Ulysses 31
Member
So all the options she's showing that are on the C1 and not on the A90J don't matter?
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Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1
TKOFromTokyo
Member
He shits on basically every higher end tv for clicks. Most people that are spending the money on the A90J know what they’re getting vs the LG. The tv is for movie watching first, gaming second. I won’t give him any clicks because I’ve seen enough in the past. Therefore, I can’t speak to the individual content, rather his typical approach. He’s a joke to the AV crowd.
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TKOFromTokyo
Member
I’d probably go LG CX. I don’t think that the C1 is worth the price. It has all of the gaming features you’re looking for.
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Ulysses 31
Member
What TKOFromTokyo said if money's tight, otherwise the G1 for the higher brightness and more relaxed ABL.
ethomaz
Banned
I was thinking about that.
CX 55".
The C1 is not launched here yet and the CX is already in heavy discounts reaching R$4500.
I think I will wait the C1 launch to see if the CX goes even lower.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Yeah, makes sense to wait for the C1 to launch. I assume G1 prices in Brazil will be crazy, hence why I didn’t recommend it.
StateofMajora
Banned
Yeah if C1 is like 100 bucks more i'd get it since you do get better motion interpolation for movies and it seems like the new panel is on C1 models ; you don't get the higher peak brightness of the G1 but if the panel is using less electricity you may have a tad less burn in risk.
But no way is c1 worth 300 bucks more.
hououinkyouma00
Member
I couldn’t get 120hz working on HDMI 3 on any device. HDMI 4 worked fine.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
StateofMajora
Banned
Still waiting on Sony to contact me back, but they do everything they can to not get you a replacement of course. It’s the weekend so hopefully tomorrow. Will appeal several times if they say no though.
Definitely getting the A90J at the lowest price with mah BB warranty if not and am definitely not getting another oled without a heat sink.
I don’t even know if heat caused the banding but the less I worry about overheating the better lol.
If LG had a heat sink I might go with them if Sony denies me (out of spite xD) and it’s not like I can’t calibrate the LG. But yeah...
Definitely getting the A90J at the lowest price with mah BB warranty if not and am definitely not getting another oled without a heat sink.
I don’t even know if heat caused the banding but the less I worry about overheating the better lol.
If LG had a heat sink I might go with them if Sony denies me (out of spite xD) and it’s not like I can’t calibrate the LG. But yeah...
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Kuranghi
Gold Member
I'm dreading the day I have trouble with my ZD9 and have to do a warranty claim, its going to be:
Sony support: "We don't have the parts to repair your ZD9 so we will replace your TV with a the top backlit LCD model from this year, it has a new processor better than what you have now, what a upgrade you're getting!"
Me: *checks spec and finds out it has 32 dimming zones*
StateofMajora
Banned
Would they even cover you still? But yeah lol, hope it stays working bro.I'm dreading the day I have trouble with my ZD9 and have to do a warranty claim, its going to be:
Sony support: "We don't have the parts to repair your ZD9 so we will replace your TV with a the top backlit LCD model from this year, it has a new processor better than what you have now, what a upgrade you're getting!"
Me: *checks spec and finds out it has 32 dimming zones*
They got back with me and asked for pictures of every solid color slide on the youtube app. Gave it to em' yesterday morning, waiting on response.
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PaintTinJr
Member
I'm fully with you on your cocern.I'm dreading the day I have trouble with my ZD9 and have to do a warranty claim, its going to be:
Sony support: "We don't have the parts to repair your ZD9 so we will replace your TV with a the top backlit LCD model from this year, it has a new processor better than what you have now, what a upgrade you're getting!"
Me: *checks spec and finds out it has 32 dimming zones*
A week ago, I realised I'd missed the firmware update to 6.7140 - as the previous usb firmware install seemed to have stopped the over the air updates - and so I stupidly installed it, and it didn't go smoothly on my ZD9.
Thankfully the TV is working with no sign of an actual problem, but it had me thinking I'd bricked the set for about 10mins with it seeming like it was blank screening for ages, multiple times and doing too many reboots, and now the TV always shows a corrupt image (pixel fine colour garbage buffer) straight after the screen shuts down in a restart. I've tried reboot in safe mode, factory reset, even clearing storage cache's of every installed app after the factory reset, but still no change.
Now I'm worried the internal SD storage (the AndroidTV OS) lives on is on its way out. I wouldn't mind so much if the new 75" Z9J was priced already, and it was £6,000 at most, but realistically, if my ZD9 fails, I'll probably just have to either restore my old X9 to the lounge , get a budget TV for a year or two, until I could pickup a highly discounted 8K XR enabled Sony TV, or pay that money to get it repaired. I really wish there was a way to do a repair re-install of a TV's firmware with a laptop, like you can with Sony's smartphones/watches. The lack of a redundant external storage option for a TV's OS is a pretty crappy trojan horse setup for modern TVs too IMHO.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Really firmware updates are a bad idea on TVs. I never use them as streaming devices or anything so there's 0 reason for me, but you never know when an update will fuck something up.
A couple weeks ago was the first time I updated my A8h and it was only because I had to for Sony to start the claims process. Never even had it connected to Wifi.
But if there's an issue with a TV that a firmware can solve of course i'll update to that, and then promptly disconnect from the internet again lol.
PaintTinJr
Member
I did consider that back at day one, but the TV firmware has gone through multiple AndroidTV versions (6.0 -> 9.0 IIRC) and features like 4K youtube/iplayer, Netflix with Dolby Vision, HLG HDR weren't available prior to version 8.0 IIRC - with no external streamer boxes supporting them until much later than the TV got its update - and hdmi control was buggy, and AndroidTV seemed sluggish, so needed updates - or so I thought until I replaced the crappy virgin superhub3 with a high-end router.
We just got used to updating for streaming purposes, and as we use screen casting and Sony's Video & Tv SideView (remote control app) keeping the android kernel security patches up-to date seemed like a necessary security measure. With a newer Tv, today it is probably easier to just use an external box - while keeping the TV offline.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
This has happened to me as well since the last update, the garbage buffer before it goes to the android animation, only twice so far but I rarely restart the TV, I just turn soft power it off and its always plugged in at the wall. The blanking happened on first restart for me also, and I learned from this group that its happening to many people after the update, hopefully there is a final update at some point we can replace it with:
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Kuranghi
Gold Member
I bloody hope so lol, my ZD9 was manufactured on *checks back of telly* "2017/07" and I purchased it in the middle of 2018 so the 5-year guarantee is valid until mid-2023.
I can't wait to see Rift Apart natively on it, thats the definition of a game where most scenes will look as good if not better on FALD LCD, wish I could show you guys but obviously pictures are worthless.
StateofMajora
Banned
Oh that’s good. Surely they’ll have a mini led set by then.
Unlike Vinny, can’t say I’m a brightness whore (his words lol) and really put contrast ahead of brightness. With bfi off the A8h has really great hdr, and even with it on is very impactful esp. in darker games.
In bright hdr scenes with bfi it’s admittedly a bit lacking but hey perfect blacks and response times
But yeah if I end up getting the A90J I know if will be a big upgrade in terms of hdr highlights.
Kerotan
Member
My friend bought his X90J 55". He got it for €1400 down from €1600 they tried charging lol.
It turns out nearly all the calibration settings are the same as my x900f. He copied what I had set up which is basically to have the picture look as good as possible in game mode for low input lag.
Is this a good idea or because he has a different processor should he be using different settings?
It turns out nearly all the calibration settings are the same as my x900f. He copied what I had set up which is basically to have the picture look as good as possible in game mode for low input lag.
Is this a good idea or because he has a different processor should he be using different settings?
kyliethicc
Member
Pretty decent article to use.
Sony X90J Calibration Settings
We used the following calibration settings to review the Sony 55" X90J (XR55X90J), and we expect them to be valid for the 50" model (XR50X90J), 65" model (XR65X90J), and 75" model (XR75X90J).
www.rtings.com
Kuranghi
Gold Member
Oh that’s good. Surely they’ll have a mini led set by then.
Unlike Vinny, can’t say I’m a brightness whore (his words lol) and really put contrast ahead of brightness. With bfi off the A8h has really great hdr, and even with it on is very impactful esp. in darker games.
In bright hdr scenes with bfi it’s admittedly a bit lacking but hey perfect blacks and response times
But yeah if I end up getting the A90J I know if will be a big upgrade in terms of hdr highlights.
Apologies if you saw this before when I posted it but he explains here why he prefers ZD9/really bright LCDs for HDR overall over OLED, even given the perfect blacks and per pixel dimming:
As I understand it if a ZD9 and an OLED show a scene where there are no pixels under the minimum brightness of what the ZD9 can show given that frame, or at least the pixels/parts of the image that have a lower brightness/black level than what the ZD9 can display are perceptually the same due to how our eyes having adjusted for the brighter part of the image, then the bright part/highlights of the image being shown brighter on the LCD would mean the contrast is higher on the ZD9 vs. the OLED in that case.
There are a bunch of caveats to this because most imagery contains small dark parts that can't be shown properly on LCD, so I think in 99% of cases the OLED image will technically have higher contrast, but not necessarily perceptually higher contrast, I think thats what he's getting at when he says he prefers the HDR on the ZD9 for the scenes that challenge LCD.
I think you really need to see a ZD9/ZG9 (or Q9FN/Q90R) next to an OLED to see what this means in practice. Even a ZF9 next to an OLED will show something similar but the black level isn't as nearly as good as the former models.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
As you know I own a 75 inch Z9D.
After much research and in person comparisons I chose and paid $7950 for my Z9D over lower priced(at the time) OLED'S.
I also would luv Sony to return to it's tech with the newer HDMI 2.1 Features.
StateofMajora
Banned
Yeah i've seen that video years ago, but I did own a Zf9 briefly. I remember the highlights being really impressive, but the blooming was worse than even my x900e! With BFI off on A8h vs. what I remember seeing on ZF9 ; I wouldn't make that trade. Just talking about highlights, blooming aside.
Maybe if I had a Z9D I would watch hdr movies on it vs. my A8h (again though haven't seen what A90J brings to the table in person) but the thing is most of my content is still SDR since i'm not just watching/playing new HDR stuff. For SDR there's really no benefit to an LCD. Not trying to downplay how good the Z9D is though, no doubt it's an incredible set with no real upgrade path just yet. Only oled, but yeah of course you don't want to lose that HDR pop.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
Yeah ZF9 had terrible black level comparatively unfortunately.
What do you mean by the bolded part? Afaik SDR is still tonemapped to the sets capabilities, you don't get nearly as high real scene brightness as in HDR mode but its still twice as bright as an OLED, so you still get the benefits of the TVs high brightness in SDR.
Anyway I feel like I'm being annoying now so I'll leave it at that.
StateofMajora
Banned
Nah man, I enjoy talking to you about tvs. And you have an amazing LCD, I get it lol. I'd talk about it to if I had one but sadly I do not.
What I mean is for SDR oled gets bright enough for the 1-100 nit range of SDR (and correct me if i'm wrong) so not only is it bright enough but you get the perfect blacks. The only benefit to an LCD as I see it for SDR would be smoother motion in low fps content without using interpolation, and also lower lag with BFI since it doesn't incur a lag hit on Sony LCD vs. oled's 8ms hit.
AFAIK the extra brightness on LCD is only useful to mitigate the brightness in your watching environment ; i.e. I mostly watch at night and have darkening curtains.
And of course, just the better reliability of LCD which as you know i'm currently feeling that one myself atm haha. Still waiting on Sony to get back with me today. Oled still needs better materials and more robust heatsink solutions to finally get rid of image retention and make burn in a hard thing to get.
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PaintTinJr
Member
Thanks for the info - in your comment - sadly facebook isn't for me so will appreciate any nuggets of Z ownership wisdom you share from that group.This has happened to me as well since the last update, the garbage buffer before it goes to the android animation, only twice so far but I rarely restart the TV, I just turn soft power it off and its always plugged in at the wall. The blanking happened on first restart for me also, and I learned from this group that its happening to many people after the update, hopefully there is a final update at some point we can replace it with:
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In particular, I feel much better about my firmware update, now that you say this is common across ZD9's in your group. Your confirmation of the blank screening on update and getting the same garbage buffer in a restart sequence - before the Android animation loading - settles me more in thinking it is just an un-refined firmware and less likely an impending hardware failure for me
Hardware failure could be imminent though, still as the TV has seen a lot of action in the 4-5years, probably bordering on 15k hrs use or maybe much more - and despite looking as impressive as it was at day one - these things probably aren't designed for +10year use, like TVs of the CRT era. This is probably why I keep needing to have an alternative FALD option in mind, because when it fails I could never consider an OLED as an alternative - to take that family TV usage punishment.
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dolabla
Member
Well I might try it after all. Found out my local Best Buy has some 50" in. Honestly didn't think they were getting any of that size in. But they did somehow. Some employee last year told me they never have the smaller sizes when I was inquiring about the CX. I may see if I can get a cleaner panel from one of the units at Best Buy and I can ship this one back to Amazon since I'm still within the return window. I can also get that 45 day returns just in case of another price drop. Decisions, decisions
Btw, this tv is awesome. The XR processor really does seem to bring out the details.
Btw, this tv is awesome. The XR processor really does seem to bring out the details.
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Kuranghi
Gold Member
If you really need VRR don't buy Sony, they aren't going to support it for a while it seems. I think there are many reasons to pay the extra hundo for the Sony but if VRR is the most important factor then you shouldn't buy a Sony.
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dolabla
Member
I haven't seen the U8G yet. The X90J has excellent processing with the XR chip if you want clarity. Here's an upscaling comparison between a LG C1 and A80J with the XR to get an idea.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
What didnt you find impressive and compared to what other models? I ask so maybe we can all clear some stuff up for you and help you make a decision.
Personally I don't think theres a better deal at that price point, but it depends what you found disappointing.
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dolabla
Member
What are you coming from?
I love mine. I have the 50". It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination (no tv is), but the picture quality is awesome imo. It gets bright, it looks crisp, etc. Only thing I'm going to try and do now is see if I can get a little cleaner panel since I can get one local now. Going to do that sometimes this upcoming week.
Barneyco
Member
I was definitely looking at the xr chip and sony but the hisense seems to have everything i want for gaming. I am wanting to wait for some comparisons. The u8g is also $300-$400 cheaper which is important. I have heard horror stories about hisense in the past. I would get extended warranty with both. I probably can't go wrong with either.
Kilau
Member
The uniformity didn't seem great along with the motion clarity and color gamut. Viewing angle isn't great either but not a huge concern from me. The QNA85A seemed to do better at most of that but a higher price of course. I'm not looking at OLED at all because I lived with the nightmare of plasma image retention and I'm never going down that road again.
Currently the living room TV is a 2007! Samsung LCD 52" but it's developed some issues lately and obviously is very outdated. I have the PS5 and XSX hooked up to my 4k monitor currently but I want a TV with all the features they support. Also I am concerned about a clean panel.
kyliethicc
Member
Buy the TV with better IQ or value, don't just buy a TV just for VRR. Its a flawed feature on many TVs currently that can result in worse picture accuracy on some TVs, like the Samsung Q90T. And it doesn't even prevent all screen tearing, depending on the TV's implementation. Overhyped feature for console gaming IMO.
Barneyco
Member
Do you think the x90j is a better tv than the u8j? I'm waiting for rtings to do some comparisons.
dolabla
Member
Yeah. The gaming features definitely seem to be better on the U8G right now. Hopefully, Sony will add VRR soon. But even the PS5 doesn't have VRR yet. So I guess it's just a waiting game with them, lol.
I've never used a Hisense before, but I have read the praise they get for the price. I personally like accurate colors, clarity, etc and that always seems to be Sony's forte. Just speaking from experience, the X90J is an impressive set. Especially if you're coming from an older tv. It leaves my Sony X800D in the dust.
That should be an enormous leap for you in picture quality then, lol. That's one of the only complaints I have for the X90J is the dirty screen. It's not horrible, but it is noticeable. Mainly on solid colors (like NES games, etc) and panning the skies in games. Hopefully I can get a cleaner panel from Best Buy.
Barneyco
Member
I have a 55" ks8000 right now. It's a good tv but I really want a 65".
kyliethicc
Member
Well, last year, the X900H was a better TV than the H8G. But it cost more typically.
I don't know much about the U8G. I'd wait for Rtings and others to review it.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
The uniformity of the specific model I can't speak to because I've never seen it, but I doubt it will be noticeable in real content except cartoons, games with a solid colour art style like Nintendo games and ice hockey/football. Even then you'll probably only notice it when you know its there and focus on it ime.
The REC.2020 colour gamut part being under X% is not something you need to ever think about unless you are using the TV as a monitor for HDR image/video editing. It won't affect the quality of HDR video playback for you in a meaningful way imo.
Viewing angle will be bad on all FALD VA panel LCD TVs when compared to IPS panel TVs or OLEDs, but its a tradeoff for much better contrast/deeper black level and money saved respectively. If you don't think it'll matter to you then don't worry about it.
I personally don't like Samsung because the motion interpolation isn't great and causes artifacts, so if you plan to watch TV/movies on it a lot then get the Sony. If you just wait until August you'll get the X90J for the same if not less than what the Hisense is now, do that and you pay the cheaper price and get the better picture quality.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
I recommend the Sony, if its more than you want to spend right now then wait until August and you'll get the Sony $300-400 cheaper than it is now.
Kilau
Member
Thank you for the information. Can I ask why the price is expected to drop in August?
Kuranghi
Gold Member
Its just a year on year time when it normally does:
* TV's come out end of April - start of June
* Price drops from RRP a few weeks after launch
* Price drops substantially in Aug/Sept
* Maybe a bit lower on Black Friday (End of Nov)
* A bit lower in January the following year
* Cheapest/clearance price in March/April as the new models come out
The only thing is Covid kinda screwed this up, but in a good way, so they just went down to the cheapest price after a couple of months in 2020 prob because they knew everyone was stuck in the house and couldn't go to the store and would just buy the cheapest set sight unseen.
You can see what I mean with the 2020 equivalent of the X90J price comparison here:
Sony Bravia KE-65XH9005 (KD-65XH9005) 65" 4K Ultra HD (3840x2160) LCD Smart TV Best Price | Compare deals at PriceSpy UK
Compare prices on Sony Bravia KE-65XH9005 (KD-65XH9005) 65" 4K Ultra HD (3840x2160) LCD Smart TV TVs. Find deals from 0 shops and read reviews on PriceSpy UK. Compare offers from Sony.
It went to £999 at the beginning of June and the cheapest it ever went after that was £50 less. I think its different this year though because we are getting back to normal and they have the new processor so they will milk the price a bit longer I think.
I'm in UK so don't have US price equivalents sorry but I reckon £999 and £1249 will be about the cheapest the 55" and 65" X90J will be before clearance in 2022. Thats going by last years X900H final prices, taking into account the new processor and return to normalcy. So if you see the 65" close to £1249 I'd snap it up.
Personally I wouldn't pay more than £1499 for the 65" X90J, thats good value given its performance and considering previous years models. £1199 for the 55" is a good price.
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Kilau
Member
Ah okay, that makes sense. Thank you.Its just a year on year time when it normally does:
* TV's come out end of April - start of June
* Price drops from RRP a few weeks after launch
* Price drops substantially in Aug/Sept
* Maybe a bit lower on Black Friday (End of Nov)
* A bit lower in January the following year
* Cheapest/clearance price in March/April as the new models come out
The only thing is Covid kinda screwed this up, but in a good way, so they just went down to the cheapest price after a couple of months in 2020 prob because they knew everyone was stuck in the house and couldn't go to the store and would just buy the cheapest set sight unseen.
You can see what I mean with the 2020 equivalent of the X90J price comparison here:
Sony Bravia KE-65XH9005 (KD-65XH9005) 65" 4K Ultra HD (3840x2160) LCD Smart TV Best Price | Compare deals at PriceSpy UK
Compare prices on Sony Bravia KE-65XH9005 (KD-65XH9005) 65" 4K Ultra HD (3840x2160) LCD Smart TV TVs. Find deals from 0 shops and read reviews on PriceSpy UK. Compare offers from Sony.pricespy.co.uk
It went to £999 at the beginning of June and the cheapest it ever went after that was £50 less. I think its different this year though because we are getting back to normal and they have the new processor so they will milk the price a bit longer I think.
I'm in UK so don't have US price equivalents sorry but I reckon £999 and £1249 will be about the cheapest the 55" and 65" X90J will be before clearance in 2022. Thats going by last years X900H final prices, taking into account the new processor and return to normalcy. So if you see the 65" close to £1249 I'd snap it up.
Personally I wouldn't pay more than £1499 for the 65" X90J, thats good value given its performance and considering previous years models. £1199 for the 55" is a good price.
I have been a bit concerned the chip shortage might hit TVs. I don't mind waiting but if the living room TV dies and I can't get a replacement, the kids and wife will be up in arms
I'm looking at a 75" so I don't know if that size follows the same price drop pattern.
Kuranghi
Gold Member
Ah okay, that makes sense. Thank you.
I have been a bit concerned the chip shortage might hit TVs. I don't mind waiting but if the living room TV dies and I can't get a replacement, the kids and wife will be up in arms
I'm looking at a 75" so I don't know if that size follows the same price drop pattern.
Oh sorry I mixed you up with the other dude, for 75" I'd say £1699/1799 is the lowest it will go and £2199 is a good value price to buy it at if you cant wait until minimum price. I'm pretty sure you'll just be able to one delivered within a day or two when your current set dies, since its 75" though don't expect to be able to get one instore (This is the UK, prob different in US due to bigger stores) on the day necessarily, because they don't always keep that many 75" in stock for takeaway.
Also consider if it will even fit in your car haha, I say that because you mention wife and kids and I know even a day or two without the TV can be a massive hassle.