Kaz has already stated that the US as the third most profitable market for Sony behind Japan and Europe. His focus is to strengthen Japan, then expand Europe, then finally the US. This is in terms of hardware. The US makes Sony a LOT of profit from Sony Pictures and Sony Music Entertainment.
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Sony FY12: $400M Net Income; PS3/PS2 16.5M; Vita/PSP 5M forecast
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Kaz has already stated that the US as the third most profitable market for Sony behind Japan and Europe. His focus is to strengthen Japan, then expand Europe, then finally the US. This is in terms of hardware. The US makes Sony a LOT of profit from Sony Pictures and Sony Music Entertainment.
GAME:
Sales decreased 12.2% year-on-year (a 15% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 707.1 billion yen (7,522
million U.S. dollars). Sales to external customers decreased 22.5% year-on-year. This significant decrease was
primarily due to a decrease in unit sales of PlayStation®3 (“PS3”hardware and PSP® (PlayStation Portable)
(“PSP”
impact of foreign exchange rates.
Operating income decreased 27.6 billion yen year-on-year to 1.7 billion yen (18 million U.S. dollars). This
significant decrease was primarily due to the above-mentioned decrease in sales of PSP hardware and software as
well as the impact of a strategic price reduction for the PS Vita, enacted in Japan in February 2013
Does that mean Sony shipped less than 1.8 million Vita hardware units this FY?
Thus, making its LTD less than 3.6 million?
(LTD was 1.8 million in the previous fiscal year)
MikeE21286
Member
Wow is that true?
That's not good for sure. There are PS4 costs wrapped in there too as well.
Maybe a better comparison would be FY13 once that wraps up.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
It's actually because they didn't have a decent mid-range offering from sell through data. Last time they had the Arc S which was cheap. This time they had the T/TX and V, none of which were particularly good devices or very well received by reviewers and the cost was way higher than Arc S. The Xperia P was also discontinued too early and that was a fairly decent seller.
Xperia Z and Xperia J accounted for most of Sony's sales in the quarter just reported, the mix in last year's quarter was much more varied and it helped that Xperia S was only £399/449 instead of £529/599 and they were able to keep it in stock. The current quarter will be interesting because they just started shipping Xperia SP and L both of which are pretty strong mid-range phones where Sony has historically done very well and Z/ZL shipments should be decent also.
I don't know, if you look at the legs of the PS2, and especially with prices drops etc. 10 years would give it until 2016/17.
Plus the Z only went on sale in February this year.
Yeah. The 360 may have legs as well, but it only really does well in the US and UK, so it'll reach market saturation before the PS3 does.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
Sounds plausible, making a lot of this "second place" talk relatively moot - as I expect MS to cut their price this year.
I don't think that's what it means - since they also state PSP decreased Y/Y?
EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot PSV wasn't included in FY11. Hmm. Possible?
Cornbread78
Member
OK, so outside of the gaming side....
They really need to fix their TV sales and consumer electronics division. Everyone can remember when anything Sony was golden on the market, but now, not so much.... They let Samsung, LG and Vizio get way too far in their jock and they were not ready to handle it. They need to reinvigorate that home electronics team and start a clear marketing campaign, especially in the US. I mean, 4K is great, but that is not going to push sales. They need to put themselves on teh market as a "premium" product with an affordable price. They have not done that and have been completely swallowed up by the Korean TV makers....
Get it together men....
They really need to fix their TV sales and consumer electronics division. Everyone can remember when anything Sony was golden on the market, but now, not so much.... They let Samsung, LG and Vizio get way too far in their jock and they were not ready to handle it. They need to reinvigorate that home electronics team and start a clear marketing campaign, especially in the US. I mean, 4K is great, but that is not going to push sales. They need to put themselves on teh market as a "premium" product with an affordable price. They have not done that and have been completely swallowed up by the Korean TV makers....
Get it together men....
A price drop will probably come when the next big game comes.
1st Course
Member
Not possible. Sony reported 2.2m Vita sold as of June 30, 2012 (Q1). That mean they sold 5.6m Vita/PSP in the last 3 Qs. Vita LTD being 3.6m means that the Vita sold only 1.4m in the last 3 Qs, it sold more than that in Japan alone.
Frankfurter
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
Part of that 2.2M was the launch shipments and Japanese shipments for FY11, that for some reason are omitted from details about FY11.
AgentChris
Member
Kaz knows what he's trying to do. He's really proactive. Sony Pictures is going nowhere; he needs it.
Basileus777
Member
So never?
net income after taxes, yes... operating income was $2.5 billion actually.
Sony pays a lot of taxes, Its weird tax situation, I dont understand it, maybe zomgbbqftw can.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Still won't be enough for 360 to take back the place. Also, I would be surprised if a $199 PS3 doesn't show up around the time of Gamescom. There is a lot of evidence mounting that Sony/IBM have been working on smaller chips for PS3 so they will have cost reductions available to ensure they don't eat into margins.
The 2.2 million was a LTD figure and includes the 1.8 million in the FY11 Q3 and Q4.
What it means is that Sony shipped only 0.4 million Vita in FY12 Q1. We don't know FY12 Q2, Q3 and Q4.
electroplankton
Banned
From July 2012 to March 2013, Vita sold around 700k units in Japan.
Duxxy3
Member
Uncharted is still the best reason in the west to own a vita (and for the foreseeable future).
Bundle uncharted with PSN+, a memory and price it at $199 or $179 and the sales will come.
edit: just remembered that uncharted comes with PSN+. So just throw a 6 month or 1 year PSN+ card with a memory card and sell it for $179.
Brad Grenz
Member
Sony stopped production, but they probably still had units to sell.
The big shipment this quarter for PS2+PS3 probably includes them selling away the remaining PS2 stock.
even if they had units it wont sell half of 3.4m ..perhaps 500k out of that total max, since no one wants a ps2
even by generous estimates ps3 sold close to 2.5m last quarter, taking it above x360 in global sales
EDIT : their profit margins could be higher . They have actually written off some profit as deferred R&D costs. clever SONY
This shouldn't be possible. It's right at or over 1m in all the three big regions. (US, Europe and Japan). That alone guarantees at least 3.5 million sold. Then there is the rest of the world and a big chunk of Europe is also left out of Nintendos quarterly figures. I estimate the sell-through for Vita at around 4.2-4.4 million, so shipments must be at around 5 million.
From the 2012 sales thread:
PSV 1,164,000 (13 countries of Europe) 690,839 (J) 1,280,000 (US) 3,135,000
and thats from 2012 alone.
Because nobody cares about anything other than windows and office. When you own two golden geese no one gives a shit about your other pets. They just want to know whether the geese are healthy.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
zomgbbqftw
Banned
OK, so the software forecast for 2013/14 includes downloaded software. Done by sales volume. Explains the increase in the software forecast.
Confirms that smartphone shortfalls come from non Xperia Z models. That matches up with the sell through data.
Confirms that smartphone shortfalls come from non Xperia Z models. That matches up with the sell through data.
Canis lupus
Member
Thanks, listening now.
Xperia Z a success, older models sold less than they expected
I'm assuming it'll be that way going forward.
Also has NDP started including downloaded software? Doubtful considering the problems inherent there.
No. Npd does a separate report on digital sales via Nielsen-like end user surveys.
That would surely get msft investors' attention.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Wow, surprised at that operating income drop. I understand sales are down a bit, but there has to be some other major cost at play, my guess is ps4 R&D and production ramp up.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Blames Win8 for falling PC sales and losses in Vaio division.
Smartphone losses - spent money on turning business around, losses are done, costs money to integrate Sony product into phones and product development. That is done, so next year it won't be a problem. They spent a lot of money on marketing and building a supply chain and reducing the headcount.
Smartphones are going to be profitable for the current year.
TV sales going up. Saying 2013 was a poor year but LCD income deteriorated so much so they slimmed down in 2013. In 2011/12 they lost money on every single TV model sold. :O
TV line up reduced to ensure unit profitability. Losses reduced by half. New cost structure for profitability, driven by better products. Answer seems muddled tbh.
Smartphone losses - spent money on turning business around, losses are done, costs money to integrate Sony product into phones and product development. That is done, so next year it won't be a problem. They spent a lot of money on marketing and building a supply chain and reducing the headcount.
Smartphones are going to be profitable for the current year.
TV sales going up. Saying 2013 was a poor year but LCD income deteriorated so much so they slimmed down in 2013. In 2011/12 they lost money on every single TV model sold. :O
TV line up reduced to ensure unit profitability. Losses reduced by half. New cost structure for profitability, driven by better products. Answer seems muddled tbh.
2.5m shipped last quarter would mean the best yet for the PS3, which doesn't make sense when sales to consumers in Europe, Japan and US are below the past couple of years. My guess is Sony sold all the remaining PS2 stock for little to no money.
Well, it doesn't match the sold to consumers figures, but we have to keep in mind that: 1) those are estimates; 2) the numbers for Europe are Nintendo's estimates on top of the sales tracker estimates.
It's very much possible Nintendo has been overestimating Vita sales in Europe.
Father_Brain
Banned
5M Vita/PSP forecast is basically the first real admission from Sony of what's been obvious to most of us for some time: that Vita's current sales situation isn't salvageable. I expect them to act accordingly.
Don't expect much time to be spent on Vita at the E3 press conference; don't expect a wave of major software announcements at E3, Gamescom, or TGS; don't expect that big a marketing push for Killzone or Tearaway; and don't expect SCE to put any real effort into pushing Vita as a PS4 accessory.
I don't even think an NA/EU price cut is a sure thing anymore, though it's still more likely than not.
Also, looks like Sony has scheduled their corporate strategy meeting for the 22nd. Possibly more details about their plans for specific game platforms there.
Don't expect much time to be spent on Vita at the E3 press conference; don't expect a wave of major software announcements at E3, Gamescom, or TGS; don't expect that big a marketing push for Killzone or Tearaway; and don't expect SCE to put any real effort into pushing Vita as a PS4 accessory.
I don't even think an NA/EU price cut is a sure thing anymore, though it's still more likely than not.
Also, looks like Sony has scheduled their corporate strategy meeting for the 22nd. Possibly more details about their plans for specific game platforms there.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
CAPEX reduced on manufacturing and assembly. Good.
R&D streamlined to better areas. Less wasteful than in the past, concentrate resources to a few key areas, three pillars mentioned.
Increase R&D for gaming is specifically for development of software for PS4.
R&D streamlined to better areas. Less wasteful than in the past, concentrate resources to a few key areas, three pillars mentioned.
Increase R&D for gaming is specifically for development of software for PS4.
where do you see sales falling across europe? As for Nintendo's data, thats an internal estimate based only on 13 PAL regions. Sales have fallen only in US but SONY has also found some emerging markets . x360 sales from q1 '12 fell just 10% although it sells just in USA. It means sales might have risen in emerging markets for both consoles
With PS3, you can expect a higher than expected sales, since unlike x360, it sells all across the globe. No need to tweak those numbers. SONY sold close to 2.5m ps3s at the least. SONY discontinued the production of ps2s last Jan
you are joking, right?
EDIT: beaten
According to this thread, PS3 is selling truck loads in the "emerging market" so it doesn't matter the sale numbers declined in Europe, Japan and US.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Reiterates wait and see approach for US smartphone market. No entrance into the US market this fiscal year. Wow. So much for the H2 flagship being available on all carriers in the US.
Let's assume Nintendo was 100% incorrect and Vita sold 0 units so far in Europe:
US: 1.28 in 2012 according to NPD +~100k this year so far = 1.38 million
Japan: 1.5 million
Total of two countries: 2.88 million. That's without Canada, whole of Europe, Australia, Asia, South America, Central America, Middle East and so on.
Still unsure about this? It definetly has sold more than 3.6 million, so it definetly shipped a lot more than that.
Sales-Agers rely too much on three regions here. The truth especially for Sony systems is, that they are really selling well outside of these regions. It could be very much possible that the PS3 has seen growth in countries like Mexico (which is not that of a small market), Eastern Europe, Russia, Middle East (again not small if lumped together), Asia and South America (really huge if lumped together).
The HTC One and the Samsung Galaxy S4 came out in April, they will murder the Z.
Half a year ago they were the 3rd smathphone maker, now they are not in the Top 5.
I expect Xperia Z to be very successful. It wont replace iphones/sammys but it would be successful
Canis lupus
Member
Yeah they're repeating what has been said previously, strengthen marketshare in Japan and Europe, then focus on America later.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
1 yen movement against the Dollar is 3bn yen negative operating impact. 6bn yen positive operating impact for the Euro.
High level of fixed dollar costs in outsourced manufacturing causes this. They have always said they are dollar neutral overall so that's not anything new.
High level of fixed dollar costs in outsourced manufacturing causes this. They have always said they are dollar neutral overall so that's not anything new.
This makes no sense. Leaving such a huge market to Samsung and HTC is idiotic.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
yeah, the vita is dead. the ps4 has more hype than the vita ever had, and from the looks of it, 1st and 3rd party support too. and if you look at the ps3, it has a lot more planned out for this year than the vita.
to me, they should have never released the vita and focused all their efforts on home consoles.
basically he said they will not make major push and resource investment, but doesn't mean that they wont do anything at all.