Soul Calibur remake on DS?
- Thread starter TheTurtleTitan
- Start date
One thing I find funny about the NDS haters, is just because the launch game is Super Mario 64, they assume the power of the system is N64 graphics. The game looks damn good in motion, and screenshots I have seen for Madden and pretty much all the other games don't do the system justice at all. I'm not a PSP basher, I'm enjoying that handheld very much as well, loading times are a HUGE factor to me more, and I dont understand why other people over look this.
But the point is the NDS CAN handle Soul Calibur very well. Its not going to be as polished as the Dreamcast's version. But I have no doubts in my mind this system is not capable of it.
But the point is the NDS CAN handle Soul Calibur very well. Its not going to be as polished as the Dreamcast's version. But I have no doubts in my mind this system is not capable of it.
Granted I'm not saying its the most powerful handheld system. But being in between the PS1 and the DC, with great sound quality, no loading times, and not having a devoloper really take advantage of the software yet. There is much more potential I believe in the NDS.
The PSP, like I said in the past, needs their developers to make loading times as minimal as possible, and come out with great games. So far the only advantage to the PSP I have seen in terms of games is sports, somthing that Nintendo's handheld has always been lacking. Other than that both look bleak in terms of games and needs more updates, and information on when the after launch swarm of games should be arriving.
The PSP, like I said in the past, needs their developers to make loading times as minimal as possible, and come out with great games. So far the only advantage to the PSP I have seen in terms of games is sports, somthing that Nintendo's handheld has always been lacking. Other than that both look bleak in terms of games and needs more updates, and information on when the after launch swarm of games should be arriving.
I'm starting to think that some folks don't even try to read posts; rather, they skim through them, looking for "hot points" to rebut.
I'm sorry guys, but I never said that the DS marketshare dwarfs that of the PSP... I said that if the DS marketshare dwarfs that of the PSP, it wouldn't matter if the PSP was more powerful. I was just trying to say that publishers don't really care which system is the most powerful or most "capable" of presenting a game to the world -- they just care about which system(s) bring them profit when they publish. The DS being underpowered would not stop Namco from a port of any game in their library.
Yes, the Neo Geo cost loads more than the SNES or Genesis, but it still serves to prove my point, which is that system power is not the point which determines a game's publication. The Neo Geo failed to achieve any marketshare worth mentioning, which meant that it received few games. If the DS dwarfs the PSP in sales (or if the PSP dwarfs the DS in sales), then I can see Namco taking that into careful consideration when choosing a platform for game development.
I'm sorry guys, but I never said that the DS marketshare dwarfs that of the PSP... I said that if the DS marketshare dwarfs that of the PSP, it wouldn't matter if the PSP was more powerful. I was just trying to say that publishers don't really care which system is the most powerful or most "capable" of presenting a game to the world -- they just care about which system(s) bring them profit when they publish. The DS being underpowered would not stop Namco from a port of any game in their library.
Yes, the Neo Geo cost loads more than the SNES or Genesis, but it still serves to prove my point, which is that system power is not the point which determines a game's publication. The Neo Geo failed to achieve any marketshare worth mentioning, which meant that it received few games. If the DS dwarfs the PSP in sales (or if the PSP dwarfs the DS in sales), then I can see Namco taking that into careful consideration when choosing a platform for game development.
dark10x said:
ourumov said:
Lyte Edge said:The DS markerhare "dwarfs" the PSP? The PSP has been out in Japan for less than a month. Give it time. If you think that the PSP isn't going to reach huge numbers you're kidding youself.
Except that the difference here is that the SNES and Genesis games were priced at $50-$60, where as Neo-Geo carts went for $200+ back then.
Currently, the PSP sells for a little under $200, and the $DS is $150. That's not a huge difference in price. DS games go for $30-$40 each. PSP games in Japan are around $50 each and should cost around $40 each when released here. That's also not a huge difference.
I don't have a system bias.
Agent X said:
sonic4ever said:
DavidDayton:
Of course not, they just see "DS" "Marketshare" "dwarfs" "PSP" then they initiate damage control mode.
BTW, I agree with your point and I was thinking the same thing. We have enough historical precedent to state that IF the DS ends up selling substantially more than the PSP it certainly won't matter (from the pov of publishers) that the latter is more powerful.
Of course not, they just see "DS" "Marketshare" "dwarfs" "PSP" then they initiate damage control mode.
BTW, I agree with your point and I was thinking the same thing. We have enough historical precedent to state that IF the DS ends up selling substantially more than the PSP it certainly won't matter (from the pov of publishers) that the latter is more powerful.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
ourumov said:
:lol :lol
Diffense said:DavidDayton:
Of course not, they just see "DS" "Marketshare" "dwarfs" "PSP" then they initiate damage control mode.
BTW, I agree with your point and I was thinking the same thing. We have enough historical precedent to state that IF the DS ends up selling substantially more than the PSP it certainly won't matter (from the pov of publishers) that the latter is more powerful.
At this point, comparing the two is akin to comparing the DC to the PS2 in June of 2000. Once the PSP has (1) launched in the US and (2) is not limited by production constraints, we'll see how things shake out.
jarrod said:WEll, excpet that DS and PSP are rather even for software support. How many EA or Square games did Dreamcast get?
Also worth noting that the DC was the successor of the Saturn, pretty much the biggest loser in the PSX/Saturn/N64 battle. The DS is a step up from the GBA, the king of every previous portable war. This will be an interesting fight to say the least.
Buffy4ever
Banned
AniHawk said:
no offense was taken.
heavy liquid
Member
I've never played the arcade version of Soul Calibur. Does anyone have any screen comparisons with the Arcade vs Dreamcast versions?
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
^^^ Check the first page ^^^
heavy liquid
Member
Doh! Thank you.
The DS is somewhere between a PSX and N64, right? I don't see why it couldn't pull this off. Even if they had to sacrifice some of the alread sparse bgs, it wouldn't hurt things too much. Should look better than the arcade version, as noted. Still, given the running joke that is RRDS, I'm not holding my breath on this looking any less than ass. And God knows why they'd even bother. Meh, good for the DS though. PEACE.
In some ways, in others it bests both platforms. Overall, it's a better rounded machine than N64, PS1 or Saturn. Roughly...Pimpwerx said:
3D Rendering
PS1 > DS > N64 > Saturn
3D Effects
N64 > DS > PS1 > Saturn
2D Graphics
Saturn > DS > PS1 > N64
RAM
DS > Saturn > PS1 > N64
Audio
Saturn > PS1 > DS > N64
Ease of Development/System Balance
DS > PS1 > N64 > Saturn
Well, I was dealing with numbers... though the old specs for last gen consoles are misleading. Sony stated 360k polygons per second and Sega stated 200k quads per second... but those are peak figures that neither platform ever came close to. For example, Tekken 3 (a late term, visually advanced PS1 game) only moved about 85k pps. Nintendo's given far more realistic, attainable specs for N64 (100k pps) and DS (120k pps). I suspect DS may actually best PS1 in raw polycounts too.btrboyev said:
I am going purely off specs actually. The Saturn's Yamaha sound chip was higher clocked and more flexible than PS1's (it was even used in some games like Shining Force III for extra visual processses) and it had more hardware sound channels (32 to 24 iirc). In reality, the specs didn't make much difference, but then again the DS' ARM7 could probably handle the audio in any PS1/Saturn game too. If we're looking at actual real world performance it's probably more like Saturn = PS1 = DS > N64 for audio.Miburou said:
Yep, the original was very PS specific and used alpha transparencies (which Saturn didn't support). The port was also outsourced to a different team (KCEN).SantaCruZer said:
soundwave05
Member
Didn't the N64 have liked 8MB of RAM after the Expansion Pak upgrade?
I just can't see Star Wars: Rogue Squadron or Turok 2 running on the Playstation or Saturn.
I just can't see Star Wars: Rogue Squadron or Turok 2 running on the Playstation or Saturn.
Castlevania SOTN doesn't have a horrible frame rate. It DOES, however, suffer from bad slowdown at certain points during the game, and transparancy effects like Alucard in mist form look horrible.
I'm sure if the KCEN team had taken the time to optimize SOTN, it would have ended up a better game than the PSX version, especially if they gave Maria and Richter actual storylines and added more areas.
The Neo-Geo was always meant to be a specialized system targetted at a specific audience, wanting the arcade experience at home, right from the start. The reason it doesn't work to compare to the Neo-Geo/SNES and Genesis PSP/DS is due to the HUGE difference in pricing of software titles, distribution in stores, advertising, etc.
Had the Neo-Geo been exactly the same hardware with prices in the $50-$60 price range for games, things could have been very different and they might have actually gotten third parties to jump on. But PSP systems don't cost twice as much as DS systems, and the games certainly don't cost $200+, so it doesn't work.
In the Neo-Geo's case, developers knew there was no way they'd get enough profit out of making software for the system, as its incredibly high prices meant an incredibly small userbase. I realize the point you are making about system power, but with the PSP and DS, it's a completely different story. There's no way that the PSP is going to achieve a small marketshare with its pricing and game line-up.
I'm sure if the KCEN team had taken the time to optimize SOTN, it would have ended up a better game than the PSX version, especially if they gave Maria and Richter actual storylines and added more areas.
DavidDayton said:
The Neo-Geo was always meant to be a specialized system targetted at a specific audience, wanting the arcade experience at home, right from the start. The reason it doesn't work to compare to the Neo-Geo/SNES and Genesis PSP/DS is due to the HUGE difference in pricing of software titles, distribution in stores, advertising, etc.
Had the Neo-Geo been exactly the same hardware with prices in the $50-$60 price range for games, things could have been very different and they might have actually gotten third parties to jump on. But PSP systems don't cost twice as much as DS systems, and the games certainly don't cost $200+, so it doesn't work.
In the Neo-Geo's case, developers knew there was no way they'd get enough profit out of making software for the system, as its incredibly high prices meant an incredibly small userbase. I realize the point you are making about system power, but with the PSP and DS, it's a completely different story. There's no way that the PSP is going to achieve a small marketshare with its pricing and game line-up.
Okay... did a little research for RAM, seems I was slightly off...soundwave05 said:
Nintendo 64
-4.5 MB Unified RAM (Rambus DRAM)
-4 MB RAM Expansion
Sega Saturn
-2 MB Main RAM
-1.54 MB Video RAM
-540 KB Audio RAM
-540 KB CD Buffer
-256 KB (x2) Dual Frame Buffers
-512 KB Texture Cache
-1 MB RAM Expansion (SNK)
-4 MB RAM Expansion (Capcom)
PlayStation
-2 MB Main RAM
-1 MB Video RAM
-512 KB Audio RAM
-256 KB CD Buffer
-4 KB Instruction Cache
-1 KB Data Cache
Nintendo DS
-4 MB Main RAM
-656 KB Video RAM
-32 KB Shared (16 KB x2) ARM9/ARM7 RAM
-64 KB ARM7 Internal Intruction RAM
-8 KB Instruction Cache
-4 KB Data Cache
Agent X
Member
DavidDayton said:
I'm not sure you really read my post, either. After all, you omitted the final line that I wrote:
Agent X said:
Key words here are "sole determining factor."
DavidDayton said:
Sure, all of them want to make profit. That doesn't mean that they should develop only for the single most popular system, and ignore other systems.
DavidDayton said:
On the contrary, it would stop them if it meant that they'd be compromising the creative vision that the designers intended.
As I said above, developers don't automatically gravitate towards the system with the largest user base, solely because it has a large user base. There have been cases where developers deliberately chose not to bring a game to a popular platform, because the developers felt that particular hardware wasn't going to do proper justice to the game as they envisioned it. They didn't want to release a half-baked product, because they risk ruining the reputation of the game series, or even the developer or publisher as a whole.
Also, another point I made in my earlier post (which again you conveniently snipped) is that there are several people here who clearly feel that the PSP would be a better fit for Soul Calibur than the DS, and therefore would like to see it on that system. They're not advocating that Namco kill development of the DS version, just petitioning that another version also be produced for the PSP alongside it.
DavidDayton said:
True, it's not the sole determining factor...but neither is system popularity, which was my point. Both of those are factors, and there may be others as well.
On the other hand, I'm sure that system power came into play when deciding why many of the games that were made for SNES and Genesis came out on those particular systems, and not the NES which was more popular than either of them and was also marketed alongside those systems for several years.
Shogmaster
Member
jarrod said:
btrboyev said:
I thought we determined in that thread when the rumor first surfaced that PS1 in reality only could render around 120,000 triangles per second. This was months ago IIRC.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
AFAIK, Tekken 3's character models were reduced from 1,500 polys (arcade) to 1,000 (home version), so it's more like 120,000 pps + backgrounds. A little over 2,000 polys per frame @ 60fps sounds about right for Tekken 3.jarrod said:
Using your figure, Tekken 3' character models would be made out of 500 polygons each, which would be comparable to Lara Croft's model in the TR games.
On-topic:
You can have a nice looking Soul Calibur port running on the DS (arcade version, not DC), image resolution aside. It's not like the arcade board is state of the art tech; it's just a faster PSone with more memory, which sits well with DS' 3D capabilities. Of course, if you're expecting something like the home versions you'll end up highly disappointed. If you're looking for that, wait for the more than probable SC PSP.
Anyway, we should wait for someone to confirm this news. Until then, all this speculation is pointless.
It was? 120k sounds a bit low actually? :/Shogmaster said:
I wonder what Saturn's "real" figure was then (200k quads quoted)? And is 100k for N64 realistic?
My figure comes from an emulator actually running PSX Tekken 3, counting each polygon. The game fluctuated from 80-90k pps in actual gameplay iirc.Aizu_Itsuko said:
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
That helps.jarrod said:
I acknowledge that most Psone titles pushed less than 100,000 pps in actual gameplay, but it still seems a little on the low side for this title. We need to know how the emulator actually counts those polygons to be sure, but if the number is correct, then most titles released that gen (PSone, N64, Saturn) were pushing even less.
Yeah, I was surprised too. Last gen games were pushing far less polygons than I expected, if DS can do 120k in real world situations (4M verticies), it shouldn't have any problem with any last gen ports. Even high end arcade hardware like Model 2 only boasts 900k verticies iirc.Aizu_Itsuko said:
To expand on the emu question, I didn't do the tests myself, someone else on the board did. I think it might've been jett and I remember him providing screens for proof. I'd be curious to see what other high end PS1/Saturn/N64 games pushed.
heavy liquid
Member
When you shrink those screen captures of the arcade version of Soul Calibur down to the size of the DS screen(s), it looks much better. Hopefully Namco will get it looking even a bit better...
heavy liquid said:When you shrink those screen captures of the arcade version of Soul Calibur down to the size of the DS screen(s), it looks much better. Hopefully Namco will get it looking even a bit better...
This is definitely possible on the DS. It's possible to enhance the visuals a bit too, actually.
Shogmaster
Member
jarrod said:
Since Tekken 3 is a late PSX game by Namco doing only 85K, 120K max sounds about right, no?
I think the Saturn probably only managed around 50~75K Quads.
heavy liquid said:When you shrink those screen captures of the arcade version of Soul Calibur down to the size of the DS screen(s), it looks much better. Hopefully Namco will get it looking even a bit better...
Careful there. You took arcade images running around 512x400 and shrunk that down. Your example is downsampled from too high of a res source. on DS's 256x192 screen, it will look FAR less detailed. Far far less.
Yeah, it sounds about right... I was just surprised how low everything was. What about N64 is 100k realistic, or inflated like Sony/Sega's numbers? I'm guessing the 120k figure for DS is realistic though, given the 4M verticies figure along with it (and Nintendo's move to "real world" specs after hyping N64).Shogmaster said: