Spider-Man: Homecoming |OT| MCU's Sweet 16 - SPOILERS

Speaking of Norman, when Adrian was brandishing the knife while Peter was waiting for Liz to get ready at her house, did anyone immediately think of this scene?

thanksgiving-fights-spiderman-kornhaber-615.jpg


Both scenes felt very similar

Keaton's good but he's not Willem Dafoe yelling at himself in the mirror good.
 
When he goes to the prom and walks back out, we don't really know WHY. Sure, it makes sense to want to do good things, but why risk his life and the life of his loved ones so much?
Really? You don't know why he rushed out of the dance and chose to sacrifice his dream date to stop a villain instead?

We know with great power comes great responsibility. We've heard it in five movies already. Rather than monolgue it to us again, this movie internalizes it. Show, don't tell. I liked the change of pace.
 
I don't mind them being more similar, Ultimate did something like that, but I like the dynamic of her being more social and him more awkward and that seems to be missing here.

I think here she seems more assertive than him so that dynamic might still be in play and that's good. I'm not as down on her as my sister (she hated the tomboy and anti social aspect) but I do hope she gets more out of her shell in the future to have a more similar dynamic from the original.

the 'anti-social' aspect was clear but is this MJ a tomboy? I really didn't get that sense at all (even in this modern day of gender fluidity that dismantles the term). She seemed pretty girlish to me
 
they're probably gearing to give MJ that breakfast club makeover but I hope they decide against it and keep her as is. she looked alright and her chill scrub personality was entertaining too.

if her look changes I hope the character doesn't at least.
 
What I would actually like to know: why was The Shocker waiting outside?

Uh, yeah. Considering Peter only stayed at the dance for about 30 seconds before rushing out to the backlot, Adrian wouldn't even have time to call the guy after deducing Peter's identity about a minute beforehand.

Maybe....Adrian asked Shocker to protect Liz at her dance, because he was worried the FBI might come to collect her when attempting to bring him down?
 
The thing is, it doesn't take a genius to narrow down Spider-Man's identity.

A guy that's only been in New York suddenly appears in Washington DC that overlapped with the debate team's trip down there, plus the fact that Liz told her dad that Pete was interning for Tony Stark, and that he heard Spider-Man's voice. It made sense for him to figure it out.
 
Spider sense is like kinda an integral power to the character.

And yet it was messed with in the first movie as just being super reflexes.

And same with his web shooters.

But like I said, we don't know the extent of his spider sense. Maybe it was just too fast incoming, or he was distracted. Who knows. It's not like his spider sense works for him all the time else he's never get hit.

Plus he's a newbie.
 
Speaking of Norman, when Adrian was brandishing the knife while Peter was waiting for Liz to get ready at her house, did anyone immediately think of this scene?

thanksgiving-fights-spiderman-kornhaber-615.jpg


Both scenes felt very similar
This pic reminds me of how damn good Dafoe was. I need to watch the original again.
 
The thing is, it doesn't take a genius to narrow down Spider-Man's identity.

A guy that's only been in New York suddenly appears in Washington DC that overlapped with the debate team's trip down there, plus the fact that Liz told her dad that Pete was interning for Tony Stark, and that he heard Spider-Man's voice. It made sense for him to figure it out.

It's a movie about a kid dressing in tights and swinging from webs let me have my hero with a secret identity from everyone goddammit.
 
Exactly. Can't see people protesting too much if the government doesn't want potentially deadly alien tech circulating among the public.

His crew seeemd awfully adept at inventing new technology too. How did they learn to do all that? Are they scientists?

You know there would be a large contingent who would blame any alien invasion on Obama (and technically, it actually was the government's fault in this case). The Feds came in and gave the contract to a rich industrialist and acted like dicks about it. One guy even had to shoot his mouth off. I couldn't even blame Toomes for laying him out.

Also, it was his one tech guy building everything, and he was shown tinkering at the start of the movie. Eight years later, the rest of the crew had graduated to packaging the gear for transport and selling weapons out of the back of vans.
 
the 'anti-social' aspect was clear but is this MJ a tomboy? I really didn't get that sense at all (even in this modern day of gender fluidity that dismantles the term). She seemed pretty girlish to me

In 2017 that term is definitely outdated. Which I guess is why making a "classic" MJ is not ideal and this is better.

I think if you compare her with Liz she has a less "classic feminine" look which original MJ had. I mean she was a model so her looks where always played out while here it was more subdued. Liz was more "classic pretty" than MJ. The prettiness of MJ was subdued. This is not a casting problem since Zendaya is obviously very pretty.
 
The thing is, it doesn't take a genius to narrow down Spider-Man's identity.

A guy that's only been in New York suddenly appears in Washington DC that overlapped with the debate team's trip down there, plus the fact that Liz told her dad that Pete was interning for Tony Stark, and that he heard Spider-Man's voice. It made sense for him to figure it out.

I was relieved when Adrian figured it out because Liz just seemed really dense by the end. "Whatever's going on with you... maybe you're allergic to Spider-Man because you're never around when he is... I hope you get over it."
 
Also, is all the destruction and chaos in this movie mostly a result of Peter Parker's bothersome interference?

1) The Washington Monument. Peter steals an alien grenade, leading to his best friend carrying it up to the Washington Monument which subsequently blows up the elevator, putting all their class-mates in danger.
2) The ferry. Spider-Man unwittingly springs an FBI sting operation, which as a consequence leads to the destruction of the ferry.
3) The plane. Toomes attempts to quietly steal some weapons, but because of Spider-Man's interference, the plane is brought down violently on New York City, putting countless lives at risk, where it proceeds to crash in a fiery explosion.
 
Uh, yeah. Considering Peter only stayed at the dance for about 30 seconds before rushing out to the backlot, Adrian wouldn't even have time to call the guy after deducing Peter's identity about a minute beforehand.

Maybe....Adrian asked Shocker to protect Liz at her dance, because he was worried the FBI might come to collect her when attempting to bring him down?
I mean if you analyze too far you need to question why the plane was not protected when Stark could easily send automated suits to guard it.
 
In relation to the discussion about Toomes learning Peter's secret identity, I actually really loved that as a development, if purely for the touch at the end where we find out that Toomes seems to be willfully protecting Peter's identity from Gargan and his cronies in prison. I think what really made Toomes interesting as a villain is that he seems to genuinely respect Peter, acknowledging that both of them are just average guys coming from the same humble, working class backgrounds. I think that respect deepens (if begrudgingly) when Peter saves his life at the end of their climactic fight, leading to Toomes quietly repaying a debt of gratitude to Peter by protecting his identity.

What makes Toomes stand out as a villain (and especially as a MCU villain) is that there are all these different flavours to him, both good and bad, malicious yet strangely relatable. I'm hugely grateful they kept the character alive, his inclusion into the inevitable Sinister Six group that'll surface in future installments should prove interesting, especially given his strange new loyalty to Peter and how that might cause some degree of conflict for him later down the line.

Really? I read this as him wanting to get out of jail so he can take down Pete himself.
 
Also, Jon Watts definitely deserves credit for getting this film right. It's weird how he's rarely talked about. Hopefuly Marvel sign him on for the sequel.
 
3) The plane. Toomes attempts to quietly steal some weapons, but because of Spider-Man's interference, the plane is brought down violently on New York City, putting countless lives at risk, where it proceeds to explode in a fiery explosion.

With this one, you could at least argue that more lives are going to be put at risk if criminals get their hands on Stark - and Asgardian - tech.
 
Also, Jon Watts definitely deserves credit for getting this film right. It's weird how he's rarely talked about. Hopefuly Marvel sign him on for the sequel.

I hope he gets a little more creative with the action scenes but I really want to see him do Spidey again.
 
they're probably gearing to give MJ that breakfast club makeover but I hope they decide against it and keep her as is. she looked alright and her chill scrub personality was entertaining too.

if her look changes I hope the character doesn't at least.

I would like the same character but without the more nerdy look. The "I'm pretty and I know it" aspect should be there.

But I hope they don't do a Breakfast Club thing and a more natural evolution.
 
Really? I read this as him wanting to get out of jail so he can take down Pete himself.

That's definitely another legitimate take on what happened. I think the scene itself was somewhat ambiguous in regards to what Adrian's motivations were, that was just the read I was getting from the situation. I'd be really interested to hear what other people got from that scene.
 
That's definitely another legitimate take on what happened. I think the scene itself was somewhat ambiguous in regards to what Adrian's motivations were, that was just the read I was getting from the situation. I'd be really interested to hear what other people got from that scene.

I thought he was trying to avoid anyone getting back to his daughter. It didn't hit me until this morning that Liz moved not because her dad didn't want the media circus around them but because he wanted her as far away from Peter as possible.
 
I mean if you analyze too far you need to question why the plane was not protected when Stark could easily send automated suits to guard it.

Because that would attract far too much attention to the plane. It was supposed to be a secret delivery, hence why the plane was going into stealth mode.
 
I think, considering the lengths the film went to make Adrian seem sympathetic, and the way his demeanour changes after Peter drags him away from his damaged suit, it's just Adrian doing Peter a solid.

But he'll probably be back as part of the Sinister Six anyway.
 
Martin Starr is low-key one of the best characters in the movie.

"You don't just get to be the 'welcome back' guy--"
"Welcome back, Peter!"
 
I think, considering the lengths the film went to make Adrian seem sympathetic, and the way his demeanour changes after Peter drags him away from his damaged suit, it's just Adrian doing Peter a solid.
Yeah, that's the way I see it too. Also, I don't believe he did anything "too bad" to deserve to probably be killed by the other criminals. Sure, Peter made him go to jail, but it's not like he wasn't aware that what he was doing wasn't right in the first place.
 
Really? I read this as him wanting to get out of jail so he can take down Pete himself.

Pretty much, "If I knew who he was...", which he does, "he would already be dead". It could be 50/50, he did save Liz's and his own life, but he destroyed his family and sent him to jail, he will probably want to deal with Peter personally.
 
I think they could do a lot with Volture going forward. Keaton killed it in the role. Glad he didn't die.

Man, I want to see more of this universe.
 
50% of the brown kids i went to high school with were just like Flash - right down to dad's expensive car, the dj equipment and 'studious know it all'

I understand the guy's feelings on it, but I agree with this. Even the "Penis Parker" is exactly the kind of shit I would hear our school's pseudo-bullies say. This movie's Flash was more true to the kids I saw in high school than the Flashes in the Raimi and Webb's movies, who are more ripped from Saved by the Bell.
 
Pretty much, "If I knew who he was...", which he does, "he would already be dead". It could be 50/50, he did save Liz's and his own life, but he destroyed his family and sent him to jail, he will probably want to deal with Peter personally.

I personally read this as just a bit of posturing on Adrian's part to deflect any suspicion. Either way, I think the ambiguity of the situation works in the scene's favour. It added a layer of mystery to it, by which I mean a mystery I'm actively engaged in, unlike that other unrelated post-credits tease.

if-sinister-six-would-have-been-released.jpg
 
I mean if you analyze too far you need to question why the plane was not protected when Stark could easily send automated suits to guard it.

There aren't really Earth Super Villains in the MCU now that I think about it**. I mean there's nobody with the power and gall to just straight up attack an Avengers jet. Even the Vulture was just trying to stealth steal not fight with Tony. Stark figures they don't need suit security 'cause nobody would dare.

** because the MCU doesn't have XMen/mutants so it's hard to find a legit way for random super beings to show up creating trouble. Notice it almost all the MCU films the bad guys get their powers from the same place the good guys do? Iron man suits in the wrong hands, super serum in the wrong hands, shrink tech in the wrong hands etc. Keeps things relatively balanced for the final fight but limits the super villain expansion possibilities. Spiderman bucks this trend with Vulture distinct from Spiderman and all the better for it
 
Movie was amazing. Really excited about what this is going to bring to the MCU, and for Spidey fans in general.

My theater audibly gasped at the dad reveal. Haven't seen/heard that kind of reaction to a movie in a long time.

Yeah a lot of people gasped as well at the showing I attended. Genuine shock and dread. Michael Keaton is a scary guy.
 
Martin Starr is low-key one of the best characters in the movie.

"You don't just get to be the 'welcome back' guy--"
"Welcome back, Peter!"

Best deadpan comedian actor working in my mind

I can't imagine losing a student on a school trip... not another one... *unfocused watery-eyed stare into distance*

May have been the single funniest thing in the movie for me, just because it was so dumb and cheesy but played so straight, and Starr really sold it.
 
rewatched Spidey's scenes from CW on the subway this morning

his spidey sense fails him a lot - he is often caught blindsided by Flacon / Bucky

stands to reason he is very much getting the hang of things - even in CW he is working extremely hard against a team who is going easy on him and just barely manages to do well
 
Someone in a recent thread mentioned Terry Crews. And I generally don't obsess over fan castings but I want nothing more now than an angry Terry Crews yelling at Parker.

I still want Ice Cube.

I think that is certainly an interesting angle. It's just jarring to have all that dumped into a single film, when so many previous Marvel TV/film efforts kinda kept things separate. It's not so much a problem that there is any singlular MCU reference in Homecoming, but that there are so many of them packed into a film that is already governed by Tony Stark. It feels like Sony overcompensating for trying to keep a separate Spidey-verse for the last decade.

What movies set in the MCU outside of the only two that take place in a separate galaxy keeps this stuff separate? Come on, man.
 
Can someone explain to me what Vulture was doing at the end of the movie. Was he just stealing Starks toys?

Like that was literally the climax? Peter stopping him from stealing Stark tech?
 
Can someone explain to me what Vulture was doing at the end of the movie. Was he just stealing Starks toys?

Like that was literally the climax? Peter stopping him from stealing Stark tech?

Correct.

Not every superhero film has to culminate in the hero preventing a world ending threat.
 
It seemed like Avengers gear in general, rather than just Stark stuff.

Has the Avengers base seen upstate been given a name yet? After the Triskelion and Avengers Tower, I'd like something a little cooler sounding than "Avengers Facility."
 
Correct.

Not every superhero film has to culminate in the hero preventing a world ending threat.

Didnt say it did. But friggin Tony Stark hangs like a shadow all over this movie. Get out the way man, I came here to see Spider-Man. And gotta be honest, the Stark/Parker relationship did not work for me. Had no emotional resonance at all.
 
It seemed like Avengers gear in general, rather than just Stark stuff.

Has the Avengers base seen upstate been given a name yet? After the Triskelion and Avengers Tower, I'd like something a little cooler sounding than "Avengers Facility."

Yeah, it's Avengers equipment.

Happy personally lists of some of the itinerary as Captain Ameria's "new shield", The Hulkbuster Armour and Thor's "magic belt".
 
Thinking back on it, the Keaton-dad reveal is the first time I've ever been caught off guard by a plot twist in recent movie watching. I turned over to my friend and muttered holy shit when that happened. I honestly did not see it coming at all. The audience was just dead silent too, like you could hear a pin drop in the theater when Keaton opened the door.
 
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