a window.

Current score C- DIMPS fails again. Why are some saying this is BETTEr than the Wii U version?!!

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

-Quick impressions, after getting as far as World 2, WiiU version.

-I would really love to know who made the brain dead decision to remove the 100 rings/life mechanic. Of all the games to do it in, it had to be the most unforgiving one. It sucks, I love collecting rings, but it's so useless now.

-Levels are super long. I'm getting a Heroes/filler vibe here and there with the stage length. I would have liked shorter more unique stages, but they're still manageable. It just gets a bit painful when you gameover near the end of a long stage with the need to repeat it all again.

-Visuals are nice and vibrant, if not a bit sparse.

-Level design makes me feel like I'm missing a lot of stuff. I often find myself locked onto a runway I can't break free from and explore all of these alternate routes. It's a little frustrating.

-Story is engaging enough, but I honestly don't think I'll ever be a fan of the Colors writing style. Nothing as bad as BBBB yet though.

-The lack of tutorials is extremely detrimental. With such an entirely fresh control scheme, I'm still doing more learning of basic functions than I'd like to be doing by this point. The game could have really benefited from a better paced first stage to gradually get you up to speed.

-The game controls wonderfully however, as I'm getting a better hold of the parkour system, I'm having more and more fun with the game. The idiotic life system (or lack thereof) on top of the haphazard stage difficulty/design does get frustrating though.

 

[Dark Schala]

I might as well crosspost what I said yesterday in here, too.

After a little more time with it last night, as I'm almost finished, I'm not... hm. I find Sonic Lost World to be incredibly average. It doesn't really soar to the heights that any of the Uncolourations games ever did, and it's primarily because I feel like the game struggles to maintain some sort of sense of identity. I mean, the strongest case the game had in terms of its own identity is in Windy Hill. That's where everything felt cohesive and a true realization of its concepts. Everything from parkour to the level design was pretty strong.

And then you keep going forward in the game to find:

• some rails/platforms that don't really register that you're on them, so when you do try to get on 'em, you fall through instead?
• asset reuse / asset recolours / level design repetition up the ass... signifying that the game was more than likely rushed
• some of Sonic's movement doesn't seem to be... consistent, I guess? Going forwards and backwards, he's faster. Going left and right on a tube, he's slower. It's strange. Blaze could probably talk about this better than I could, I guess.
• the movement on ice physics, as Blaze has told me, is somewhat reminiscent of Ice Cap's, but you didn't really see that much of it in SA1. He noticed that it restricts his homing attack in 3D (and you do need to pirouette to get rid of enemies, yes). Though that sort of slipperiness is something I associate with another platformer hero, so it feels a little uncomfortable in that I had to start playing it like that sort of game instead of a Sonic game, really.
• some of the gimmick levels like the "? Zone", the casino level, etc. somewhat feel unnecessary or have some odd mechanics in there. Like, I had to ask a friend how he did the "? Zone" one because both of us were stumped. He realized that continuously jumping to go down in height was the thing to do. And I thought that was odd because prior to that, you weren't made to implicitly realize that you had to do that in any level previous to that
• Wisp powers are definitely tacked on. They don't give you a bonus for your score, they don't see to do much for you in terms of anything else outside of getting through stuff quicker, but the control for some of them can hinder that. Drill controls more oddly here than in Colours to the point where I had to end up using the stylus to control it than the L-stick since it wasn't as fluid as Colours' Drill. So outside of Drill, I don't see the need for the other wisps at all. Why bother including them?
• The cutscenes feel tacked on simply because they feel segmented. They lack narrative cohesion too. It feels FF13-Chapter 11-like at times (ie: cutscenes for the sake of cutscenes).
• Levels are loooooooooong and they outstay their welcome. Either segment them up and make them extra acts or cut it shorter. Better checkpointing would be helpful.
• there are some other things, but this game is certainly not without its issues, no. It feels odd

A friend of mine calls it "rushed and slapped together". I call it "not cohesive and messy".

I haven't game over'd as much as I've seen people talk about doing it in the OT. I don't think my friend has either, since we're both going through it except he's in different spots/pulling ahead of me. I don't really find the game as soul-crushingly hard as people are saying it is.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what the game itself is intended for, or what it wants to do. It seems to be a set of concepts that Sonic Team slapped together into a game, but it just lacks cohesion and even its own sense of identity. I can almost see the assets being reused simply because it's a string of concepts put together until they realized they were making a game and needed to add level tropes. You can see some sort of sense that they knew they were doing with some of the gimmick stages (ie: the casino stage and the dessert stage) because they related directly to the Deadly Six Member of the Current World (ie: dessert for Zomom and casino for Zeena since it matches their personalities a bit). But other than that, you don't have a lot of that sorta thing going on.

I'm struggling to figure out what the game overall is simply trying to do. I'm certain that when I do completely finish, I still won't know. It's odd that after three games of knowing exactly what roles those games served and what the design intents were for those games, Lost World just leaves me feeling puzzled.

No, I'm not finished the game yet. I will be tonight since I have a few more things to finish off, but I think I've seen enough to make my assertions.

I ended up streaming something for Halloween yesterday so I didn't have time for Lost World. I had a long shift today, so I'll take a nap and get down to finishing the game.

I also would like to remark that they spent so much time building up the villains for them to only... not be as significant as you thought they would be in the game itself. They're essentially walking, talking stereotypes. Zeena flits around with her hair and nails and gets pissed if someone messes 'em up. Zomom's fat so that's why he eats so much. Zik's old so he's wise and uses magics. Zor's emo so he acts like a complete bore with some of the most droning lines imaginable. And everyone's more of an asshole than normal. The writing just feels weird, when in the previous games the writers have worked on (Colours and Generations), the writing and characterization made sense, and felt more consistent (yes, even in Generations where the writing did seem to lack a similar sense of cohesion).

And I have to say that I agree with Nocturnowl's impressions of the Parkour so far too.

 

[Teknoman]

I know I got a 1up after getting so many rings or something...but i'm not sure how many it was. I just remember hearing a jingle.

Also this game is a great example of why games should still have manuals. Sure, its got an e-manual, but I still feel those arent as accessible as just popping the book from the case and scanning it.

 

[Het_Nkik]

That didn't work for me, when I click an item it just says discard or send. I have pushed every button, tapped it and nothing

Touch the suitcase icon while you're playing a level, not on the world map.

I know I got a 1up after getting so many rings or something...but i'm not sure how many it was. I just remember hearing a jingle.

You sure you didn't simply run through those 5 countdown rings?

 

[Seik]

Dat snowball level.

You guys got me scared, it wasn't all that bad, I only got one Game Over at first to understand the mechanics/ennemies and then it was all fine and dandy.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Well I got to try the multiplayer earlier today, some stages are quite different in layout to what single player stages they appear to represent, otherwise it's a pretty basic mode that does exactly what you expect. It has some items that are kind of overpowered like your opponent can't run, a warp that just lobs you in front of the leading player and a homing missile that hit me mid spring transition in a 3D stage causing me to fall into the abyss between cylinders.
For some reason the "flying" stage made the multiplayer cut which is a bad choice as you may imagine, hell it's a bad stage type in general. Safe to say you're not missing much if you don't get to play it but it works well enough, being able to split screen duties across the tv and gamepad is neato.

I also would like to remark that they spent so much time building up the villains for them to only... not be as significant as you thought they would be in the game itself. They're essentially walking, talking stereotypes. Zeena flits around with her hair and nails and gets pissed if someone messes 'em up. Zomom's fat so that's why he eats so much. Zik's old so he's wise and uses magics. Zor's emo so he acts like a complete bore with some of the most droning lines imaginable. And everyone's more of an asshole than normal. The writing just feels weird, when in the previous games the writers have worked on (Colours and Generations), the writing and characterization made sense, and felt more consistent (yes, even in Generations where the writing did seem to lack a similar sense of cohesion).

I actually don't mind how one note the deadly six are as characters, as a bunch of simplistic villains easy for kids to relate to and with (fortunately) little cutscene time to be built up I think it was the right choice to have them be so blatantly stereotypical, each embody a simple negative trait, run with it for what short time to they have to show off in the game and i'll take that over any ancient super monster plotline. I can't say I was expecting anything more from them, seeing how Sega were gunning for that Mario like approach with some elements of this game I figured they just wanted some Koopaling style bosses to bolt onto each world.

But I have to agree that the writing for Sonic and Tails feels wrong, Sonic is always a bit snarky, he's sort of borderline with it here heading into being rude I guess (need to think of a better term!) and the forced DRAMA cobbled together in later stages of the games plot comes off as hilariously forced. Tails as i've said before isn't that likeable at all seeing they turned the sarcasm dial right up because Sonic's snark alone was not enough, i've never really cared for the fox anyway but even I found his attitude for most of the game to be out of character.

And I have to say that I agree with Nocturnowl's impressions of the Parkour so far too.

Seeing as you mentioned it I should probably put it in this thread.

Sonic’s tackling a new approach to 3D platforming on this occasion, dropping the high speed boost style for a more controllable outing with parkour abilities to aid in the platforming. Ideally Parkour should be a good fit for a fast paced platformer like Sonic that plays into momentum yet as it stands the implementation of Sonic’s new skills are just another of the inconsistent features of this game. The positive side of things is that parkour skills like wall climbing/running give Sonic more options to approach obstacles in platforming, I think it’s always more fun for the player if you have the option of using advanced skills to bypass some obstacles and save time.

The problem arises from the implementation of these abilities. Sonic partakes in some of these actions at a pedestrian pace, the vaulting action in particular sticks out for being slower than simply jumping over an obstacle, running vertically up a wall is kind of stiff and if you don’t capitalize on the move Sonic slowly slides back down the wall in a flow shattering manner unbefitting of the worlds fastest hedgehog. Parkour is also sort of sticky, Sonic getting caught on walls or grabbing onto the edge of ledges you didn’t want him to and the speed at which you approach an obstacle or wall appears to make little difference to the act of vertical wall scaling. The overall implementation of Parkour feels unrefined, it’s a great idea but in its current state it could use some work. The wall running ability is particularly fiddly, red rings in sections that require this skill tend to be a nightmare requiring Sonic to have initially landed on an exact area of a massive wall (often flooded with multiple ring layers just to make lining up with the red one all the more difficult) to obtain . Sometimes you end up doing a vertical run instead dropping Sonic off the map or it requires the seemingly unexplained ability where Sonic can start with a vertical run, jump horizontally while on the wall (infinitely in fact, why? no idea) to pass a walls angle and commence a wall run on this other side of the wall, the only hint to this is the path the rings take yet it looks to clash with the rest of the mechanics, I mean how does Sonic get sudden running momentum by edging around a walls corner with a jump that should by all logic just throw him straight past said corner? fortunately they reserve this one for red rings only.

Yippee, If I rustled up all the bits and pieces i've said about this game in this thread I might be able to create some sort of conclusion.
Of course it's easier to just say that while I find Lost World much more preferable to the majority of 3D Sonic titles and enjoy it during its strong points it's all over the place on the whole, leaping between shifts in gameplay instead of focusing on what it does well. The 3D and 2D styles of platforming actually feel quite divorced from one another, the 2D sections are solid enough but feel like they were trying to cram Sonic's mechanics into a more precision focused platformer reminiscent of that one plumber guy, Meanwhile for all the "it looks like Super Sonic Galaxy" the 3D stages were getting these ones end up feeling far more in line with Sonic style offering a speedy approach that the 2D stages generally don't. In turn it all feels disjointed but not without its moments. Most other style shifts aren't really worth trumpeting though I did like the "grind carts",others like the wretched flying stages are a mess and a bore, funnily enough it seems everyone starts these stages mashing the button to descend because that appears to make the most sense yet you actually hold it down, yet is still lacks any finesse to its control and the less said about the actual level design here the better.

If we're going to take the whole "there's sequel potential here" angle which is all too common with Sonic then they need to really focus more on the various types of 3D stages as that's where the parkour and Sonic style is at its strongest. In the end though I find this game a step down from Colours and Generations, despite a few claims saying otherwise Colours 2 this is most certainly not, I could write a whole 'nother post on how badly they screwed up Wisps but I think we can all see that anyway.

Really one of the most damning things I can say about this game is that I can think of like tons more small elements I could harp on, the circus minigames and the pointlessness of unlocking them via red rings, the flickies/animal gates, amassing large numbers of rings not being worth squat, those secret stages, the needless complications to aerial attacks with the kick and homing charge, various unexplained or just half explained mechanics with easily missable tutorial prompts, IT JUST KEEPS ON GOING! When people pointed out that the game doesn't feel that cohesive as a whole they're pretty much on the ball, it threw tons of ideas at the wall and even the things that didn't stick got put in anyway.
Fortunately on a base level I still had fun with the game so that's always a good thing, I actually had more fun with this flawed outing than a much more well put together platformer that I played prior to it.

 

[MilkBeard]

It's interesting how analytical people are getting about a Sonic game. Talking about 'coherency, consistency,' etc.

To me, the game is just fun, and it controls really well (for the most part), which is a step up imo from previous Sonic games. We can all write review length posts about each little idea and if it was good or not, but it's all just about playing and having fun. In that, I think Lost World succeeds. It's just a fun game. Period.

 

[Zalman]

It's interesting how analytical people are getting about a Sonic game. Talking about 'coherency, consistency,' etc.

To me, the game is just fun, and it controls really well (for the most part), which is a step up imo from previous Sonic games. We can all write review length posts about each little idea and if it was good or not, but it's all just about playing and having fun. In that, I think Lost World succeeds. It's just a fun game. Period.

Thumbs up for you, sir.

 

[AniHawk]

i thought the snowball level was going to be motion controlled. it worked pretty well for me. it was just kinda long.

honestly, it's one of the levels i remember fondly.

 

[Dario ff]

It's interesting how analytical people are getting about a Sonic game. Talking about 'coherency, consistency,' etc.

To me, the game is just fun, and it controls really well (for the most part), which is a step up imo from previous Sonic games. We can all write review length posts about each little idea and if it was good or not, but it's all just about playing and having fun. In that, I think Lost World succeeds. It's just a fun game. Period.

...and how exactly does that help Sega fix the issues for the next game? What does it help to pretend there's no issues with it? Other people didn't have fun with it. Other people disliked it a lot. And it's by no means a vocal minority.

Through discussion people try to figure out what the root of the problem is so more people can enjoy it. They do read the feedback after all, as evidenced by some of the over-corrections they did for this game. Look at how they got completely rid of tutorials because of Omochao complaints. Or how they got rid of the 3D -> 2D transitions because people abused them. (And in the only level they are, the rail ones, you can still exploit it actually) They moved the ranking system to Time Trial because people complained S ranks were too easy. It's all useful and it's up to them to use that feedback properly.

 

[AniHawk]

i'm going to write up fuller, hopefully more coherent thoughts later, but it's not a bad game. like, secret rings might actually be a bad game (however it's also one i enjoyed). lost world is just a lot of things at once. a jack of all trades if you will.

 

[steveovig]

All the pussies who complain need to shut it

The game tries something different and it's far from an unplayable game. Go have fun with video games and stop trying to pull apart and analyze them so much. What other games out there are like this?

 

[qq more]

you people are being way too overly defensive about this game

its very annoying right now. knock it off

 

[AniHawk]

video games are products of design. they're built for analysis because they're built. they're engineered. there's a logic to them, and finding out what's fun and why and what isn't and why is something worth doing to better understand your own tastes and to offer constructive feedback.

 

[MilkBeard]

...and how exactly does that help Sega fix the issues for the next game? What does it help to pretend there's no issues with it? Other people didn't have fun with it. Other people disliked it a lot. And it's by no means a vocal minority.

Through discussion people try to figure out what the root of the problem is so more people can enjoy it. They do read the feedback after all, as evidenced by some of the over-corrections they did for this game. Look at how they got completely rid of tutorials because of Omochao complaints. Or how they got rid of the 3D -> 2D transitions because people abused them. (And in the only level they are, the rail ones, you can still exploit it actually) They moved the ranking system to Time Trial because people complained S ranks were too easy. It's all useful and it's up to them to use that feedback properly.

Just an observation. Of course, other people will not enjoy it for whatever reason. But it was just getting really analytical in here for a game you just play and have fun. That's all. A game, need I remind you, about a blue hedgehog that runs really fast.

By all means, continue with talking details if that's what you want. By the way, none of this is going to help Sega make a better game. They look probably at reviews, sales, and maybe a little bit based on customer feedback. If you have problems then tell them what you felt on their website or some other way.

Perhaps if you go in playing a Sonic game expecting this or that, then maybe it's your expectation that might be holding you back from enjoying. Have you thought about that for once? A game is not going to be exactly what you want it to be. That's not to excuse faults. But by and large, Lost World is a pretty polished game for the most part.

EDIT: I don't mean to get people up in arms here. By all means, continue discussion.

 

[HoodWinked]

i was watching that yoshi island speedrunner on twitch, he got this game at launch and was stoked to play it. he finished it to completion and it was hilarious to watch because he was constantly getting frustrated.

its like this...

but a entire game filled with things like this.

 

[Dario ff]

By all means, continue with talking details if that's what you want. By the way, none of this is going to help Sega make a better game. They look probably at reviews, sales, and maybe a little bit based on customer feedback. If you have problems then tell them what you felt on their website or some other way.

Except I just proved that point wrong with the examples above, and the fact that their staff does take the feedback and communicates with other people on other forums. Even RubyEclipse is around on NeoGAF.

Perhaps if you go in playing a Sonic game expecting this or that, then maybe it's your expectation that might be holding you back from enjoying. Have you thought about that for once? A game is not going to be exactly what you want it to be. That's not to excuse faults. But by and large, Lost World is a pretty polished game for the most part.

How are expectations a bad thing if you're making a product for a fanbase that's been built over 20 years? They're your customers after all, or has Sega said they want to build a new fanbase with only the people that completely love this game? Even ignoring expectations, there's objectively bad design decisions which other people are pointing out in this thread...

Want a fun fact? I didn't even play the game yet! Reading said discussion is very valuable to me, and I thank anyone who takes the time to write these posts. Calling it just "fun" seems very dishonest from what I saw and read so far. That and I want to make my own game in the future as well, so these are very important lessons for me.

 

[MilkBeard]

Except I just proved that point wrong with the examples above, and the fact that their staff does take the feedback and communicates with other people on other forums. Even RubyEclipse is around on NeoGAF.


How are expectations a bad thing if you're making a product for a fanbase that's been built over 20 years? They're your customers after all, or has Sega said they want to build a new fanbase with only the people that completely love this game? Even ignoring expectations, there's objectively bad design decisions which other people are pointing out in this thread...

Well okay, if Sega has actual employees here that read impressions, I suppose that's fair game. But that wasn't really my point. The idea is that I'm just trying to give some perspective. But if there is a majority of people who are unhappy then I'm sure Sega will find out. But what I've noticed about most of the people trying to articulate what is wrong with this game is that 90% of it is about the player's preference of what a Sonic game 'should' be, and not necessarily a fault of the game mechanics themselves. And maybe I'm just an odd duck, because 90% of those complaints aren't materializing in my playtime. But again, it's all just impressions anyways.

Second, expectations only lead to negative impressions. You're only setting yourself up to be disappointed, to enjoy something less by expecting a particular result from something. That's all. It can be hard to curb expectations, but I think Sonic fans should have learned this by now. But to be honest I'm not that big of a Sonic fan, so maybe I'm just some random gamer who comes in and enjoys a new Sonic game for what it is and not necessarily how it adheres to Sonic 'style.'

If you think about when you were a kid and played games blind, without much knowledge beforehand: did you analyze every detail, or did you just play it if it was fun, and put it down if it was bad? Everyone has to be this seasoned critic about everything when they get older. It's not just about having fun anymore. You gotta critique every little detail. I personally don't think these long critiques are really going to help people who want to know if they should jump in and try the game either. It's best that they try themselves. I just saw someone say "Okay, I'm not going to play it because ____ said it felt disjointed." If people are actually basing whether they try this game off of these impressions, then I think it's important to say, just try it for yourself and see if it's fun to you or not. They might miss out on a potentially fun experience if they put too much weight to what people say.

Anyway. I've written too much. Everyone has different expectations I suppose. It doesn't look like Lost World is going to sell particularly well anyway, so next Sonic game will most likely be different.

EDIT:

Want a fun fact? I didn't even play the game yet! Reading said discussion is very valuable to me, and I thank anyone who takes the time to write these posts. Calling it just "fun" seems very dishonest from what I saw and read so far. That and I want to make my own game in the future as well, so these are very important lessons for me.

I would say that you should play the game before you continue this type of discussion. How else are you going to know if I'm being dishonest? The fact that you give more weight to people who criticize means that you are going in expecting a negative experience. Just play it to find out.

 

[Dario ff]

I would say that you should play the game before you continue this type of discussion. How else are you going to know if I'm being dishonest? The fact that you give more weight to people who criticize means that you are going in expecting a negative experience. Just play it to find out.

I can't, a Wii U costs $900 here. And I'm giving weight to a lot of close friends and people from the community who've given me a lot of feedback as well on my own work.

I understand if you think it's fun, and I'd appreciate if you wrote your thoughts as well on it if you want. That can also lead to good discussion, since it gives feedback on what they're doing right as well.

Of course you're free to not expand on those points either, but trying to stifle the negative discussion requires more than saying "It's fun, I like it, people shouldn't analyze it".

 

[Box of Bunnies]

All the pussies who complain need to shut it

Or you could go shove the game disc up your arse.

The fuck is with this "stop disliking what I like, or liking it less than I do" shit in here? People are allowed to like or dislike things in varying amounts for varying reasons. Hey, great, you really like the game! Good for you. I wish I was into it as you were, too. But you can't get all shitty with people for different opinions.

Getting all "durr stop focusing on the negatives and just have fun" makes you look like a pathetic fanboy.

e: just wanna note that the "you"s in the last couple paragraphs there are general to the thread, not specifically to steveo. I know sometimes replies that quote people can seem like the whole thing is directed at the quoted poster so I'm disclaiming here that they're not.

 

[MilkBeard]

I can't, a Wii U costs $900 here. And I'm giving weight to a lot of close friends and people from the community who've given me a lot of feedback as well on my own work.

I understand if you think it's fun, and I'd appreciate if you wrote your thoughts as well on it if you want. That can also lead to good discussion, since it gives feedback on what they're doing right as well.

Of course you're free to not expand on those points either, but trying to stifle the negative discussion requires more than saying "It's fun, I like it, people shouldn't analyze it".

Makes sense. If you don't have a system and would have to take a risky plunge on the possibility of liking it then I'd say it's not worth it. But if you had a WiiU and access I'd say it's worth trying out to find out. Otherwise, you're better waiting on another game on a platform you have.

I talked about some things I liked a few pages back, so I don't really feel like expanding on it further. I mean, it's not the best game ever, but I did say it's the best 3D Sonic game I've played, and I do stand by that. I haven't played Heroes, Unleashed, Secret Rings, Black Night, Sonic 2006, and a few other of the oddball Sonic games. I have played Adventure 1 & 2, Colors, Generations, and Lost World.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I also played the first part of Sonic 4. Didn't really like it that much.

 

[Diablohead]

i was watching that yoshi island speedrunner on twitch, he got this game at launch and was stoked to play it. he finished it to completion and it was hilarious to watch because he was constantly getting frustrated.

its like this...

but a entire game filled with things like this.

I'm guessing you mean TriHex, sounds about right

 

[MilkBeard]

Or you could go shove the game disc up your arse.

The fuck is with this "stop disliking what I like, or liking it less than I do" shit in here? People are allowed to like or dislike things in varying amounts for varying reasons. Hey, great, you really like the game! Good for you. I wish I was into it as you were, too. But you can't get all shitty with people for different opinions.

Getting all "durr stop focusing on the negatives and just have fun" makes you look like a pathetic fanboy.

Well, I did say some of those things, but I didn't shout at people and call them names. If you want to try again at formulating your point, then go ahead, but speaking the way you do doesn't help.

Personally I was just trying to give perspective, because I find heavy analysis of Sonic games to be beside the point, and goes beyond what is most important, which is your first hand experience. However, it is true that everyone has a different opinion of it. I do feel confident in saying that it's a solid effort by Sonic team though.

 

[steveovig]

Or you could go shove the game disc up your arse.

The fuck is with this "stop disliking what I like, or liking it less than I do" shit in here? People are allowed to like or dislike things in varying amounts for varying reasons. Hey, great, you really like the game! Good for you. I wish I was into it as you were, too. But you can't get all shitty with people for different opinions.

Getting all "durr stop focusing on the negatives and just have fun" makes you look like a pathetic fanboy.

I'm sorry but it just seems like you're looking for a reason to complain. I played and beat Colors and Generations and this isn't too far off from those. Are we playing the same game? It's not as polished as GTA V or Galaxy but damn, it's not that bad. I reckon that this game won't sell well because of picky gamers who complain about every little thing.

 

[qq more]

As someone who is actually developing a game on my own, I am perfectly fine with analysis on games. It's good to understand why people aren't enjoying the game as much as they wanted to. And it is also good to understand how exactly mechanics work and if they are well executed or not, it's a bit fascinating to read.

I don't think people are spoiled by expectations or anything, a lot of the people here came into the game with lower expectations to begin with. Also, I don't think the analysis is what hurts the enjoyment for people, they're analyzing it to figure out what's exactly wrong and how they think the game should be improved.

Improvements can go a long way.

I'm sorry but it just seems like you're looking for a reason to complain. I played and beat Colors and Generations and this isn't too far off from those. Are we playing the same game? It's not as polished as GTA V or Galaxy but damn, it's not that bad. I reckon that this game won't sell well because of picky gamers who complain about every little thing.

While it's good to hear people are enjoying Lost World but what exactly was it about the complaints you've read that came across as complaining for the sake of it? Most of the impressions I've read so far in the thread has been pretty reasonable.

 

[Dario ff]

Makes sense. If you don't have a system and would have to take a risky plunge on the possibility of liking it then I'd say it's not worth it. But if you had a WiiU and access I'd say it's worth trying out to find out. Otherwise, you're better waiting on another game on a platform you have.

Glad that you understand my situation on this.

because I find heavy analysis of Sonic games to be beside the point, and goes beyond what is most important, which is your first hand experience.

This is actually a very good starting point to try to figure out why people are this critical actually. Most of the games in the franchise tend to have their re-playability as one big pro for a lot of people. So it's natural they pay attention to the details of what makes them so fun for that.

Sonic Generations is like what, 3 hours long? How did Sega even dare to release a game with that much content 2 years ago? The hook was in the Speedrunning with Modern Sonic. They banked on that and simplified Speedrunning for even people that don't normally do it on other games. The presentation was very lacking, but they focused on the level design of the main big stages since that was the main hook of the game.

On the other hand, it sounds to me like the Lost World first hand experience is actually the worst aspect from what I've read from a lot of people. (Lack of explanations, too much variation, etc.) Then they also mention that learning the game's quirks and replaying stages gives you a much better experience. For this we have Jim Sterling's review which actually gave it a better opinion after he spent 30 hours or so with it. So people go and spend this much time with it and start noticing these problems a lot.

It's interesting to see on what they should probably focus more the next time to get a better reaction from people.

 

[MilkBeard]

Glad that you understand my situation on this.


This is actually a very good starting point to try to figure out why people are this critical actually. Most of the games in the franchise tend to have their re-playability as one big pro for a lot of people. So it's natural they pay attention to the details of what makes them so fun for that.

Sonic Generations is like what, 3 hours long? How did Sega even dare to release a game with that much content 2 years ago? The hook was in the Speedrunning with Modern Sonic. They banked on that and simplified Speedrunning for even people that don't normally do it on other games. The presentation was very lacking, but they focused on the level design of the main big stages since that was the main hook of the game.

On the other hand, it sounds to me like the Lost World first hand experience is actually the worst aspect from what I've read from a lot of people. (Lack of explanations, too much variation, etc.) Then they also mention that learning the game's quirks and replaying stages gives you a much better experience. For this we have Jim Sterling's review which actually gave it a better opinion after he spent 30 hours or so with it. So people go and spend this much time with it and start noticing these problems much more.

It's interesting to see on what they should probably focus more the next time to get a better reaction from people.

Good point. I suppose that I don't share most of those complaints that I find them hard to imagine. Most probably it has to do with Sega's design choices this time, and people just not liking those decisions. But perhaps my initial comment seemed accusatory, but perhaps I was trying to level the playing field in saying that I found the game to be genuinely fun.
As I've gotten older, I look at games a different way than I used to. If this was like 10 years ago, I might not have looked at Lost World the same way.

I guess that's kind of the point: The people who are content don't have as much to say, so in a sense I wanted to speak up and make sure people who haven't played will give the game a fair shot because it's worth it if the option is available.

EDIT: But then again, the long posts by other people were mixed with positive and negative, and so I think I was mixing two different things together with the complaints and being really analytical. It was more of an observation and I didn't really give it that much thought, so take that as you will.

 

[bart64]

Good point. I suppose that I don't share most of those complaints that I find them hard to imagine. Most probably it has to do with Sega's design choices this time, and people just not liking those decisions. But perhaps my initial comment seemed accusatory, but perhaps I was trying to level the playing field in saying that I found the game to be genuinely fun.
As I've gotten older, I look at games a different way than I used to. If this was like 10 years ago, I might not have looked at Lost World the same way.

I guess that's kind of the point: The people who are content don't have as much to say, so in a sense I wanted to speak up and make sure people who haven't played will give the game a fair shot because it's worth it if the option is available.

EDIT: But then again, the long posts by other people were mixed with positive and negative, and so I think I was mixing two different things together with the complaints and being really analytical. It was more of an observation and I didn't really give it that much thought, so take that as you will.

I'm with you. This game is not bad by any means, but from going on this board you'd think it's trash. It's actually close to the grand rebirth I imagined when I saw the first railer, just not as polished as I'd have hoped.

 

[qq more]

I don't think most of the people analyzing this game are calling it trash, but are saying it's just a flawed game




just sayin'

 

[Dark Schala]

Edit: Those weren't my final impressions at all, and while I'm not used to writing huge impressions for platformers since I'm more of an RPG person, I'll still try to write something cohesive when I finish up and get everything.

video games are products of design. they're built for analysis because they're built. they're engineered. there's a logic to them, and finding out what's fun and why and what isn't and why is something worth doing to better understand your own tastes and to offer constructive feedback.

Exactly. This is why I write impressions and reviews, even if they're just on GAF. Some people like thorough analysis, and a lot of people like it when games are analyzed down to its inherent design details, and played well enough by some people who do take the time to write about mechanics. At least, that's how it is in my experience throughout my years on GAF.

This notion of "turn your brain off, stop thinking about it and analyzing it and just have fun" just doesn't fly with me. How can developers be spoonfed that their games, while having some flaws that don't satisfy a lot of people, are still absolutely fun and to not change a darn thing? Games don't improve that way. Like qq and Dario have said, developers actually like reading constructive criticism of their games. That's why they have beta testers or they read impressions from people who've played their game, and they make necessary improvements. Both of those posters do work on games in their own ways (ie: Dario with mods, qq more with his own games), and they do look for feedback from players who test their work, or players who play demos of their works. (For example, when I played one of qq more's games for SAGE 2012, I (and other players) noted that the framerate in one of his levels dipped all the way down to 25fps which was detrimental for platforming, so that's something he and his dev team took into account and applied in an update for the game).

There is nowhere where people like AniHawk, Nocturnowl or I have said, "This game is unsalvageable, it's garbage, don't play it because it's shit". No. We've merely deconstructed the platformer in some spots, discussed how the game itself flows design-wise, how the game is engineered, how the level design works, and how the game as an overall product functions in a package sense. When you've played many games in a genre, you do begin to understand aspects of game design or do begin to understand why devs did certain things, or why they didn't, or wonder why they even considered to add this aspect to the game if it's inconsistent or superfluous.

That is exactly why Game of the Year threads are some of my favourite threads on GAF. That's why the old User Review thread was one of my favourite threads on GAF before it stopped getting updated. I love being able to write about games I actually like, even the bits where I do add constructive criticism for them. I read every single post in those threads and learn about games that I may not have even considered prior to making my own post or games I'd like to catch up on in the next year.

And as far as I know, people do like some of my lengthy and analytical impressions because they are thorough, paint a decent picture of the game's design, talks about the game's mechanics and systems, and talks about the game's aesthetics. As an aside, I became inspired to write them like that because AniHawk has done it like that ever since and before the time I started to lurk GAF. Those are the sorts of impressions that I respect and put a lot of stock into. If I don't know the nitty-gritty of some aspects of a game prior to playing it, then I feel like I won't have a large picture of what the game's mechanics are like. And I've had other people tell me they enjoy these sorts of impressions. This is just how some people like to think about their media. They are budgeting money to either rent or purchase them, so of course these sorts of details are going to matter to some people. It isn't much to some people to just hear "it's fun, 8/10, go get it".

So no, I won't stop writing impressions like this even if people dislike it. On a similar note, I do write positive impressions for games I like, and go just as in-depth for game mechanics and level design/pacing for those. Discussing and discovering what's fun about games, and what's not so fun, what doesn't work, and why the game isn't very consistent is fun in itself. Learning what purpose the game serves in the end is part of the fun.

Dario's post with respect to analyzing Sonic games, which people who do play Sonic games quite often/make fangames often do, is quite accurate. Heck, people who've played a lot of games in any sort of genre are prone to do this. I do with with platformers and RPG (and maybe VNs/Adventure games), a lot of other posters do it with RPGs, AniHawk does it with platformers, JC does it with action games and platformers, Nocturnowl does it with platformers, and so on and so forth. I get to know posters, or their general stances on games based on their posts because I actually read every single post in a thread to form my pre-play impressions or to make considerations with respect to whether or not I should buy the game now or wait until it goes budget. Especially in import threads where it's $80-100 to import a video game.

I love video games. That's why I feel the need to analyze as many details as I can. It's not just about turning your brain off and having fun with the base experience. It's about looking past that and finding the depth in the game design. I spend a long time with games, and take apart systems and look for cohesion, design template aspects, and pacing. That's part of the fun of playing a video game to me. People joke that I play bad games for a long time or even platinum them (multiple times, even), but that's because I want to learn as much about a game as I can so I can write proper and thorough impressions for people who do like reading them.

Bickering about whether or not people are... ahem... pussies because they're trying to understand the game to its fullest extent, and being flippant about that is not going to get you anywhere here. This thread is littered with GAF members who do write lengthy impressions of games, both positive and negative, so do try to understand where we're coming from, too.

 

[steveovig]

Edit: Those weren't my final impressions at all, and while I'm not used to writing huge impressions for platformers since I'm more of an RPG person, I'll still try to write something cohesive when I finish up and get everything.


Exactly. This is why I write impressions and reviews, even if they're just on GAF. Some people like thorough analysis, and a lot of people like it when games are analyzed down to its inherent design details, and played well enough by some people who do take the time to write about mechanics. At least, that's how it is in my experience throughout my years on GAF.

This notion of "turn your brain off, stop thinking about it and analyzing it and just have fun" just doesn't fly with me. How can developers be spoonfed that their games, while having some flaws that don't satisfy a lot of people, are still absolutely fun and to not change a darn thing? Games don't improve that way. Like qq and Dario have said, developers actually like reading constructive criticism of their games. That's why they have beta testers or they read impressions from people who've played their game, and they make necessary improvements. Both of those posters do work on games in their own ways (ie: Dario with mods, qq more with his own games), and they do look for feedback from players who test their work, or players who play demos of their works. (For example, when I played one of qq more's games for SAGE 2012, I (and other players) noted that the framerate in one of his levels dipped all the way down to 25fps which was detrimental for platforming, so that's something he and his dev team took into account and applied in an update for the game).

There is nowhere where people like AniHawk, Nocturnowl or I have said, "This game is unsalvageable, it's garbage, don't play it because it's shit". No. We've merely deconstructed the platformer in some spots, discussed how the game itself flows design-wise, how the game is engineered, how the level design works, and how the game as an overall product functions in a package sense. When you've played many games in a genre, you do begin to understand aspects of game design or do begin to understand why devs did certain things, or why they didn't, or wonder why they even considered to add this aspect to the game if it's inconsistent or superfluous.

That is exactly why Game of the Year threads are some of my favourite threads on GAF. That's why the old User Review thread was one of my favourite threads on GAF before it stopped getting updated. I love being able to write about games I actually like, even the bits where I do add constructive criticism for them. I read every single post in those threads and learn about games that I may not have even considered prior to making my own post or games I'd like to catch up on in the next year.

And as far as I know, people do like some of my lengthy and analytical impressions because they are thorough, paint a decent picture of the game's design, talks about the game's mechanics and systems, and talks about the game's aesthetics. As an aside, I became inspired to write them like that because AniHawk has done it like that ever since and before the time I started to lurk GAF. Those are the sorts of impressions that I respect and put a lot of stock into. If I don't know the nitty-gritty of some aspects of a game prior to playing it, then I feel like I won't have a large picture of what the game's mechanics are like. And I've had other people tell me they enjoy these sorts of impressions. This is just how some people like to think about their media. They are budgeting money to either rent or purchase them, so of course these sorts of details are going to matter to some people. It isn't much to some people to just hear "it's fun, 8/10, go get it".

So no, I won't stop writing impressions like this even if people dislike it. On a similar note, I do write positive impressions for games I like, and go just as in-depth for game mechanics and level design/pacing for those. Discussing and discovering what's fun about games, and what's not so fun, what doesn't work, and why the game isn't very consistent is fun in itself. Learning what purpose the game serves in the end is part of the fun.

Dario's post with respect to analyzing Sonic games, which people who do play Sonic games quite often/make fangames often do, is quite accurate. Heck, people who've played a lot of games in any sort of genre are prone to do this. I do with with platformers and RPG (and maybe VNs/Adventure games), a lot of other posters do it with RPGs, AniHawk does it with platformers, JC does it with action games and platformers, Nocturnowl does it with platformers, and so on and so forth. I get to know posters, or their general stances on games based on their posts because I actually read every single post in a thread to form my pre-play impressions or to make considerations with respect to whether or not I should buy the game now or wait until it goes budget. Especially in import threads where it's $80-100 to import a video game.

I love video games. That's why I feel the need to analyze as many details as I can. It's not just about turning your brain off and having fun with the base experience. It's about looking past that and finding the depth in the game design. I spend a long time with games, and take apart systems and look for cohesion, design template aspects, and pacing. That's part of the fun of playing a video game to me. People joke that I play bad games for a long time or even platinum them (multiple times, even), but that's because I want to learn as much about a game as I can so I can write proper and thorough impressions for people who do like reading them.

Bickering about whether or not people are... ahem... pussies because they're trying to understand the game to its fullest extent, and being flippant about that is not going to get you anywhere here. This thread is littered with GAF members who do write lengthy impressions of games, both positive and negative, so do try to understand where we're coming from, too.

No offense and I respect your opinion but you wrote a 1-page essay on this subject. Sonic isn't a perfect game and it has some flaws but it's still fun and enjoyable. I can see analyzing things but you don't need to go overboard. Just enjoy what you like.

 

[qq more]

No offense and I respect your opinion but you wrote a 1-page essay on this subject. Sonic isn't a perfect game and it has some flaws but it's still fun and enjoyable. I can see analyzing things but you don't need to go overboard. Just enjoy what you like.

But she was enjoying the game. You were the one who got all upset because they analyzed its flaws and acted like everyone was trashing the game for the sake of it and then throw insults at them.

 

[Stumpokapow]

No offense and I respect your opinion but you wrote a 1-page essay on this subject. Sonic isn't a perfect game and it has some flaws but it's still fun and enjoyable. I can see analyzing things but you don't need to go overboard. Just enjoy what you like.

You realize that by doing this what you're saying is "don't bother posting here anymore" and the impact you're going to have is to make this thread more homogeneous and less welcoming for people who feel differently.

 

[steveovig]

You realize that by doing this what you're saying is "don't bother posting here anymore" and the impact you're going to have is to make this thread more homogeneous and less welcoming for people who feel differently.

Well, I'm not sure it'd make much of a difference anyways, in terms of sales.

 

[Mr-Joker]

the final boss is directly copied from a previous game.

That's the biggest problem with the game that it's trying so hard to be a Sonic Colours sequel while borrowing element from Mario and doing it wrong and throwing new ideas into the mix. The game has no clear direction and it shows in the level design with Frozen Factory Zone 4, Silent Forest Zone 3 and Sky road 4 being the worse.

As result the game is a huge disappointment.

 

[Dark Schala]

Well, I'm not sure it'd make much of a difference anyways, in terms of sales.

Sales have nothing to do with this, though? Official Threads are designed for everyone to discuss the game: positively, negatively, and maybe even critically. They're for people who are playing the game and wish to discuss it as opposed to people who are trying to advertise the game for consumers to purchase. OTs on GAF, as far as I know, don't generally have an impact on a game's sales, so I'm not entirely sure why you're addressing this aspect.

The point Stump was trying to make was that being disparaging--almost flippant and rude--towards other posters because they do look at video games differently is not going to serve any purpose other than making the thread one-sided with people who have differing opinions unable to freely express themselves.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Well, I'm not sure it'd make much of a difference anyways, in terms of sales.

Who gives a fuck about sales? You're being a jerkoff to well-meaning people who take time out of their day to try to participate in a community and should reasonably be able to expect people to be nice to them in return. It's not nice or respectful.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Well, I'm not sure it'd make much of a difference anyways, in terms of sales.

what in the fuck does that have to do with fuckin' anything

edit: whoops someone already noticed this was a stupid response and asked the same thing

 

[qq more]

Well, I'm not sure it'd make much of a difference anyways, in terms of sales.

?????? I don't get why you're bringing up sales?

 

[Hero of Legend]

How do I replay Nightmare Zone?

 

[Zonic]

How do I replay Nightmare Zone?

Either quit the game to the main menu or flat-out exit the game, back to the Wii U main menu or turn the system off, then return. Rather silly you can't just replay the level again, except just not get the reward the 2nd time within the same game session.

 

[Mr-Joker]

How do I replay Nightmare Zone?

Play another level and it will return after you finished it.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Ahh got it. I recall hearing you had to do some BS like re-enter the code again. Tried and of course it didn't work.