MikeM
Member
Considering a 7600x is about 2.5x- 3x perf increase over PS5's CPU, i'd say a solid CPU increase will occur based on that alone. The system is rarely CPU bottlenecked anyways unless its a shit engine (UE5 for example).
PlayStation 6: Sony says future platforms ‘top of mind’, exploring ‘new and enhanced’ ways to play
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Hardware Hype
WorkGraphs is of course part of next-gen, but don't expect too much adoption from devs as the engines/tools they use don't support this style of graphics programming (procedural generation), specially in the cross-gen period.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
The PS6's resolution is crucial for predicting the hardware.
in next-gen-current-gen games ( because, believe me, there are still PS4 games pretending to be PS5 games) the native resolution has been around 2 and 3 million pixels at 30fps (gta 6, hellblade 2) independent of the output resolution
The PS6 likely aims to improve the output resolution via AI, but the rendering resolution tends to remain at 2.5 million pixels imo.
Therefore, simply increasing the GPU is enough to achieve next-gen results. Understand that the PS4 2.25x the ps3 resolution and 2x frame rate from 720p30fps to 1080p60fps (in PS3 software). But if the resolution didn't change, we'd have a PS4 with 720p60fps in PS3 games or 720p30fps in next-gen games. Maintaining the same resolution reduces the need for gpu power.
Therefore, I deduce that the PS6's GPU will be the RX 9070 (a different architecture, a different name, but the same processing power) cause this gpu really 2x ps5 gpu.
in next-gen-current-gen games ( because, believe me, there are still PS4 games pretending to be PS5 games) the native resolution has been around 2 and 3 million pixels at 30fps (gta 6, hellblade 2) independent of the output resolution
The PS6 likely aims to improve the output resolution via AI, but the rendering resolution tends to remain at 2.5 million pixels imo.
Therefore, simply increasing the GPU is enough to achieve next-gen results. Understand that the PS4 2.25x the ps3 resolution and 2x frame rate from 720p30fps to 1080p60fps (in PS3 software). But if the resolution didn't change, we'd have a PS4 with 720p60fps in PS3 games or 720p30fps in next-gen games. Maintaining the same resolution reduces the need for gpu power.
Therefore, I deduce that the PS6's GPU will be the RX 9070 (a different architecture, a different name, but the same processing power) cause this gpu really 2x ps5 gpu.
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Kazekage1981
Member
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Yeah, my point is that HW/API will be there, but tools used by developers don't support this type of procedural generation, so most developers will not use it for a few years.
Aces High
Member
It is not.
Most hobbys have static upfront costs. Or they only demand an additional investment in case something breaks.
Gaming has constantly evolving hardware targets. So you are forced to buy new stuff in cycles.
Games aren't one time purchases anymore. Predatory monetization such as DLC and season passes have become the industry standard. GaaS are designed to keep you paying continously.
We see basic functionality hidden behind subscription services.
Modern gaming feel like toll roads. Every few miles, you're expected to cough up more cash. I don't see that in any other hobby.
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SomeNorseGuy
Gold Member
This articles seems to agree with you
K
KeplerL2
https://wccftech.com/playstation-6-work-graphs-adoption-cross-gen/
https://wccftech.com/playstation-6-work-graphs-adoption-cross-gen/
DevilHunterX0
Member
"exploring 'new and enhanced' ways to pay"
FTFY. Companies spent more money in market research than R&D nowadays.
FTFY. Companies spent more money in market research than R&D nowadays.
Why do they need to make articles out of any random thing I say hereThis articles seems to agree with you K KeplerL2
https://wccftech.com/playstation-6-work-graphs-adoption-cross-gen/
Stuff like this makes me less likely to talk about any of the actual interesting things I know.
Deerock71
Very Poor Hoice of Wor
They see the market, and they realize their current direction is a bit long in the tooth.
TheRedRiders
Member
Why do they need to make articles out of any random thing I say here
I could have sworn they've been doing this for years to you, right?
News articles are one thing, but then there's certain tech centric Youtubers who ride off some of your leaks and speculation. They've almost made a career out of it. I don't want to mention names.
The infamous "KeplerL2 on Neogaf has said this, and my sources tell me something similar, but another source said it's not the case", the last part is a cheap effort from their part to avoid accountability.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Ive lost so much trust in Sony when it comes to actually delivering on hardware promises after this gen. PS5 Pro for $800 has been a bad joke. Not only has PSSR been disappointing but Sony hasn't improved their own games very much for this thing. They botched the Pro as far as im concerned- can't get pssr updates pushed out automatically like we see upscalers do on PC. Sony can't even give us major improvements for big titles liks DS2 and Yotei (which looks so disappointingly last gen).
Sony hasn't bothered to update their engines for RT features that could've allowed the ps5/ps5 pro to actually produce next gen looking stuff. Instead Sony is getting beat this gen by the likes of Ubisoft. Sony started out fine with Demon Souls, Ratchet, and Forbidden West then literally stopped trying to make gamea that pushed graphics- this is the reason we bought ps5 to begin with! Ragnarok, gt7, last of us 1 "remake", spiderman 2, and now ghost of yotei are all examples of Sony taking advantage of the good will of their customers and coasting off reputation and media shills. Graphically speaking.
To not even have a mention that "we have extra features for our Pro owners coming" for games like DS2 and Yotei is crazy tp me.
Sony hasn't bothered to update their engines for RT features that could've allowed the ps5/ps5 pro to actually produce next gen looking stuff. Instead Sony is getting beat this gen by the likes of Ubisoft. Sony started out fine with Demon Souls, Ratchet, and Forbidden West then literally stopped trying to make gamea that pushed graphics- this is the reason we bought ps5 to begin with! Ragnarok, gt7, last of us 1 "remake", spiderman 2, and now ghost of yotei are all examples of Sony taking advantage of the good will of their customers and coasting off reputation and media shills. Graphically speaking.
To not even have a mention that "we have extra features for our Pro owners coming" for games like DS2 and Yotei is crazy tp me.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Isn't it a lock that it'll be at least Zen5 just due to timing? The hope was that it'll be Zen6 if it comes out in 2028 or later.
Audiophile
Member
Should concoct something really silly that's untrue, see if they take the bait, then if they report on it they get egg on their face, they may be less likely to report every little thing, but folks here will still largely trust what you say.Why do they need to make articles out of any random thing I say here
For eg. "The PS6's secret sauce is an Optical Neural Complex (ONC) that runs in the region of 10-12 OoO Jama FLIPS with 8 Independent RAILS feeding Cerny's own Shallot Bus, resulting in zero contention for Morphological Geometry Operations".
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No_Cartridge
Neo Member
My sources have mentioned the ONC and Morphological Geometry Operations being a game changer. They mentioned up to 14 Jama Flips but that's subject to change.
I've also heard the rays used in the tracing have been captured from the sun and injected into each chip! Huge if true.
winjer
Member
Zen6 has already been sampled to AIB partners. So it's very likely to be released in early 2026 on the PC desktop. And that means 2027 for APUs, including the PS6.
The question is when the PS6 will release. If it's for 2028, then Zen6 is very likely.
But if it's 2030, then it might even be Zen7.
winjer
Member
Zen6 has been confirmed to be using N2P. So if the PS6 is to release around 2028, then it's probable that it will also use N2P.
But Sony can choose to use any other process node, if they want to.
Zen6 monolithic APUs are still using N3P, that's the most likely node for the PS6.
PeteBull
Member
BS, we critiqued ps5pr0 with its terrible 700$/800€ discless pricepoint(not coz its bad price, its bad value coz for that price increase ps5pr0 should be way stronger), and if u check poll of worst playstation console- its ps5, not to mention how much we call out on sony gaas/wokeness initiative, rightfully so.
Reason for all that is- we dont wanna go in the footsteps of xbox fans who didnt call out microsoft shaenanigans for over a decade only to end up with no console next gen(and no, prebuild pc with xbox sticker/app slapped on top of it is far from proper xbox console, whats even worse- xbox didnt use this opportunity to go with nvidia that are much more advanced in both rt and ai upscaling so literally 0 reason to chose it for gamers, unfortunately
.
Ar¢tos
Member
8 year old account with less than 200 posts. It's an Alt, don't waste your time on it.BS, we critiqued ps5pr0 with its terrible 700$/800€ discless pricepoint(not coz its bad price, its bad value coz for that price increase ps5pr0 should be way stronger), and if u check poll of worst playstation console- its ps5, not to mention how much we call out on sony gaas/wokeness initiative, rightfully so.
Reason for all that is- we dont wanna go in the footsteps of xbox fans who didnt call out microsoft shaenanigans for over a decade only to end up with no console next gen(and no, prebuild pc with xbox sticker/app slapped on top of it is far from proper xbox console, whats even worse- xbox didnt use this opportunity to go with nvidia that are much more advanced in both rt and ai upscaling so literally 0 reason to chose it for gamers, unfortunately
Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Probably add a "Netflix" button to the pad and call it a day.
Mobilemofo
Member
Or a "Quick purchase" button on the control pad itself.
yurinka
Member
Bullshit, Sony broke their sales records with titles released in 2020, 2022, 2023 and 2024, published the games that got the biggest amount of goty awards in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2024, plus almost every single year they're the company with the biggest number of GOTY awarded or finalist games.
And there's a ton of people who wants to play (and plays) Sony GaaS like MLB, GT, Destiny and Helldivers.
My bet is November 2027, repeating the 7 years distance with its predecessor that PS5 and PS4 had. That would also match the estimate mentioned in the ABK court case and the hardware components timing.
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Kazekage1981
Member
So Moores Law is Dead youtuber is saying that PS6 is going to about 4090 performance. As much as I wish that, there are several issues:
1) The desktop quality card with huge power draw alone causes $1000+
2) How are you going to squeeze 83 TFLOPS of FP32 performance?
Unless AMD with their engineers do their magic of price to performance/efficiency and squeeze all of that in UDNA.
Another problem is MSFT is trying to release their 'next-gen' ahead of PS6 and have avoided a pro console, so what will they use for their GPU? RDNA 4.5?
I would rather both companies use their time and use a completely brand new built from the ground up UDNA. I dont know much about UDNA, but its unfortunate that AMD products cant be a league on their own and always have to trail and be compared to INTEL/NVIDIA
1) The desktop quality card with huge power draw alone causes $1000+
2) How are you going to squeeze 83 TFLOPS of FP32 performance?
Unless AMD with their engineers do their magic of price to performance/efficiency and squeeze all of that in UDNA.
Another problem is MSFT is trying to release their 'next-gen' ahead of PS6 and have avoided a pro console, so what will they use for their GPU? RDNA 4.5?
I would rather both companies use their time and use a completely brand new built from the ground up UDNA. I dont know much about UDNA, but its unfortunate that AMD products cant be a league on their own and always have to trail and be compared to INTEL/NVIDIA
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Audiophile
Member
This is my ballpark prediciton for the moment (see below), I think -- vs the $399 PS5 Digital launch console -- most of the minor components come in at the same or very similar cost to that; and that 24GB G7 & 2TB PCIe5 NVMe in 2027 comes in roughly the same or even a bit less than the 16GB G6 & 825GB PCIe4 NVMe did in 2020 (even with recent price bumps).
With a suggested price point here of $599 (no disc drive as standard) that leaves them an extra ~$200 or so to spend vs the PS5 Digital, if they want to come in at launch roughly break even or with a very small loss.
I understand the APU in the original PS5 was believed to be around $150-160 on the BoM, so this allows them to spend a little over double that on the PS6 APU while also leaving a few extra bucks to further bolster thermals and power delivery/management a little as they're likely gonna have to push those pretty hard this go around. The APU of course will be much more expensive given the cost of modern node wafers and the specs I'm suggesting below will probably put it at the top end of what Sony are comfortable with in terms of die size.
I know the PS5 Pro comes in at $699 now, but 1) we're talking 2+yrs from now, 2) that's a low volume device on a 2yr old node at launch vs a higher volume device on a 3+yr old node at launch, 3) it's marketed to a more hardcore audience and 4) the money men likely wanted it marked up to get a short term cost recoup and knew they could largely get away with it. I don't think it's particularly representative of where a mainstream launch PS console needs to be price-wise; whether that be in terms of cost or what is a viable price to get the larger consumer base on board.
With a suggested price point here of $599 (no disc drive as standard) that leaves them an extra ~$200 or so to spend vs the PS5 Digital, if they want to come in at launch roughly break even or with a very small loss.
I understand the APU in the original PS5 was believed to be around $150-160 on the BoM, so this allows them to spend a little over double that on the PS6 APU while also leaving a few extra bucks to further bolster thermals and power delivery/management a little as they're likely gonna have to push those pretty hard this go around. The APU of course will be much more expensive given the cost of modern node wafers and the specs I'm suggesting below will probably put it at the top end of what Sony are comfortable with in terms of die size.
I know the PS5 Pro comes in at $699 now, but 1) we're talking 2+yrs from now, 2) that's a low volume device on a 2yr old node at launch vs a higher volume device on a 3+yr old node at launch, 3) it's marketed to a more hardcore audience and 4) the money men likely wanted it marked up to get a short term cost recoup and knew they could largely get away with it. I don't think it's particularly representative of where a mainstream launch PS console needs to be price-wise; whether that be in terms of cost or what is a viable price to get the larger consumer base on board.
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Xbox 360 slim
Member
If PS6 can't play PS3 games and PS2, i'm out.
Xbox 360 slim
Member
All the xbox fans moved to PC.BS, we critiqued ps5pr0 with its terrible 700$/800€ discless pricepoint(not coz its bad price, its bad value coz for that price increase ps5pr0 should be way stronger), and if u check poll of worst playstation console- its ps5, not to mention how much we call out on sony gaas/wokeness initiative, rightfully so.
Reason for all that is- we dont wanna go in the footsteps of xbox fans who didnt call out microsoft shaenanigans for over a decade only to end up with no console next gen(and no, prebuild pc with xbox sticker/app slapped on top of it is far from proper xbox console, whats even worse- xbox didnt use this opportunity to go with nvidia that are much more advanced in both rt and ai upscaling so literally 0 reason to chose it for gamers, unfortunately
Jayjayhd34
Gold Member
This is my ballpark prediciton for the moment (see below), I think -- vs the $399 PS5 Digital launch console -- most of the minor components come in at the same or very similar cost to that; and that 24GB G7 & 2TB PCIe5 NVMe in 2027 comes in roughly the same or even a bit less than the 16GB G6 & 825GB PCIe4 NVMe did in 2020 (even with recent price bumps).
With a suggested price point here of $599 (no disc drive as standard) that leaves them an extra ~$200 or so to spend vs the PS5 Digital, if they want to come in at launch roughly break even or with a very small loss.
I understand the APU in the original PS5 was believed to be around $150-160 on the BoM, so this allows them to spend a little over double that on the PS6 APU while also leaving a few extra bucks to further bolster thermals and power delivery/management a little as they're likely gonna have to push those pretty hard this go around. The APU of course will be much more expensive given the cost of modern node wafers and the specs I'm suggesting below will probably put it at the top end of what Sony are comfortable with in terms of die size.
I know the PS5 Pro comes in at $699 now, but 1) we're talking 2+yrs from now, 2) that's a low volume device on a 2yr old node at launch vs a higher volume device on a 3+yr old node at launch, 3) it's marketed to a more hardcore audience and 4) the money men likely wanted it marked up to get a short term cost recoup and knew they could largely get away with it. I don't think it's particularly representative of where a mainstream launch PS console needs to be price-wise; whether that be in terms of cost or what is a viable price to get the larger consumer base on board.
Would really hope for better than gigabit ethernet I'm on 2.5gigabits.
awwr999999
Member
Easiest way to do that is to look at what they already have (PS1, PS2, PS3) and start R&D from one of their existing platforms.
PS2 games took 1-2 years to make with the development tools of 20 years ago and would be significantly easier to make with modern tools and an updated SDK.
They could significantly improve the PS2's EE and GS while keeping things BC for existing PS2 games and probably keep new game development time in the 1-2 year range.
They could significantly improve the PS1's HW and keep things BC for existing PS1 games while keeping new game development time in the 6 months to 1 year range.
They could add the PSN along with full DualSense functionality to both the PS2 and PS1.
Sony could make a responsive TV that does 480i/720p for this improved PS2 (via plug-and-play) and also sell millions of them to Switch owners.
If this PS2 took PS2/PS1 memory cards and wired DualShock 1/2 controllers it would be a PS2 console and sales would tack onto the existing PS2 sales numbers.
Kazekage1981
Member
Time Stamped at 5:30.
I hope AMD will use some sort of texture compression technology which reduces VRAM in half or even more.
So if you were to stack: checkerboard rendering, FSR4.0+, workgraphs, texture compression and other efficiency techniques, i am hoping that 60fps will be standard.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Your comment makes no f******* sense.
The PS6 GPU will be UDNA based. Why should the PS6 GPU be on 9070 level??
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
The important thing is the processing power, the architecture is just a way to make such power viable.Your comment makes no f******* sense.
The PS6 GPU will be UDNA based. Why should the PS6 GPU be on 9070 level??
for example the ps6 is weaker than an rtx 4090. This means that the power of the ps6 already exists now but not in an apu that allows it to be sold to the mass market.
Those are mutually exclusive.
That doesn't increase fps and depending on how it's implemented can decrease it.
yurinka
Member
Sounds realistic. But considering we had a huge inflation in recent years that it's supposed to continue growing fast, I'd say $699 for the base console is also possible. Specially it will be the only proper home console for the next gen, since MS pretty likely will have a consolized PC instead manufactured by Asus or some other similar 3rd party consolized PCs manufacturer.This is my ballpark prediciton for the moment (see below)
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
It's already confirmed that the PS6 is Zen 6 with UDNA (RDNA5). Kinda like the Switch 2 hardware was confirmed in 2021. The timing lines up too, Zen 7 won't launch till 2028 and even if does Zen 3 launched in 2020 yet Sony used the older Zen 2 for the PS5 anyway. Zen 6 makes sense even if it's a 2028 release.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
It all depends on the type of game Sony wants to make. Trying to predict the hardware without a next-gen tech demo to help is very difficult. You know, they haven't even delivered visuals like The Matrix, and Nintendo's cartoon games are consumed on par with realistic games. People aren't connecting technology to games. Therefore, 24GB is possible, more than 32GB why increase technology if people pay $80 for games of much lower technology.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
This GPU has nice numbers, which RTX can I compare it to? 5090, 5080 ?This is my ballpark prediciton for the moment (see below)
Felessan
Member
There is already texture compression - AMD has ASTC and Sony bought Oodle for ps4/ps5
Boss Mog
Member
You're clearly not engaging me in good faith. Why are you talking to me about sales when I'm talking about quality? On top of sequels to popular franchises (Killzone, Infamous, Uncharted, TLoU), PS4 saw Sony launch several new quality IPs: Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon, God of War (not a new IP but a complete reinvention of an existing IP), Astro Bot (on PSVR). What major new IPs has Sony launched on PS5? None. Have the sequels they released so far been better than the originals? Not really according to most gamers. Spider-man 2 was especially a huge letdown compared to the first game. So to sum it up there's been no new IPs this gen, fewer major first party releases and the sequels that did come out were arguably worse than the originals. And I full expect Yotei to be worse than Tsushima.
Buddy you can IP check me I have no Alts. I simply don't live on Gaf like you do.
Microsoft is crap at the moment and so is Sony. However the disparity between the two here is comical.
Now go touch grass my boy. Do some research on that.
kazuyamishima
Member
There have been a few like Returnal.
But out of the three manufacturers, has any of them released any notable Big IP in the last 5-7 years?