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[01011001]

Yeah, no. The MSX was a consortium type deal a la 3DO.

it was developed by Microsoft and ASCII, and then they licensed it out to different manufacturers to actually build the systems and market them.

 

[adamsapple]

it was developed by Microsoft and ASCII, and then they licensed it out to different manufacturers to actually build the systems and market them.

Morgan Freeman "he's right you know" jpg.

MSX is a standardized home computer architecture, announced by Microsoft and ASCII Corporation on June 16, 1983.[1][2] It was initially conceived by Microsoft as a product for the Eastern sector, and jointly marketed by Kazuhiko Nishi, then vice-president at Microsoft and director at ASCII Corporation.[3] Microsoft and Nishi conceived the project as an attempt to create unified standards among various home computing system manufacturers of the period, in the same fashion as the VHS standard for home video tape machines.[4][5]

 

[Three]

If you wanted the game to not run like ass, it was....it streamed textures off the disc, lol. If you spun around, nothing behind you would have textures for a noticeable amount of time, it certainly wasn't just "save you 8 seconds on the loading screen that's it" it was mandatory in all but name if you wanted a playable experience. There was a mandatory install on PS3 because of this, ironically. But sure...

Burnout Paradise requires it for multiplayer though....go ahead try to play online without installing it.

"Requiring an HDD" is a whole other can of worms though, as that is true for games outside of full game installation, such as every single Backwards Compatible game, the Forza titles, etc.

I'm not sure why you're pursuing this narrative though, all I said was that there were plenty of games that required an install, which is true.

Yeah pop in was shit. That was what I mentioned earlier. I'm not pursuing anything in particular I just said games running off the disc was mandatory back then. You said that was false and said these games required a HDD. They didn't really require one even if the experience was kind of shitty running from the disc. Mandatory patches for online are something else and they were required for anti-cheats/exploits.

 

[Little Chicken]

14 years ago...

Man 2008 was a good year for the Xbox 360 probably its best?

Fable II
Gears of War 2
Lost Odyssey
Left 4 Dead
Portal Still Alive
Castle Crashers
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts
Civilization Revolution
Braid
Fallout 3
GTAIV
Burnout Paradise
Far Cry 2
Ninja Gaiden 2
Rainbow Six Vegas 2
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
BF Bad Company
Tales of Vesperia
GRID
Deadspace
Tomb Raider Underworld
Saints Row 2
Mirror's Edge
Burnout Paradise
Ikaruga
A Kingdom for Keflings
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Condemned 2

wtf...

 

[Lognor]

But now he is taking Microsoft's money for this cloud game? LOL. Money talks I guess.

 

[ManaByte]

14 years ago...

Man 2008 was a good year for the Xbox 360 probably its best?

Fable II
Gears of War 2
Lost Odyssey
Left 4 Dead
Portal Still Alive
Castle Crashers
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts
Civilization Revolution
Braid
Fallout 3
GTAIV
Burnout Paradise
Far Cry 2
Ninja Gaiden 2
Rainbow Six Vegas 2
Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 2
BF Bad Company
Tales of Vesperia
GRID
Deadspace
Tomb Raider Underworld
Saints Row 2
Mirror's Edge
Burnout Paradise
Ikaruga
A Kingdom for Keflings
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Condemned 2

wtf...

People have revisionist goggles on these days about how huge the 360 really was that generation.

 

[Captain Toad]

Hard to have an audience if you don’t make product for it.

It's not like they haven't tried, mainly in the 360 years. Tales games, even an exclusive, did poorly on Xbox. Same with Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata.

At some point it was decided it just made sense to focus on where the target audiences were for these types of games.

Maybe MGS doesn't fit with those, but MGS 1-3 were already exclusive to PlayStation.

 

[TGO]

Yeah, no. The MSX was a consortium type deal a la 3DO.

Anybody that knows what a MSX is knows that.

 

[BattleScar]

That is 3 disc.
Some games had alot of disc's.

Plus didn't x360 and ps3 had internet?

He had alot of option. But opted out the easy way.

It explains why him and Konami had a fallout lately. You dont do stupid stuff like these, and miss out on those sales.

Then again it's Kojima. He lives in his own world.

Downloading a 30GB game onto a 360's 20-60GB HDD using 8Mb Broadband in 2008 would have been an honestly, horrific experience.

 

[kingfey]

Downloading a 30GB game onto a 360's 20-60GB HDD using 8Mb Broadband in 2008 would have been an honestly, horrific experience.

Sometime, I forget that the internet was super slow at that time.

 

[ACESHIGH]

To me its not about fanboysm or loyalty as some put it on this thread. Japanese suits are just that retarded. Just look at ATLUS... ffs From Software is making bank on PC these days thanks to a (western) modder fixing their Dark Souls port released as an afterthought.

 

[coffinbirth]

Yeah pop in was shit. That was what I mentioned earlier. I'm not pursuing anything in particular I just said games running off the disc was mandatory back then. You said that was false and said these games required a HDD. They didn't really require one even if the experience was kind of shitty running from the disc. Mandatory patches for online are something else and they were required for anti-cheats/exploits.

I misspoke, it was Final Fantasy XI. That was in 2006. I'm sure Microsoft actively discouraged mandatory installs, but they existed prior to the cross gen games, regardless.

Burnout Paradise prompts an installation when you choose multiplayer, not to be confused with the update(1.9) that wreaked havok on cloud saves when it went BC. Obviously storage is required for updates.

There are multiple examples of this going back prior to the ability to install games optionally, but unfortunately there really isn't a database of such things, but as I stated previously, they are the exception and not the rule prior to 2012.

There was, however, a hard rule that XBLA games couldn't exceed 50MB, then 150, then 350, before finally landing on 2GB back in 2009 or so.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But now he is taking Microsoft's money for this cloud game? LOL. Money talks I guess.

Depends if that's even true.

 

[Demigod Mac]

Probably not too far off the mark, considering it's not a matter of simply dividing up a 30GB game by 7.3 GB dual layer XGD2 DVD discs and calling it a day.
Many redundant assets (commonly used models, sounds, textures, music) would have to be replicated onto each disc and they'd also need to make the game compatible with X360s whose owners opted to not get a hard drive. (imagine how brutal the constant loading times would've been in that setup)

 

[anothertech]

Dam.

Sony vindicated lol

 

[01011001]

Probably not too far off the mark, considering it's not a matter of simply dividing up a 30GB game by 7.3 GB dual layer XGD2 DVD discs and calling it a day.
Many redundant assets (commonly used models, sounds, textures, music) would have to be replicated onto each disc and they'd also need to make the game compatible with X360s whose owners opted to not get a hard drive. (imagine how brutal the constant loading times would've been in that setup)

the game always only used about ~6GB per chapter. you had to install for 3 to 5 minutes after each chapter and that would load the important assets onto the HDD and erase the unimportant ones from the HDD, loading only smaller assets from the disk to speed up loading times.

so basically, they could have easily split the game into 1 disc per chapter. a dual layer disc can hold more than enough data for that, and that is without even considering shrinking the video files, which are BY FAR the biggest reason it is that big in the first place.

compress them to a lower quality format (not like back in those days your TV was good enough to actually notice a difference like that that much) and split the game onto 5 discs.

 

[Lognor]

Depends if that's even true.

Sounds like it is. Maybe we'll hear about it next month

 

[kingfey]

Sounds like it is. Maybe we'll hear about it next month

That showcase would give us all the answers we want. Meanwhile try to avoid all the rumors, and fake info.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

I was watching a documentary video about mgs4, and the game was developed entirely with the ps3's hardware in mind.

From the infamous cpu, the bluray drive, etc. If they went and cut out a lot of stupid stuff the game has, it could have been ported surely, but then it wouldn't have been Kojima's greatest acid trip.

Fucking dev team even went to take express military training to make the game more accurate

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sounds like it is. Maybe we'll hear about it next month

Sounds like it is?

Something come up in his Twitter?

Edit: What happened with his Twitter since you just liked this comment?

 

[BaneIsPain]

More the reason for Sony to fund Kojima's for exclusivity.

 

[A.Romero]

I don't know how you could type that onto your browser with a straight face on Neogaf when the game won GOTY......TWICE

Dude, I know. I was around back then. I try not to miss any MGS thread here and what you usually see is people ranking MGS4 pretty low.

MGS3 actually has several sequels (portable games and MGSV) and even a Pachinko machine. There are none for MGS4. Every Metal Gear game has been re-released in one way or another but MGS4 hasn't at all.

I know how GAF voted back then but my point still stands (with a straight face).

 

[Varteras]

People have revisionist goggles on these days about how huge the 360 really was that generation.

 

[SSfox]

Begging for playstation exclusives: The Thread

 

[SkylineRKR]

When MGS4 came out 360 still had pathetic HDD storage, so all their games had to run directly from disc and digital games were very small.

But he could still release it on 4 discs, its quite a linear game. The PS3 version installs each act, which takes a long ass time. There is always a possibility. They could also release it once the 360 S was out, and require HDD installation. The plus would've been that MGS4 would've likely been playable on newer Xbox systems, and perhaps boosted.

 

[GamesDontSuck]

While Konami and Sony not signing a deal to make mgs4 exclusively is news. I recall something being said about the reason why ps3 was soley chosen was because of blu ray back in the day. Before the games release we're taking.

I can't remember if it was Kojima or whoever but someone did say it was too big for an xbox 360 release.

 

[ParaSeoul]

While Konami and Sony not signing a deal to make mgs4 exclusively is news. I recall something being said about the reason why ps3 was soley chosen was because of blu ray back in the day. Before the games release we're taking.

I can't remember if it was Kojima or whoever but someone did say it was too big for an xbox 360 release.

It was the blu ray and he was really into the idea of the Cell processor from early on.

 

[kovskaya]

Kojima is a "genius". It seems that the two way to play mgs 4 outside of original console are Steam Deck or PC emulation.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Lmao that's amazing. I remember every outlet implying that it was only a matter of time. Especially when that green ring logo was teased by Kojima productions before E3, which ended up being MG Rising.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

*makes fun of swapping discs*
*also makes you sit through 5-10 min installs between acts*

As far as I remember you could install everything before the first act but okay

 

[GHound]

As far as I remember you could install everything before the first act but okay

This was only true four years post launch when the game was also updated with trophy support to coincide with its release as part of the Legacy Collection.

Unfortunately MGO2 was also shut down not long before the update dropped. No free lunch!

 

[Despiralman69]

If no game mastered the Cell chip, was the Cell chip really that good? Theoretically, maybe. realistically, no.

Nah it really wasnt that good at all, fact it is was confusing for every mutliplatform developer says it all, id probably say the ps3 was definitely top 3 for worst consoles out there, good games just a horrible machine that never hit stable 30fps

 

[kanjobazooie]

It's not like they haven't tried, mainly in the 360 years. Tales games, even an exclusive, did poorly on Xbox. Same with Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata.

At some point it was decided it just made sense to focus on where the target audiences were for these types of games.

Maybe MGS doesn't fit with those, but MGS 1-3 were already exclusive to PlayStation.

MGS2 was on Xbox too, but your point still stands.

 

[Fuz]

Guys, don't be hard on him.

His head is stuck so far up in his own ass that's it's hard to program for other consoles.

 

[Guilty_AI]

As far as I remember you could install everything before the first act but okay

That option was only added years later ifrc.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you can't stream games from blue-ray discs. Reading speed is too slow. Which is why PS3 came with an HDD.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Nah it really wasnt that good at all, fact it is was confusing for every mutliplatform developer says it all, id probably say the ps3 was definitely top 3 for worst consoles out there, good games just a horrible machine that never hit stable 30fps

To hold that view you are completely ignoring that the console hardware released at a time when PC games were largely still designed around single core (2-way) 2 threads and an Opengl 1.4-2.0 or DirectX 8 - 9.0B GPU with less than 256MB RAM and 256MB VRAM requirements - which the Cell BE PPU and RSX and XDR/GDDR3 in the PS3 matched or exceeded.

The 360 was only considered easier because it was released mid-gen long before HD-ready(720p/1080i) was defacto TV standard so developers in the first 12month didn't have any pressure to hit 720p30 or multi-core CPU use, it had unified RAM and it had a symmetrical multi core CPU which helped with easier transition to multi-core following the PC shift, even though that is less useful for that gens games compared to 6 extra SPUs to compute on.

Split Second is a game to go back and look at IMO. The developers made lots of comments about liking/preferring the 360 in develop magazine, etc at the time and then released a game that pushed both consoles hard. The 360 was missing the entire tunnel GI light gathering and couldn't hit 720p - unlike the PS3 - and could only just avoid screen tearing most of the time - unlike the PS3. If a multiplatform developer like them that preferred the 360 got so much more out of the PS3, so was everyone else for most of that generation when given equal time and resources to use both consoles - regardless of how Richard at DF successfully framed things.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Kojima didn't want to be dealing with trying to fit 30GB of data on a 8GB disc.

You know that any Xbox 360 game could come with multiple discs, right ?
That's a false problem, some games were released with 4 discs, yeah, FOUR.

 

[SkylineRKR]

You know that any Xbox 360 game could come with multiple discs, right ?
That's a false problem, some games were released with 4 discs, yeah, FOUR.

Yep, Lost Odyssey. FFXIII too I think. It wasn't ideal, PS3 would ship every game on one disc, but it wasn't impossible. And once you could install, it was a non issue really.

 

[solidus12]

So, I just rewatched the TGS 2005 trailer, and the last part where Otacon talks about the Cell processor and how it is the key to winning the console war…

Hard to believe that Sony had no involvement in that lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

it was developed by Microsoft and ASCII, and then they licensed it out to different manufacturers to actually build the systems and market them.

Which Sony, a Japanese company, where a Japanese developer made their game, was the main well known unit in Japan. Which goes back to my original point, in Japan, they were hyped for MGS on the Sony PS, since the series had its roots on the branding. Nobody thought of MS or even ASCII.

Just trying to split hairs here, where there are none. Clever back history, sure, but not based in branding reality when it comes to consumer products and perception.

 

[Captain Toad]

MGS2 was on Xbox too, but your point still stands.

My bad, I thought it was one of those that came years later.

 

[solidus12]

I believe only MGS3 was a PS2 exclusive until the release of the HD collection.

The HD collection lacked content like Snake vs Monkeys and Snake’s nightmare mini game.

 

[marquimvfs]

Nevermind, read better the quote and understood better...

 

[Kadve]

yeah Bayonetta was basically a console exclusive, tailored to specific hardware, that a Sega internal team hastily ported over... and it shows lol

Actually they outsourced to a small company called Nextech. It didn't have to be a disaster though if they hadn't given said company like a couple of months or so to actually make the port.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I played collection 10 years ago and I got the say, I haven't forget anything from it. Despite having pretty severe memory loss in 2019.

Of all the memories you could have retained… your mind saved Metal Gear Solid 4.

 

[Despiralman69]

To hold that view you are completely ignoring that the console hardware released at a time when PC games were largely still designed around single core (2-way) 2 threads and an Opengl 1.4-2.0 or DirectX 8 - 9.0B GPU with less than 256MB RAM and 256MB VRAM requirements - which the Cell BE PPU and RSX and XDR/GDDR3 in the PS3 matched or exceeded.

The 360 was only considered easier because it was released mid-gen long before HD-ready(720p/1080i) was defacto TV standard so developers in the first 12month didn't have any pressure to hit 720p30 or multi-core CPU use, it had unified RAM and it had a symmetrical multi core CPU which helped with easier transition to multi-core following the PC shift, even though that is less useful for that gens games compared to 6 extra SPUs to compute on.

Split Second is a game to go back and look at IMO. The developers made lots of comments about liking/preferring the 360 in develop magazine, etc at the time and then released a game that pushed both consoles hard. The 360 was missing the entire tunnel GI light gathering and couldn't hit 720p - unlike the PS3 - and could only just avoid screen tearing most of the time - unlike the PS3. If a multiplatform developer like them that preferred the 360 got so much more out of the PS3, so was everyone else for most of that generation when given equal time and resources to use both consoles - regardless of how Richard at DF successfully framed things.

Mate most 99% of multiplatform games were dog shit on ps3, it took ea years get there ganes at an sub par quality, even red dead redemption on ps3 is a horrible game to play, so was gta 4, screen tearing was rife, every developer mentioned working on ps3 was a nightmare saying it was to alien to work on, i can happily go back and play some ps2 games but ps3 games are awful

 

[M1chl]

Of all the memories you could have retained… your mind saved Metal Gear Solid 4.

No I am mean all of them. Not just MGS4, probably written it badly.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Well, we all know how FFXIII looked and played on 360. Never in a million years would, a perfectionist like Kojima, have agreed to that level of downgrade.

 

[Thabass]

I always thought Kojima was just a Sony guy and didn't really want to work with any other console other than PlayStation. That kinda confirms my take on it.