Raitosaito
Member
You and I must have been to very very different high schools if Power Rangers is realistic portrayal compared to Spider-Man.
Spider-Man: Homecoming |OT| MCU's Sweet 16 - SPOILERS
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You and I must have been to very very different high schools if Power Rangers is realistic portrayal compared to Spider-Man.
Power Rangers is a goofy melodrama filled with stereotypes. It's a fun movie but nah.
Bobo Dakes
Member
I was crediting it for actually developing the characters instead of making them an array of recurring jokes. I didn't even use the word realistic. Neither of these movies reflect my high school experience.
Outside of Betty Grant with that other kid and Hannibal, I really didn't care for too many scenes in the high school.
Like that detention scene really got to me. She made her joke and I'm like "you can't fucking crash detention because you want to, you're a fucking stalker" but yeah, all that just to make a joke about drawing sad people which was apparently funny enough to get everyone to forget how the entire setup for that joke didn't make any goddamn sense. So yeah, NOW I'll say Power Rangers was more realistic in that sense.
Also, remind me what their PG-13 version of fuck, marry, kill was ...
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Actually it was a hint to Michelle's character which pays off at the end of the movie. She had earlier claimed she wasn't obsessing over Peter when she was obviously sitting in detention just to be around him/keep him company.
Eh? They just didn't say fuck.
markofhavoc
Member
F, Marry, Kill.
Raitosaito
Member
I think it's hard for me to accept your criticism because my school reflected homecoming pretty well if you're part of a club. And myself having like 2-3 friends play off well with how Peter himself view those around him, so in no way can I knock it for being what it was.
If one scene that was meant for be character development in a "cheesy" movie way gets inserted here are there, doesn't take away from the film. You can pull scenes like that from any movie if you look hard enough.
Bobo Dakes
Member
They didn't interact once in that scene and she was literally drawing a picture of Hannibal.
I mean, take from it what you want, but when you throw in the word "obviously" next to something I disagree with, Imma take that as a challenge.
Nah
Spiderman was better than Power Rangers in pretty much every way you can think of, including a more realistic portrayal of high schoolers and better humour.
Power Rangers was a huge waste of time that I'll never get back. On the other hand, I can't wait to get my hands on the Blu Ray for Spiderman and rewatch it.
Bobo Dakes
Member
That "one scene" was just me specifying much larger issues I listed on the previous page.
I'll quote them here.
You do you bruh.
Setting aside you don't like the joke (personally I don't think it's supposed to be funny, just amusing), that scene play out her being a weirdo --- and sorta/maybe hinting that she secretly has a crush on Peter. How is that too much for you.
Bobo Dakes
Member
On it's own, it's fine. It was just something that was ALREADY bothering me in a lot of the high school scenes, so when we got to that joke, I was just finally like "okay, this movie needs to stop doing this".
Are you seriously comparing an ensemble film like Power Rangers to a two hander like Spider-man Homecoming? Power Rangers had 5 protagonists and they only developed their characters. Did we know any thing about Billy's bully,Jason's friend who milked a bull ,Kimberly's revenge porn friends or really any person at the high school? Nah because outside of the protagonist the movies didn't care about it's secondary/tertiary characters. Angel Grove could have exploded and if our heroes made it out alive the audience wouldn't care.
Now compare that to HC where Peter and Vulture are our main characters that we're developing yet we still manage to like and care about the secondary characters.
Power Rangers is a fun movie but no one should be taking screen play advice from it.
Twig and Berries
Member
I get the impression that a lot of people who are more down on the MCU nowadays while having enjoyed it previously are burnt out by what have now become MCU tropes. Tropes aren't universally bad just for being tropes, most of our entertainment is a hodgepodge of different established tropes, but the sheer number of these movies have made people start looking out for certain tropes like the humor that would be fine in another unrelated movie but are simply more noticeable, and subsequently annoying, in the context of the MCU.
I'm not discrediting your opinion at all, I've just started to wonder if this is how MCU burnout is manifesting. Most of your complaints are either relatively benign or wouldn't have stood out as much in an unrelated franchise but are obviously more apparent here for quite a few people.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Can't wait to get the blu-ray and watch it again, really loved this movie. Holland was great as Peter and it was just a fun movie, even if it wasn't as big scale as some of the other MCU movies, but it didn't need to be as it did such a great job with the characters.
I'm a big comic book / Marvel fan though, so I love all the MCU movies, no burn out here, I'll keep watching them, as long as they keep making them, can't wait for Infinity War, it's gonna be epic.
I'm a big comic book / Marvel fan though, so I love all the MCU movies, no burn out here, I'll keep watching them, as long as they keep making them, can't wait for Infinity War, it's gonna be epic.
Watched this and Guardians 2 last night and I can't help but agree wholeheartedly with this post here
I never found a reason to care for any of the characters in the movie, ever, at all. I've totally forgotten what happened in civil war other than Iron man hitting on his aunt and Peter getting noticed enough to be recruited. Then he just...sorta gets tossed to the wayside but still cared for? Like he goes to the decathlon and gets a call from Happy about why he's leaving, but it's been months since he was needed so why not let him live his life? Does he get called every single time he would have to leave new york if he actually gave a shit about school?
Did they do his origin story but like in 60 seconds in civil war? Where's uncle ben or his parents? The spider gave him sticky properties and super strength and that's it? How'd he come up with the suit and name? Why exactly is he getting bullied by the character we're supposed to hate then feel cathartic because his dads car got ruined? Why does peter only have 1 friend, who's stupid for the movie just so we can create conflict(saying peter knows spider-man and wants to reveal the secret to everyone). What's with this thing where we don't name the villain or say his name very rarely so we have to say Spider-Man vs. Villain up until the very end of the movie? What's the point of the existence of MJ AT ALL? Is every single character in this movie comic relief aside from Iron Man?? Are there any characters in this movie? I really feel like Spider-Man was completely shoehorned in and we didnt need to have him at all.
I watched Guardians 2 right after and enjoyed that a lot more, but every line of dialogue being a heart to heart serious moment spliced with a joke, and I do mean every single line of dialogue, was incredibly strange and felt like the movie had a jokes per minute quota it had to hit.
Dr. Strange last year was ok, my only issue they didn't develop Strange at all so he seems like a bratty Tony Stark 2.0. The MCU seems to just be rushing through everything trying to get to the flagpole movies like Ragnorak and such.
I never found a reason to care for any of the characters in the movie, ever, at all. I've totally forgotten what happened in civil war other than Iron man hitting on his aunt and Peter getting noticed enough to be recruited. Then he just...sorta gets tossed to the wayside but still cared for? Like he goes to the decathlon and gets a call from Happy about why he's leaving, but it's been months since he was needed so why not let him live his life? Does he get called every single time he would have to leave new york if he actually gave a shit about school?
Did they do his origin story but like in 60 seconds in civil war? Where's uncle ben or his parents? The spider gave him sticky properties and super strength and that's it? How'd he come up with the suit and name? Why exactly is he getting bullied by the character we're supposed to hate then feel cathartic because his dads car got ruined? Why does peter only have 1 friend, who's stupid for the movie just so we can create conflict(saying peter knows spider-man and wants to reveal the secret to everyone). What's with this thing where we don't name the villain or say his name very rarely so we have to say Spider-Man vs. Villain up until the very end of the movie? What's the point of the existence of MJ AT ALL? Is every single character in this movie comic relief aside from Iron Man?? Are there any characters in this movie? I really feel like Spider-Man was completely shoehorned in and we didnt need to have him at all.
I watched Guardians 2 right after and enjoyed that a lot more, but every line of dialogue being a heart to heart serious moment spliced with a joke, and I do mean every single line of dialogue, was incredibly strange and felt like the movie had a jokes per minute quota it had to hit.
Dr. Strange last year was ok, my only issue they didn't develop Strange at all so he seems like a bratty Tony Stark 2.0. The MCU seems to just be rushing through everything trying to get to the flagpole movies like Ragnorak and such.
PingPongvonLaserstein
Member
You honestly missed any of that? If I never have to watch another major superhero origin story, it'll be too soon, especially for a character like Spider-Man.
Yes, he's Spider-Man. The majority of the developed world knows his origin story by heart. I'm well aware of who he is and why he is, so please tell me something new.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's still kind of funny how Sony / Marvel thought Spider-Man wanting to be an Avenger was equivalent to Ben's death. Talk about not understanding dramatic weight.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Why does anyone get bullied? Peter is poor and a dumpster diver. Flash is rich. Here's my problem. I don't mind that some people don't like the movie. I didn't care for Guardians 2 much. It's whatever. Y'all are complaining about things because the movie doesn't stop to say "HEY, this is why this is happening!" And sometimes it does...
They alluded to the tragedy with Uncle Ben. We all know his deal. Like when Peter almost cried because he doesn't want Aunt May to know "after everything she's been through..."
Do we really need a scene for his name origin? Someone on YouTube named him and it stuck. There you go. His suit is shitty and obviously homemade. You want the villain to be named? Why. They played around with that a little with The Shocker, but he was a jackass. That's kinda the point. Vulture ENTIRE deal in the movie is taking parts (like a real vulture) and not being seen. If your intention is to not draw attention to yourself, why would you name yourself anything? You don't plan on anyone knowing what's going on lol.
They alluded to the tragedy with Uncle Ben. We all know his deal. Like when Peter almost cried because he doesn't want Aunt May to know "after everything she's been through..."
Do we really need a scene for his name origin? Someone on YouTube named him and it stuck. There you go. His suit is shitty and obviously homemade. You want the villain to be named? Why. They played around with that a little with The Shocker, but he was a jackass. That's kinda the point. Vulture ENTIRE deal in the movie is taking parts (like a real vulture) and not being seen. If your intention is to not draw attention to yourself, why would you name yourself anything? You don't plan on anyone knowing what's going on lol.
So you wanted another Uncle Ben story beat? How trite.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
He's literally about to start telling the origin story in Civil War and Tony cut him off because no one needs to hear that shit again.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
see, i think some folks don't understand what i am typing and just go, "YOU WANT UNCLE BEN?!?!" without actually understanding equivalence. like, saying something is not equal to another doesn't mean the person ONLY WANTS the another.
I don't even feel like the film was trying to make the same emotional equivalence to those two scenarios, though. They are simply showing Parker growing from wanting to be an Avenger so badly that he is willing to put lives in danger, to walking away from the opportunity through self realization.
The film is showing character growth.
Who has the time and money for that?
Ain't nobody got time for that
Pai Pai Master
Banned
This, they're not comparing it to the Uncle Ben arc. It happened. Peter learned from it and moved past it. But he still has room to grow and that's the point of the arc in Homecoming.
The movie is about Peter learning to crawl before he can be the Spider-Man that swings from skyscrapers and takes on massive threats like The Sinister Six.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You still need that dramatic weight to anchor the film to better understand Peter's motivations and actions. All we know is Peter does ALL of what he does because he wants to be an Avenger, it's not a compelling reason so it feels meatless. It can be a compelling reason but the content provided doesn't hold it up well.
You can have character growth and compelling / well executed reasons for the growth. This is why people hold SM2 to such high esteem, and that movie is not even about Uncle Ben.
Bobo Dakes
Member
How was this better though. It felt weird at times that they danced around not mentioning him.
But I'm baffled as to how Civil War did a better job of establishing his motivation in one scene than this did in 2 hours.
Civil War - I wanna do the right thing, help the little guy, if I have the ability to stop bad things from happening, I should do that. - GREAT
Homecoming - I wanna join the Avengers, literally nothing else matters. Gotta go well out of my way to look for trouble even if it kills me.
I don't understand that step backwards. At best, the Avengers thing should've been a distraction. But watching this movie, you'd think that bedroom scene never happened.
So
Even though in Civil War, Peter literally says he's fighting crime because he has these powers now and it'd be wrong of him to do nothing, it'd be wrong to suddenly be a GOAT in sports, because when he didn't use them for good his uncle died, that doesn't mean anything?
Now for people who didn't see CW, then sure maybe you don't have that lead in.
People here had that lead in.
He wants to join the Avengers because after CW he feels like it'll be what Ben wanted from him, it'll give him meaning, and he grows from being selfish and forgetting his friends/family, to loving being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man
Even though in Civil War, Peter literally says he's fighting crime because he has these powers now and it'd be wrong of him to do nothing, it'd be wrong to suddenly be a GOAT in sports, because when he didn't use them for good his uncle died, that doesn't mean anything?
Now for people who didn't see CW, then sure maybe you don't have that lead in.
People here had that lead in.
He wants to join the Avengers because after CW he feels like it'll be what Ben wanted from him, it'll give him meaning, and he grows from being selfish and forgetting his friends/family, to loving being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Peter didn't magically lose his motivation in-between movies. He is still that person that really wants to use his powers to help people. Yes he gets distracted and gets in over his head because his idol Tony Stark lies to him and dangles a team membership in his face after using him to fight in his personal grudgematch.
But Peter learns from that by the end of the movie and that's his arc.
But Peter learns from that by the end of the movie and that's his arc.
Love Spider-Man: Homecoming and it's easily the best Spider-Man film of all time, with the best take on Spider-Man in live action. It makes me feel old, but that's ok. I was a 21 years old when Raimi's Spider-Man was released. Those first two films will have always a special place in my heart, but what Marvel Studios is doing with the character now excites me to no end. Can't wait to see what the future holds.
BronsonLee
Member
Tony Stark murdered Uncle Ben
He was really drunk
Bobo Dakes
Member
It was too obvious a lesson that I didn't have the patience to wait for him to learn. The second he used that DC trip as an excuse to track the weapons, I was kind of done with him. "Yeah ... I'll just do this real quick and I'll TOTALLY be back in time for the competition".
I just sighed.
That honestly did not come across to me. What I got was a tryhard that kept hurting himself and those around him. Until the end it never felt like it HAD to be him to save the day. And when it finally was, we just got a weird mesh of an action scene. It was funny when he got cut off in Civil War because that movie was busy enough, but it felt like it was missing here.
As far as I'm concerned, we DON'T need to see Uncle Ben die again, that would be super redundant, but to not mention it at all, it's like REALLY? Who does that help? Let's get into this family dynamic just a bit.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
He does mention it. They just didn't need to beat the audience over the head with it.
Why the hell do you think Aunt May is on edge so much when he stops staying in touch?
markofhavoc
Member
I'm sure you can, when I had detention no one cared about anything other then making sure you are in the room. I read the whole series of preacher in Saturday school detention and no one cared. You could literally do anything as long as your in a room being quiet
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
Saw the movie today I enjoyed it
Bobo Dakes
Member
That's weak.
"With everything that's happened" is his mention. Yeah, that said A LOT. A name isn't "beating us over the head" with anything. A scene isn't beating us over with anything.
They removed an important aspect of the character and replaced it with nothing nearly as satisfying, that's my complaint. And going "well, they already know" is a cop out justification because this movie needed to stand on it's own more than it did. I didn't need flashback, I didn't need a summary events, but the quickest conversation would've gone a long way. "Ever since we lost Ben ..." done.
Twig and Berries
Member
I'd be annoyed by the complaints over a lack of exposition explaining Uncle Ben's death but let's be honest, it pales in comparison to the criticism we'd have seen had they actually done yet another retread of that story.
So ok, some people really missed that part of the character. Sucks for them since most people, myself included, didn't seem to care it was gone.
So ok, some people really missed that part of the character. Sucks for them since most people, myself included, didn't seem to care it was gone.
Hope they can stand Thor Ragnarok. Because looking at Taika's past films, you can bet there's going to be an awkward speech and dancing moments where everyone going "uhhhh".
Pai Pai Master
Banned
if Goldblum doesn't get a dance routine in that movie i'll riot
One odd thing I think the MCU does very well, and which no other Cinematic Universes or big franchises have achieved, is to retroactively make their weak movies stronger with sequels. Each movie really does feet like a comicbook story arc: maybe you're lukewarm on it, but you learn a little about the characters, and when you learn a little more, you can go back and appreciate older stories in context.
I know just about everyone loves GotG, but I wasn't especially turned on by it. Not characters I follow, and the movie didn't really grab me. But I really enjoyed the sequel, and appreciated the original much more on rewatch. I find the same to be true with movies like Thor 2. I think any subsequent Spider-Man movies will not only be stronger than Homecoming, but will turn it into a Chapter One in a way that minimises it's flaws and emphasises it's strengths.
Why do you keep asking this lol
You're asking the movie to treat the audience like idiots. We know they lost Ben, you know they lost Ben. The subtext is there. The allusions are there. We don't need to retread the storyline. His absence and loss is already felt both in the characters and for the audience. His death is a driving force behind the actions of Peter and May. Hell, Neds actions are somewhat tinted by the death of Ben. To me that's a strong storybeat.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I feel like this is demonstrated quite a bit with The First Avenger. I think Cap reached a turning point with mainstream appeal after Winter Soldier, and I know a lot of people who weren't too hot on First Avenger, but specifically like it more now because subsequent movies gave more depth to both Cap and Bucky and their relationship.
The movie also goes very hard at trying to be a positive, lighthearted adventure. Yeah there are some tense moments but overall it's a movie about a kid just really enjoying being a superhero. Going too deep into the Uncle Ben backstory would have messed with the tone quite a bit.