For me it's more of mixed emotions.
"You shouldn't be here but it's so nice to see you"
That was a terrible article
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
"You shouldn't be here but it's so nice to see you"
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's not a good article at all.
Not really.
demosthenes
Member
So you believe that he left her on Jakku to keep her out of harms way and still she found her way to him?
It's Star Wars, everyone is related.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Yeah I'm sure what happened with her family and why she was left alone will be part of the story somehow.
People make a few baseless assumptions about Rey:
1- Memory loss
2- That she was dropped on Jakku
3- That she was once force-sensitive.
But the facts are:
1- No indication of this and is somewhat contradictory to her remembering her family left her
2- No indication she ever lived on another planet. In fact the movie makes it almost certain she never lived anywhere else than Jakku, especially if we recognize there is no indication she had amnesia.
3- No indication she ever was until the events of TFA. Strangely people don't assume Finn was force sensitive until around the same time, TBD if he is, but the movie tells us the force awakened suddenly.
So assuming things are as the movie indicates: she is NOT force sensitive until TFA, NOT amnesic, and was NOT dumped on Jakku, and assuming that Unkar would likely have given something in exchange for the kid considering that's what this character pretty much is (could be debt repayment, or a transaction, whatever), we can guess that:
1- Rey and her family lived on Jakku since Rey was born if not even earlier (there is at least ONE village of what seems to be normal people, where Tekka lived).
2- Her family left on a ship which they probably didn't own (otherwise they could afford bringing Rey aboard)
3- Rey is left behind to Unkar as part of a transaction, the transaction being over securing money to leave the planet but not enough to bring Rey as well, or Rey is left temporarily as a promise to Unkar that full repayment of a debt will be made on their return.
That to me is the most sensible take on Rey if we assume the movie isn't trying to fool us, which I don't think it is.
Rey's vision of herself being left on Jakku is about how the ship her family left in flies into what looks like fire/red-cloud, symbolic that something bad happened to them, and this is followed by Maz telling her her family is never coming back, which ties in to what she saw and why she freaks out.
That's how I've read it. Assuming, there isn't a familial connection between them, what I figure is a new student come to beg for training just dredges up all those old memories of how all his previous students were butchered. The phrase I felt from his expression was something like, "Do I have to go through this again? Can I even go through this again?"
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Did the seven movie marathon at Cinetopia on the Thursday leading into the midnight release.
Seeing it for a second time today.
Within 5 miles of my house, there is:
AMC 28
AMC 14
AMC 20 (?)
Cinetopia 18
B&B 18
B&B 16
Cinemark 20
Cinemark 20+
... and some hole in the wall theater.
Every. Single. Show. between 11am and 9pm are almost completely sold out. I was free all day, and me, my mom, and sister settled on the front row of an IMAX at 5pm.
Seeing it for a second time today.
Within 5 miles of my house, there is:
AMC 28
AMC 14
AMC 20 (?)
Cinetopia 18
B&B 18
B&B 16
Cinemark 20
Cinemark 20+
... and some hole in the wall theater.
Every. Single. Show. between 11am and 9pm are almost completely sold out. I was free all day, and me, my mom, and sister settled on the front row of an IMAX at 5pm.
Luke hid himself and ran away from the galaxy because he doesn't want anyone else close to him to die. He doesn't want to be responsible for the death of anyone else. So yeah, he probably would have mixed feelings when a force user shows up on his shitty rock planet
brandonh83
Banned
Bob if it weren't for you and a few others this place would be a fucking carnival.
the black pearl
Member
I'm thinking more memory alteration, then memory loss. It would work.
I basically agree on the force training thing.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
One answer does not fit all for interpreting emotions.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Man, this is what I get for a legit question. I've only seen the movie once and I can make a mistake. Oh well.
It's not like I only have a problem with Rey. Finn's arc, while more satisfying (just a bit), it also doesn't make sense. The reason why he runs is because his squadmates dies... so he goes to kill more of his squadmates. He really wasn't conflicted about it. Poe is barely there. So it Phasma. But people agree on those things so the discussion barely goes anywhere. The Rey stuff is where the meat of discussion is and controversy. Even now, you're implying that there is some sinister reason why we keep targeting Rey when in reality, we have valid reasons for not thinking she's a great character.
demosthenes
Member
Good stuff. Mirrors some of my own problems with the film.
Nice rebuttals. lol
Bobby Roberts
Banned
How is this even confusing though? He's a trained soldier who witnesses firsthand the totality of the injustice he's intended to deal out across the galaxy, and you're suggesting he should become a 100% pacifist and try not to hurt anyone? Why?
He's someone looking for something to fight for. His sense of right compelled him to escape, to get the hell out of there. Why wouldn't he fight hundreds of thousands of people who dont' BLINK at the order to gun down unarmed peasants for no reason?
Because they're his "friends?"
Here's loose comparison using another fictional defector: Imagine applying this argument to Hugo Stiglitz in Inglorious Basterds. Granted, Finn is way nicer, and way more relatable/indentifiable than Stiglitz, but still - you got a guy who decided the people he came up with are fucking awful, and he bails. Would you think it weird that Hugo then dedicates his life to stopping those people?
If only there weren't three (two spoiler threads and a whole Mary Sue thread) 20,000 post threads full of discussion that thoroughly argue the badly made point restated in that article weeks before it was actually written.
It's not as if the post linking that article did much beyond saying "here's some shit." Dunno why "Nah, that's shitty" is somehow lacking as a response.
That's an awful article, good lord. Right down to stating the leads don't have a personality (wat) or make mistakes (double wat). I swear these people were too busy taking notes during the film to actually watch it.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Where were all these incredible articles when this movie first came out?
Raven117
Member
To me, it felt, "I know who you are, I'm sorry this is happening, but it is beginning."
heliosRAzi
Banned
Lol, no I don't want him to 100% pacifist, but some internal conflict over it would be nice. They are the people he grew up with.
The Librarian
Banned
It's not that hard to understand. It's all she has to live for, really. That hope kept her alive and rooted to Jakku.
psychotron
Member
I'm still going with Rey being a Palpatine. She uses his fighting stance like 6 damn times in the fight with Kylo. The other choices are a bit too on the nose for me.
brandonh83
Banned
Am I the only one that believes it to be super cool that we got a Star Wars ending scene that played out like a silent film, full of ambiguity to the point where we can speculate but won't fully understand until later?
IMO this was JJ at his most developed, experience wise. It still wasn't perfect, but it was close, and he made some very interesting and artistic choices for this film. I think when we look back on it all in the future that we'll appreciate some of these choices more, at least if Rian and Colin really come in and justify them further.
I can say without a doubt that this was the most interesting episode when it comes to shaking up the formula, even despite the complaints of it copying ANH's plot points at times. I guess that's why it didn't feel like ANH to me beyond surface level comparisons.
IMO this was JJ at his most developed, experience wise. It still wasn't perfect, but it was close, and he made some very interesting and artistic choices for this film. I think when we look back on it all in the future that we'll appreciate some of these choices more, at least if Rian and Colin really come in and justify them further.
I can say without a doubt that this was the most interesting episode when it comes to shaking up the formula, even despite the complaints of it copying ANH's plot points at times. I guess that's why it didn't feel like ANH to me beyond surface level comparisons.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And the people he grew up with are fucking monsters.
You saw the internal conflict when he's dry heaving in the box and shitting his pants at the decision to run, and even further when he's made the decision. He's scared as shit. Where aren't you seeing the internal conflict?
Are you suggesting we can't hang with this character because he's not somehow torn up emotionally at the idea he's killing space nazis? He's supposed to have visible, somewhat sustained remorse for the space nazis?
Why?
Because he grew up with them is a shitty answer.
"Family of evil dude from last movie is good"
"Family of good dude from last movie is evil"
Boring
Ether_Snake
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In the novel he does have some internal conflict, such as when shooting at a snow Storm Trooper chasing them on Star Killer.
People are trying to turn problems with the movie into justified story points when they are just problems. The movie isn't perfect, but every little imperfection in a world that tries to sell itself as credible will be scrutinized and distorted into something logical.
Needs more jumping in a spiral with the saber in front of her.
Sith Psycho Crusher.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I think Finn might be force sensitive, mostly the tent scene early on on Jakku where he senses the bombing run and rushes Rey outside.
Either that or he has keen intuition and an acute sense of hearing.
Either that or he has keen intuition and an acute sense of hearing.
You could hear the Tie Fighters in the sky getting closer
Strong moral fiber, born pilot, skilled mechanic, and a soon-to-be-jedi with a mysteriously strong grip on the force. Mary Sue? Sounds more like a Skywalker to me.
In any case, it's a dead horse at this point and the criticism has its own thread. Hand-waving dismissal is warranted.
the black pearl
Member
It's easy to understand, but still seems a bit odd. Which is fine, but makes be curious if there's another variable there.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
He only fight's to defend himself and others
Escaping with Poe, Escaping with Rey and BB8, Defending against the attack on Maz's and rescuing Rey (which I don't think he actually personally killed one Stormtrooper.
He may have grown up with them, but they had no problem killing innocent people. They also had no problem shooting at him, so it was either him or them. It is war after all.
WadiumArcadium
Member
The thrust move? I always assumed it was because she's used to wielding a staff.
I liked the music and landscape of the scene. I'd like it a lot more if it didn't go: close up of Luke, close up of Rey, close up of Luke, close up of Rey, HELICOPTER SHOT, end.
psychotron
Member
Yes, but daughter of main protagonist goes on to be exactly like main protagonist in a groundhog day fashion? I like the Palpatine route more, but ultimately I want her to be someone with no ties to the original families.
Braag
Member
He's an ex stormtrooper, he probably recognized the sound and knew what was coming.
Raven117
Member
Im starting to think this may be a pretty good theory.
Force and alignment has always been about "choice" not birthright. As Kylo, born half Skywalker part Solo (bro force), chose to align with the dark side.
It would mirror that a daughter of the sith would choose to align with the light. Again, driving home choice.
FURTHER, with everyone talking about "Mary Sue" and all that jazz and her seeming perfection (regardless of you come down on that...she is very powerful early on)...where can the story go that is interesting? Perhaps they purposefully built her as "perfect" to then reveal that she is the daughter of a sith...that has some cinematic weight to it.
Or...daughter of Luke Skywalker...trains...becomes better.. Finn makes some jokes...Kylo goes nuts. Dark side loses...the end.
Interfectum
Member
Had it been a dude we wouldn't have near the complaints.
Farmboy Luke Skywalker flew an X-Wing and blew up the Deathstar (with no vision) while out-piloting super star Darth Vader.
I'd go with the latter. I dunno where people are picking up this Finn is force sensitive malarky from.
The novelization goes on quite a bit about her being tempted by the dark side.
Interesting idea.
They may call you the "Captain of the Blockbuster Defense Force," but I find myself agreeing with you 99.9% of the time. At least in the Jurassic World and Star Wars threads. Maybe I am just "Captain of the Defense Force for the Captain of the Blockbuster Defense Force."
FlashbladeGAF
Member
you are correct. She was adapting her staff fighting to the Lightsaber on the fly since thats the way she's fought all her life.
I thought he had something in the beginning with the Village. But second viewing, it could be just a panic attack. But then they've never shown anyone to have a panic attack so it could have been the force and him feeling all the pain from the massacre.
Luke is established as a good pilot by Obi-Wan during their first conversation. And he didn't "out-pilot" Vader, he caught a break because Han got a conscience and made a clean shot on Vader with the Falcon.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't get the helicopter shot complaints.
I really, really don't. The shot structure you described, while it would -work-, is just super typical. I don't think it would have made the scene any better, and again I'm happy to see something different in these movies when it comes to shots/cinematography. And I think something about that shot reflected the... sort of confusing/ambiguous/what's ahead of these characters nature of the closing shot.
Of course you're absolutely entitled to your thoughts.
It just feels out of place in a blockbuster movie like this. It felt more like how a tv show would end with a cliffhanger.
heliosRAzi
Banned
That's the internal conflict for him defecting, not for killing the people he has grown up with for the past whatever years. The beginning of Finn's turn was when one of his mates got shot and died in his muscly arms. Then almost immediately after that, he's killing more of his mates without a second thought. He's stabbing them with a lightsaber. It's a little too quick for my tastes. This is where Phasma could've been a lot more useful.
I guess I wanted something more from a defector.
The best part is Hamill played it in such a way that multiple interpretations can be made.
It also helps that the scene is given a lot of time to play out.. none of this "cut to black as the top spins" stuff.
Luke could be:
- Crazy
- Blind
- Haunted by failure
- Playing up the wise man role
- Reacting to seeing a relative for the first time
- Reacting to seeing his father's saber
- Flashbacking
etc etc
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