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[lh032]

In most games that PC will absolutely walk consoles.
A 12400F is leagues leagues better than Ryzen 3000s CPUs.
A 2070S or 3070 for a 100 or so extra dollars wont be "on par" with a PS5.
There will be outlier games such as Spiderman but generally speaking what that 7-800 dollar PC can do, consoles simply cant match.
If you watched the DF video i posted, that PC is running better than console more often than not.

And how the fuck am i supposed to know how much PC parts cost in your country.
I dont know how much a PS5 costs in your country, but that doesnt change the fact generally speaking PS5s are listed as $500 on here......we dont count tax, we dont count the euro price, we dont count the price in Venezuela, we simply use the "internet agreed" price of $500.
The prices I listed is the general price of those parts.

tbh, most people who owns a console already have a PC for other thing else.
PC optimization is horrible in most cases from what i seen.
I dont see any point of building a low-mid tier PC but thats just me.

 

[Gaiff]

The price is $399 by the way. PCs don't have physical games either, so it's best to compare with the digital version anyway.

I've quite literally never seen the digital only PS5 in stock. The disc version outnumbers it like 20:1 and the PS5 is already constantly selling out, so let's not pretend that you can actually find the digital version.

And a $700 gaming PC sounds like a dream in today's market. RTX 3070, which isn't that far away from PS5's power as PS5 matches 3070 in games like Death Stranding, is alone $569.

The 3070 is still more than 25% faster in Death Stranding which as Black_Stride said is an outlier. You also got games like A Plague Tale: Requiem where the 3070/2080 Ti are 47% faster than the PS5. And if you throw in RT, you're looking at completely different tiers of performance.

I think the notion of trying to match a PC to console for the same price is silly. But I also think anyone claiming "you only build PCs to have way better specs than consoles" is equally silly. Consoles are simple, cheap, and convenient. PCs are customizable, can range from dirt cheap to insanely expensive, and tailored to the needs of the owner.

Not to mention that you can do like many of us and simply get both.

 

[Gaiff]

I dont see any point of building a low-mid tier PC but thats just me.

Many people are on a budget and don't care for 4K, RT, and all that new stuff. They're fine at 1080p/60 with medium settings. Additionally, some (perhaps even most) aren't playing AAA games. Those who play Fortnite, CSGO, Overwatch, or less demanding games can get by just fine with a modest configuration.

You also have the fact that PC's entire catalog is pretty much backwards compatible and you got an immense library of indie, F2P, emulators, and a lot of other stuff. People often harp about how powerful PCs can be but the truth is, that's not even close to being the most appealing feature of PC gaming.

The fact that most people play on low to mid tier rigs and that you cannot see the point tells us you don't even understand why people play on PC in the first place.

 

[winjer]

These devs probably looked at how much bloatware MS is shipping with Windows 11 and concluded that most users will be spending 16GB on useless crap.

 

[Black_Stride]

The price is $399 by the way. PCs don't have physical games either, so it's best to compare with the digital version anyway.

And a $700 gaming PC sounds like a dream in today's market. RTX 3070, which isn't that far away from PS5's power as PS5 matches 3070 in games like Death Stranding, is alone $569.

Dont have an ebay or craigslist analog where you live?
Who buys a generation or two old GPU at MSRP?

tbh, most people who owns a console already have a PC for other thing else.
PC optimization is horrible in most cases from what i seen.
I dont see any point of building a low-mid tier PC but thats just me.

I live in the so called low-mid tier.
Ive been an xx70 owner since the GTX 260c216 (low-mid tier lol)
And even with this new generation no game that has come out has made me think ohh gee I really need a nextgen console cuz my low-mid tier PC simply cant handle all this awesomeness.
Cuz....it can
and it does.

Why would I buy a console now when my "low-mid" tier PC is running everything just fine?


<---Still not a console hater, still just Anti-Anti-PC Gaming.

 

[Gaiff]

Dont have an ebay or craigslist analog where you live?
Who buys a generation or two old GPU at MSRP?

I live in the so called low-mid tier.
Ive been an xx70 owner since the GTX 260c216 (low-mid tier lol)
And even with this new generation no game that has come out has made me think ohh gee I really need a nextgen console cuz my low-mid tier PC simply cant handle all this awesomeness.
Cuz....it can
and it does.

Why would I buy a console now when my "low-mid" tier PC is running everything just fine?


<---Still not a console hater, still just Anti-Anti-PC Gaming.

Wouldn't call the x70 series low-mid tier. They're solidly upper mid-tier if not high tier most of the time. x60 is mid-tier, yeah. Low tier is like x50.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Has any game that recommended 32GB of RAM ever even used more than 16GB?

For instance of head:
Flight Simulator New York - ~14GB
Cyberpunk 2077 - ~11GB
Red Dead Redeption - ~11GB
Dying Light 2 - ~12GB
WarZone 2 - ~12GB

So if I was to hazard a guess even Returnal will be in the 10GB range.
But im assuming the devs are assuming you also have a bunch of Chrome Tabs open to look at walkthroughs for the game?

It accounts for all the garbage that you need to have running in the background when streaming on twitch for your audience of 5 viewers.

 

[lh032]

Dont have an ebay or craigslist analog where you live?
Who buys a generation or two old GPU at MSRP?

I live in the so called low-mid tier.
Ive been an xx70 owner since the GTX 260c216 (low-mid tier lol)
And even with this new generation no game that has come out has made me think ohh gee I really need a nextgen console cuz my low-mid tier PC simply cant handle all this awesomeness.
Cuz....it can
and it does.

Why would I buy a console now when my "low-mid" tier PC is running everything just fine?


<---Still not a console hater, still just Anti-Anti-PC Gaming.

Nah ebay sucks here and no craiglist
Plug and play, no troubleshooting required, no annoying launchers, no software driver crap and possibility "always online DRM" diablo 3 cough cough

 

[Heisenberg007]

Dont have an ebay or craigslist analog where you live?
Who buys a generation or two old GPU at MSRP?

I live in the so called low-mid tier.
Ive been an xx70 owner since the GTX 260c216 (low-mid tier lol)
And even with this new generation no game that has come out has made me think ohh gee I really need a nextgen console cuz my low-mid tier PC simply cant handle all this awesomeness.
Cuz....it can
and it does.

Why would I buy a console now when my "low-mid" tier PC is running everything just fine?


<---Still not a console hater, still just Anti-Anti-PC Gaming.

That is the listed price, no?

If you want to compare PS5's MSRP with PC GPU's in the used market with non-listed price, how would that comparison be even valid?

Besides, you want to compare the listed price anyway

I dont know how much a PS5 costs in your country, but that doesnt change the fact generally speaking PS5s are listed as $500 on here......we dont count tax, we dont count the euro price, we dont count the price in Venezuela, we simply use the "internet agreed" price of $500.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

No? But I have played almost everything else that was ported to PC. They were all boring. Hence my post.

So, you haven't played the game but are saying it's "boring" because some other games were "boring"?

I think you should give Returnal a try before making such a judgement.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I've quite literally never seen the digital only PS5 in stock. The disc version outnumbers it like 20:1 and the PS5 is already constantly selling out, so let's not pretend that you can actually find the digital version.

Yes, it is relatively short in supply, but I have, luckily. I know many people who have also got one. The lack of availability should not be a factor, though, because GPUs and many other PC parts have also been short in supply.

The 3070 is still more than 25% faster in Death Stranding which as Black_Stride said is an outlier. You also got games like A Plague Tale: Requiem where the 3070/2080 Ti are 47% faster than the PS5. And if you throw in RT, you're looking at completely different tiers of performance.

I think the notion of trying to match a PC to console for the same price is silly. But I also think anyone claiming "you only build PCs to have way better specs than consoles" is equally silly. Consoles are simple, cheap, and convenient. PCs are customizable, can range from dirt cheap to insanely expensive, and tailored to the needs of the owner.

Not to mention that you can do like many of us and simply get both.

I do have both, my friend. I play games on PS5 (mostly) but have PC setups for non-PS exclusive games (which, tbh, aren't many).

The discussion, however, was that you can build a PC for $700 that can significantly outperform PS5.

(1) I don't think that's a fair way to look at it because if it costs you 2x, I sure hope it outperforms the console by at least 2x, or else what's the point even, and
(2) It's nearly impossible to build a high-performing gaming for $700 as the 3070 GPU alone (which doesn't outperform PS5 by 2:1) costs more than $550 on its own.

You need a $2,000 PC to outperform PS5, and even then it wouldn't be by 2x or 3x. But it will cost you 5x more than a PS5.

 

[tommib]

This will be the stutter port that will break Alex Battlefield Earth. From depression to hospitalisation.

 

[Graciaus]

So, you haven't played the game but are saying it's "boring" because some other games were "boring"?

I think you should give Returnal a try before making such a judgement.

I think you should learn how to read.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yes, it is relatively short in supply, but I have, luckily. I know many people who have also got one. The lack of availability should not be a factor, though, because GPUs and many other PC parts have also been short in supply.

I do have both, my friend. I play games on PS5 (mostly) but have PC setups for non-PS exclusive games (which, tbh, aren't many).

The discussion, however, was that you can build a PC for $700 that can significantly outperform PS5.

(1) I don't think that's a fair way to look at it because if it costs you 2x, I sure hope it outperforms the console by at least 2x, or else what's the point even, and
(2) It's nearly impossible to build a high-performing gaming for $700 as the 3070 GPU alone (which doesn't outperform PS5 by 2:1) costs more than $550 on its own.

You need a $2,000 PC to outperform PS5, and even then it wouldn't be by 2x or 3x. But it will cost you 5x more than a PS5.

A PS5 isn’t a like for like comparison to a PC though.

PS5 isn’t even remotely close to the same library of games, has weak BC, and can’t even improve older PS4 games without a special patch for each game.
You’re stuck with Fidelity FX only, and often the old version. You have to pay for cloud service, pay for online, have no competing digital storefronts, and no cheap game bundles.
Your paid Plus service is a glorified rental service where you keep nothing.

So it’s disingenuous to carry on like PC simply costs more, when in reality you’re getting far more for your money.

And who is paying $560 for a 3070 these days? You can get a Radeon 6750 for under $500, and it comes with Calisto Protocol and Dead Island 2, which alone would set you back $140 plus tax on a PS5.

Build costs have come down considerably now that the mining craze died. You don’t need $2,000 to beat a PS5.

While a PS5 is a nice cheap game box, it’s extremely limited, and doesn’t offer anywhere close to the same experience.

 

[Gaiff]

The discussion, however, was that you can build a PC for $700 that can significantly outperform PS5.

Nobody claimed that. Black_Strider said that you didn't need $2500 to game on PC and posted a $700 build that was around console specs.

(1) I don't think that's a fair way to look at it because if it costs you 2x, I sure hope it outperforms the console by at least 2x, or else what's the point even, and

The higher you go up the ladder, the more diminishing returns you get. A 4090 is 3x the price of a 3070 and doesn't outperform it by 200%.

(2) It's nearly impossible to build a high-performing gaming for $700 as the 3070 GPU alone (which doesn't outperform PS5 by 2:1) costs more than $550 on its own.

No one claimed that. He made a $700 build with console specs and said that with $100 more, you can replace the Arc A770 with a 3070, but that's incorrect. It's more like $150-200. You can also go with a cheaper RX 6700 XT that also outperforms consoles and that costs $330.

You need a $2,000 PC to outperform PS5, and even then it wouldn't be by 2x or 3x. But it will cost you 5x more than a PS5.

No you don't. Quit lying. You can build a PC sporting an RTX 3080 Ti for that price and that's twice as fast as the PS5 in raster and more than that in RT. A build with a 3060 Ti will outperform the consoles and that won't cost you $2000. That's also ignoring DLSS which widens the gap by quite a bit.

Price and performance don't scale linearly. Generally, the sweet spot is around the x60/x70 cards. The x80 tends to be a bit worse and anything above that has been silly since the post 1080 Ti days.

And why do you guys always crash these PC threads with your console talk? You just can't stop yourself. This is about the PC release and you have the usual idiots barging in with "Hur hur, old game I played already!" "You need a $10,000 PC to get a PS5 experience".

I'm done with this discussion that's not even related to Returnal anymore. Not interested in this warring nonsense.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Nobody claimed that. Black_Strider said that you didn't need $2500 to game on PC and posted a $700 build that was around console specs.

The higher you go up the ladder, the more diminishing returns you get. A 4090 is 3x the price of a 3070 and doesn't outperform it by 200%.

No one claimed that. He made a $700 build with console specs and said that with $100 more, you can replace the Arc A770 with a 3070, but that's incorrect. It's more like $150-200. You can also go with a cheaper RX 6700 XT that also outperforms consoles and that costs $330.

No you don't. Quit lying. You can build a PC sporting an RTX 3080 Ti for that price and that's twice as fast as the PS5 in raster and more than that in RT. A build with a 3060 Ti will outperform the consoles and that won't cost you $2000. That's also ignoring DLSS which widens the gap by quite a bit.

Price and performance don't scale linearly. Generally, the sweet spot is around the x60/x70 cards. The x80 tends to be a bit worse and anything above that has been silly since the post 1080 Ti days.

And why do you guys always crash these PC threads with your console talk? You just can't stop yourself. This is about the PC release and you have the usual idiots barging in with "Hur hur, old game I played already!" "You need a $10,000 PC to get a PS5 experience".

I'm done with this discussion that's not even related to Returnal anymore. Not interested in this warring nonsense.

oh wow. You seem pretty defensive and hurt for no reason. Relax. Enjoy the game when it comes.

 

[Guilty_AI]

*DDR5 has entered the chat*

tbf you don't need a ddr5. Its only really useful if you're after ultra high FPS gaming.

Well, its a different story if you're already using a ddr5.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

My 92GB RAM upgrade is finally redeemed!

I am guessing you do a lot of editing?

 

[Gaiff]

oh wow. You seem pretty defensive and hurt for no reason. Relax. Enjoy the game when it comes.

I'm defensive because you've been spreading a bunch of misinformation. "$2000 PC to outperform a PS5" is completely false and I suspect that you're aware of this.

tbf you don't need a ddr5. Its only really useful if you're after ultra high FPS gaming.

Well, its a different story if you're already using a ddr5.

And even then, it only makes a significant difference when clocked highly with a high-end 13th gen Intel CPU. AMD CPUs don't benefit much from RAM beyond 3600MHz.

DDR4 3600MHz will never be a problem with a 60 or even 120fps target. It's also much cheaper than DDR5 5600MHz which is the minimum speed you should go for if you want to get anything out of DDR5.

I'm also certain that I've seen other games (maybe 1 or 2?) recommending 32GB of RAM but I can't recall off the top of my head.

 

[Thebonehead]

Wouldn't call the x70 series low-mid tier. They're solidly upper mid-tier if not high tier most of the time. x60 is mid-tier, yeah. Low tier is like x50.

PC Gaming in a nutshell

 

[Orta]

Not exactly a big deal is it? I have 16gb of corsair ddr4 ram, another 16 of the same comes in at just over €60.

 

[OverHeat]

Flexing his 64GB of DDR5

 

[Black_Stride]

Wouldn't call the x70 series low-mid tier. They're solidly upper mid-tier if not high tier most of the time. x60 is mid-tier, yeah. Low tier is like x50.

Thats exactly why I said low-mid tier lol.

A 2070S was never low-mid.
A 3070 is not low-mid
Why that cat decided to call xx70 level GPUs low-mid tier is beyond me.

Its probably part of the misconception that you need to spend 2000 dollars on a PC to "enjoy" PC gaming.
xx70s are usually best bang for buck.
If I had a 3070 I wouldnt be upgrading it any time soon to play at console levels.
Id straight up skip the 4070 and go to the 5070.

I dont think we will really need to upgrade from Alderlake or Zen 4 to match consoles....sure there will be outliers but willing to bet 12th gen and 5000 CPUs will outlast the PS5/XSX generation.

That is the listed price, no?

If you want to compare PS5's MSRP with PC GPU's in the used market with non-listed price, how would that comparison be even valid?

Besides, you want to compare the listed price anyway

Ill gladly amend the PS5 price if you show me a bunch of second hand PS5s going for much less than MSRP.
Cuz I can show you a bunch of RTX 2070Ss and RTX 3070s going for under MSRP.
The reason I didnt use second hand prices for the CPU/MOBO is because the price drop on a second hand 12400 or B660M isnt worth mentioning.
But GPU prices on marketplaces have dropped significantly, there is no logical reason to buy one at MSRP when there are so many going for much less.

And why is the comparison valid you ask?
Because thats part of the charm of PC gaming.
A two generations old RTX 2070S is still a valid card that can play games at PS5 quality.
A generation old RTX 3070 is a very valid card that can play at or above PS5 quality.
So why would they NOT be valid in this conversation?

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Maybe that's necessary to account for the lack of the PS5 I/O subsystem. They need to load more to RAM at every given point, or maybe that's just an exaggeration of the requirements. We will see soon enough. My PC already have 32Gb of RAM and I'm sure the game will work fine with 16.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Fyi- Upscaling is not exclusive to console.

Forced upscaling is.

 

[Xdrive05]

I just doubled my RAM (16GB-32GB) for $50. Benefits of still being on a DDR4 platform I guess. Got lucky and the Corsair RAM I bought was also single rank, so it paired well my single rank 2x8 kit I've been using for years, to get a big boost on my Zen 3 CPU (which gives up to 10% more performance if you're using 4x8 single rank DIMMS, or 2x16 dual rank DIMMS alternatively).

It's possible they're offsetting the PC's lack of dedicated I/O by simply using more RAM to pre-load content compared to PS5. That was one theory on how next-gen only games would work on PCs. But I'm more inclined to think they're just being cautious and 16GB will work fine.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

I think you should learn how to read.

You said you weren't interested in another boring Sony port.

Someone then asked if you'd even played the game Returnal.

You then replied no, but you had played other Sony ports and found them boring.

Again, to reiterate, you referenced a line in bold that had asked you if you'd even played it and you said no you hadn't.

I responded that you shouldn't really give an opinion if you haven't played it.

You then told me to learn how to read.

Now, you should probably apologise for your stupid outburst and acknowledge you are in the wrong.

Or, scurry off to your hole and in future keep your mouth shut.

I'm not fussed which.

 

[CobraAB]

Has any game that recommended 32GB of RAM ever even used more than 16GB?

For instance of head:
Flight Simulator New York - ~14GB
Cyberpunk 2077 - ~11GB
Red Dead Redeption - ~11GB
Dying Light 2 - ~12GB
WarZone 2 - ~12GB

So if I was to hazard a guess even Returnal will be in the 10GB range.
But im assuming the devs are assuming you also have a bunch of Chrome Tabs open to look at walkthroughs for the game?

I thought Flight Simulator had 32 GB as a recommended spec?

 

[sankt-Antonio]

2500 dollar PC?

12400F - 150
B660M - 150
16GB RAM - 50
PSU - >100
2070S - 200
SSD - 70

Total = ~$700


And before you tell me the above machine is well too underpowered for current games:


For an extra 100 or so dollars you can even get an RTX3070 and basically glide through the generation.

Wouldn't you need a case, controller, fans, cables etc. in addition (all included in the console price)?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I thought Flight Simulator had 32 GB as a recommended spec?

It does for "Ideal Specs."

 

[sinnergy]

Only 32? Isn’t that standard now?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Wouldn't you need a case, controller, fans, cables etc. in addition (all included in the console price)?

You can buy a good M&K and a case both for less than $50 together. Fans and cables are all included in the package of the parts.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Only 32? Isn’t that standard now?

For savy shopper, but if you're an average smoe going out to a Target or other store you're seeing misleadingly marketed powerful" laptops for $500 or more with celeron integrated graphics, or lowend AMDs with 16GB of ram or 20 something. Maybe at $700 you'll get a 1050 or something.

 

[Diseased Yak]

Need more people from the KB club for their first computers. /old

Hehe 64k for me, then I upgraded for a short time to 128kb, and then 512 before getting an Amiga 2000 with 1 whole MB of RAM! I was cooking with gas!

 

[Fafalada]

Forget cross-play, I'd like to know whether there's cross-save/progression? Actually I'm pretty sure that's been in none of their games this gen(correct me if I'm wrong - I'd like to be on this one), but there *was* precedent for when Sony first started doing cross-play, cross-buy and the like, nearly 14 years ago, where games even had saves carry over across more than 2 platforms sometimes.

Not sure that it's any better with MS, though I haven't followed-it there closely. But even aside for platform-holders/publishers, this really is something all devs would do well to get a bit more - open about, especially with advent of more form-factor options to play than ever, and with online factoring so heavy into many games it's almost inexcusable it's not standard these days...

 

[Sentenza]

I'm good.
Still trying to decide if I should care about Returnal, though.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

wonder how much itll actually use.
16gb is more than enough for the vast majority of games.
...cant tell if poorly optimized, or we actually getting into next gen...

 

[darrylgorn]

You should be fine with 16 if you play at 1080p.

 

[nowhat]

This will be the stutter port that will break Alex Battlefield Earth. From depression to hospitalisation.

...and it will be a glorious day.

 

[TintoConCasera]

cables

 

[Kenpachii]

To be honest 32gb should have been the standard for every new gaming PC already for half a decade by now. 16gb is absolute minimum

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Have no intention of playing this on any platform. Not my type of game but 32GB should be the standard for most gaming PC's nowadays anyway

To be honest 32gb should have been the standard for every new gaming PC already for half a decade by now. 16gb is absolute minimum

Lol this basically. I didn't read the comment above mine before typing lol.

 

[lukilladog]

To be honest 32gb should have been the standard for every new gaming PC already for half a decade by now. 16gb is absolute minimum

To play what?. I've yet to see any game breaking the 11gb barrier (including system usage), I've had 5gb doing absolutely nothing forever.

 

[Kenpachii]

To play what?. I've yet to see any game breaking the 11gb barrier (including system usage), I've had 5gb doing absolutely nothing forever.

Games move over the 8gb, 16gb demands have been common for a while now, and if you got a PC big chance u got background tasks running so u move over the 16gb of consumption sooner rather then later. which makes 32gb the next step and the sweet spot to sit with. Specially if you got more monitors and use chrome on another monitor while u game then u want more memory.

Look if you bought a PC and want to safe money then 16gb is a good hold over, but expect to upgrade at any point in time really already for years.

 

[lukilladog]

Games move over the 8gb, 16gb demands have been common for a while now, and if you got a PC big chance u got background tasks running so u move over the 16gb of consumption sooner rather then later. which makes 32gb the next step and the sweet spot to sit with. Specially if you got more monitors and use chrome on another monitor while u game then u want more memory.

Look if you bought a PC and want to safe money then 16gb is a good hold over, but expect to upgrade at any point in time really already for years.

But they recommend 16gb because we don't have 10gb kits, even Callisto and Plague Tale Requiem would run fine with that. The other 6gb might not sound like much but it is an effective 60% space extra... so we are not anywhere close to needing that much memory and should be plenty for the rest of the generation.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

Games move over the 8gb, 16gb demands have been common for a while now

BS. games dont commonly use more than 16GB of system RAM.

 

[peronmls]

Must be to help loading because having an SSD still wont cut it I guess.

 

[ACESHIGH]

Watch it run at 30 fps on 8GB, pagefile and a run of the mill SSD. I still remember when. Metal gear rising "required" a 3770k ffs...

 

[Stooky]

May be because the world is procedurally generated and you can fast travel between rooms. I think it will hold a lot memory to keep the game snappy and mimic ps5 performance.

 

[SenjutsuSage]